Why is Burning Man so white?

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:21 pm

actiongrl wrote: One (black) friend I talked about this with offered, "Andie, that's really nice, but don't you get it? Black folks don't go camping." I know that's not universally true, but he seemed to feel it was a valid explanation.

People are people are people.
What is so true is that people of all races can stereotype themselves.

White people can't dance. That's a fact that why they listen and wiggle or "what ever you call it" to techno!

Oh, that's right we call choreographing!

Hey look at me, I'm choreographing! Whee Heee!
Badger wrote:
Had the same response from an fellow. He added something else to the effect that... "We don't camp much and we damn sure don't ski like you white folks..."
Here in the Great Outdoor- everybody camps, ski or even flyfish and I mean everyone. It's where you grow up and who you hang with that will determine who you will be.

this is an old thread that has been discussed long before electronics. I remember in the Great Halls of the Senate about a very intelligent black Senator that often compared to one of the greatist minds of his time as an equal by some and demeaned by others that wished to use his skin color.

Though I forget the black senator's name at this time, I do remembers the other Senator that he was often compared to and that man was Cecero!

Though sadly neither man could ski!

But I'm sure they had great tents that any BMer would die for!


A II Z

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Apollonaris Zeus
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:28 pm

Warning Typo Error-

That's Cicero!

Born when lawyers could hire Armies to sway a decision.




A II Z

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diane o'thirst
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Post by diane o'thirst » Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:26 pm

I don't think it's a question of the so-called minorities not hearing about the festival, nor do I think it's because they'd feel they wouldn't be welcome. They are, just like anyone else.

I think it's because they don't need to.

Take a look at the Burner community. What's the common thread here? We're all rugged individualists, if you'll excuse a generalization. Mostly one-sticks with a singular vision and a passion to make it manifest.

Take a look at the "minority" cultures, I'll cite the Afro-American and Hispanic because they're the most populous: what's the commonality there? They all put massively heavy emphasis on the Family unit. In many ways, African-Americans are as traditionalist as any Euro and in other ways even more so because of the tradition of the Matriarch of the family. The mother often calls the shots in the household.

Hispanic: They're seriously involved in their own culture and also in the Church. Religion features strongly in Hispanic culture, and Catholicism is far and away the leading contender. The fiesta is also a large part of the Hispanic culture. Also, here, the Family is foremost: strong family ties are a hallmark.

Do any of you do what your mother tells you? I'll bet not, in Euro culture that child who trots to the will of their mother is a figure of scorn, especially if they're living on their own.

Take a look at non-Hispanic Euro culture now. The family unit has fractured, we've analyzed, sterilized and rationalized away much of our social rituals — at least the spontaneous, celebratory ones — and I think we're trying to reclaim that with Burning Man.
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Post by DVD Burner » Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:28 pm

Jeeeezzzzus krist!

you guys are really showin your ignorance. :lol:
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Post by DVD Burner » Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:30 pm

bbwwwwwwwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!



oh man too funny. :lol:
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Post by BAS » Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:51 pm

DVD Burner wrote:Jeeeezzzzus krist!

you guys are really showin your ignorance. :lol:
Hmph! I wanted to be The Voice Of Ignorance! :P
(Or was that "Innocence"? Or "Incense"? Some "I" word I'm pretty sure....)

Anyway, if the event is open to all comers, and minorities aren't being turned away at the gate or otherwise made to feel unwelcome, does it make any sense to worry about it? If it even exists, that is (from the sounds of things, these statistics aren't being tracked). Unless someone wants to force minorities to show up at the event, the best that can be done is allow for equal opportunity for people to come or not come as they please. There are already tickets for low income people, free tickets being offered via contests (of skill or luck), etc. I think that if someone really wants to come, the opportunity is there.


Just my opinion.
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Post by DVD Burner » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:08 pm

ooooohhhh gawhd..

Low income. minorities.


You guys watch a lot of TV.

Has it ever occurred to you guys that maybe not that many people of color come because of several reasons?

1) Not too many know of Burningman
2) a few of the ones that may know about Burningman feel it's for freaks only
3) Some feel uncomfortable or may feel like they may be unwelcome.
4) Like most people they feel they are not artists or have anything to offer

I can go on and on but so far, of the reasons proposed in the previous posts, none of them seem to be necessarily the reason.
But please keep going, so far it's a riot. :lol:
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Post by DVD Burner » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:13 pm

BTW there is nothing wrong with being a freak. after all I'm one and proud of it. :lol:


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Post by BAS » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:18 pm

I can go on and on but so far, of the reasons proposed in the previous posts, none of them seem to be necessarily the reason.
:?: You think that there is one reason :?: Heck! Is there even a problem :?: :!: :?:

Anyway, the first one you list isn't a flaw, it is a feature.

