neon doesn't really fit does it? how about rows of edge lights like these cabinet pulls? you could drill holes if you really needed side light projection, but down lights would still be cool.
The Contraption 2010
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LeChatNoir
- Posts: 5907
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Thanks rodiponer,
The diesel that I’m looking at is a 4 stroke single cylinder. These same style engines are used a lot in Indonesia, India, and china for walking tractors and stationary power. Apparently they’ll run almost forever when maintained and they seem easy to service. Seems like a good engine to have around the farm that could be morphed into a standby genny system without a lot of trouble.
I like the idea of a firebox effect. I‘ve got to think on this one to see if it could be incorporated somehow. And you’re correct that real flame-lit lamps have a distinct color all their own. I love the warm tones and they can be spotted from across the playa when set in amongst to all the electric light sources there. I’ve thought of just mounting some kerosene lamps on hangers, or even do something like Kinetic Steam Works did with their traction engine, but there’s but there is no real overhead rigging to structure to work with.
Some ideas that have come to mind are spot lighting (from hidden bulbs) various portions of the workings. The flywheel, drive train, etc. The reverse gear should be of particular interest since its sort of a clockwork-looking mechanism that will be in a very conspicuous place. Highlighting these could work well. Perhaps even in a complimentary color to the current blue undercarriage lighting?
I also thought of trying to incorporate some of the Hokey Spoke bicycle lights into the flywheel, but don’t know what the rpm ratings on those things are. I’ve written the company about that question but have gotten to response so far.
And there is always the whispy stream that will be coming off the evaporative cooling tank on those cool playa nights. This could be a nice effect when lit from behind.
And there's the option of hidden Blacklight LEDs as well.
Gyre, I’m thinking this 32 bulb LED herebecause that’s what I ran across that looked the best when unlit (since they’d be the most visible) and it seemed it would put out good light at night. I’ve got to strike a weird balance in this aesthetic. It’s got to look good when viewed during the day and only hint at what it will look like at night
The diesel that I’m looking at is a 4 stroke single cylinder. These same style engines are used a lot in Indonesia, India, and china for walking tractors and stationary power. Apparently they’ll run almost forever when maintained and they seem easy to service. Seems like a good engine to have around the farm that could be morphed into a standby genny system without a lot of trouble.
I like the idea of a firebox effect. I‘ve got to think on this one to see if it could be incorporated somehow. And you’re correct that real flame-lit lamps have a distinct color all their own. I love the warm tones and they can be spotted from across the playa when set in amongst to all the electric light sources there. I’ve thought of just mounting some kerosene lamps on hangers, or even do something like Kinetic Steam Works did with their traction engine, but there’s but there is no real overhead rigging to structure to work with.
Some ideas that have come to mind are spot lighting (from hidden bulbs) various portions of the workings. The flywheel, drive train, etc. The reverse gear should be of particular interest since its sort of a clockwork-looking mechanism that will be in a very conspicuous place. Highlighting these could work well. Perhaps even in a complimentary color to the current blue undercarriage lighting?
I also thought of trying to incorporate some of the Hokey Spoke bicycle lights into the flywheel, but don’t know what the rpm ratings on those things are. I’ve written the company about that question but have gotten to response so far.
And there is always the whispy stream that will be coming off the evaporative cooling tank on those cool playa nights. This could be a nice effect when lit from behind.
And there's the option of hidden Blacklight LEDs as well.
Gyre, I’m thinking this 32 bulb LED herebecause that’s what I ran across that looked the best when unlit (since they’d be the most visible) and it seemed it would put out good light at night. I’ve got to strike a weird balance in this aesthetic. It’s got to look good when viewed during the day and only hint at what it will look like at night
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LeChatNoir
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I never thought of using cabinet pulls as light shrouds. What a great idea! Most of the lighting now is hidden and illuminates the playa. Something like this could work well for areas like the steps to get up n the deck.Elorrum wrote:
neon doesn't really fit does it? how about rows of edge lights like these cabinet pulls? you could drill holes if you really needed side light projection, but down lights would still be cool.
