Art cars and safety and lessons...

[PJ]

Speaking of safety:

Michael Eisner, chairman and CEO of The Disney Company expresses his condolences to the family of the man who was killed, and the families of the persons injured in a ride accident in Disneyland Friday, Sept. 5,. 5, 2003, during a news conference at Disneyland in Anaheim, Calif. A locomotive broke loose from a train on Disneyland's Big Thunder Mountain Railroad roller coaster Friday, killing a man and injuring 10 other riders. (AP Photo/Damian Dovarganes)



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... d_accident

[Tristan]

[Xavier]

Mickey Man? I'm think I'm gonna be sick.. rather ironic tho..

And yes Atom.. yer a crazy sicko. But I like you that way. Hope you had otherwise beautiful burn.

Maybe it was just me, but I noticed several near accidents on the playa this year, and was on the scene at two of the art car accidents. (not dave train tho, sad to hear it's getting retired)

Next year I will be more conscious and aware of the dangers.. This year I kept everyone in camp lighted at night even when they weren't into it because I almost got plowed last year. And I told numerous motor scooters to slow the hell down.

[clamshell]

Not to make it a police state; but, I think upon registering a vehicle it should be strongly expressed that the car and it's behavior will be the complete responsibility of the owners.

The first item listed on the copy of the DMV Regs we gave to every person who came in was "We are licensing the VEHICLE, not the driver." We made it as clear as possible that it didn't matter who was driving; if the vehicle was seen operating unsafely, action would be taken. Unfortunately, the Rangers can't be everywhere to see things, and some people fell through the cracks.

So how many art cars WERE cited for dangerous driving on the playa this year? And how many of them removed?

[tbone]

So how many art cars WERE cited for dangerous driving on the playa this year? And how many of them removed?

It's just one experience, so is a statistics way it doesn't mean anything. But...

A friend of mine has a large art car (built on a mid 70's pickup frame). He was pulled over for speeding (he was out by the trash fence, and claimed to be doing 35 or so) and blew a .13x - obviously more than drunk in any state.

They made him and his load of passengers walk home, and the BLM/Sherrif removed the rotor from the distributor. He wasn't given a DUI, but he couldn't drive till he was ready to load it on a trailer and they returned the rotor.

Had it been a Chevy V-8, he could have been back in action in the morning, but sadly (for him) there aren't many Dodge slant-6 guys on the playa.

[PJ]

...there aren't many Dodge slant-6 guys on the playa.

There should be. That's a great engine, well-suited for nasty conditions. John Deere (!) used them in hay making equipment for decades.

[tbone]

...there aren't many Dodge slant-6 guys on the playa.

There should be. That's a great engine, well-suited for nasty conditions. John Deere (!) used them in hay making equipment for decades.

True.
But if you're planning on getting replacement ignition parts on the playa, I'd recommend a small block Chevy.

I drive a Dodge PU with a diesel - it'd be funny to watch them try and remove the non-existant distributor, plug wires, etc...

[Last Real Burner]

[ness]

mmmmmmmmmm :o

[dragonfly Jafe]

So how many art cars WERE cited for dangerous driving on the playa this year? And how many of them removed?

They made him and his load of passengers walk home, and the BLM/Sherrif removed the rotor from the distributor. He wasn't given a DUI, but he couldn't drive till he was ready to load it on a trailer and they returned the rotor.

Had it been a Chevy V-8, he could have been back in action in the morning, but sadly (for him) there aren't many Dodge slant-6 guys on the playa.

So a clear violator of Nevada State laws (not to mention DMV rules) is nabbed by the police and let go with (essentially) a warning. And your biggest concern is that he wasn't able to get going again the next day? And how proper vehcile choice will better enable one to evade police sanctions?

It is often said that police/rangers cannot be everywhere, but when they are there, could they at least do what they say they will when they catch someone endangering the public to an excessive degree?

This guy should have been ejected and jailed, not slaped on the wrist. And no one should be bragging about this - this is why vehicles will ultimately be banned entirely.

regards, Jafe

[stuart]

wow, and folks in my village got a stiff fine and their tents thrashed for lighting up a J.

[dragonfly Jafe]

wow, and folks in my village got a stiff fine and their tents thrashed for lighting up a J.

