Why do Burners </3 Ravers & etc?

[Popobumm]

So one of the tenets of Burning Man that draws me to it is the aspect of live and let live. A place where people are free to build, create, dance, laugh, cry, and interact to their hearts content with *supposedly* little to no judgement.

And although I am admittedly still a birgin (at least 'til August), I have been researching like mad for almost a year and one thing seems to be a constant underlying theme in many burners' opinions: they hate ravers, 'tourists', frats, and younger people (18-20s).

Of course not everyone, but it feels like a significant population of Black Rock shares these sentiments. Why is that?

I always thought raving and it's PLUR mentality would fit the bman environment very well. And frats...well, I can understand that one, but I was under the impression that people would see you for who you are not what group you are from.

I am personally a bit of a raver but am looking forward to the art aspect more than anything. Something about witnessing what people can create using their imaginations and ingenuity really gets me excited. However no worries, I will not get offended by any comments because I know why I personally dislike some ravers, but I feel the more 'true' ravers that stick to PLUR are actually some of the most down to earth people I've met.

Anyway, please enlighten (or flame) away!

p.s. I did a search and didn't find any threads on this so I apologize if it's a repeat!

[Simon of the Playa]

Santas vs. Clowns
Pirates vs. Ninjas
Monkeys vs. Robots
Ravers vs. Artists.


its good to see we've evolved.

[Snow]

PLUR?

[Popobumm]

[quote="Snow"]PLUR?[/quote]

Oh sorry, PLUR = Peace Love Unity Respect
It's a kind of raver 'slogan'. A 'true' rave is one where all these qualities are exhibited. No battling, fighting, arguments and just generally good vibes.

Some even go for PLURR, the second R standing for Responsibility. Party hard, but be responsible as they say...

[Parasitoid]

what is it i wonder that makes one a raver?

[C.f.M.]

Overwhelmingly, those groups you've listed have made a reputation for themselves of not being self-reliant (much less radically) and just showing up to party with no regard for the intent/heart of the event or their fellow community members.

So, for those of us who bust our asses and have our shit together, some fucktard wandering around barefoot in the desert with no water and a gut full of drugs, or asking to throw their trash in our camp, or asking for one of the steaks we have on the grill, or putting the entire event in danger because of their stupidity, well...I gots no love for them.

[C.f.M.]

the aspect of live and let live. A place where people are free to build, create, dance, laugh, cry, and interact to their hearts content with *supposedly* little to no judgement.

And who makes it all happen? The people that spends days - months - years working on camps, the toilets, building goodwill in the locals and local LE or the people that roll in Friday night with coolers of beer, spend a couple of nights pissing all over the playa, and leave Sunday?

[AntiM]

What she said: we hate slackers and moochers.

[Fire_Moose]

You forgot hippys in yer original post. we don't like them either.


Also, you are putting what you see on eplaya into affect on the actual playa which you have never been.

On the actual playa there is much less talk about get away from me hippy, and much more ignoring of the raver ya know?

[AntiM]

Also, never confuse eplaya with the playa. You'll see.

[Elorrum]

I "not heart" (I miss words) people who think their own personal view of why they are there is the only valid one. no moochers, no slackers, well said CfM, right AntiM.

[Ugly Dougly]

Originality rules the wasteland. So whaddaya got, toots?

[bm_cricket]

I think it's hard to say why we (on ePlaya, it's a special land of internet memes and IT staff from around the white middle-upper class world) hate some groups.

Here's my reason:
I've had a bad experience with enough individuals from a given group that I have come to expect them to be idiots.

Example:
If I see one more drunken 20something guy wearing a feather boa around his neck and a camera in his hand taking pictures of every topless woman he sees without so much as a "hello" first I'm going to strangle the mother-fucker with his own feather boa!



Really, almost all the other groups don't bother me as much. Ravers are often very nice people. Some are self reliant, others can't figure out how to flush a port-a-john. It takes all kinds. Judge thee not by the color of one's fuzzy boots but by how much water they have with them.

I think it comes down to self reliance and the ability/willingness to do their own research pre-event. Hippies who expect the Rainbow Gathering Reeeeeeeeeeeaaaallyyy don't belong. Hippies who like the Rainbow Gathering but also like getting freaky with massive unsustainable temporary art in the high desert.. well... those hippies are perfectly welcome.

