Good points Dougly. I read a number of his articles and he's excellent. It gave me pause about my practice of carrying openly, not concealed. I'll probably carry concealed like he recomends from now on, if I'm going armed.
I've walked all over Portland, OR at night by myself and maybe foolishly never felt I was in danger. However, when I worked and travelled in the woods for work, I frequently carried, as lot of Forest areas are being used for Pot grows and Meth labs. And those last people are flat out crazy.
Guns, Love Em or Leave Em
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much2naughty2
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:49 am
- Location: Deviant Playground
- Contact:
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Ugly Dougly
- Posts: 17612
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: เชียงใหม่
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ygmir
- Posts: 30403
- Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
- Burning Since: 2007
- Camp Name: qqqq
- Location: nevada county
and, I agree, if it's simply give him cash......but, more and more, it seems, they thump or kill you, then, take your stuff.....without even asking or a thank you.Ugly Dougly wrote:It just might be worthwhile giving him my wallet. Right now, I got $11 and a maxed out credit card.
Ever read a book called In The Gravest Extreme? By Massad Ayoob. He's an experienced cop who teaches firearm skills internationally. His recommendation? If you're not in mortal danger, go ahead and give the creep some cash.
Some people are okay with a death on their hands and some aren't. It's hard to say how anyone will react. Just saying.
Which particular neighborhood is it where you need a gun to survive? I have wandered the streets of Bangkok, Karachi, Manila, Tijuana and Hong Kong, alone, at night, with no trouble (with no firearm and usually with an expensive camera). What's Oakland got that I should be afraid of? My thought is that it's the attitude, not the hardware.
I'd not kill over mere cash. but, if I feel they're going to do me, or, more importantly, a loved one, well......I'm not askin' or waitin for an answer.......
and, just because you don't feel in danger, doesn't mean you're not........
YGMIR
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
Wishful thinking is only effective until it's not.
What does the usual headline, 'Robbed, Then Killed' mean to you?
I remember the fear on the driver's face when I directed him to certain areas of oakland.
And I remember multiple times people wouldn't let me go to the train or bus station, because it was unsafe.
You tell me why?
At this point, the number of times being armed has avoided violence for me is beyond my count.
So why invite death?
I'm not understanding your argument.
The only attitude a criminal respects is the one that leads them to think they will lose.
What if the next one you meet is ready to die?
I asked some major gang members why someone would do home invasions.
Their response was that "they are seeking death."
And they had utter contempt for people doing that.
I thought it was a bit pat, but I can't find a better answer.
There is a large portion of the population that sees other people as prey or predator.
Nothing else.
Attitude works with wild tigers....sometimes.
When it doesn't....
What does the usual headline, 'Robbed, Then Killed' mean to you?
I remember the fear on the driver's face when I directed him to certain areas of oakland.
And I remember multiple times people wouldn't let me go to the train or bus station, because it was unsafe.
You tell me why?
At this point, the number of times being armed has avoided violence for me is beyond my count.
So why invite death?
I'm not understanding your argument.
The only attitude a criminal respects is the one that leads them to think they will lose.
What if the next one you meet is ready to die?
I asked some major gang members why someone would do home invasions.
Their response was that "they are seeking death."
And they had utter contempt for people doing that.
I thought it was a bit pat, but I can't find a better answer.
There is a large portion of the population that sees other people as prey or predator.
Nothing else.
Attitude works with wild tigers....sometimes.
When it doesn't....
You are supposed to use a duty type holster for open carry, not needed for concealed.Ugly Dougly wrote:Yeah, I wonder about open carry. I mean, at your local Trader Joe's you're not likely to encounter some hard core ex-con who will snatch it from your holster. But stay off International Ave., unless you're trained up.
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Trishntek
- Posts: 3462
- Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:27 pm
- Burning Since: 2010
- Camp Name: Retrofrolic!
- Location: Ventura, CA, USA
- Contact:
It's a jungle out there I tell ya!gyre wrote:Wishful thinking is only effective until it's not.
What does the usual headline, 'Robbed, Then Killed' mean to you?
I remember the fear on the driver's face when I directed him to certain areas of oakland.
