Survival

[Ugly Dougly]

Get enough country people together in one place and you have city folk.
Same species, same behavior.

[ygmir]

true enough, it's just a matter of location, circumstance, and, attitude (which usually derive from the first two)

I'm just sayin, make a plan to get out of the city, IMHO.

But, then, I don't understand cities much, never having lived in one, or, even visited for any length of time.

[1durphul]

Huffingtonpost had these on their site today. They're interesting. I could see building 2 or 3 of these on a piece of land somewhere and that way everybody gets their own "space

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/1 ... lide_image

[Ugly Dougly]

"Heading For the Hills" has been the standard plan for survivalists since the sixties, or before that really.
For those without a bomb shelter or a mountain hideaway at any rate.
But Ygmir, you are encouraging strangers to start wandering your woods. Mmm... Ah, I see you plan. Wicked.
But you don't have to live like a refugee. It's a miserable existence.
Even in an apartment, there's a surprising amount of self-sufficiency that can be developed.
Or commandeer the nearby Pac-N-Save. That's not my plan, I am just saying.

And what's the trigger for bugging out? An earthquake? 7.0 or 7.5?
A riot in Berkeley?
Bad weather?
A dip in the stock market?
Farkistan declares war on us?

[C.f.M.]

I'm getting one of these:

[youtube][/youtube]

[unjonharley]

"Heading For the Hills" has been the standard plan for survivalists since the sixties, or before that really.
For those without a bomb shelter or a mountain hideaway at any rate.
But Ygmir, you are encouraging strangers to start wandering your woods. Mmm... Ah, I see you plan. Wicked.
But you don't have to live like a refugee. It's a miserable existence.
Even in an apartment, there's a surprising amount of self-sufficiency that can be developed.
Or commandeer the nearby Pac-N-Save. That's not my plan, I am just saying.

And what's the trigger for bugging out? An earthquake? 7.0 or 7.5?
A riot in Berkeley?
Bad weather?
A dip in the stock market?
Farkistan declares war on us?

I'm not going anywhere.. We live at the end of a dead end street that's off another dead end.. WE are the last zoned farm on 2/3a.. The hill is solid rock four foot below the surface.. There is a green house and seed.. Enough standing fire wood for ten years.. there are cherry, apple, black berry, rase berry, strawberry, plumbs, grapes, bayleaf, onions and garlic.. Most of my dayly food was grown right here.. We have a small water resorce.. If the house falls, We have a guest cottage.. It set on two concret slab.. The contractor put down large gravel under the slabs.. I'm sure the slabs will move on the gravel and the building wont fall.. Next in line is a 20 square foot shop that could be livable.. After that would be the Burning Man shelter in the yard.

The pepole on my block enjoy the veggies I give them in the summer.. It pays to be nice when they are all LDS..

[1durphul]

I'm getting one of these:

[youtube][/youtube]

LoL, the guy under the sheet representing the "unknown threat" is brilliant.

[ygmir]

"Heading For the Hills" has been the standard plan for survivalists since the sixties, or before that really.
For those without a bomb shelter or a mountain hideaway at any rate.
But Ygmir, you are encouraging strangers to start wandering your woods. Mmm... Ah, I see you plan. Wicked.
But you don't have to live like a refugee. It's a miserable existence.
Even in an apartment, there's a surprising amount of self-sufficiency that can be developed.
Or commandeer the nearby Pac-N-Save. That's not my plan, I am just saying.

And what's the trigger for bugging out? An earthquake? 7.0 or 7.5?
A riot in Berkeley?
Bad weather?
A dip in the stock market?
Farkistan declares war on us?

dammit Dougly, you're going to ruin both my hunting and breeding plans........

[can't sit still]

Obviously, there are tons of things that could go wrong. At the moment, L.A. is expecting 20 inches of rain in the next several days. Our yearly average is 15 inches. I imagine that a lot of real estate is slowly moving towards the Pacific.
Most of my preparations are centered around the idea of an oil-delivery interruption.
Right now, the refineries in Pakistan are too broke to buy any more oil. Watch Pakistan to see what happens when the tankers stop rolling to the local gas station.
Port au Prince is a good object lesson of why you don't want to be around a city when there is no food. Lack of food is of course a problem. It's made far worse when people freak out.