Here's a pic of what it looks like at night currently. This is actually a bit over-exposed, so the lighting looks a fair amount brighter than it really is but it'll get the idea across:
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LeChatNoir
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unjonharley
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- Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
- Location: Salem Or.
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oscillator
- Posts: 578
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Heh! That transmission reminds of the old Vespa gearboxes.
I've used the 100 lumen LEDs with a 12VDC constant current "BuckPuck" and "BuckToot"drivers, works great - no current limiting resistor headaches. But you do need to heatsink them.
There are several lens/optics choices as well. Two 100 lumen Cree MCE with ellipical lenses were more than enough to light up the playa.
There are 430 lumen units available now - tho pricey.
check it out: http://www.ledsupply.com/
\\osc
That seems like a lot of soldering. Have you considered a Cree or Luxeon Star LED? They come in warm white versions.LeChatNoir wrote: Carbide looking lamps with 32 bulb LED lamps is what I'm thinking currently for headlamps.
I've used the 100 lumen LEDs with a 12VDC constant current "BuckPuck" and "BuckToot"drivers, works great - no current limiting resistor headaches. But you do need to heatsink them.
There are several lens/optics choices as well. Two 100 lumen Cree MCE with ellipical lenses were more than enough to light up the playa.
There are 430 lumen units available now - tho pricey.
check it out: http://www.ledsupply.com/
\\osc
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Captain Goddammit
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LEDs are cool, but not very cost-effective, if you're still concerned about budget. That's the sole reason I've got all incandescent and fluorescent on mine. The only practical benefit I can see with LEDs is their low power draw, but electrical supply simply isn't an issue if you are gonna have an engine running. They just plain costa lotta. And they are awful hard to make look vintage.
I liked unjon's idea of simulated sparking of the gears with lighting - what about some strobes that can be had cheap that will provide eye-catching effect without seeming too modern for your Contraption?
I liked unjon's idea of simulated sparking of the gears with lighting - what about some strobes that can be had cheap that will provide eye-catching effect without seeming too modern for your Contraption?
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."
Geeee, thanks! I didn't even remember posting those pix before. And I'm sure it was a team effort. I vaguely remember now -- we somehow got into discussing British "cycle cars". Anyroad, the Interweb is serving a useful purpose here!So Elliot gets the credit for getting this one started!
And I agree that LEDs tend to shine light in just one direction. I've tried three different brands of LED turn signals on my bus, and they are all difficult to see from a bit of an angle. Seems to me, the LEDs need to be mounted in a fan pattern. Or do those glass prism lenses solve the problem? Glass lenses with lots of tiny prisms were standard automotive equipment in the old days, and really worked!
LeChatNoir, please tell us more about that one-lung diesel. I doubt I can afford one, but I cannot seem to find a cheap "thumper" motorcycle gasoline engine either.
The luxeon LEDs have an extremely wide dispersion and are very controllable with the correct lenses.
They are also easier to hide because they can be so small.
The multiple low output LEDs are no competition for a controlled beam.
The output of those 32 LED devices seems to range from 27 to 32 lumens in 15, 35 or 100 degree beams.
I think the better systems will do a better job in a smaller package.
If you find a lens you like, I can see if it could be adapted with a useful light pattern.
You can put optics behind diffused or traditional housings with good effect sometimes.
Another option is quartz.
I can get any of the european industrial worklamps that Hella or Carello make.
The wide close range patterns are very useful floods for some things.
Most LEDs have a tight beam by design and due to the low output.
It is not an essential part of the design though.
The luxeon and some other high efficiency LEDs are a known quantity and have optical systems available (see luxeon and the lens link I posted).
LEDs love the cold and use less power when cool.
Fluorescents must draw more power when cold.
Fluorescents vary, but are more efficient than LEDs once you get past a certain light level.
When you need a small amount of light in many places or a controlled beam, LEDs are more compact and more effective.
LEDs are also very good at many discrete colors.
