School Bus Modifications--Legal Questions

Ozone · Post by **Ozone** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:59 pm

We're modifying a school bus and driving it from Chicago. Where do I find out what makes it legal for the road, how tall it can be, how not to get pulled over, etc.?

It will be an older model, diesel, and we know we need to paint it and we're pretty sure we don't need a CDL (Commercial Driver's License).

Anyone who has done this, what can you tell me? Are the different laws in Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, and Nevada going to be a problem?

Thanks very much for any advice.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:14 pm

Anything you do to it that makes it look "funky" is gonna increase the pullover quotient.
13'8" should keep you height-legal, 13' is safer. Some states allow 8' width, some 8'6".
If it has been converted to a motorhome and licensed as such, you don't need a CDL. If it's still legally a bus, and designed for more than 15 passengers or 26,000 GVW then you need a CDL with Passenger Endorsement. (I'm in WA State, your area may differ slightly)

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:01 pm

Ahoy Captain might you be a Good Sammer too? Yes I am & I like the club though always find ways to poke fun at the name.

For Ozone: Yay for the bus! I'm a bus nut & drive an old GM 5301. My best advice would be to join up with Good Sam so you can get their RV insurance (basic liability/injury at 300/100K runs me $84 a year as second vehicle on the account) through GMAC (very reasonable and they insure bus conversions).

Then buy the Good Sam Trailer Life Campground/RV Park & Sevices Directory. Besides the RV park info and maps it has awesome state road and safety laws by state (which for instance lists Colorado as the only state having the lower 13' height limit). Also legal licensing info. Great book.

Then you might as well round it out with the Official Good Sam Club RV Road Atlas! Yay! Big easy to read maps, lots of info.

Finally most importantly get the...you guessed it...Good Sam Emergency Road Service! $100 a year but one tow of a big motorcoach would eat that right up otherwise. Haven't had to use them for my bus yet, they did good sending a tow when my truck broke down once.

No I don't work for Good Sam, heheh, just a life member. Hope most everyone's experiences with them have been good?

Ozone · Post by **Ozone** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:40 pm

Thanks very much for the reply and e-mail. This is very helpful. I will check out these resources.

Anyone know offhand about pulling out seats? We plan to remove a good portion of the seats in back and probably cover the windows. We will build a rack on top but not taller than 13 ft. it sounds like.

Do we need restraints for the seats or anything? I mean, sure they would be useful and fun, but legally, do we need them?

Thanks again.

Das Bus · Post by **Das Bus** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:11 pm

Ozone: Google 'skoolies' and 'housetrucks'. That should give you some good sites to check out. And if I remember correctly, there's a good site at busconverions.com

Ozone · Post by **Ozone** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:14 am

This is great--we have a bus and modifications are underway.

What I can't seem to pin down is a list of the laws on modifications. Do we need to have seatbelts in our bus? The driver will have one, but do the back seats need restraints? If anyone knows an online source of this info, please post it here.

Thanks very much.

Ozone · Post by **Ozone** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:18 am

This is great--we have a bus and modifications are underway.

What I can't seem to pin down is a list of the laws on modifications. Do we need to have seatbelts in our bus? The driver will have one, but do the back seats need restraints? If anyone knows an online source of this info, please post it here.

Thanks very much.

diggum · Post by **diggum** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:53 pm

This will be my second trip with our modified school bus, but I've been informed differently about Washington State Laws with regards to skoolies.

Basically, my understanding is that you are required to remove the STOP sign and cover over any text that reads SCHOOL BUS. But other than that, you can keep it yellow, and do nothing else to the exterior. It may be different for larger buses (mine is the mid-size, 26 foot) but I don't require a CDL to drive it with passengers.

As for what is considered a motor home, I believe that the law states that 2 of the following must exist for it to be considered such: sleeping area, kitchen, or bathroom.

While we have enough seat belts for all passengers (except in the bunk beds) I've been under the understanding for some time that motorhomes fall under a different classification, as they are considered a HOME and not purely a vehicle. I think maybe I need to research this further.

According to the RCW, Wash. State defines a motorhome as:
"Motor homes" means motor vehicles originally designed, reconstructed, or permanently altered to provide facilities for human habitation, which include lodging and cooking or sewage disposal, and is enclosed within a solid body shell with the vehicle, but excludes a camper or like unit constructed separately and affixed to a motor vehicle.

In addition, WAC 308-96A-110 Private bus states:
A vehicle may be licensed as a private bus without a load license if it carries passengers without compensation and is:

(skip to relevant parts)

(3) Used by its owner to transport an athletic team, an educational group, members of a religious organization, a show troupe or similar organization;

(4) Used by its owner to transport family, guests or employees;

NY is a bit different requiring 4 of the following to be considered a motorhome:
cooking with onboard power source
gas or electric refrigerator
toilet with exterior evacuation
heat or a/c from onboard power source apart from engine
potable water supply
110v power supply apart from engine

Interesting. I am unclear as to whether everyone in the rig must wear a seat belt or not. I recall it didn't use to be the case, but recent changes to the seat belt laws may have changed that for WA state.

calsur · Post by **calsur** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:06 am

Here is a trick that has saved my butt a couple times. I use to shoot competitively and the laws on how you can carry firearms in a vehicle are just nuts. So what I would do was email the State Attorney Generals office on all the states I would be passing through and ask what current laws applied. I normally got a reply in a day or two with the citations and a full quote on the law. I then printed these out and had them right next to my registration and proof of insurance. Just a suggestion.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:28 pm

Ozone wrote:This is great--we have a bus and modifications are underway.

What I can't seem to pin down is a list of the laws on modifications. Do we need to have seatbelts in our bus? The driver will have one, but do the back seats need restraints? If anyone knows an online source of this info, please post it here.

Thanks very much.

Short answer...yes...all occupants need belts. It varies from state to state whether its just driver and front seat passengers or all occupants that are required to wear them (a full list is in the trusty Trailer Life Campground/RV Park & Services Directory, pages 108-109) but Nevada is among the states requiring belts for everybody so might as well install them. Glad your bus is coming along!

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:32 pm

OH...and California and Nevada are also listed as allowing both radar/laser detectors and mobile scanners, which I'm bringing along this year to see what interesting tidbits can be picked up : )

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:30 am

Short answer...yes...all occupants need belts.

Um, i would check up on that one. Perhaps at your local DMV. I believe that there exists an exemption for buses - school buses - that allows for seats without restraints.

If you're in California you might scour http://www.dmv.ca.gov/
or even the CFRs (Code of Federal Regulations). That'd either be 23 CFR Federal Highway Administration or 33 CFR Department of Transportation.

It's a fucking HUGE database to search through but wade through both and you *might* come up with you exemption.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:35 am

Ya true Badger, there probably are exemptions for buses used in school transport. The list I have is for motorhome uses.

Ozone · Post by **Ozone** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:16 am

So we first-time bussers are coming along pretty well. We need to get our certifications taken care of, but we made a ton of progress. Thanks for the help and suggestions.

The last and biggest modification will be attaching a roof-rack. If anyone has suggestions on anchoring it, please share. We're making it out of angle iron and mounting it to six or eight window posts. Eating up drill bits and grinder wheels like crazy, but it's fun.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:12 pm

Excellent looking rig! One thing for sure, buses are built to last. Will watch for your camp out there!

School Bus Modifications--Legal Questions

School Bus Modifications--Legal Questions

Good Sam Good Sammy Get Down

seatbelts

seatbelts

Suggestion

Re: seatbelts

Thanks!