We're so divorced from nature, we can't imagine eating anything that doesn't have a wrapper. This is from the Eastern war;
"Some ate rats, cats, dogs, sawdust, wallpaper paste–anything they could try to digest. Roving gangs preyed on lone pedestrians as people resorted to cannibalism. For 900 days, the Germans laid siege to Leningrad. By the time the Red Army finally broke through in January 1944, more than 640,000 residents had died."
They also lost 500,000 troops,,, and it was a victory.

The Katrina mess showed us that; when things really turn to crap, it takes a long time to restore order. Keep your BOB handy

[can't sit still]

This is just too cool,,, for all you third world Burners;

[Sail Man]

true enough, it's just a matter of location, circumstance, and, attitude (which usually derive from the first two)

I'm just sayin, make a plan to get out of the city, IMHO.

But, then, I don't understand cities much, never having lived in one, or, even visited for any length of time.

Originally from a much smaller town up north, I ended up in the big shitty (not a typo ) to work for a company that my Dad did. While I live on the far western fringes of the metropolitan area, in an area that was once horse farm country and is slowly losing that to sprawl. Thankfully slowed by the poor economy If the shtf bugging out or staying at my current BOL represent my 2 options. If time and warning allows I would attempt to bug-out to BOL 2 up north. However, other circumstances may require me to remain at my current BOL, specifically fleeing hordes of city denizens. I have enough preps that I can last for 3 months easy, and those preps are growing every payday. While i have always prepped, I am in a def. ramp-up mode. Food, both short-term and long-term, supplies geared towards self-sufficiency like canners, heating and lighting, and weaponry (my personal fav ) are all being added to an increasing stockpile.

[ygmir]

yeah, it's always the question;
dig in or bug out.

Some preps work for both.

you can get cheap M35 trucks up there, IIRC.
not fast, but, very good in traffic (grin), and, can carry a load of stuff.......

[Sail Man]

While I was initially excited about moving down here to the big shitty, what will all the bright lights and things to do etc, it quickly lost its lustre. The people down here are different, most are rude, self-centered, greedy and not at all friendly towards outsiders, or strangers. The one exception as a group has been the burners that I have met and associate with. But, with few exceptions, if you need help you are on your own. That is not how I was raised. Up north it seems much more common to help out your neighbors and friends, smile, chat with others in passing. Not down here. Hell, hardly any of them seem to know how to play euchre LOL, a staple of up north winter entertainment Rushhour? You can have it. Traffic jams? ditto. Crime? what, here in Detroit?!? I want out of it. When Wedeliver advertised for somebody to run eagles nest I so wanted to take him up on that! I'll be happy if I can start building up north at my Mom's place in 2-3 years.

[ygmir]

yes, well, good luck with the move..........seems a good idea, to me.

I wonder what ever happened to Wedeliver?...............

[unjonharley]

How many of us are going to survive the attack we are under right now??

The food and packaging industry is assulting you in ways you can't imagine..

Just when you think your safe.. Potatoes and appels hold the most of the crap sprayed on them.. Lets all have a drink of 10w30 and laugh our way to the grave..

[ygmir]

"........for, something, will kill us all........"

[unjonharley]

"........for, something, will kill us all........"

Happiely following the Jewdus goat huh?

[Risky]

The trick is to learn how to be a rat in the machine.

On another note, see the movie The Road.
The world is dying, no livestock, no electricity, lots of cannibalism.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Sail Man]

I dont want to be the rat in the machine, I want to be the master of the machine.

Surviving is not enough, living is. I am, slower then I would like to, but moving ahead nonetheless, putting myself and my family in a position in which we can live through "interruptions" in daily life. Now, in my part of the country we are not subject to natural disasters that would give us much harm or long-term grief. Sure, we get the occasional ice storm or blizzard that shuts things down for a few days to a week or so, but no hurricanes, earthquakes etc that would just fubar this region. The worst that has happened here in recent years was a multi-state blackout that last a bit over a week. Short of an apocalyptic shit-storm of epic proportions, we'd do all right.

But, never say never. That is why I prep. You need a few things to be able to survive. Food, water, shelter, warmth.

Food: While I have always kept my kitchen cabinets as stocked as room permits, it is not enough for my goal of 1 year work of food stores. To that end I am planning on long term storage using 5g pails. Another of which I found next to the dumpster behind a local "fast casual rest" Cleaned up it will hold 4-5 1g packages of dried goods heat sealed in mylar bags and treated with O2 absorbers and the pail sealed with a gamma lid. I am shooting for a "production run" of 10 pails at a time filled with everything from beans to rice to flour and sugar. I also had my Mom show me how to water bath can, and come spring I will purchase supplies to do that, as well as pressure bath canning. I say spring because then I will be able to start hitting farm markets for stuff to can. I will do some "sq foot gardening" here at my place but space is limited.