So it depends on application.
LEDs are useful when you want to shut the engine off and run off battery, but in the right application, this applies to 12 volt fluorecents as well.
HID using metal halide in white or colors is also an option, especially for bounce lighting.
Low pressure sodium is the most efficient of all, when you want a pure amber light.
Vision is black and white in this light and more pleasant than you might think.
Hella makes a number of automotive LED fixtures including flush mount and downlight step lights.
Making your own is not difficult though.
http://led-spot.com/index.shtml
http://www.luxeonstar.com/
http://www.luxeonstar.com/luxeon-rebel-stars-c-157.php
http://www.philipslumileds.com/
They are also easier to hide because they can be so small.
The multiple low output LEDs are no competition for a controlled beam.
The output of those 32 LED devices seems to range from 27 to 32 lumens in 15, 35 or 100 degree beams.
I think the better systems will do a better job in a smaller package.
If you find a lens you like, I can see if it could be adapted with a useful light pattern.
You can put optics behind diffused or traditional housings with good effect sometimes.
Another option is quartz.
I can get any of the european industrial worklamps that Hella or Carello make.
The wide close range patterns are very useful floods for some things.
Most LEDs have a tight beam by design and due to the low output.
It is not an essential part of the design though.
The luxeon and some other high efficiency LEDs are a known quantity and have optical systems available (see luxeon and the lens link I posted).
LEDs love the cold and use less power when cool.
Fluorescents must draw more power when cold.
Fluorescents vary, but are more efficient than LEDs once you get past a certain light level.
When you need a small amount of light in many places or a controlled beam, LEDs are more compact and more effective.
LEDs are also very good at many discrete colors.
So it depends on application.
LEDs are useful when you want to shut the engine off and run off battery, but in the right application, this applies to 12 volt fluorecents as well.
HID using metal halide in white or colors is also an option, especially for bounce lighting.
Low pressure sodium is the most efficient of all, when you want a pure amber light.
Vision is black and white in this light and more pleasant than you might think.
Hella makes a number of automotive LED fixtures including flush mount and downlight step lights.
Making your own is not difficult though.
http://led-spot.com/index.shtml
http://www.luxeonstar.com/
http://www.luxeonstar.com/luxeon-rebel-stars-c-157.php
http://www.philipslumileds.com/
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LeChatNoir
- Posts: 5907
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I've looked at several different approaches, but have not looked into the Cree LEDs. Here's a pic of the one I'm currently thinking of, simply because I can avoid soldering all together and jsut wire it in. These are for the headlamps only, so around $20 each X 2 isn’t so bad to just be done with it.oscillator wrote:Heh! That transmission reminds of the old Vespa gearboxes.
That seems like a lot of soldering. Have you considered a Cree or Luxeon Star LED? They come in warm white versions.LeChatNoir wrote: Carbide looking lamps with 32 bulb LED lamps is what I'm thinking currently for headlamps.
I was incorrect earlier. It's 30 LEDs and I posted the link to the 32 LED unit by mistake. This one is actually the one I have bookmarked. It's recessed and I like the looks of it better incase I can't put a lens over it.
Gotta run at the moment…
ETA: Wow, gyre... you are the lighting guru. Lots to research and think about there.
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What about the small three sylinder engines used for reefers?Elliot wrote:Geeee, thanks! I didn't even remember posting those pix before. And I'm sure it was a team effort. I vaguely remember now -- we somehow got into discussing British "cycle cars". Anyroad, the Interweb is serving a useful purpose here!So Elliot gets the credit for getting this one started!
And I agree that LEDs tend to shine light in just one direction. I've tried three different brands of LED turn signals on my bus, and they are all difficult to see from a bit of an angle. Seems to me, the LEDs need to be mounted in a fan pattern. Or do those glass prism lenses solve the problem? Glass lenses with lots of tiny prisms were standard automotive equipment in the old days, and really worked!
LeChatNoir, please tell us more about that one-lung diesel. I doubt I can afford one, but I cannot seem to find a cheap "thumper" motorcycle gasoline engine either.