And I remember multiple times people wouldn't let me go to the train or bus station, because it was unsafe.
You tell me why?
At this point, the number of times being armed has avoided violence for me is beyond my count.
So why invite death?
I'm not understanding your argument.
The only attitude a criminal respects is the one that leads them to think they will lose.
What if the next one you meet is ready to die?
I asked some major gang members why someone would do home invasions.
Their response was that "they are seeking death."
And they had utter contempt for people doing that.
I thought it was a bit pat, but I can't find a better answer.
There is a large portion of the population that sees other people as prey or predator.
Nothing else.
Attitude works with wild tigers....sometimes.
When it doesn't....
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!
A typical news story here.
They chose to rob security and defacto police officers.
I wonder how much different behavior would have helped?
This is in an area that is far from the worst in town, but we've had enough murders in the nicest malls here.
I bet every city has, if not to the same numbers.
http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-wonder-br ... 9281.story
Child Among Three Shot Outside Bread Bakery
Melissa Moon
April 29, 2010
FAST FACTS:
Three people, including a child, were wounded during a shootout outside a Wonder Bread Store
The shooting began after two men tried to rob a security guard
Two victims and one suspect were transported the hospital
(Memphis 4/29/2010)A little girl was among three people wounded in a shootout in North Memphis.
It happened late Wednesday night, when two armed robbers held up a security guard outside the Wonder Bread Bakery Outlet on Jackson Avenue.
The bullets started flying when two friends of the security guard came to his rescue.
Police say two men approached the security guard, who was at the back of the store, and demanded his wallet.
That's when an off duty Memphis Housing Authority Officer and another man, who stopped by to visit the security guard, jumped out of their cars and exchanged gunfire with the suspects.
They managed to shoot one of the suspects in the leg. One of the guard's friends was also shot in the stomach
The Memphis Housing Authority Officer's daughter, who was sitting in his car, was also grazed by a bullet.
The owner of a convenience store next to the Wonder Bread outlet said just before the shooting, one of the suspects may have been casing his place.
"One of those robbery guys came into the store at around 11 o'clock and walked around three or four times. I asked what you want he said don't rush me, don't rush me! I said what do you mean don't rush me? I'm going to rush you out of her and he went and started shooting at the Wonder Bread," said Ray Ghoshen.
The two victims and the suspect were all taken to the hospital.
The 6-year-old has since been released.
Police are still looking for the second suspect.
They chose to rob security and defacto police officers.
I wonder how much different behavior would have helped?
This is in an area that is far from the worst in town, but we've had enough murders in the nicest malls here.
I bet every city has, if not to the same numbers.
http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-wonder-br ... 9281.story
Child Among Three Shot Outside Bread Bakery
Melissa Moon
April 29, 2010
FAST FACTS:
Three people, including a child, were wounded during a shootout outside a Wonder Bread Store
The shooting began after two men tried to rob a security guard
Two victims and one suspect were transported the hospital
(Memphis 4/29/2010)A little girl was among three people wounded in a shootout in North Memphis.
It happened late Wednesday night, when two armed robbers held up a security guard outside the Wonder Bread Bakery Outlet on Jackson Avenue.
The bullets started flying when two friends of the security guard came to his rescue.
Police say two men approached the security guard, who was at the back of the store, and demanded his wallet.
That's when an off duty Memphis Housing Authority Officer and another man, who stopped by to visit the security guard, jumped out of their cars and exchanged gunfire with the suspects.
They managed to shoot one of the suspects in the leg. One of the guard's friends was also shot in the stomach
The Memphis Housing Authority Officer's daughter, who was sitting in his car, was also grazed by a bullet.
The owner of a convenience store next to the Wonder Bread outlet said just before the shooting, one of the suspects may have been casing his place.
"One of those robbery guys came into the store at around 11 o'clock and walked around three or four times. I asked what you want he said don't rush me, don't rush me! I said what do you mean don't rush me? I'm going to rush you out of her and he went and started shooting at the Wonder Bread," said Ray Ghoshen.
The two victims and the suspect were all taken to the hospital.
