Guns, Love Em or Leave Em

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Thu May 20, 2010 9:15 am

My personal arsenal of democracy continues to grow with the latest addition of a remington 870.

Opinions on the Kel-Tec Sub2000? I am well aware of the love-hate relationship of the weapon, just curious what my fellow gun loving eplayans think. Looking at it for the wifey.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Thu May 20, 2010 9:20 am

as a once married man, I must say, SailMan........there are inherent dangers in teaching your wife to shoot...........

just sayin'............

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Thu May 20, 2010 8:50 pm

ygmir wrote:as a once married man, SailMan........there are inherent dangers in teaching your wife to shoot...........just sayin'............

oooOOPPPS!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri May 21, 2010 7:25 pm

Feeling confident about your weapon?
Feeling safe living in an unarmed paradise? (theoretically)

Here's some bedtime reading about 1%ers and self defense.

A social group of motorcycle enthusiasts had a dispute within the group.
We'll call the place santa barbara.

One member was ambushed in an alley by three with automatic fire, thought to be uzis.
He was unarmed at the time, like all californians.
He pulled off his belt, which was based on a harley chain.
(We all know what that's like, wide, heavy totally rigid on one plane.
After all, we all have one in the closet somewhere, don't we?)

He waded into the three attackers instead of running.
He was hit 28 times, twice in the face, arms shredded, plenty of damage.

He survived.
His attackers did not.
One had his head removed by the chain.

It really is best not to underestimate an unarmed opponent.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Fri May 21, 2010 8:50 pm

Heard about the two officers, just across the river from you, that were ambushed during a traffic stop.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri May 21, 2010 9:44 pm

Yes.
This is the highest traffic flow freeway in the country, so this happened in front of hundreds of people.
It ended at the walmart.
I'm often there myself.
Some friends were on their way there, when everything was locked down.

All traffic was shut down on all freeways and both bridges.
I don't think that's happened before.
The shooting was so loud at the walmart, people thought it was happening inside.
That's surprising.

I don't know what happened initially and they haven't shown the film of the shootout here.
They appear to be part of the Sovereign Citizen movement.

Two of their dogs were killed, one survived.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... r-injured/
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... ahoo_feeds
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... ahoo_feeds
http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpp/news/lo ... matic-loss
http://www.wmctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12515206
http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/mostpop ... Il7OA.cspx
http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/lo ... bcMNg.cspx

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Fri May 21, 2010 10:21 pm

All I heard was what I read on the internet last night and in the paper this morning: the Arkansas H.P. was doing a drug inforcement sting in the area. The "bad guys" were a father-son team and were hard core anti government type who just had a brush with the law in New Mexico. The local police chief in their hometown in Ohio issused a warning on the father back in 2006.

The Nevada H.P. along with local LEO conduct similar operations all along I80. Kinda expect that to happen here someday. I've seen several searches and arrests take place.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:24 pm

There is supposed to be raw footage on the wmc link now.

They have been doing fishing stops for some time.
Lots of illegal stops, illegal searches, false prosecutions, lawsuits and west memphis cops charged with murder after a chase.
The practice is guaranteed to result in this type of event.
It's not the first time either, all over the country.
I think it's motivated by the seizure laws, a guarantee of motivating corruption.

I was stopped by the texas group doing this.
I refused to allow a search.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:30 pm

Negotiation with computers

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:41 pm

Guess I should count my "lucky stars":

In October of 2001 I moved my wifes mother from Pennsylvania to Nevada driving a 24' Ryder truck across I40 from Knoxville to Kingman. Went right through Memphis and W.Memphis. Spent the second night in Ft Smith and the folks that ran the motel were really good, down to earth.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:45 pm

I'll be getting that P3AT at the end of June. Still owe $150 on it. Total price with taxes and back ground check came to $324.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:50 pm

Gyre, i take it you got off the first shot,,, before the computer could return fire...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat May 22, 2010 7:54 pm

That's a typical transit through here.
Driving a box truck does increase your odds of being stopped though.

The amount of traffic is really staggering through here.
Those truck stops that look so big, are the largest in the country.

My friend drives through with artillery and tanks fairly often and has never been stopped.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat May 22, 2010 8:12 pm

can't sit still wrote:Gyre, i take it you got off the first shot,,, before the computer could return fire...

I'm okay.
Thanks.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat May 22, 2010 8:19 pm

Thecatman wrote:I'll be getting that P3AT at the end of June. Still owe $150 on it. Total price with taxes and back ground check came to $324.

Hey, great news!

380 practice ammo has been showing up recently for sale.

We may make a couple of extended magazines for the 380.
Can't find an easy approach, so they will be based on the mecgar magazine.
So it will take two magazines and custom work to do it.
Let me know if you're interested in one.
I think it would make a great spare mag.
Probably be ten rounds, maybe more.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat May 22, 2010 8:34 pm

if the idea of a .380 is small and concealable, is not some big ole magazine counterproductive?

IIRC, most gun fights between individuals is over within 4 shots, by both parties.........

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat May 22, 2010 8:38 pm

That's why I think it would be more useful as a spare mag.