This is exactly what I am talking about. The LEO spend alot of time chasing after people who light up a J, while ignoring BLATANT threats to public safety (easier to spot also). Argueably, the DMV/BLM/LEO contributed to last years chaos by not stopping the more egregious violators. This in turn is leading to more restrictions on mutant vehicles. Why don't they enforce the rules they already have, instead of making new ones that they are not going to enforce? regards, Jafe

[dirtytuba]

So how many art cars WERE cited for dangerous driving on the playa this year? And how many of them removed?

This is actually a really good question that hasn't been aswered yet.

It would also be interestiing to find out how many warnings/tickets were handed out for going faster than the 5 mph speed limit.

[Badger]

In asking the question remember to make the distiction between Rangers (BLM) and Rangers (BRC).

This is actually a really good question that hasn't been aswered yet.

Maybe because you haven't bothered to ask?

I'm sure the citations are all a matter of public record ask and you'll receive - especially in matters of government statistics and records.

[dragonfly Jafe]

Anyone here ever had a run-in with an enforcment agent? I've never been pulled over or warned. I only have 2nd hand knowldege of 3 persons over the years that got caught violating the no-registration rule, they all got off with warnings and direction to the DMV (one violator got caught while riding by DMV itself!). Anybody ever got a ticket? For anything while driving a vehicle? Anybody? regards, Jafe

[shitmouse]

i'm tellin you: enchanted rebar forest

that paints a beautiful picture.


-b

[symbolsimon]

Hello,
We just arrived home yesterday. We sent this letter to Jack Rabbit Speaks as well. We are posting this because we feel strongly that everyone should be aware of another accident that happened on Saturday night (in front of the Mutaytor show) just a few minutes after
the man burned. The reason that we feel that we need to let more people know what happened is because we feel it is pretty clear that a few well meaning people with art cars need to be more diligent in the structural integrity of their art cars and better know the limits of what kind of weight they can take.

On Saturday after the man burned, and the music really got going, all the people that climbed up onto this tall two story fur covered art car for a better view became a jumping mass of excitement. We were all having a great time and there was obviously a lot of energy and the playa was packed tight full of people. Along with the energy and excitement also came a lot of trust in this art car that was already WAY over capacity and getting more bouncy by the second. We know this because we parked our two seater metal art bike (UFO santa sleigh) right next to it, and we videotaped all 20 of them piled in so tightly right next to us. One girl was playing the flute up there, and one guy was playing drums on our art bike with a couple of 5 foot long balloons, but most were dancing and having a great time. All at once the whole upper deck toppled over towards us and onto our bike...which thankfully caught them midway down and broke their fast plunge towards the hard playa and
people underneath them. Every wonderful burner around quickly jumped in to rescue all the people tangled inside the broken bike and the art car, and it was a very scary scene. I just kept thanking the gods that we decided to park our big 250 pound metal art bike so close to them, which may have saved the lives of those falling towards the ground, but also more importantly...those that would have been standing beside it...had our bike and the space between us not taken up about 42 square feet in the direction of the accident. The art car owners were obviously very upset, and also hurt themselves, and they were very very apologetic, and my heart goes out to them too. The fact that their art car's upper deck had open access, and got overloaded, was probably not completely their fault....and they also put a lot of work into it. It was all so fast and scary.

I can't help but want to implore the artists that design
art cars to very carefully consider any and all possible circumstances
before they put it out there on the playa for people to dance and celebrate on. After hearing today on our way home, of the death of Katherine Lampman from an art car on the playa, it made it clear to us that we had to speak out here to all the people that didn't witness this accident and what happened. Even though know one else died from the art car collapse I saw, ONLY because of the right set of circumstances, it was still WAY too close for comfort...and it would haunt us if we didn't try to get this out to every burner, so another similar accident might possibly be avoided in the future. We all can learn from this mistake...and celebrate safe and happy in the future!!

So we ask you gorgeous people....
Please be EXTRA diligent on the structural integrity of your art cars!

and...

Please be extra careful when riding on them!

Scary things can happen even in the most wonderful places, and with all the best of intentions.

Thanx for all the love last week...
Peace.