The 6-year-old has since been released.
Police are still looking for the second suspect.
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cowboyangel
- Posts: 6986
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
stylistically, the Bushmaster Carbon-15 got it beat by a mile....ygmir wrote:how, pray tell, will you now keep up on current events?..........geospyder wrote:Shot a couple interesting guns today - an HK MP5 K sub-machine gun and the infamous Street Sweeper. The poor paper person didn't stand a chance.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981
The right to carry a weapon when leaving restaurants which serve alcohol, was passed last year and after a media frenzy, including propaganda from this newspaper (owned elsewhere), calling it "the guns in bars bill", the restaurant association got the law struck down as unclear by a judge.
Leaving a restaurant is one of the highest risks most people face for robbery, rape and murder here.
One of the restaurant managers who spoke out against the bill, had a serious robbery shortly afterwards.
Robbers love disarmed customers.
And they love finding guns left in cars by legal requirement.
Many of the owners complaining of the self defense law are well known to carry weapons with a permit.
(Restaurant owners are well known to be targets for robbery, and we already know restaurants are targeted anyway.)
The reaction to this bullshit campaign has been a boycott of restaurants.
And now a much clearer law.
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... -governor/
Guns in bars bill OK'd by Tennessee House; heads to governor after plea for limits fails
NASHVILLE -- Despite a passionate speech by a Republican asking "What line will we not cross for the NRA?" the House approved the guns-in-bars bill Wednesday night and sent it to the governor.
The House voted 66-31 -- a veto-proof majority -- to approve the Senate bill that passed last week, after rejecting an amendment to maintain the gun ban in "bars" but allow them in restaurants serving alcoholic beverages.
If it becomes law as expected, it allows more than 270,000 Tennesseans with handgun-carry permits -- plus millions of others from states whose permits are recognized by Tennessee -- to go armed into any business serving alcohol of any kind.
Owners may still post signs prohibiting guns inside. And permit holders caught drinking while carrying a gun are subject to a misdemeanor charge punishable by up to a year in jail and a three-year suspension of their permit.
The amendment would have banned guns in businesses deriving less than half of their income from food sales and required owners of such places to post gun-ban signs. It was voted down 60-36.
Lawmakers in 2009 passed a loosely worded bill purporting to allow guns in restaurants serving alcohol but left it to the public to differentiate between them and "bars" with more liquor sales than food -- a distinction that technically doesn't exist in Tennessee law. It was in effect for four months before a judge overturned it as unconstitutionally vague.
Leaving a restaurant is one of the highest risks most people face for robbery, rape and murder here.
One of the restaurant managers who spoke out against the bill, had a serious robbery shortly afterwards.
Robbers love disarmed customers.
And they love finding guns left in cars by legal requirement.
Many of the owners complaining of the self defense law are well known to carry weapons with a permit.
(Restaurant owners are well known to be targets for robbery, and we already know restaurants are targeted anyway.)
The reaction to this bullshit campaign has been a boycott of restaurants.
And now a much clearer law.
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... -governor/
Guns in bars bill OK'd by Tennessee House; heads to governor after plea for limits fails
NASHVILLE -- Despite a passionate speech by a Republican asking "What line will we not cross for the NRA?" the House approved the guns-in-bars bill Wednesday night and sent it to the governor.
The House voted 66-31 -- a veto-proof majority -- to approve the Senate bill that passed last week, after rejecting an amendment to maintain the gun ban in "bars" but allow them in restaurants serving alcoholic beverages.
If it becomes law as expected, it allows more than 270,000 Tennesseans with handgun-carry permits -- plus millions of others from states whose permits are recognized by Tennessee -- to go armed into any business serving alcohol of any kind.
Owners may still post signs prohibiting guns inside. And permit holders caught drinking while carrying a gun are subject to a misdemeanor charge punishable by up to a year in jail and a three-year suspension of their permit.
The amendment would have banned guns in businesses deriving less than half of their income from food sales and required owners of such places to post gun-ban signs. It was voted down 60-36.