[Bob]

Gotta hand it to the ravers, unlike hippies they're way more subtle about accusing you of having a moral defect for not loving everything about them.

[DVD Burner]

PLUR?

Oh sorry, PLUR = Peace Love Unity Respect
It's a kind of raver 'slogan'. A 'true' rave is one where all these qualities are exhibited. No battling, fighting, arguments and just generally good vibes.

Some even go for PLURR, the second R standing for Responsibility. Party hard, but be responsible as they say...

And there you have it.

As one of the original Burners, this was the thing from the beginning.

It's why Ravers and most all folk love BM.

Welcome to eplaya.

(this post was done via Google Chrome for the first time.)

[DVD Burner]

the aspect of live and let live. A place where people are free to build, create, dance, laugh, cry, and interact to their hearts content with *supposedly* little to no judgement.

And who makes it all happen? The people that spends days - months - years working on camps, the toilets, building goodwill in the locals and local LE or the people that roll in Friday night with coolers of beer, spend a couple of nights pissing all over the playa, and leave Sunday?

Need not more be said!

[bm_cricket]

Gotta hand it to the ravers, unlike hippies they're way more subtle about accusing you of having a moral defect for not loving everything about them.

I live in a city, Ravers live in cities. Hippies on the other hand seem to live in a magical wonderland where dashboard alters are better than break jobs, and tinctures should replace antibiotics.

I'm a "hippie" by my parents definition but I have a lot more in common with ravers.

Still I stand by this: Do your research, be self reliant, give something to the community.. We'll <3 you.

[DVD Burner]

Gotta hand it to the ravers, unlike hippies they're way more subtle about accusing you of having a moral defect for not loving everything about them.

[DVD Burner]

Gotta hand it to the ravers, unlike hippies they're way more subtle about accusing you of having a moral defect for not loving everything about them.

I live in a city, Ravers live in cities. Hippies on the other hand seem to live in a magical wonderland where dashboard alters are better than break jobs, and tinctures should replace antibiotics.

I'm a "hippie" by my parents definition but I have a lot more in common with ravers.

Still I stand by this: Do your research, be self reliant, give something to the community.. We'll <3 you.

[EmilyD]

Judge thee not by the color of one's fuzzy boots but by how much water they have with them.

Great advice cricket!

[Popobumm]

Ah ok, things are a bit more clear now. I had thought that being into more mainstream Electronic dance music (trance, house, etc) as opposed to dubstep and the like was a bit frowned upon for some reason. From the little I know about the drama between the Opulent Temple and the BM organization, I was afraid that shuffling or glowsticking to some trance would be scoffed at (no worries, I'll bring battery powered sticks or make sure to bring my moop back with me).

So it's not really any particular group, just more the morons who have the perpetual mindset of 'someone else will take care of it'. I can understand that, as normal raves leave a ton of garbage lying around at 4am. Literally, it's a sea of trash after those things (and I'm not talking about the people...zing!)

So then I propose this question, since many a burner probably have this unintentional stereotype of ravers being moochers, how would one who may look like a raver differentiate themselves so as not to attract any subconscious scorn? I'd really like to show that it's not ravers, just assholes who exist in any population.

Then again I will prob come back from black rock in September having the same mindset as many of you =p

[C.f.M.]

Of course every sub-culture or population has assholes. As I initially stated, these particular groups have just made a name for themselves, year after year - decade after decade.

Hatin' on ravers has happened since they popped up with their useless glitter mess.

I had a horrible day, riding and riding and RIDING around, looking for my friend's camp. I'm talking up and down the block I KNEW it was on. My grumpy ass passed a frat boy unloading his SUV who stopped me. "Oh, GREAT," I thought. Right before he proved my ass wrong by making me drinking Jager and giving me a bottle of water and some sunscreen.

I LOVE IT when people shove my foot in my mouth - and hey, some of my best friends are fratty-types and psytrancers.

The reputation of said groups represents an idea, that is explicitly anti-burn. Add to that the personal experience I'd bet most of us have had with hippies asking for food/frat boys littering beer cans/ravers MOOPing like crazy and, well...the reputation is deserved.

Better than come in here and ask why we hate you (ha ha), spend the time and typing on rave boards and whatnot, educating them. Take it upon yourself at events to call out people who are littering. Etc.

[duffdog]

I suppose that there will always be negative connotations applied to people who do things at night when other people want to sleep.