The last three are pretty much the same problem restated in a slightly different form: people feeling like they wouldn't fit in for one reason or another. This is actually what most people have mentioned on this thread.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go see if I own a television set or not.... :)
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Post by DVD Burner » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:21 pm

you have a poit to a certain extent. but for the most part it's for most of the same reasons that many dont. Color has not much (to a certain extent ) to do with it.
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Post by baramiah » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:34 pm

i keep commimg back to this post mainly to see where its going, so far many people have said the same things as to there idea as to why people of minority dont come, but dose it really matter. i have yet to go to bm, but isnt it suppose to be a time of equality and getting togther and forgetting about the outside world and there views of "equality" and things of such nature. i also think that whatsinaname has only made 1 post and it started this hole thread, i am curous as to what his/her thoughts are now of all the replies? why have you not been back yet? jsut a curious thought.
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Post by DVD Burner » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:44 pm

well I still say everyone should have not posted till next week. :lol:


You are all now on punishment. Go to your rooms.
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Post by baramiah » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:52 pm

aawwwwwwww man! i dont have a room to go to :cry:
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Post by G.W.B. » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:55 pm

baramiah wrote:aawwwwwwww man! i dont have a room to go to :cry:
Oh shit!

Are you a minority?
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Post by baramiah » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:59 pm

well i am 1/4 Portuguese dose that count?
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Post by BAS » Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:24 am

DVD Burner wrote:you have a poit to a certain extent. but for the most part it's for most of the same reasons that many dont. Color has not much (to a certain extent ) to do with it.
:?:

I thought what I said was that I am not even certain it is true that any disproportionate representation of any kind exists. (I honestly do not know, since I haven't been to BM, and am wondering what basis the original poster, who it would seem has only made that one post, and on the first day of joining these boards, has for saying that a problem exists.)


well I still say everyone should have not posted till next week.

Well, it is now next week! :P
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Post by Silver 2 » Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:33 am

I started two longish statements relating to reactions to Burning Man from my Black and Asian co-workers (about 50% of our manpower) but I decided to just give their basic reactions to Burning Man:

Black: 'That's some kind of White thing, no Black person would do that'. When I showed them pictures of Blacks at PDF and Burning Man those people were '.. not real black folks'.

Asian: "That's too weird'.

My son's 17 year old best friend (from Africa) echoed the Black point of view a couple of weeks ago stating that any Black people at 'those things' probably talked like they were from the rich parts of Boston.
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Post by Badger » Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:41 am

We don't demograph at burningman with that particular statistic. Why is burningman so ~gay/female/rich/hetero/druggy/hippy/ravey/primal/pagan

If we answer you're silly little question then we'd have to answer every stupid question from all those people behind you (waves at immense crowd of question askers.)

Finally, LRB. Finally. definitely a post worth thinking about.
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Post by Dork » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:45 am

Most of us did a lot of research before deciding to go. We saw pictures, videos, talked to people we knew who went, etc. Something clicked in our heads and we thought BRC was the place for us, where we could spend some time wth like-minded folk having a good time. We may not have noticed that nearly all of the people in those pictures were white, as the friends probably were, as were the people shown in the video. We may have noticed but not thought anything of it.

Imagine that the creator, most of the organizers, and most of the people in those pictures were of one (non-white) color, were all midgets, or any other obvious thing you would see in a picture? Can we honestly say we would have gotten the same vibe and felt like it was a place we would feel welcomed and loved? For some percentage of us, the answer would be no. It wouldn't be a conscious thought for many, but there still wouldn't be the same vibe. Somewhere in the back of our heads we'd perceive it as a "Korean thing" or "Hispanic thing" or what have you. Right now Burning Man is still largely a "White people thing"

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Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:03 pm

Hey, just curious for the sake of this particular discussion, is everyone here white?
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Post by diane o'thirst » Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:40 pm

If I looked in the mirror and my skin were white, I'd be *seriously* worried...only vampires are <i>white.</i>

But to be precise, yes, I'm mostly European with a dash or two of Shawnee and Iroquois in there for fun. And when I say "European" I mean really European, as in Euskadi. The Basques are to Europe as Athabascans are to North America, everyone else on the continent migrated in from elsewhere.