Lawmakers in 2009 passed a loosely worded bill purporting to allow guns in restaurants serving alcohol but left it to the public to differentiate between them and "bars" with more liquor sales than food -- a distinction that technically doesn't exist in Tennessee law. It was in effect for four months before a judge overturned it as unconstitutionally vague.
This is different.
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... uspect-se/
Before the shooting, Burkley's 44-year-old mother was seen following McAfee in her Volkswagen Beetle as the teenager walked down the street.
She told detectives that McAfee had recently robbed her. Witnesses said the Volkswagen driver told McAfee, "I know you robbed me, and I'm taking your picture." She then sent the picture to her son's cell phone, detectives said.
Not long after receiving it, detectives said, Burkley, who was driving in the neighborhood in a white Mitsubishi Montero, shot McAfee multiple times in the back. Burkley, whose nickname is "Trey," admitted firing three shots at McAfee, according to the affidavit of complaint.
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... uspect-se/
Before the shooting, Burkley's 44-year-old mother was seen following McAfee in her Volkswagen Beetle as the teenager walked down the street.
She told detectives that McAfee had recently robbed her. Witnesses said the Volkswagen driver told McAfee, "I know you robbed me, and I'm taking your picture." She then sent the picture to her son's cell phone, detectives said.
Not long after receiving it, detectives said, Burkley, who was driving in the neighborhood in a white Mitsubishi Montero, shot McAfee multiple times in the back. Burkley, whose nickname is "Trey," admitted firing three shots at McAfee, according to the affidavit of complaint.
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Ugly Dougly
- Posts: 17612
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: เชียงใหม่
Latest news here-
18 year old mexican kid and his 16 year old brother robbed in broad daylight by masked men.
He gave them $14 his mother had given him.
They shot him in the head.
They tried to keep him breathing until his mother could arrive, but were not able to.
Being on foot is especially hazardous.
This is the reality of it.
18 year old mexican kid and his 16 year old brother robbed in broad daylight by masked men.
He gave them $14 his mother had given him.
They shot him in the head.
They tried to keep him breathing until his mother could arrive, but were not able to.
Being on foot is especially hazardous.
This is the reality of it.
If you're referring to the Burkley / McAfee shooting, note that the victim was the alleged robber, though obviously not self defense.Ugly Dougly wrote:Robbers love to blindside people.
A lot of this probably happens, but the cellphone thing seems new.
And you rarely get the story on this sort of thing.
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Ugly Dougly
- Posts: 17612
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: เชียงใหม่
No case in particular, just a general tendency for lowlife creeps to sneak up behind drunks and hit them from behind (called "rolling a drunk") rather than facing them down and giving the gun owner a chance to draw and aim. 
Note also that drinking has a tendency to make people stupid and do stupid things, such as go home with ugly women and draw guns when they're not ready to kill.
Note also that drinking has a tendency to make people stupid and do stupid things, such as go home with ugly women and draw guns when they're not ready to kill.
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Thecatman
- Posts: 3045
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:47 pm
- Burning Since: 2002
- Camp Name: alone
- Location: Carson City. About 125 miles south of BRC
Geez gyre, from some of your posts, I take it you live somewhere in Tennesee.gyre wrote:Latest news here-
18 year old mexican kid and his 16 year old brother robbed in broad daylight by masked men.
He gave them $14 his mother had given him.
They shot him in the head.
They tried to keep him breathing until his mother could arrive, but were not able to.
Being on foot is especially hazardous.
This is the reality of it.
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Thecatman
- Posts: 3045
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:47 pm
- Burning Since: 2002
- Camp Name: alone
- Location: Carson City. About 125 miles south of BRC
My wife and I stayed two night in Chatanooga in 1992 and went to Dollywod in 1994. Tennesee seemed like a pretty laid back place back then. We even thought of moving there. Guess things changed for the worse in 18 years. 
My cats are cuter than your grandkids!
"Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem." Ronald Reagan
"Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem." Ronald Reagan
It all depends on where you are.
Things have grown worse as population goes up, but Memphis is worse than other parts of Tennessee.
One reason was the dispersal of the projects, importing gang culture to all neighborhoods.
Funny thing is, it carried crime to the places the honest people in the projects wanted to go to, to avoid crime.