Elliot, some lights just suck.
I have seen fixtures so good I can't tell if they are LED or not.
There is a company in east TN selling conversions for hotrods that include lenses designed to work with the LEDs.
They appear to be better than most out there, but I haven't seen them or tested them.
I found them in Street Rod Builder.
My belief is that using the very wide angle LEDs will solve most of these issues.
I plan on doing dual stage conversions using luxeon replacements.
I use 35 watt and 50 watt bayonet lamps now.
If you have metal housings, these work fine.
There are 5, 10 and 20 watt mini bayonet bulbs too.
30 x 5mm LEDs recessed in bulb housing, 35 degree beamLeChatNoir wrote: I've looked at several different approaches, but have not looked into the Cree LEDs. Here's a pic of the one I'm currently thinking of, simply because I can avoid soldering all together and jsut wire it in. These are for the headlamps only, so around $20 each X 2 isn’t so bad to just be done with it.
I was incorrect earlier. It's 30 LEDs and I posted the link to the 32 LED unit by mistake. This one is actually the one I have bookmarked. It's recessed and I like the looks of it better incase I can't put a lens over it.
Gotta run at the moment…
Available in Cool White - 32 lumen @ 9800K
If I'm looking at the right one, not very bright and very narrow beam.
Very high K too.
I like at least 7500 K myself, but you may not.
Any RGB can give you any color shift you like and even be adjustable.
I think you can do better than this device anyway.
For general reference, an older luxeon produces about 25 lumens per watt.
Newer ones do better and there are high output versions.
Luxeon is generally a 1 or 3 watt choice with the older ones.
I haven't studied the new ones closely.
Cree has a 10 watt now which Elektrolumens is using.
http://www.elektrolumens.com/
Help support the LED Museum, the best resource on the web.
Done on a shoestring, the guy is in a wheelchair and has done a better job than anyone else at compiling information in this area.
I just talked to him and he is continuing work on the Museum.
I think I made his day.
Everyone deserves to know they are doing a great job, especially when the the work is essentially non-profit, though I hope he comes out ahead on it.
He has saved many people a lot of money on bad choices.
An immensely useful site.
http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/
http://www.ledmuseum.org/
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/portal/index.php
http://www.uwgb.edu/nevermab/led.ht
Those are great engines. I was once exploring up a jungle river in Borneo and saw someone rebuilding a single cylinder two stroke diesel on a muddy river bank. He was scrubbing the cylinders down with leaves and washing the parts in the silty river water. You can't do that with a modern engine with tight tolerances.
And you should see the dirty diesel they run them on. I bought a hundred gallons of diesel on that river, and the guy carefully ladled it out of rusted 55 gallon drums as if it was soup. He used a ladle so that I wouldn't get the rust or water that was settled on the bottom of the drum, but of course you still get quite a bit.
About the Hokey Spokes, their specifications seem to say that with 24" wheels you need to be going at least 7 mph for three of them to make a continuous image:
RPM = linear speed / circumference
RPM = linear speed / (pi * D)
RPM = 7 mph / (3.14 * 25")
RPM = 7392 inches/minute / 78.5"
RPM = 94
Or are you wondering about a maximum speed, and not what it would take to make a continuous image? They should be able to handle 30 mph on a bicycle without breaking, since people sometimes do that going downhill. On 24" wheels 30mph is:
RPM = 31680 inches/minute / 78.5"
RPM = 404
And you should see the dirty diesel they run them on. I bought a hundred gallons of diesel on that river, and the guy carefully ladled it out of rusted 55 gallon drums as if it was soup. He used a ladle so that I wouldn't get the rust or water that was settled on the bottom of the drum, but of course you still get quite a bit.