Water: There is alot of water sources not far from my place so my main concern is treating it. I have pump water purifiers, water pure tabs, as well as bleach and povodine that can treat water. Not to mention boiling. Other goals I have for water collection consist of creating a cachement system to collect run-off from the roof. Something else to consider, is the water in your hot water tank that can be used. As well as water in your pipes, easier to get to if your able to add a spigot etc to a low point in the system.

Shelter: Of course is the house. I also have the travel trailer next door as well as 4 tents ranging from 2 person back-packing tents to a Northface 6 person basecamp tent.
And then of course, there is the sailboat.

Warmth: This is the part of the equation that I need to work on more. I currently heat with natural gas. I do not have a wood burning stove as living in a mobile home, and working as a fire-fighter has shown me how fast they can go up. We call them "foofers" Foof! And they are gone. However, done safely, and correctly, it is doable. I have been considering a sm stove. I wont trust myself with the install, I will have it done professionally. Until then, I have 1 propane based radiant heater, and will shortly pick up a Mr Heater unit as well.

Other things to consider are lighting. I just received 2 more lanterns, Dietz's, this gives me 4. I'll grab at least 2 more. Increasing my solar capabilities is also underway. How many know that the local book store is a good prep resource? If the net goes down it's always nice to have a good printed resource to fall back on.

TP, gennies, meds, all items to prep. Just imagine your prepping for a 1 yr burn, and your well on your way to understanding what it is you need to survive.

Well, except for 1 thing, more then a week or 2 of burning man "music" and I'll be bugging out for someplace quiet.

[ygmir]

The trick is to learn how to be a rat in the machine.

On another note, see the movie The Road.
The world is dying, no livestock, no electricity, lots of cannibalism.

[youtube][/youtube]

that was a great book.............is there really a movie?

[Risky]

Sail Man - Consider kerosene for heat.

[can't sit still]

Obama has said that [effectively] the military budget is sacrosanct. So, the budget freeze should affect the city and state governments. Both of these entities are receiving lots of matching funds. They are now starting to dry up quickly. The safety net will soon have some large holes in it. Some cities already have 50% unemployment.
It's possible that we will have some mad leap off a cliff. We also might have a steep slide down a bad incline. Either way, you can count on an increase in crime.

The decision to bug out might be based on a total lack of personal safety. People with families will be much worse off.
Kidnapping has become a MAJOR crime. Everyone who can has bugged out of Latin America. Like the slowly-cooked frog, it will be difficult to know when to bug out.

If the banks are closed or oil imports stop, you'll know to bug out immediately. Most people will try to just hunker down. That will be OK until the stores close. If you leave immediately, you'll have less chance of hitting roadblocks.

If we have episodes of extreme weather, you're better not to get caught out on the open road. You need to bug out if food isn't arriving. There are a lot of scenarios painted where GOV enacts anti-hoarding laws. There are also scenarios where the locals in your chosen shangri-la don't allow outsiders to come in. Those possibilities make it all that much better to have a garden waiting at your destination.

If GOV defaults and the banks are closed, I doubt that anybody will accept credit instruments. They can't verify their validity. They may not be able to post any transactions. So, all interstate trucking will be cash only. If that happens, don't let the screen door hit you in the ass. There just won't be any way to organize things.
Bug out now and avoid the rush

[unjonharley]

Guess I can say I'm out the door.. Just withdrawing onto this property and riding it of dependance of the grid.. Have rethought storage.. Now am storing two weeks in each pail.. 12 pail is 6 months.. With other long term bulk stored and green house gardening to refill the pails.. There is a wood fired summer kitchen set up in the shop for caning and drying..

[epic_elite]

this thread is a zombie contingency plan gold mine.

[Rabbi Dali Rick]

Already bugged, am stocking food....





the rebbi

[epic_elite]

How many of us are going to survive the attack we are under right now??

The food and packaging industry is assulting you in ways you can't imagine..