But crime can occur anywhere.
The most horrific crimes are completely random.
Some of the worst crime is more likely in small towns.
One that is still used as a bad example of crime, happened in Knoxville in a good neighborhood.
Started as a random robbery, they handed over their money, then carjacking.
Turned into a kidnapping, then days of torture ending in murder, all for no apparent reason.
Lots of really nice people here for the most part though.
Sometimes strangers are more helpful than your friends.
And chance meetings have turned into old friends, like from asking directions.
Of course, that can happen anywhere.
Things have grown worse as population goes up, but Memphis is worse than other parts of Tennessee.
One reason was the dispersal of the projects, importing gang culture to all neighborhoods.
Funny thing is, it carried crime to the places the honest people in the projects wanted to go to, to avoid crime.
But crime can occur anywhere.
The most horrific crimes are completely random.
Some of the worst crime is more likely in small towns.
One that is still used as a bad example of crime, happened in Knoxville in a good neighborhood.
Started as a random robbery, they handed over their money, then carjacking.
Turned into a kidnapping, then days of torture ending in murder, all for no apparent reason.
Lots of really nice people here for the most part though.
Sometimes strangers are more helpful than your friends.
And chance meetings have turned into old friends, like from asking directions.
Of course, that can happen anywhere.
In the morning at the Armalite plant in Illinois, they play this old song.
[youtube][/youtube]
Photos but lower quality audio.
[youtube][/youtube]
My Little Armalite
And it's down in the Bellaghy, that's where I long to be,
Lying in the dark with a Provo company,
A comrade on me left and another on me right
And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite.
I was stopped by a soldier, said he, You are a swine,
He beat me with his baton and he kicked me in the groin,
I bowed and I scraped, sure me manners were polite
But all the time I'm thinking of me little Armalite.
And it's down in Crossmaglen, sure that's where I long to be,
Lying in the dark with a Provo company,
A comrade on me left and another on me right
And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite
Sure a brave RUC man came up into our street
Six hundred British soldiers were gathered round his feet
Come out, ye cowardly Fenians, said he, come out and fight.
But he cried, I'm only joking, when he heard the Armalite.
Sure it's down in Kilwilkie, that's where I long to be,
Lying in the dark with a Provo company,
A comrade on me left and another on me right
And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite.
Sure, the army came to visit me, 'twas in the early hours,
With Saladins and Saracens and Ferret armoured cars
They thought they had me cornered, but I gave them all a fright
With the armour piercing bullets of my little Armalite.
And it's down in the Falls Road, that's where I long to be,
Lying in the dark with a Provo company,
A comrade on me left and another on me right
And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite.
When Tuzo came to Belfast, he said, The battle's won,
Said General Ford, We're winning sir, we have them on the run.
But corporals and privates on patrol at night,
Said, Send for reinforcements, it's the bloody Armalite.
And it's up in Ballymurphy, that's where I long to be,
Lying in the dark with a Provo company,
A comrade on me left and another on me right
And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite.
[youtube][/youtube]
Photos but lower quality audio.
[youtube][/youtube]
My Little Armalite
And it's down in the Bellaghy, that's where I long to be,
Lying in the dark with a Provo company,
A comrade on me left and another on me right
And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite.
I was stopped by a soldier, said he, You are a swine,
He beat me with his baton and he kicked me in the groin,
I bowed and I scraped, sure me manners were polite
But all the time I'm thinking of me little Armalite.
And it's down in Crossmaglen, sure that's where I long to be,
Lying in the dark with a Provo company,
A comrade on me left and another on me right
And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite
Sure a brave RUC man came up into our street
Six hundred British soldiers were gathered round his feet
Come out, ye cowardly Fenians, said he, come out and fight.
But he cried, I'm only joking, when he heard the Armalite.
Sure it's down in Kilwilkie, that's where I long to be,
Lying in the dark with a Provo company,
A comrade on me left and another on me right
And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite.
Sure, the army came to visit me, 'twas in the early hours,
With Saladins and Saracens and Ferret armoured cars
They thought they had me cornered, but I gave them all a fright
With the armour piercing bullets of my little Armalite.
