israel, judaism, jews and zionism

[DVD Burner]

Is the Star of David the new swastika?


In a disturbing reversal of symbolism, Israeli extremists are defacing

Palestinian property with the Jewish symbol

By Judy Mandelbaum
Thursday, Apr 15, 2010 14:16 ET

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/ ... index.html


This post originally appeared on Judy Mandelbaum's Open Salon blog.

Time was when Nazis used to slather swastikas on synagogues and Jewish businesses to prepare the local population for expulsion or much worse. It's sad that this sort of behavior persists around the world, as a new study by Tel Aviv University shows. But it's even sadder to see Israelis regularly defacing Palestinian property with Stars of David with equal glee and with what appears to be the same brain-dead mindset.

Your local paper might not have covered it, but in the wee hours of Wednesday morning a gang of Israeli settlers attacked the West Bank village of Hawara. "Palestinians reported two torched cars on the village’s central road early yesterday," Haaretz writes. "A small village mosque, used only on the weekend, had the word 'Muhammad' sprayed in Hebrew and a Star of David. Haaretz also found graffiti with the Jewish prayer 'Praise be onto him for not making me a gentile.'" The attackers also took the opportunity to destroy some three hundred olive trees, a major source of local income.

In February of 2009, a Canadian writer by the name of Marcello Di Cintio witnessed how "earlier this week, the IDF raided Jayyous. Soldiers entered the village at night, seized about a hundred young men and penned them in the school gymnasium. The troops also occupied several village houses and spray-painted a Star of David over a pro-freedom mural on a school wall. The IDF took about a dozen men with them when they left, and the men are still in custody somewhere in Israel."

According to the Maan News Agency, in December 2008, "Israeli settlers rampaged through five villages in the northern West Bank early on Tuesday, vandalizing mosques, attacking farms and harassing residents. In the villages of Yatma, Qabalan and As-Sawiya, south of Nablus, settlers slashed the tires of more than 20 cars and also set fire to thousands of shekels worth of straw bales, used as animal feed. In As-Sawiya, settlers wrote slogans insulting Islam and the prophet Mohammad on the walls of a local mosque. ettlers painted a star of David and slogans such as 'Death to Arabs' on the village mosque."

"On 19 March 2007, Israeli settlers illegally occupied an empty four-story Palestinian building," the Electronic Intifada reported. "This multi-unit Hebron building is close to the Kiryat Arba settlement of 7000 residents and is strategically located to link Kiryat Arba to the smaller enclaves inside Hebron’s Old City. … Palestinians say that another settlement will lead to yet another checkpoint and tighter curfews, further isolating this part of the city. Already settlers have placed a wire at the entrance of the Palestinian house across the street to trip residents as they exit their home. They have stoned the house and spray painted a Star of David on the front door."

Also in 2007, Tim McGirk blogged about his own experiences in the West Bank for Time Magazine:

Not long ago, I ventured into Hebron ... I wanted to see what [the Palestinians] thought of their Jewish neighbors. On this street, winding up a hill, it was easy to spot the Arab houses. Their windows and doors were covered in metal grills to protect them from stones, rotten fruit and the occasional gunshot coming from settlers living across the road. Over the years, a few Jewish settlers had also been shot by Palestinian militants, and Israeli soldiers had cordoned off this section, emptying life from the heart of old Hebron. The Arab houses were easy to spot for another reason. The settler kids had spray-painted a Star of David on walls of all the Arab houses. A religious symbol used for intimidation. I found this disturbing, like seeing the Klu Klux Klan’s cross blazing on a black man’s lawn.

Blogging for the Madison Times, George Arida described a visit to Nablus in 2003:

We stopped at Joseph's Tomb, a site of archaeological and religious significance. It also had military significance; the Israelis had bombed it over a year ago (the dome and outside walls were damaged) and then had later used it as a base of operations. The soldiers had left a spray-painted Star of David on the ancient stone wall. This spray-painted souvenir was left by the Israelis on the walls of many buildings in Nablus.

Israeli troops pulled out of the West Bank city of Ramallah in 2002. "The home of Hamdi Flaifer, 35, was in ruins after an Israeli search," the New York Times reported. "Windows were broken, furniture was smashed, sofa cushions slashed, closets and cabinets were emptied onto the floor. Just outside his front door, Israelis had spray-painted a Star of David and a number, indicating to other Israelis that his house had been searched."