Doc and La La

Wow. I just read this for the first time. Excellent! Right after I got back last year, I wrote a little something about people giving up a little of their creative feedom for the group. I think lots of people had their eyes opened to the idea that along with the gift of creativity comes the responsibility to create for the good of all and the harm of none.
Peace,
Jim

[symbolsimon]

Hello,
We just arrived home yesterday. We sent this letter to Jack Rabbit Speaks as well. We are posting this because we feel strongly that everyone should be aware of another accident that happened on Saturday night (in front of the Mutaytor show) just a few minutes after
the man burned. The reason that we feel that we need to let more people know what happened is because we feel it is pretty clear that a few well meaning people with art cars need to be more diligent in the structural integrity of their art cars and better know the limits of what kind of weight they can take.

On Saturday after the man burned, and the music really got going, all the people that climbed up onto this tall two story fur covered art car for a better view became a jumping mass of excitement. We were all having a great time and there was obviously a lot of energy and the playa was packed tight full of people. Along with the energy and excitement also came a lot of trust in this art car that was already WAY over capacity and getting more bouncy by the second. We know this because we parked our two seater metal art bike (UFO santa sleigh) right next to it, and we videotaped all 20 of them piled in so tightly right next to us. One girl was playing the flute up there, and one guy was playing drums on our art bike with a couple of 5 foot long balloons, but most were dancing and having a great time. All at once the whole upper deck toppled over towards us and onto our bike...which thankfully caught them midway down and broke their fast plunge towards the hard playa and
people underneath them. Every wonderful burner around quickly jumped in to rescue all the people tangled inside the broken bike and the art car, and it was a very scary scene. I just kept thanking the gods that we decided to park our big 250 pound metal art bike so close to them, which may have saved the lives of those falling towards the ground, but also more importantly...those that would have been standing beside it...had our bike and the space between us not taken up about 42 square feet in the direction of the accident. The art car owners were obviously very upset, and also hurt themselves, and they were very very apologetic, and my heart goes out to them too. The fact that their art car's upper deck had open access, and got overloaded, was probably not completely their fault....and they also put a lot of work into it. It was all so fast and scary.

I can't help but want to implore the artists that design
art cars to very carefully consider any and all possible circumstances
before they put it out there on the playa for people to dance and celebrate on. After hearing today on our way home, of the death of Katherine Lampman from an art car on the playa, it made it clear to us that we had to speak out here to all the people that didn't witness this accident and what happened. Even though know one else died from the art car collapse I saw, ONLY because of the right set of circumstances, it was still WAY too close for comfort...and it would haunt us if we didn't try to get this out to every burner, so another similar accident might possibly be avoided in the future. We all can learn from this mistake...and celebrate safe and happy in the future!!

So we ask you gorgeous people....
Please be EXTRA diligent on the structural integrity of your art cars!

and...

Please be extra careful when riding on them!

Scary things can happen even in the most wonderful places, and with all the best of intentions.

Thanx for all the love last week...
Peace.

Doc and La La

Wow. I just read this for the first time. Excellent! Right after I got back last year, I wrote a little something about people giving up a little of their creative feedom for the group. I think lots of people had their eyes opened to the idea that along with the gift of creativity comes the responsibility to create for the good of all and the harm of none.
Peace,
Jim

[tattoedfaerie]

I don't care what it says on the back of the ticket, Burning Man is one lawsuit away from ending! [quote]

Has anyone heard that the family of the girl who died in 2003(Katharine Lampman) is suing BM along with the owner, driver, etc of the art car that ran her over?

hmmmmm, just wondering, I am sure this is a "hush hush", but a freind works for the Santa Clara County clerk's office ans supposedly saw the papers.

What will happan to BM now?[/quote]

[dragonflyannie]

tattooedfaerie...
I heard this from an inside source as well. I believe it to be true.
I don't think the family can win though. I'm pretty sure they take many precautions to make sure they are not liable for this sort of thing. I feel for the family, I really do, but each of us takes this risk when we attend and we know what we are getting in to. It is not the fault of the org... in my opinion.
I'll be interested to know what the outcome is. If I hear anything else, I will post.
DFA

[unjonharley]

tattooedfaerie...
I heard this from an inside source as well. I believe it to be true.
I don't think the family can win though. I'm pretty sure they take many precautions to make sure they are not liable for this sort of thing. I feel for the family, I really do, but each of us takes this risk when we attend and we know what we are getting in to. It is not the fault of the org... in my opinion.
I'll be interested to know what the outcome is. If I hear anything else, I will post.
DFA

`
Waiting for the out come sounds like the best thing to do.