But remember, if there were no music/ parties at burningman, there would be NOTHING to do at night. In fact, everything that has ever occurred at night time that is FUN at burningman was inspired by the rave scene...except maybe standing around in the dark by yourself.

And I suppose some people think standing around is fun, so those people are excluded.



Art + Artsy fartsy wierd people = daytime.

music + dancing fun people = nighttime.



These two groups can never coexist peacefully. Ravers and Artists are like Israelis and Palestinians, casualties will happen, the only question is how many.

[C.f.M.]

I suppose that there will always be negative connotations applied to people who do things at night when other people want to sleep.

But remember, if there were no music/ parties at burningman, there would be NOTHING to do at night. In fact, everything that has ever occurred at night time that is FUN at burningman was inspired by the rave scene...except maybe standing around in the dark by yourself.

And I suppose some people think standing around is fun, so those people are excluded.

Art + Artsy fartsy wierd people = daytime.

music + dancing fun people = nighttime.

...that's one of the funniest posts I've ever read on Eplaya!

[Fire_Moose]

WTF is that post supposed to mean?


imagine the looks you'd get if you went around hugging ravers at BM thanking them for starting it.


Go to the EDC, it's more yer style

[DVD Burner]

not sure i would call BM a subculture.

And I am an original Burner.

Nothing subculture about me.

No matter what anyone says.

[Simon of the Playa]

Gotta hand it to the ravers, unlike hippies they're way more subtle about accusing you of having a moral defect for not loving everything about them.

and they have better logistical support, and deeper pockets, and often quietly fund the Artists that hate us.

go finger.

[ZaphodBurner]

If I see one more drunken 20something guy wearing a feather boa around his neck and a camera in his hand taking pictures of every topless woman he sees without so much as a "hello" first I'm going to strangle the mother-fucker with his own feather boa!

Exactly. Of course, 20somethings aren't the only ones 'cause you gotta consider shirtcockers and reporters. They just don't make as much noise.

Ravers are often very nice people. Some are self reliant, others can't figure out how to flush a port-a-john.

Seriously. Plus, their drugs are scientifically engineered such that whenever a candy raver crashes, it's in the middle of somebody else's lounge, art piece, mutant vehicle, sex party, temple... then suddenly you gotta worry whether they're of legal age/alive, or whether you were the one that accidentally tossed off in their hair...

Rave music (esp trance) works great on the playa because it doesn't command your attention or expect you to know the lyrics. I like everything from James Taylor to Slayer but at Black Rock City I'm certainly not interested in watching some sweaty shirtless dude in leather pants wank a Les Paul for 90 minutes of my life. Unless it's the Mutaytor or Soul in the Machine or somebody...

[Isotopia]

Santas vs. Clowns
Pirates vs. Ninjas
Monkeys vs. Robots
Ravers vs. Artists.

All of the Above + anyone left out vs. Dirty Hippies and/or PeTA.

[d6]

1: feather boas usually give way before total strangulation
2: did the drive by shooting range pick up shells or targets, i recall not much of the 90's era BM cleaned up after themselves, or gave a fuck about burn scars, or trashing the hot springs
3: desert raves, including many in the black rock, solely depend on the core promoters as to how clean it's left after wards, not the drug-addled attendees, who just like everyone else, really should know how to clean up after themselves. out of the many that i have done in n.nv, it was cleaner when we left than when we got there - drunks dont recycle much here, and theres nothing quite so awesome as cans,broken bottles, car parts, oil, furniture, failed fires or improvised portas as an inital greeting.
4:i dislike tiesto trance to the very core of my being, almost as much as i dislike shirtless leather pants wearing toads who relate too heavily to the road warrior
5:I love to stand around, I consider it a great nite out, as I have nothing to offer to furry or big hat people in the ways of conversation.
6: its not edc or coachella, no one will eventually be coming to cleanup rejected food plates, abandoned tampons or drag you to safety.
7: do not bring your dog as an accessory. or your ferret.
8: eplaya will never mirror a magical wonderland of feelgoodery, although there is great advice and entertainment to be gleaned from its festering rinyanyons
9: making lists is about as creative as using sarcasm.
10: goto the black rock, form your own opinions, find what you like, remember its a giant parking lot in the desert, drink water,water,water, and be a personally responsibilitarian.