About the Hokey Spokes, their specifications seem to say that with 24" wheels you need to be going at least 7 mph for three of them to make a continuous image:
RPM = linear speed / circumference
RPM = linear speed / (pi * D)
RPM = 7 mph / (3.14 * 25")
RPM = 7392 inches/minute / 78.5"
RPM = 94
Or are you wondering about a maximum speed, and not what it would take to make a continuous image? They should be able to handle 30 mph on a bicycle without breaking, since people sometimes do that going downhill. On 24" wheels 30mph is:
RPM = 31680 inches/minute / 78.5"
RPM = 404
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oscillator
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For the Cree MCE, the current draw is 350ma @ the forward drop voltage (3.9 ish), or ~ 110mA @ 12VDC. In my case, the MV uses sealed batteries for lighting, so current draw in important.
A Bucktoot will drive (2) Crees with 12VDC. I think the total cost for (2) 107 lumen Crees, a bucktoot driver, and optics is around US$30 from LED Supply. The new 430 lumen Cree is about $30 each.
The nice thing about the Bucktoot, is that they provide constant current, even as the battery depletes (as long as you stay above the forward drop). With a resistor, the LED will dim as the battery voltage drops.
Just for gins, here are some optics comparisons for the cool white 107 Cree MCE. The LED is mounted inside a 3/4" copper endcap for heatsink with thermal adhesive. That is overkill, they barely get warm, but you do need something.
No Optics @ 3'
Elliptical Lens @ 3'
Comparision
A Bucktoot will drive (2) Crees with 12VDC. I think the total cost for (2) 107 lumen Crees, a bucktoot driver, and optics is around US$30 from LED Supply. The new 430 lumen Cree is about $30 each.
The nice thing about the Bucktoot, is that they provide constant current, even as the battery depletes (as long as you stay above the forward drop). With a resistor, the LED will dim as the battery voltage drops.
Just for gins, here are some optics comparisons for the cool white 107 Cree MCE. The LED is mounted inside a 3/4" copper endcap for heatsink with thermal adhesive. That is overkill, they barely get warm, but you do need something.
No Optics @ 3'
Elliptical Lens @ 3'
Comparision
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LeChatNoir
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- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:52 am
- Location: Louisville, Ky
Oscillator, that comparison is really informative. Beyond taking a preassembled LED lamp and mounting it, it’s really sort of alien to me. I have a basic understanding of optics and such, but its just one of those things that I never really focused on. Heh Heh When it comes to metal, I’ll tackle most anything, but things like resisters and circuits baffle me for some reason. Wiring and electrical work I understand well, though, so I searched out the lamp I listed because it was sort of plug -n-play.
I have to pick my battles, so I’ve tried to keep the lighting as simple as possible, installation wise I mean.
Here’s an example for you and gyre:
Those assembled lamps, I can wrap my head around using them since I can form a concave carbide lamp-style mount for it, starting with raw sheet copper or aluminum, using both hand forming and machining of the metal, incorporate the appropriate base for the lamp… mount it up, wire it in and turn it on. No problem.
Now show me an LED like one of those Cree bulbs mounted to it’s little circuit board-heat sink and I’d likely stare at it and wonder what I’m supposed to do next. I cannot explain why this seems to be the case. Perhaps if I had one in my hand, I could better wrap my head around how to incorporate it into a Contraption headlight. And how does one mount such an LED behind a lens?
Now I have to say that I may or may not find the time to dive this deep into the lighting aspect of the project, but I think I'd like to learn. Could you explain how I could make use of one of these LEDs? How did you mount them?
I have to pick my battles, so I’ve tried to keep the lighting as simple as possible, installation wise I mean.
Here’s an example for you and gyre:
Those assembled lamps, I can wrap my head around using them since I can form a concave carbide lamp-style mount for it, starting with raw sheet copper or aluminum, using both hand forming and machining of the metal, incorporate the appropriate base for the lamp… mount it up, wire it in and turn it on. No problem.
Now show me an LED like one of those Cree bulbs mounted to it’s little circuit board-heat sink and I’d likely stare at it and wonder what I’m supposed to do next. I cannot explain why this seems to be the case. Perhaps if I had one in my hand, I could better wrap my head around how to incorporate it into a Contraption headlight. And how does one mount such an LED behind a lens?