Any resonable person/burner felt the lose upon hearing of it.

Any resonable person that climbs over a barbed wire fence knows: It is possible to be cut on the wire. You would not sue the farmer for damage to yourself. (no hard feeling intended) Any resonable person knows if they get drunk being cut on the wire is more of a pssibilty.

[Isotopia]

Any resonable person that climbs over a barbed wire fence knows: It is possible to be cut on the wire. You would not sue the farmer for damage to yourself. (no hard feeling intended) Any resonable person knows if they get drunk being cut on the wire is more of a pssibilty.

And this is analogous to what?

[Kinetic IV]

I don't want to come across as an insensitive prick about this because what happened to Kathy was a tragedy. But looking at the question asked: Kathy was expected to read the survival guide. And when she bought a ticket she was expected to read the thing....it was a legal contract (I may be wrong on this one). So...she should have known going in that things could happen. If you climb the barbed wire you could get hurt. You voluntarily assume the risk of serious injury or death by attending. Same concept. You could get hurt if you do this. Then if you go in and get drunk, you increase your chances of getting hurt. You are still responsible for your actions. Your agreement that's on the ticket is still in force. So...you bought the ticket, agreed to the conditions, go in and get plastered and then fall and get hurt or worse and then your family wants to sue over it? I don't think so. If this case goes forward and the family wins the event and many others are legally screwed. I don't see that happening. (This is on the fringe of what I know about legal issues, if my concepts are wrong feel free to enlighten me on it)

[Isotopia]

Twice in this thread the assumption has been made (or suggested) that alcohol was involved in an accident.

I don't think that's just anyone's call here to make.

Assumptions often serve only to fuel fires.

Speak not of that which you know not of.

[Kinetic IV]

Thanks for the clarification...I heard that alcohol was involved from multiple "sources"...but a Ranger's word in this case would trump those "sources". I hope a couple of people are paying attention......

I was leery of writing that post, I put in a couple of disclaimers as it was...I should have trusted my instincts and stayed quiet. That being said the statements on read the damn ticket still stands. And that warning is one part of what makes BM so special. Anyway I'm sorry about her passing but dare I say it, I hope the legal case falls short.

[tattoedfaerie]

Waht is it with the alcohal thing? Or the ticket? What if that art car was not even supposed to be on the Playa, or having a trailer behind it?
The analogy of the barbed wire is senseless, so you get drunk, climb a barbed wire fence, die, and expect the owner who put it there illegally to be off scot free??

hmmm......

[Kinetic IV]

Waht is it with the alcohal thing? Or the ticket? What if that art car was not even supposed to be on the Playa, or having a trailer behind it?
The analogy of the barbed wire is senseless, so you get drunk, climb a barbed wire fence, die, and expect the owner who put it there illegally to be off scot free??

hmmm......

As Miss Isotopia stated alcohol was not a factor. So the alcohol comments were based on misinformation. As for the ticket if you have a Burning Man ticket from years past read the fine print on the back of it. It basically says you voluntarily assume the risk of serious injury or death by attending. That's why people keep saying read the ticket all the time. And if an art car is on the playa inside the boundaries of BRC there's a small chance it's operating illegally but usually those vehicles are caught fast and impounded. The ones that are out there are DMV approved and have permission to be there. You asked several questions, I hope this kinda fills in a few information gaps.

[tattoedfaerie]

Yes, I read the back of my ticket, and my survival guide. I am not sure about legal issues so I can't comment, except I would think that BM has insurance for these kind of things. I am sure her family is upset, and we all know how rumors go.
At least Kathy was at BM and will remain there, her spirit will continue to be infront of the Temple of Honor.


I still feel that I have seen many art cars driving above the apeed limit and that Bar Car with the trailer behind it did not even have enough people to walk beside it for safety reasons.....not to say the girl would not have died....having an art car on the playa is a huge resposibility not only to yourself but to other burners. BM's "do-ocracy" is in order here, if you see something that needs to be done, do it. Which means tell the drunken drug upped jerk to get off the car....tell the driver to slow down....tell the camp that the art car is unstable of unsafe....

shit, tell BM about these cars.....you never know, you could be the next one to twist your ankle, fall, and get run over and die.
TF

[joel the ornery]

read your fucking ticket.

or go to fucking Disneyland.

[helitack]

You have to have tickets to go to Burning Man?