Just when you think your safe.. Potatoes and appels hold the most of the crap sprayed on them.. Lets all have a drink of 10w30 and laugh our way to the grave..

also, i read n article in gormet magazine that was talking about foods you should buy organic and one's not to worry about.

carrots were on the list for foods to buy organic. it has to do with how they absorb most of the toxins in the soil. apparently its common practice for farmers to plant a carrot crop to soak up toxins from years of buildup of pesticides and the like, harvest, then essentially pile them up and burn them. they use them as a natural cleaning method to purify thier lands.

so carrots. clean them, no matter what.

i wonder if this is also the reason people peel carrots... I personally like the woody taste of the skin.

but yeah, i guess one could speculate that this is synonomous with the rest of the root vegetables.

[unjonharley]

How many of us are going to survive the attack we are under right now??

The food and packaging industry is assulting you in ways you can't imagine..

Just when you think your safe.. Potatoes and appels hold the most of the crap sprayed on them.. Lets all have a drink of 10w30 and laugh our way to the grave..

also, i read n article in gormet magazine that was talking about foods you should buy organic and one's not to worry about.

carrots were on the list for foods to buy organic. it has to do with how they absorb most of the toxins in the soil. apparently its common practice for farmers to plant a carrot crop to soak up toxins from years of buildup of pesticides and the like, harvest, then essentially pile them up and burn them. they use them as a natural cleaning method to purify thier lands.

so carrots. clean them, no matter what.

i wonder if this is also the reason people peel carrots... I personally like the woody taste of the skin.

but yeah, i guess one could speculate that this is synonomous with the rest of the root vegetables.

All of the root veggies are contamanated. Not only the skin but all the way throgh.. Grow your own.. Cut the bottom out of a plastic basket/tub.. Start the potatoe plant.. As it get taller and more soil. When the tub is full, lift it to let the bottom soil fall. Cover any root showing.. Add more to the tub..Plant a row of carrot two foot long in a 2x2 ft. area. Each week plant another row. At harvest time you will harvest one row a week.. Plant root veggies in your flower garden. Carrots, onions, garlic and ginger to name a few.. Potatoes use a space of there own.. Plant mellon, pickel, pumkin and other viny plants next to a wire fence. Or in planter hung on the fence. Grow the vine up the fence to save space.. When planing a garden think up instead of sprall.

[epic_elite]

How many of us are going to survive the attack we are under right now??

The food and packaging industry is assulting you in ways you can't imagine..

Just when you think your safe.. Potatoes and appels hold the most of the crap sprayed on them.. Lets all have a drink of 10w30 and laugh our way to the grave..

also, i read n article in gormet magazine that was talking about foods you should buy organic and one's not to worry about.

carrots were on the list for foods to buy organic. it has to do with how they absorb most of the toxins in the soil. apparently its common practice for farmers to plant a carrot crop to soak up toxins from years of buildup of pesticides and the like, harvest, then essentially pile them up and burn them. they use them as a natural cleaning method to purify thier lands.

so carrots. clean them, no matter what.

i wonder if this is also the reason people peel carrots... I personally like the woody taste of the skin.

but yeah, i guess one could speculate that this is synonomous with the rest of the root vegetables.

All of the root veggies are contamanated. Not only the skin but all the way throgh.. Grow your own.. Cut the bottom out of a plastic basket/tub.. Start the potatoe plant.. As it get taller and more soil. When the tub is full, lift it to let the bottom soil fall. Cover any root showing.. Add more to the tub..Plant a row of carrot two foot long in a 2x2 ft. area. Each week plant another row. At harvest time you will harvest one row a week.. Plant root veggies in your flower garden. Carrots, onions, garlic and ginger to name a few.. Potatoes use a space of there own.. Plant mellon, pickel, pumkin and other viny plants next to a wire fence. Or in planter hung on the fence. Grow the vine up the fence to save space.. When planing a garden think up instead of sprall.

growing up, we had carrots in our garden. far superior to the things of the same name in the grocery store. they taste more like the carrot juice you buy in the store. they are much sweeter, if 'sweeter' is the right word because they aren't sugary sweet. but they have a sweetness to them.

[unjonharley]

growing up, we had carrots in our garden. far superior to the things of the same name in the grocery store. they taste more like the carrot juice you buy in the store. they are much sweeter, if 'sweeter' is the right word because they aren't sugary sweet. but they have a sweetness to them.

You can get the same effect from any item in a store.. It's all grown in oil (Thankyou Simplox). Even the stuff that has been outlawed is still in your food.. It's shiped to other countrys that now grow our food..

[can't sit still]

All of that isn't important. Is there anything bad in BACON ?