Now I have to say that I may or may not find the time to dive this deep into the lighting aspect of the project, but I think I'd like to learn. Could you explain how I could make use of one of these LEDs? How did you mount them?
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theCryptofishist
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Luxeon packages optics for their LEDs, possibly from the supplier I posted.
I am not sure of the mechanicals, but I can find out.
It is not complicated though.
I think the bucks snap together or glue together.
In the past the bucks were the easiest approach and have a minor power regulation to them.
You can also buy the separate LED, which is smaller.
The Elektrolumens were started by using the luxeon base parts to custom build from.
He was mounting them to a heat sink.
Decide how much light you want and what light pattern is best and go from there.
They even sell them mounted with the reflector on a circuit board.
And luxeon lists heat sink tape that is an electrical insulator.
http://led-spot.com/index.shtml
http://www.luxeonstar.com/
I am not sure of the mechanicals, but I can find out.
It is not complicated though.
I think the bucks snap together or glue together.
In the past the bucks were the easiest approach and have a minor power regulation to them.
You can also buy the separate LED, which is smaller.
The Elektrolumens were started by using the luxeon base parts to custom build from.
He was mounting them to a heat sink.
Decide how much light you want and what light pattern is best and go from there.
They even sell them mounted with the reflector on a circuit board.
And luxeon lists heat sink tape that is an electrical insulator.
http://led-spot.com/index.shtml
http://www.luxeonstar.com/
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Captain Goddammit
- Posts: 8589
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
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- Camp Name: First Camp
- Location: Seattle, WA
It all depends on the use.
The cheap LEDs are getting really, really cheap now.
If you want pure colors, little comes close to LEDs.
I even bought a string of diffused LEDs with globes on them (360 degree dispersion) retail for $11, to use for low level lighting.
They use about 7 watts and spread a small amount of light very well.
And there are cheaper strings.
But an under vehicle bounce light would be better in something else- if you can get the color you want.
I would only use LEDs under a vehicle for a special reason, such as color or switching, or compactness.
White light filtered for color, is stunningly inefficient.
The low pressure sodium is unique among HID bulbs in rendering a pure amber spike.
I think neon is the only competition here.
Only one color though.
180 watts produces 32,000 lumens, almost as much as a 1500 watt quartz lamp.
18,000 hours life span.
LEDs have great advantages if being switched on and off, over virtually everything else.
Neon is probably the only competition.
LED lifespan can range to 100,000 hours and they tend to be shockproof.
The cheap LEDs are getting really, really cheap now.
If you want pure colors, little comes close to LEDs.
I even bought a string of diffused LEDs with globes on them (360 degree dispersion) retail for $11, to use for low level lighting.
They use about 7 watts and spread a small amount of light very well.
And there are cheaper strings.
But an under vehicle bounce light would be better in something else- if you can get the color you want.
I would only use LEDs under a vehicle for a special reason, such as color or switching, or compactness.
White light filtered for color, is stunningly inefficient.
The low pressure sodium is unique among HID bulbs in rendering a pure amber spike.
I think neon is the only competition here.
Only one color though.
180 watts produces 32,000 lumens, almost as much as a 1500 watt quartz lamp.
18,000 hours life span.
LEDs have great advantages if being switched on and off, over virtually everything else.
Neon is probably the only competition.
LED lifespan can range to 100,000 hours and they tend to be shockproof.
If you give me a more specific example, I can try to break it down by initial cost and cost per hour.Captain Goddammit wrote:But no one is talking about cost! If all you want is a pair of headlamps, no big deal. If you want to do total make-DMV-happy vehicle illumination, lumens per dollar isn't an LED strong point.
Bear in mind that power isn't free even on a vehicle.
I still prefer quartz for low beams and fog lamps myself.
HID should work fine for the average driving light and especially for reversing lamps, where I prefer a huge amount of light.
I have been using the hella twin bulb worklights for this, 140 watts.
