accessible Burning Man?

[MaryLou]

Hello all. Although I've been to Burning Man twice (2007, 2008) my darlin' man, Ronness, has never been. He used to dream about the burn but had to work. Now he's retired (and unfortunately disabled) and we're gonna give it a try. We'll be bringing the Ronmobile (a shuttlevan with wheelchair lift converted to motorhome), a caregiver for an extra pair of hands, and a Toyota Prius to cruise the art. Hoping to get a costume built to make the Prius look like a fish.

[Sham]

Welcome to eplaya. I'm not sure how severe your man's disability is, but if you're bringing a caretaker with you, maybe the playa could be a bit extreme. Does the caretaker know what they are up against? After all, they may both get standed in a 12 hour dust storm and be stuck out in the deep playa.

A golf cart or motorized scooter might be more in line for getting around and seeing the art as opposed to a Prius. There are hundreds of HP permits issued, but imagine if each one had a car to drive around to see the art. It would be like window shopping in a mall with a Buick! (although some old people have tried it! ) Since you've been twice before, you know what I mean about a car being inappropriate for cruising the event. And beside, who needs another Toyota hurtling wildly out of control with crowds of people!

Again, WELCOME and best of luck making plans for your trip.

[MaryLou]

Thank you for the welcome.

Both Ronness and his big strong caregiver are aware of the extreme conditions. They've heard my stories and seen pics of white-out dust storms and still want to go. If conditions prove too extreme we'll leave the event and camp elsewhere - this is only a test.

There will be no hurtling wildly at 5 mph - any faster and we could smite an unlit pedestrian. The car, dressed like a fish, will get close to the art while walker or wheelchair will get him to it.

We will share the ride by filling empty seats with others heading our way. Goggles, dust masks, and water will always be with the car.

There will be much that will not be experienced but my two previous trips informed me that one can never see and do it all at Burning Man.

[theCryptofishist]

Ahem, Shambala, you want to go after me for taking a van, too? I simply don't have the time the skills the towing package or the inclination to go after a mutant vehicle myself. Yes, mutant vehicles are nicer than cripple vans. No, that doesn't mean we can force all cripples into golf carts. Heck, even the person I know in the dmv is just going to use her placard and then soften that in respect of the guidelines, rather than going for full fledged mutant.

[Sham]

I think it was a Prius that was discussed. If a Prius would work, then a golf card would be perfect. I'm not sure if you were talking about driving your van from art installation to art installation.

There are all different degrees of disabilty. I know a guy who was able to get an HP placard for his car because he had a toe removed. This SOB got a doctor to write a note so he could have preferred parking.

Again, I'm not making any judgement here. I would just hate to see cars with HP stickers driving all over the place because they can, not because they are really needed. This, of course is a very sticky subject, and I'm not looking to throw gasoline on any fire.

[Elderberry]

Hey there, welcome to eplaya!

JK

[Sham]

Hey there, welcome to eplaya!

JK

What took you so long? I'm here sweating this out while fishy is getting ready to beat me to a bloody pulp!
Thanks for running interference!

[MaryLou]

Well, a golf cart would be great if we had one and could get it to the burn. But as we only have a Prius, we'll have to make do. If we can get the fish costume made it should blend in nicely. Darlin' man truly needs the HP.

[Captain Goddammit]

This isn't a good plan. I seriously doubt you're going to get approval to drive around the playa in a regular car, disabled person or not. I've been on the playa 10 years and have yet to see that happen. That just isn't how it is. (At least not since about 1996 or so.) If you're able to "dress it to look like a fish" well enough to qualify as a mutant vehicle and you get a DMV mutant vehicle sticker you'll be OK, but it doesn't sound like you understand how much modification is expected for such approval. Simply putting a fish-looking skirt over a Prius isn't gonna cut it. The days of bullshit, half-ass excuses of "art cars" are over.
Have you checked out the DMV rules and regs? You will need advance approval of your vehicle's design, something you should be working on now. You won't be able to just show up with a disabled placard and expect to drive your car around the playa.
Just because a Prius is all you have does not mean they'll be forced to let you drive it around the playa. A whole goddamm lot of disabled people go to Burning Man and only have a Taurus or a Tahoe...

[AntiM]

Actually, they can, but they have to obey the rules about no driving on the Esplanade, 5 mph, stay back with the art cars at the burn.

How do you get a license?