The point being —?
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Post by unjonharley » Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:49 pm

I be quite pink. But will roast in the sun before BM. MY camp mate is native american if that has any rhing to so with it. Oh ya, he's the one with skin cancer. who da thunk?
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Post by LeChatNoir » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:16 pm

Ok... I’ve thought about this for a while, given it time to percolate a little and per DVD Burner’s request, it’s Monday morning local time (I want a star beside my name and I want this noted in my permanent record).

WhatsInAName wrote:... & am rather curious as to why BM is such a "white man's festival," if you will?
Anyone care to explain? Share your theory!
Hmmm...

After reading this thread through twice, and noticing that you’ve not posted any responses to your initial query, I’m thinking you may just be a common Shit Stirrer. But I may be wrong and would welcome you correcting me on this. Now back to your statement. This is something that I’ve taken note of also. Not something that worries me in any way, but I do find it interesting.
Dork wrote:Imagine that the creator, most of the organizers, and most of the people in those pictures were of one (non-white) color, were all midgets, or any other obvious thing you would see in a picture? Can we honestly say we would have gotten the same vibe and felt like it was a place we would feel welcomed and loved? For some percentage of us, the answer would be no.
Exactly. That’s a good example, Dork. And with that in mind, I have my own reasons for noticing such things.

I am a white, Southern male and live with the stereotypes that people place on me because of this. I also know what its like to have a biracial child in that same South. Though I am not her biological father, she calls me “Daddy”. Her mother is white and her actual father, who left before her birth, is Senegalese. To most people around here, she would look black instead of mixed, what with all of that Macy Gray hair goin’ on. I know what it feels like to have someone turn their back on you when just the day before they smiled and talked at length. All because they found out you have a child who is a different skin color than you. Through her, and her mother, I have learned much about an African American perspective. I am also, among other things, Melungean. A mix, consisting at least in part, of African, Native American, and Portuguese. This explains the darker, olive skin and cheek bones of my mother’s father (and more so his father). But the Celt from my own Dad’s side won out when it came to physical features and so I look more Northern European. I tan on my arms and face only. I will never know what it’s like to be black, not firsthand. Not like my little girl will. The comments, dirty looks, and unnerving situations took their toll on my adopted family. It is astounding the words that some people will say, out of their own ignorance, to a little girl who can’t even understand why they say them to her. She and her mother eventually moved back to where they lived before. A place that’s more diverse and better for them, but where I was in no position to relocate to. I encouraged them to go, even though it ripped my heart in the process. But I digress... Through the time I spent with them, I have garnered a unique outlook and I lay it out here to give you perspective for my post. Perhaps I'm just more in tune to such things.

There have been some situations where I have been far more comfortable being the only white in a room of black people, than I have been being the only white with a mixed child in a room full of white people. So this thread’s question was one I’ve pondered before hand and it caught my eye when it popped up here on the eplaya.
Captain Goddammit wrote:Why even make an issue of this?
I think that’s a question as valid as the one that inspired (even if the initial one wasn’t intended to be). In answer, I’d say if for no other reason than the fact that examining something for what it is, or it appears to you to be, can help you learn vast amounts about both it and your own self. Inquiring of yourself (and others) is a good way to learn about how your actions are perceived from viewpoints outside your own. You may think you come across in one way when, in the reality of someone else, you come across quite differently.

For the record and those who may not know, I’ve not yet experienced Burning Man. ‘04 will be my first year after many full of planning and working towards it. It seems to me, from what I”ve seen, read, and been told so far that it is an event attended by more white people than not. Is this good? Is this bad? Neither, I’d say. It’s simply what it is and has never weighed too heavily on my mind. When I personally have wondered as to why this may be the case, it was not to insinuate that there is something racist about the event. Rather it’s to examine what it is about the event that makes it what it is, and more importantly why I am drawn to it. So rather than view the posing of this question as a finger pointing accusation of bigotry, view it as a vocalization of something observed and contemplated. As far as I’m concerned, if my own observations are proven to be correct or not makes no difference to me. It is what it is, I am what I am, and I’m driving across the country because it calls to me. Anything beyond that is merely an attempt to understand “why” and maybe find out more about who I am in the process.