The Mogen Dovid is a symbol that has experienced a roller coaster of shifting meanings over the centuries. The six-pointed star was a symbol known to many religious and spiritual traditions and only became firmly associated with Judaism and Zionism in the late nineteenth century. But its power as a Jewish symbol derives less from what Jews have done with it than from what anti-Semites have tried in vain to make it into. Storm troopers painted Stars of David on Jewish businesses during their boycott of Jewish shops in 1933. In September, 1941, SS leader Reinhard Heydrich signed a decree demanding that all Jews in German-occupied Europe wear a yellow star – first to shut them up as potential defeatists, and later to mark them for extermination. After the war the new State of Israel chose the Star of David as its national emblem. Thus it has gone from a symbol of pride to a symbol of shame and fear and then back again to a symbol of pride and endurance against impossible odds.

Will it return to being a symbol of shame and fear -- perhaps permanently? With attacks like the ones I described above on the increase, and now that the Israeli military has approved plans that could lead to the mass deportation of tens of thousands of West Bank residents on short notice, Palestinians are increasingly experiencing the Star of David as a threat to their very existence. This should be a scandal to everyone who remembers what the star has meant in the past. My message to Israelis is simple: Stop doing this. NOW.











And to think the people that posted at the beginning of this thread that were/are pro Israel haven't shit to say about any of this reality.

Palestinians are not to try to defend themselves against these barbarians?

[DVD Burner]

Palestinian Leaders Approve Peace Talks With Israel

08 May 2010
Robert Berger | Jerusalem

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/mi ... 87459.html

The Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization has approved indirect peace talks with Israel, the first negotiations in 18 months.

"The Palestinian leadership today has declared its acceptance to participate in the proximity talks," said PLO Secretary-General Yasser Abed Rabbo.

He said the decision is based on guarantees from the U.S. "The United States will take a firm political position against any provocation that will affect the peace process and the negotiations between the two sides," said Abed Rabbo.

The term "provocation" was a clear reference to Israeli settlement expansion in the West Bank and East Jerusalem-territory claimed by the Palestinians for a future state. The settlement issue has overshadowed U.S. efforts to revive peace talks and strained ties between Washington and Israel. But the Palestinians agreed to resume peace talks after Israel curbed construction in the settlements.

U.S. envoy George Mitchell, who is currently in the region, will shuttle between Jerusalem and the West Bank for four months, to push for a peace agreement. But gaps are wide on the core issues of the conflict: the status of Jerusalem, Jewish settlements, Palestinian refugees and the borders of a Palestinian state. So on both sides, expectations are low for a breakthrough.


------------------------------------

Who is extending the "olive branch"?.........................AGAIN!

[Trishntek]

as Golda Meir once said, "Until they love their children more than they hate us, there will be no peace."

[can't sit still]

Well, it looks like the U.S. is going to have an even stronger jewish slant;
http://www.haaretz.com/news/record-numb ... s-1.257560
Now that the Pakistani Taleban has ATTACKED us in Times square, we're going to have to blow up Pakistan too. I wouldn't be at all surprised of congress demands it,,, along with a long-overdue attack on our dire enemy, Iran.
2.2 % of the U.S. is jewish and 5.1 % of D. C. is jewish. Congress will be about 9 % jewish.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ewpop.html
Who knows what percentage of White house and cabinet officials are jewish?
Do you think it's possible that there could be a conflict of interest? Is there a possibility that some of these politicians might lean towards israel at the expense of America?

[Corwin]

Hey you make a good point man! I'm an Atheist and I was hoping to take over some land in China and claim it as a new country, but I figure I won't get much trouble from the Chinese government, because I mean...come on, their Atheist too right?

I mean "do you think it's possible that there could be a conflict of interest? Is there a possibility that some of these politicians might lean towards my new country at the expense of China?

As far as the "I'm right, you're wrong" rants everyone always rambles on about when the Israel/Palestinian issue comes up I have one thing to say.
You're all delusional if you think either side is unified and therefore can be represented by individual events, or if you think either side isn't just a bunch of militant racists, or if you think Israel got their land and power any differently than other other country in the entire god damn world. It wasn't too long ago that we shot up some Mexicans to get California or your beloved "Black Rock City" area, and it wasn't very long before that they shot up some other people to get it first.

[DVD Burner]

It wasn't the native Mexicans that did up any shootin. It was the Spaniards.


Excellent points tho. Duly noted.

[can't sit still]

if you examine the history of imperial conquest, the conquerer rarely exterminated the former owners. California was peaceful both before and after the change of ownership. Palestine was peaceful before the jews tried to "rebalance" the population mix.
The conquest of Palestine very closely parallels the conquest of America though.
Both the Ottoman empire and the British avoided extermination in Palestine.
I don't think that it is a good idea to justify continuing extermination just because there was lots of previous extermination.
The West didn't tolerate ethnic extermination in Bosnia. Why should it tolerate extermination in Palestine?