Know the Black Rock City Vehicle Protocols and Driving Rules at Burning Man.
Meet the DMV's Disabled Vehicle License Criteria (below).
Pre-register your vehicle through our online application form. All vehicles must be pre-registered through this form to be considered for on playa licensing.
Go to the DMV at Black Rock City for final vehicle inspection.
The criteria for licensing a Disabled Vehicle include:

Providing a city or state issued disabled placard with the accompanying identification card. The name on the card must match the applicant.
A standard of safety for your vehicle and its occupants
Physical inspection of the vehicle on the playa
Past behavior
Current behavior (violating driving rules at Burning Man is cause for revocation of your license, impound of the vehicle, and possible ejection from the event)
The following vehicles will NOT be licensed:

Vehicles larger than pickup trucks (converted "mobility vans" are acceptable)
Vehicles having multiple levels
Vehicles with trailers
RVs
Motorcycles
ATVs

[MaryLou]

Thank you AntiM. I thought I read in the rules that it was possible.

[ibdave]

Actually, they can, but they have to obey the rules about no driving on the Esplanade, 5 mph, stay back with the art cars at the burn.

How do you get a license?

Know the Black Rock City Vehicle Protocols and Driving Rules at Burning Man.
Meet the DMV's Disabled Vehicle License Criteria (below).
Pre-register your vehicle through our online application form. All vehicles must be pre-registered through this form to be considered for on playa licensing.
Go to the DMV at Black Rock City for final vehicle inspection.
The criteria for licensing a Disabled Vehicle include:

Providing a city or state issued disabled placard with the accompanying identification card. The name on the card must match the applicant.
A standard of safety for your vehicle and its occupants
Physical inspection of the vehicle on the playa
Past behavior
Current behavior (violating driving rules at Burning Man is cause for revocation of your license, impound of the vehicle, and possible ejection from the event)
The following vehicles will NOT be licensed:

Vehicles larger than pickup trucks (converted "mobility vans" are acceptable)
Vehicles having multiple levels
Vehicles with trailers
RVs
Motorcycles
ATVs

SNAP....

[AntiM]

It simply isn't common or known. Hey, the fish costume shows effort. But I can see how it rubs the wrong way for those who put effort into mutant vehicles.

My first year my back went out on me; Larry hauled me in a cart with a harness around his chest. I could have used a ride that year! Or the cancer year, the AC would have been nice.

I saw a guy on Tribe looking for people to pay for gas to share his RV ..."party like a rockstar" and be chauffeured in his handicapped plaquarded Jeep to view art and to bun night. Now that feels wrong, doesn't it?

All a matter of degree and the way thins are handled IMHO.

[Bounce530]

I've seen MANY people driving around the playa in regular cars. Matter of fact I remember a silver prius driving right up to art, and the people inside it rolling down the window, taking pix, and then driving off to the next piece.
I also remember two years ago almost getting run over by a women that had her car all packed up and was driving out to the man burn. I assumed that see was driving out there to watch the burn then boogie back to defualt, and if anybody hassled her for driving, big deal, cause she was already packed and leaving anyway...that was my impression.

[MaryLou]

I promise, with all my heart, to do only good, to drive slow, to remain sober while at the wheel, to pick up all my MOOP and any I find, to share with others in need, to stay off the esplanade. All I want to do is show my honey some art and a good time.

[theCryptofishist]

Shambala
You're an ass for generalizing from mister nine-toes to all placard holders.

And this is a short list for what you need to build an art car.
Money, you gotta buy the base and materials.
Know-how to do the building.
Physical strength, and the ability to scramble up ladders in order to build
Time

Now, for the population in question:
Money can be very difficult. 2/3 of handicapped people don't work. However they are getting by, many don't have much disposable income, and after ticket, food and transport there may not be much left for golfcarts.
Know-How. Totally don't underestimate the importance. The one thing we don't want on playa is MVs that aren't safe. Anyway, some cripples will have it, others wont. NO reason to expect that as a whole they are any more or any less mechanically adept than the general population.
Physical prowess, um, pretty much the definition of the population is a lack of the sort of strength and agility that I'm talking about. Of course, there's huge variability within the population; some may well have the ability to put together a stunning art car, but it's silly to expect all of them to do it.
Time. Well the unemployment comes in handy here.

As for "visual blight" there's all those rental trucks and mobile homes with naked logos. There's hordes of cute young things in the playa uniform of wacky fur, little more than lingerie, and boots longer than my vestigial limbs. There's the creepy shirt-cockers. A few vans and priuses aren't going to tip the event into worthlessness.

As AntiM pointed out, she's making an honest effort--what the fuck problem do you have with that?

[theCryptofishist]

MaryLou
Sorry to go ballistic in your thread like that. I do have a thread in the "Experiences" section about disability on the playa. I'll try and put the link in here.

Edited to add: Here we go.

[MaryLou]

Thank you Cryptofishist. I've enjoyed the discussion (all the viewpoints 'cause there was a time when I didn't have a cripple in my life) and I'll check out the thread.