I don't think HID will ever compete with the shrouded filament Marchal driving lamps I use though.
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LeChatNoir
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You’re right. It’s a topic that was falling behind.Captain Goddammit wrote:But no one is talking about cost! If all you want is a pair of headlamps, no big deal. If you want to do total make-DMV-happy vehicle illumination, lumens per dollar isn't an LED strong point.
I agree that they are primarily more costly up front so I should explain why I'm so fond of them for this particular application.
Burning Man, to me, is a lot about juxtaposition and seemingly hypocritical situations and I very much like that aspect of it. During the day The Contraption looks like something that could have been dragged out of a Nevada Ghost town. Now… the fact that the entire construction process of it is documented here on eplaya shows that I’m not purporting that it actually is old, and yet there is great effort put into using old rusty junk and hiding anything new (what little there is) as well as possible. People would often think it was some sort of surviving antique.
LEDs help with this duality in a couple of ways. First, they're compact and easy to hide, so this helps maintain the daytime appearance of “no new technology here“. The second is that LED lighting screams Burning Man to me. My first year I walked way out into deep playa and turned around. What I saw was this pulsing mass of electronic light floating in a sea of a desert darkness. That particular technological aspect of the event was, from that point, forever imprinted on my Luddite brain.
It’s very pleasing to me, an LED light illuminating a 80 year old wheel.
The last reason I prefer LEDs is that they use very little energy. Our camp lighting is LED running off a battery/solar panel. We’d love to have more light in the dome, and I now have two 115 Ah deep cycle 12 volt batteries. With the larger engine, one can be on the MV providing power for the lighting while being charged by the alternator at a rate greater than the rate of use. Come back to camp after a night out, switch out the batteries and go again. I know this could be easily solved by getting a small EU generator, but it’s become a sort of game to me to use as little energy as possible at an event that takes so much energy to get to. Again, those things in opposition. I could go on about how this has become a theme in my life, but it’s far too early in the thread for all that!
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LeChatNoir
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- Location: Louisville, Ky
I had thought about using lighting like this, but I worry that a glass bulb could become a Moop nightmare with one bump.
ETA: As gyre noted above, the LED's characteristic of being shockproof is another plus for a vehicle that sort of shakes and rattles its way across the playa.
ETA: As gyre noted above, the LED's characteristic of being shockproof is another plus for a vehicle that sort of shakes and rattles its way across the playa.
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unjonharley
- Posts: 10434
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
- Burning Since: 2001
- Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
- Location: Salem Or.
Looking for head light lenese.. The best I can find so far are real vintage glass.. They are 45$ per at the lowwest price.. Anyone know where there are reproductions in plastic? That carbite lite turned me on..
Thinking of a stainless steel pan with a LED. Backed by a brass/copper can to cover the back of the light.. Maybe cover the LEDs with a yellow.. Mirror the inside 1/2 inch of the lenes back into the pan.
Then hang the thing on a garden type hook ( for bird feeders or plants).. Then run a flat bar from the hook post to the bottom of the lamp.. Keep it from swinging..
Thinking of a stainless steel pan with a LED. Backed by a brass/copper can to cover the back of the light.. Maybe cover the LEDs with a yellow.. Mirror the inside 1/2 inch of the lenes back into the pan.
Then hang the thing on a garden type hook ( for bird feeders or plants).. Then run a flat bar from the hook post to the bottom of the lamp.. Keep it from swinging..
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oscillator
- Posts: 578
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Here is the approach I used...LeChatNoir wrote: Now show me an LED like one of those Cree bulbs mounted to it’s little circuit board-heat sink and I’d likely stare at it and wonder what I’m supposed to do next.
The optics are pretty straightforward - the lens snaps into the holder. You glue the holder to the Led Star.
I used thermal epoxy to attach the LED (has a built-in heat sink on the bottom of its PCB) to a 3/4" copper endcap.
Drilled a hole for a simple attachment point. You can see the elliptical properties of the lens pattern.