Concealment isn't always an issue.
In the winter, I can carry my 9mm with the 17 round magazine with no problem.
It's only useful as a spare in the summer.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat May 22, 2010 8:40 pm

ok, I get it......just clarifying........

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat May 22, 2010 8:52 pm

I figure by the time you've fired six or seven rounds, subtlety may not be an option.
And sometimes tactical reloads are called for, if you have the option.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Sat May 22, 2010 9:17 pm

gyre wrote:380 practice ammo has been showing up recently for sale.

Last week I went to Cabelas in Reno and they had a shit load .380 ammo. Since it was on the open floor I'm guessing it was mostly target grade.
On the way home from grocery shopping this morning I stopped at the gun shop I'm getting the gun from and the owner said they're starting to get more of it since more manufactures are making their line of 380s.
Smith & Wesson just released their "Bodygaurd" 380. Comes with a built in Chrimson Trace laser...and a "Bodygaurd" .38 special revolver.
I'm gonna run a few hundred rounds through it before I apply for a CCW.
So it'll be broke in and I can get use to it for the target shooting part of the class.

geospyder · Post by **geospyder** » Sun May 23, 2010 1:35 am

380 or .38 special good BUG but I'll stick with my .40 cal.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun May 23, 2010 6:21 am

geospyder wrote:380 or .38 special good BUG but I'll stick with my .40 cal.

I still come back to: what you can "hit" with.......

"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44"...........

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun May 23, 2010 6:45 am

That was the premise behind my beretta 22.
I could fire eight steady rounds in the time it takes me to fire one from the much heavier 9mm.
The 380 is a nice compromise.

If you can find a 40 I can wear in my sock comfortably, I'll dump the 380.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun May 23, 2010 6:52 am

gyre wrote:That was the premise behind my beretta 22.
I could fire eight steady rounds in the time it takes me to fire one from the much heavier 9mm.
The 380 is a nice compromise.

If you can find a 40 I can wear in my sock comfortably, I'll dump the 380.

chuckling..........

or,
you'd be really popular at the beach if you wore it in your speedo..........

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun May 23, 2010 6:57 am

Yeah, but I don't want to damage the gun.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun May 23, 2010 7:17 am

*in megaphone voice, talking to Ygmir*

"Put down the joke-gun, and, step back.......slowly"..............

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon May 31, 2010 1:46 pm

http://sill-www.army.mil/FAMAG/online_p ... llery.html

The XM777
Range 15 miles
7000 X the power of an AK47
Built in Mississippi

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Mon May 31, 2010 2:58 pm

XM777...155mm howitzer

similar to FOGBANK 155mm sound cannon on the playa last 3 years.. noise and fire

..returning 2010...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:42 am

A stunningly frank interview.
Watch the video.
http://www.wmctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12543145

West Memphis Police Chief recalls losing son in deadly traffic stop

WEST MEMPHIS, AR (WMC-TV) - West Memphis Police Chief Bob Paudert was on his way out of town with his wife last Thursday when he heard a call on his radio: officer down. He turned around.

"I saw an officer lying in the ditch face down and there were two or three officers holding his head up out of the water that was just full of blood," Paudert said. "I thought it was Brandon."

He heard officers calling him Bill, so he knew it was Officer Bill Evans, the first on the scene.

Paudert then started looking for his son, Sergeant Brandon Paudert.

"As I turned up a hill I saw a person on his back," Paudert said.

That person turned out to be his son.

"It was just awful, absolutely terrible," Paudert said. "I couldn't understand at first why everybody was with Bill and nobody was with Brandon, but once I got there it was obvious he was not going to make it."

Paudert then noticed that his wife, who had just had heart surgery, had gotten out of the car and seen her son on the road.

"Her glasses came off and she went out," Paudert said. "I thought she had died. I kept saying don't die on me, I can't lose two members of my family."

The Pauderts went home, but Bob had his police radio. He heard officers had cornered the suspects in the Walmart parking lot.

"I grabbed my pistol and I was going to Walmart and I had planned on killing them," Paudert said. "I wanted to kill them."

Before he got out of his house, he heard the suspects, Jerry and Joe Kane, had been killed.

Paudert said one of his SWAT officers came to his house after the shooting and told him about shooting Jerry Kane.

"I had it aimed at the suspect when he turned around and looked at me and I blew his brains out," Paudert said.
"I hugged him and kissed him and said he did exactly what I would have wanted him to do."

http://www.wmctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12543145
http://www.wreg.com/videobeta/506ae7b6- ... ideo-Chief

http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-west-memp ... 6048.story
http://www.wmctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12515206
http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpp/news/lo ... matic-loss
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... r-injured/
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/20 ... -sgt-bill/

Aerial video
http://www.wmctv.com/global/category.as ... nerclipid=

I still think about the hundreds of bystanders at both locations at risk from rifle fire.
I wonder if next time will be as safe?
We have seen many deaths from chases, including the one resulting in murder charges for west memphis officers.

This is how danger often occurs, folks.
Very publicly.
Crowds are so heavy at that walmart, I have never worried about safety.
It doesn't always make a difference.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:38 pm

This picture is a wider angle of your earlier post:
I take it that arm visible near the L. rear tire is the kids dumbass old man?

Guns, Love Em or Leave Em

"Never go anywhere you might need a gun."