[DVD Burner]

Well that's an even better note.

[Corwin]

Well, let me clarify. I'm not justifying or condoning what happened. What I intend to suggest however, is it was long enough ago that its too late to complain. There may still be people alive from the era, so yes its relatively fresh, but there's also at least 2 or 3 generations that have already started growing up there. What exactly is everyone suggesting, that Israel say, "Man we're sorry, here's everything back, we'll just go swim in the sea like you want us too."

Yes it would be nice if the Israel government spent more resources to bring Palestinians back in and be treated as full citizens. That would seem the fair route. But that's unrealistic as hell. I wonder what will happen to the powers-that-be when suddenly half the population isn't Jewish and will likely refuse Jewish leadership first chance they get.

I'm sure there wouldn't be a problem mixing two groups of 7 million people who have hated and killed each other for 60 years, and at the same time finding land and housing for them...

[can't sit still]

What planet are you from?

[DVD Burner]

Edit: By the way, you should refrain from the copy and paste bullshit. Those articles are barely shy of propaganda from both sides, and if you require the articles and written opinions of others to make your point you should ask yourself if you've really thought about your arguments, or you are just nodding your head to the words of others.

Well I am sure you have links to facts that can dispute anything I have posted here, RIGHT?


Doubt it.

I'm very thorough with what I post.

Prove me wrong.

[can't sit still]

DVD, much like the last "hasbara" rep who dropped by, these people want to insist that all of this is old history. It happened long ago and should be ignored today. She said that we all should work towards healing. The bullets and the bulldozers are destroying as fast as they can. The blockade is strangling the people. The depleted uranium is killing and maiming as fast as it can. The farmland is being destroyed daily but,,, let's all start healing.

[DVD Burner]

[youtube][/youtube]

CSS, These folks have a hard time with reality.

Maybe it's BM's fault, tho at one point that I know of, BM did not have as many that had a hard time with reality.

Brutality that happens on a daily huge scale to the Palestinians is ignorable?

[Corwin]

I meant to delete that stupid edit part before you saw it :P

I don't mean to come off as pretentious and arrogant that's just how I am.
Believe me, I definitely wish both sides would work towards figuring out a mutually beneficial solution, I just don't see it happening. Human nature won't let logic or fairness dictate the actions of the world.

And no it isn't ancient history and the problem shouldn't be ignored, I just don't think recriminations of either side does anything but fuel the hatred.

[can't sit still]

Corwin, as long as we can keep a dialog going, that is positive.
" Human nature won't let" Palestine had relative peace for decades. While Libya, an a few other countries went 'hardline", the arabs in Palestine were relatively peaceful. Maybe not be choice but, they were too poor to stir things up.
So, let's clarify your statement. jewish nature won't let,,,,
Most leaders through history have complained about the jews. Voltaire; "They are, all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts, just as the Bretons and the Germans are born with blond hair. I would not be in the least bit surprised if these people would not some day become deadly to the human race." (Lettres de Memmius a Ciceron, 1771)
http://www.iahushua.com/JQ/antisemite.html

Churchill;
CHURCHILL, WINSTON. 20th century British politician. In 1920, he wrote a long newspaper article of the recent Bolshevik seizure of Russia. After praising what he called the "national Jews" of Russia, he said:

"In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish efforts rise the schemes of the International Jews"
Here we see that he differentiated between national jews and those who were only interested in world domination. I think that it is important to keep this in mind.

The jews seem to believe that americans support them; "And while 63% of Americans staunchly support Israel" http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atla ... _the_jews/
That's a load of BS.

Marx was from a long line of rabbis. He eventually despaired of the jews;
"According to several scholars, for Marx Jews were the embodiment of capitalism and the representation of all its evils.[15]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jewish_Question

When one talks about human nature, one must remember that leaders and scholars down through history have condemned the jews.
One of the longest lasting empires of all time was the Byzantine empire. It lasted 1100 years.They did not persecute jews. But, jews were not allowed in teaching, banking or GOV. https://www.metmuseum.org/explore/byzantium/time.html
Before one speaks about nature of,, one should look at the talmud.

[DVD Burner]

HEY Corwin!


Welcome to eplaya!

[Corwin]

Can't sit still is just a racist noob. I don't think I need to expand on that...

[DVD Burner]

CSS is far from a NOOB Dood!



This is a place of fact checking and debunking.

If you cant back up what you post then change channels.