You want to make sure this all lines up in the proper orientation when things are completely assembled.
Complete assemby (minus optics) showing bucktoot driver. I used a 9v battery connector to connect to 12VDC power.
I have some unassembled 320 lumen warm white LEDS, but don't yet know how these compare to the cool whites.
One idea: glue a piece of theatrical gel over the entire assembly to colorize the light to a more antique vibe.
HTHs,
\\osc
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oscillator
- Posts: 578
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Captain Goddammit
- Posts: 8589
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
- Burning Since: 2000
- Camp Name: First Camp
- Location: Seattle, WA
If it's cost-be-damned, I-want-LEDs, I can understand that. My truck has tons of them, for no better reason than I think they're cool. And they are!
It's still worth considering fluorescents for your "underglow" since they're out of sight and won't affect the aesthetic. You need a lot of light output for that function. I've had zero breakage issues, but I have those clear plastic bulb-protector sleeves on them to make them moop-proof in case, and to hold the colored cellophane onto them. Efficiency-wise, you probably can't beat them for light-output per watt or per dollar.
It's still worth considering fluorescents for your "underglow" since they're out of sight and won't affect the aesthetic. You need a lot of light output for that function. I've had zero breakage issues, but I have those clear plastic bulb-protector sleeves on them to make them moop-proof in case, and to hold the colored cellophane onto them. Efficiency-wise, you probably can't beat them for light-output per watt or per dollar.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."
II know a company that will custom coat any bulb with the clear silicone safety coating, if you can find the bulb you want.
For lenses, Unjon, try the street rod and antique restoration market.
I doubt you'll find anything cheaper though.
I know someone that can custom bend glass with fairly good optical quality.
I wanted glass tail lights.
Don't forget that fluorescents vary a great deal in efficiency.
They are probably the best choice for bounce lighting in white, if you have the space.
Metal halide can be more intense in smaller spaces and has the option of some colors by changing bulbs.
Almost all of these are available with safety coating.
Then for color, there is real neon, metal halide, low pressure sodium for amber only, elwire, LED and filtered white lamps.
The green from metal halide is quite impressive.
You often see these used to light buildings, though LEDs are now being adopted.
One thing to consider is perceived luminosity due to LEDs generally pure color.
This is why colored LEDs often seem so intensely bright.
Experimentation is probably the most effective way to consider the impact of this versus cost.
The higher output LEDs are easy to find specs in lumens though.
Reference-
One lumen is equal to the amount of light emitted by one candle that falls on one square foot of surface located one foot away from one candle.
A uniform source of one candlepower placed in a sphere emits 12.57 lumens or mean spherical candela (MSCP) equals 12.57 lumens; meaning that 1 candle has a total output of light (light output in all directions) equalling 12.57 lumens.
The catch is that candlepower ratings are mostly given with directional lamps or devices, so no comparison is possible without much more complex math and more information.
This conversion only applies to 360 degree dispersion.
Note about lumens ratings-
The measurements used give more weight to yellow.
This is inaccurate.
Metal halide is as or more efficient than high pressure sodium when compared watt for watt, when effective illumination is considered.
The eye works better with full spectrum lighting.
Pure colors are perceived as black and white, monochromatic.
This is a different effect from mixed colors.
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LeChatNoir
- Posts: 5907
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:52 am
- Location: Louisville, Ky
Thanks for that very clear tutorial, oscillator. That removes some of the mystery for me. This seems like it might even be an easier approach than the other bulbs I’d mentioned before. Funny thing about my brain… it’s helpful for me to learn when things are applied. I did not grasp geometry in high school, but in trade school, not only did I get geometry, but trig as well. It made way more sense when I needed to machine something in a block of steel.
Do you think the thermal epoxy will hold up to vibrations? Those things can shake like they’re on a Harley Davidson.
Do you think the thermal epoxy will hold up to vibrations? Those things can shake like they’re on a Harley Davidson.
The New and Improved Black Cat... now with 25% more blather
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oscillator
- Posts: 578
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