[gyre]

A golf cart or motorized scooter might be more in line for getting around and seeing the art as opposed to a Prius. There are hundreds of HP permits issued, but imagine if each one had a car to drive around to see the art.

Everyone with a placard can drive around and can get a permit on request, as long as they can operate it safely.
Not speaking for the dmv, but some vehicles the burning man rules prohibit for the disabled are legal for them to use, provided they can operate them safely.

A car works better going out on the deep playa, but is a colossal pain in the ass to drive in the city, just like any larger art car.
A smaller vehicle is much easier to use in the denser areas.
And visibility is better most of the time without a windshield, especially at night.


It is a huge issue to pack for burning man, AND get even a wheelchair out there, but if you're coming from Sacramento, someone may be able to help.
An ultralight trailer, may be an option.
It sounds like you need something in the size range of a golf cart, which is a much bigger thing to carry.


Shambala, it's my understanding that losing toes can cause serious difficulty for someone trying to maintain their balance.

MaryLou, Shambala isn't normally an idiot.

[gyre]

Hoping to get a costume built to make the Prius look like a fish.

If you can't fully convert the car, I suggest adding some general lighting for visibility, especially on the sides.
Reflective material works very well too.
The 3M Diamondstripe is available in solid color pinstripes and can actually blend in on a car or truck in daily life.
Really lights up in a beam.
This works for bikes and wheelchairs too.

Lighting can add to the general festiveness of the car too.
Any general decoration can make the car look less out of place and more acceptable.
Even a man logo in tape or vinyl helps.


Are these the wheels you're talking about?
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=26065

[Sham]

MaryLou, I'm sure the plans will come together for you just fine. Last year, I met theCryptofishist for the first time and was impressed with her determination and effort to make it to the playa. I have read many threads about accessability and the lack of mutant vehicles to accomodate wheelchairs. When I got home, I started looking for a low bed truck that could be converted into a mutant vehicle. I found the perfect truck, and it will fit 3 wheelchairs as well as 6 to 10 more passengers on the top deck. As I started working on this, I considered a lift, but decided on a ramp due to weight restrictions. After contacting the DMV, I of course found that I would not be able to get an HP permit since I don't need one myself, but would have to mutate the vehicle so extreme as to get both a day and night permits---and then just offer rides for wheelchair bound participants.

As this comes together, I find it both fascinating and disturbing that the person that motivated me to build this vehicle, costing thousands of dollars out of my pocket, is the first one in line to kick me in the nuts. Eventually I'll learn.

[gyre]

A general reminder that the speed in the city or crowded areas is 5 mph or less.
You must not raise dust or create a safety hazard, so it's usually less.
Often it means matching the walking speed of the most befuddled pedestrian, and the wider the vehicle, the harder that is.

That alone drives people to avoid larger vehicles when they can.

[MaryLou]

[quote="gyre"][quote="Are these the wheels you're talking about?
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=26065[/quote]

Wow! No ours' are 2 1/2" wide nubbies and the front are 2 1/2" with an 8" diameter. The bigger front tires really help with uneven ground. If the tires are too big there is no chance of Ronness moving independently for long - the extra reach would wear him out quick.

I plan to light up the car for night whether it's dressed like a fish or not.

Shambala - I'm not sure about the nuts but you kinda sound like a regular boot in the ass might help :roll:

[gyre]

I think smooth tires work better out there than the nubbie type.
The wide ones seem to float over the dust drifts.

Textured tread seems to break through the surface.
Wide does help.

[MaryLou]

http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchai ... 57351.html

I considered these but the extra reach would be too much and he would lose independence. They would make the caregiver's job easier though.

[ygmir]

I can't find the answer on the main site, so can anyone tell me:

if you bring a vehicle in under the H.P. permit, are others allowed to drive it?

[gyre]

I can't find the answer on the main site, so can anyone tell me:

if you bring a vehicle in under the H.P. permit, are others allowed to drive it?

Yes, as long as the permit holder is in the car.

[gyre]

http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelchai ... 57351.html

I considered these but the extra reach would be too much and he would lose independence. They would make the caregiver's job easier though.

I don't see dimensions.
Are they farther away or a different diameter than normal?

They sure look like they would work, but they may make the Surly wheels look like a bargain.

[ygmir]

I can't find the answer on the main site, so can anyone tell me:

if you bring a vehicle in under the H.P. permit, are others allowed to drive it?

Yes, as long as the permit holder is in the car.

thanks.

[Sham]

Shambala - I'm not sure about the nuts but you kinda sound like a regular boot in the ass might help

I got it loud and clear. It's an entitlement thing and you just saved me a shit-pot of money. It's all about self reliance!

By the way, we are inviting Louie 9 toes into our camp and he can drive us all around in his Lincoln Town Car all week. All he needs is the placard!