[can't sit still]

Corwin, this forum is populated, for the most part, by people who aren't interested in peripheral BS like personality and opinion. Where else would you find a discussion like this without flames? Whether or not I'm racist and whether or not it is justified is NOT the subject under discussion. My posts concern a religion, NOT a race.
This is simple. I'll explain. Various people post information that they support as well as they can. The individuals in the group make an independent decision regarding the value and veracity of the information.
If you have an opinion on the subject of the thread, just post info and support it with cites.

[ygmir]

I would submit, most here are racist or prejudice, in some way.........

the point is?.............

[FIGJAM]

I agree. Im prejudiced against racists.

[ygmir]

Exactly!!
we all have that "us vs them" on some level.

The thing is, to use intellect to deal with it.

To me, the only disingenuous ones, are those that say they have "no" prejudice............

even "hating haters" is, as such..........

[DVD Burner]

[youtube][/youtube]

I think you guys may be missing the point, that being, who are the oppressors and who are the oppressed?

Now it is obvious no one here looked at this video and if so did not view it all the way through nor did they read most of this thread because if they did, racism and missing the point about oppression would not be an issue.

[ygmir]

I think I'm just having a sidebar here...........and, my point stands.
I'm just sayin' that no one is without prejudice.........and, you can rationalize your prejudice any way you want, justify it for the "oppressed", or whatever, but, it exists and colors perception.

It interests me, the point he makes, that, just because you are emotional or cry "alligator tears" does not make you right.
that is very cogent.

[DVD Burner]

So ummmm, let me get this straight.......Dr. Norman Finkelstein is a racist?


cause all I know is I have been saying the exact same thing he has been saying and I just dont see a race issue.


Now that's not to say I have not been called a racist.

[ygmir]

So ummmm, let me get this straight.......Dr. Norman Finkelstein is a racist?


cause all I know is I have been saying the exact same thing he has been saying and I just dont see a race issue.


Now that's not to say I have not been called a racist.

well, he may well be a racist, or, prejudice in some way. I'd bet, to some degree, he is......like all of us are.

But, you see my direct point there, is, that he's not falling for the "alligator tears" as a way to divert attention. I'm applauding him for not buying into the emotions of the questioner.

you miss my point, it seems.
Maybe (likely) I'm not being clear.
I stand by the opinion that we are all prejudice, to some degree, and, it's through intellect, that we can see and deal with it.

His statement (and yours, if they are the same) is not racist. I did not state or imply that.

As noted, I am having a little "sidebar" above, on prejudice, just to put it in perspective (mine).

And, yes, I have called you a racist, and, would add prejudice, in general.

And, I stand by that.

I don't say that, to denigrate you as a human or your intellect, but, many of your statements and posts (in several threads) show a decided favoritism to certain groups, and, (to me) therefore, you are prejudice towards them.

[Corwin]

Ya...or you guys are over-rationalizing a bunch of posts about how the evil Jews are taking over the world.

[DVD Burner]

you miss my point, it seems.
Maybe (likely) I'm not being clear.
I stand by the opinion that we are all prejudice, to some degree, and, it's through intellect, that we can see and deal with it.

you got a point there.
I have to admit, I am prejudice.
Prejudice against stupid people. Stupid people of all races, genders and classes.
I am sorry to be this way but I really see no reason for stupid people to live.

[DVD Burner]

Ya...or you guys are over-rationalizing a bunch of posts about how the evil Jews are taking over the world.

You didn't know that the Jews were trying to take over the world?

bet you think that's not true.

[DVD Burner]

Israel slaughters Palestinian elderly

Press TV - ‎58 minutes ago‎
Sat, 15 May 2010 15:54:01 GMT


http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=12 ... =351020202

The Israeli Army fatally shoots an elderly Palestinian farmer, claiming he had violated a combat zone by entering his farm near Gaza's border with Israel.

On Saturday, the 75-year-old, identified as Fuad Abu Matar, was "hit with several bullets fired by Israeli occupation soldiers," Muawia Hassanein, head of the Gaza Strip's emergency services was quoted by AFP as saying.

The victim's body was recovered in the Jabaliya refugee camp in the north of the coastal sliver.

An Army spokesman, however, said the soldiers had spotted a man nearing a border fence, saying "The whole sector near the security barrier is considered a combat zone." He also accused the Palestinians of "many provocations and attempted attacks."

Agriculture remains a staple source of livelihood in the Gaza Strip ever since mid-June 2007, when Tel Aviv imposed a crippling siege on the impoverished coastal sliver, tightening the restrictions it had already put in place there.

Israel has, meanwhile, declared 20 percent of the arable lands in Gaza a no-go area. Israeli forces would keep surveillance of the area and attack any farmer who might approach the “buffer zone.â€