And it's down in the Falls Road, that's where I long to be,
Lying in the dark with a Provo company,
A comrade on me left and another on me right
And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite.
When Tuzo came to Belfast, he said, The battle's won,
Said General Ford, We're winning sir, we have them on the run.
But corporals and privates on patrol at night,
Said, Send for reinforcements, it's the bloody Armalite.
And it's up in Ballymurphy, that's where I long to be,
Lying in the dark with a Provo company,
A comrade on me left and another on me right
And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite.
A range of weapons.
[youtube][/youtube]
Details from the video-
First a heavy artillery Barrack buster which is the name given to several improvised mortars, developed in the 1990s by the engineering group of the IRA. Known by the British army as the Mark 15
American massive Ramo M600 (similar to the Barrett M90) 50cal (12.7mm!!!!) sniper rifle (this caliber is big enough that it could blow someones leg off at the thigh)
Used for triple A first one Soviet 12.7mm DShK Machine Gun
Some American heavy duty M60 machine guns also used as triple A
One Belgan general purpose FN MAG machine gun between the M60s and the DShK and then by itself on a tripod
On the firing range another humongous 12.7mm M90 Barrett then the American Armalite AR-18's (obtained by the IRA from the US in the early 1970s and an emotive symbol of its armed campaign.) plus another FN MAG and finally a Russian automatic AK-47 rifle.
Giving the gun Salute three very cool American M-16 automatic rifles
In the crowd some more Armalite AR-18's
[youtube][/youtube]
Details from the video-
First a heavy artillery Barrack buster which is the name given to several improvised mortars, developed in the 1990s by the engineering group of the IRA. Known by the British army as the Mark 15
American massive Ramo M600 (similar to the Barrett M90) 50cal (12.7mm!!!!) sniper rifle (this caliber is big enough that it could blow someones leg off at the thigh)
Used for triple A first one Soviet 12.7mm DShK Machine Gun
Some American heavy duty M60 machine guns also used as triple A
One Belgan general purpose FN MAG machine gun between the M60s and the DShK and then by itself on a tripod
On the firing range another humongous 12.7mm M90 Barrett then the American Armalite AR-18's (obtained by the IRA from the US in the early 1970s and an emotive symbol of its armed campaign.) plus another FN MAG and finally a Russian automatic AK-47 rifle.
Giving the gun Salute three very cool American M-16 automatic rifles
In the crowd some more Armalite AR-18's
-
cowboyangel
- Posts: 6986
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
NRA does it again with their elevation of right wing nit wit Glen Beck at the convention. I want gun rights not a lame argument against socialism. If these fools were talking about real socialism-the kind we do for Wall St and the Bankers, now that would be a different thing. The NRA could spend some time focusing on California's restrictive laws rather than jacking off for the nut crowd in Kentucky. Ok Ok shoot me.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981
-
cowboyangel
- Posts: 6986
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
Gotta love the Irish. No stupid re-enactor shit. These guys are for real. Hey, we fucked with the Brits a long time ago too....remember?gyre wrote:A range of weapons.
[youtube][/youtube]
Details from the video-
First a heavy artillery Barrack buster which is the name given to several improvised mortars, developed in the 1990s by the engineering group of the IRA. Known by the British army as the Mark 15
American massive Ramo M600 (similar to the Barrett M90) 50cal (12.7mm!!!!) sniper rifle (this caliber is big enough that it could blow someones leg off at the thigh)
Used for triple A first one Soviet 12.7mm DShK Machine Gun
Some American heavy duty M60 machine guns also used as triple A
One Belgan general purpose FN MAG machine gun between the M60s and the DShK and then by itself on a tripod
On the firing range another humongous 12.7mm M90 Barrett then the American Armalite AR-18's (obtained by the IRA from the US in the early 1970s and an emotive symbol of its armed campaign.) plus another FN MAG and finally a Russian automatic AK-47 rifle.
Giving the gun Salute three very cool American M-16 automatic rifles
In the crowd some more Armalite AR-18's
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981