I watched “Dust Devils” again today while thinking about this thread. Like it or not, there seem to be a lot more folks of European descent there over any other. People of other ethnic origins continuously appeared, but not in the numbers of folks that look like me. I did, curiously enough, notice a lot of people making use of things that did not appear, at least on the surface, to be of an origin within their own ancestry. White guys and girls playing the berimbau at a Capoeira performance, playing Djembes, Didjeridoos and Sitars... Belly Dancing in traditional garb. Am I saying there is something wrong with this? Hell No!!! I think it is wonderful, beautiful and should be encouraged. I too have assimilated aspects of various cultures into my own being. Some of them are related to my ancestry, some are not (at least not in so much as I can tell). Doesn’t matter... If something calls to my blood, then I investigate it. If it feels right, then I keep it around.

Quoting Larry Harvey from “Dust Devils”:

“I think the reason thousands of people are ready to endure survival conditions in a remote place at the risk of their life is that they’re desperate, or certainly driven to find something that they can belong too...

We offer them the opportunity to be what all those ads offer them. “Be Yourself”, except the ads offer them a product as a substitute for that experience. We offer them the real thing. But then we offer them communal belonging and that’s what the White people don’t have...

But if there were real coverage of Blacks in America or Mexicans in America, it would be apparent that they have a cultural wealth that the White people don’t have. So why would you, if you have that; if you have a community so vital it produces a thing like Rap Music, you know... why would you travel thousands of miles to a desert to be with a bunch of White people.”


A community so vital... Certainly something I’m lacking and yearn for. It’s just so hard to find a place where a Scott-Irish-German-African-Native American-Portuguese-White-Southern-Broken-Healed-Artistic Misfit Fuck Up of a person can find a sense of community.....


Except maybe out there at Burning Man.
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Post by zzberlin » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:33 pm

Louisville, huh. I went to Waggener High School.
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Post by DVD Burner » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:45 pm

woha LeChatNoir, that was pretty intense.

Ok,

so does that mean that everyone else on this thread is black?
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Post by DVD Burner » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:46 pm

:lol:
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Post by Ron » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:07 pm

diane o'thirst wrote:... And when I say "European" I mean really European, as in Euskadi. The Basques are to Europe as Athabascans are to North America, everyone else on the continent migrated in from elsewhere.
...
Actually, if you want to get precise about it, all human ethnic groups found outside of Africa migrated wherever there're found, from Africa. As far as the best data and science says so far, anyway.

We're all from somewhere else, and your point?

:)

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Post by diane o'thirst » Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:16 am

Read the comparison: I said "Euskadi are to Europe as Athabascans are to North America."

The Athabascans didn't rise here: they migrated over Beringia from Siberia. About the same time, those who were to become the Euskadi walked across the Pillars of Hercules — now the Gibraltar Straits — from Africa and settled in what would come to be known as the Iberian Peninsula. The Mediterranean Sea wasn't there in the last Ice Age, there was a landbridge, just like Beringia (now the Bering Straits).

So! Neither the Athabascans nor the Euskadi were endemic species of human to the area that became associated with them. But here's the point: We all came from Africa, yes, and the current anthropological paradigm includes Peking Man, the Euskadi and the Athabascans (and their nearest kin, the Ainu). But at what point does a culture become "Native" to the geographical region it inhabits? Can you stand a Hutu tribesman next to Shaquille O'Neal or a Somali next to Bill Cosby and say they're the same?
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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:09 am

Personally speaking and all silliness aside, I think everyone should be happy for the type of diversity that Burningman has to offer. Maybe there aren’t that many black people. Of the ones that attend I feel everyone should be grateful. From what I've seen there are a great number of intelligent and mature folks of color, so much so that it just may be the reason that most haven’t really noticed much. After all it could be worse.

Word!

Image

I'll never forget the best time I had at burningman was in "white trash camp" near center camp. despite the name colors didn't mater.

I think this thread is best as a fun thread from here on out. Not much else is there from where I stand.

IMHO.

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Post by Tiahaar » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:26 am

Here's what my campmates and I decided (yes we discussed and pondered on the races of people observed), that the remarkable BRC thing is that there exists the mingling mix of people all playing together. The real world ethnic monorace posses are conspicuously absent (replaced by much more exciting roving mutant posses of undetermined sex/race/intentions heheh). My trio was two Anglos and a Spaniard but we all are mixes to some extent. Mongrel Camp!

The most jaw-dropping beautiful fellow I saw last year was this gorgeous ebony creature doing a show at Bollywood...YOWWW : ) Met him and his friend later (both amazing) and was doing the star-struck "ohmygoshIsawyourshowyouareAmazingWOWpicture?autograph?comehomewithme???" thing heehee.
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