Is Burning Man dead?

Ashta · Post by **Ashta** » Fri May 28, 2010 7:46 am

Organized bike theft rings.
Nevada state laws.
Police enforcement on every corner.
Undercover narcotics officers ON MY BUS.
Drunken Fraternity Fucks in for the weekend (lets go make fun of those hippies, and see if we can get some hairy poon!)

Facebook albums.
Facebook groups.
Facebook announcements.
Facebook comments.
Facebook photos posted with no privacy settings.

THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of un-permitted photos surfacing online for the world to see....
It was said that if you're taking photos at Burning Man, and once you have them developed, you should show them to your family and friends (at your discretion) in the privacy of your own living room (or the like).

With the advent of public social media forums, and the fact that photos dont get developed anymore (in fact, they are just bits if easily copied information, now as opposed to a Physical Something) and careless privacy settings, I fear Burning Man is getting into the wrong hands.

I used to be so excited whenever I would begin telling my stories of Burning Man. Now I don't tell those stories at all. I dont want one additional person to show up there.
Is this selfish?

I have hope for the Human Person... but in the meantime, I can't help but wonder:

Is it dead?

What do you think?
Please PLEASE someone ease my mind about the demise of this great place...

sputnik · Post by **sputnik** » Fri May 28, 2010 7:53 am

Yes, it's dead.

Don't bother coming this year.

Ashta · Post by **Ashta** » Fri May 28, 2010 7:55 am

oh, that won't happen.

Fire_Moose · Post by **Fire_Moose** » Fri May 28, 2010 7:57 am

It's thriving, just different.

Start yer own event.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri May 28, 2010 8:05 am

if Burning Man is dead, I'm vacationing, participating, and partying, in the graveyard.

[youtube][/youtube]

memories are a great place to visit. but, as things change, you either go along, do your best..........or, sit in your chair and spank your monkey.........

rangerLEO · Post by **rangerLEO** » Fri May 28, 2010 8:09 am

it's only not dead because the LLC has an obligation to prop that stick up every year and take your money so yupsters can pretend to be anarchists for a few days each year.

it's only not dead because the group-think of the culture continues to convince several thousand people each year that volunteering their free labor is a path to personal development and artistry.

but it has:

BTW, i think there are NOT ENOUGH pictures of people at burning man out-there. people are so worried about these pictures - why? are you doing something that you wouldn't do at home? who will punish you if they see you naked on the playa? why do you let them have that kind of authority over you?

i'd LOVE to see the brand released into public domain so that you have endless number of Burning Man Gone Wild videos. maybe then people would stop doing things on the playa that they wouldn't do at home - then maybe they would stay home.

C.f.M. · Post by **C.f.M.** » Fri May 28, 2010 8:14 am

I definitely don't think it is the festival that I wanted to go to almost 20 years ago.

But, I do think there is enough of the "old spirit," that busts their ass to try and maintain the identity of art and community (as opposed to the techno tourists who show up for the weekend party).

Ashta · Post by **Ashta** » Fri May 28, 2010 8:20 am

RangerLeo, it's not for fear of persecution as a result of photos that I was addressing.
It is the advertising of a place to a demographic that feel they can use that one week to wig out: One Week(end) Burners who drive away in their SUV's and incorporate none of the values into their lives for the rest of the year. Or advertising to those who don't get the objective, and will misuse the trust and love that used to be safe there (such as the organized bike thieves).

I love this thing.

I hate to see it shit on.

Also: What if volunteering my free labour IS a path to my personal development and artistry?

rangerLEO · Post by **rangerLEO** » Fri May 28, 2010 8:55 am

Ashta, of course, i wasn't referring to you specifically... the nudity thing is why most people object to the pictures going public, and because they're behaving in ways that would embarrass them in their real-worlds.

the LLC has meant for burning man to increase in every way. that's why you see the ever increase of yahoos - they got the money for tickets, and that makes them friends of larry.

on 'volunteering'... meaning, within the infrastructure community (ie DPW, cafe village, greeters, lamplighters, etc etc etc etc). keep in mind that burning man is for-profit corporation. your volunteer efforts may please you, but they primarily benefit the corporation by helping to make burning man a greater spectacle. it's this spectacle that attracts greater press and attention and increases ticket sales (more yahoos).

furthermore, it's the volunteerism that is at the core of them problem. the volunteers make up over 10% of the city's population, and create a caste system that divides the community between them & everyone else (non-volunteers). every unnecessary volunteer (pretty much all of them) serves to diminish the need for everyone else to be radically self-reliant, and thus dependent on the infrastructure. their bloated numbers and unnecessary presence gives the LLC purpose: to manage all of these people.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri May 28, 2010 9:05 am

So Ashta, in essence you're complaining that too many people you perceive as "outsiders" know the secret handshake to "your" exclusive event?

Ashta · Post by **Ashta** » Fri May 28, 2010 9:14 am

In essence, yes, AntiM, I suppose that's what I'm doing. The poisonous thieves with clouded ideals that actively counter the objective put forth by the community, can absolutely be referred to as "outsiders" if you like.

AKAparttime · Post by **AKAparttime** » Fri May 28, 2010 9:20 am

rangerLEO wrote:Ashta, of course, i wasn't referring to you specifically... the nudity thing is why most people object to the pictures going public, and because they're behaving in ways that would embarrass them in their real-worlds.

the LLC has meant for burning man to increase in every way. that's why you see the ever increase of yahoos - they got the money for tickets, and that makes them friends of larry.

on 'volunteering'... meaning, within the infrastructure community (ie DPW, cafe village, greeters, lamplighters, etc etc etc etc). keep in mind that burning man is for-profit corporation. your volunteer efforts may please you, but they primarily benefit the corporation by helping to make burning man a greater spectacle. it's this spectacle that attracts greater press and attention and increases ticket sales (more yahoos).

furthermore, it's the volunteerism that is at the core of them problem. the volunteers make up over 10% of the city's population, and create a caste system that divides the community between them & everyone else (non-volunteers). every unnecessary volunteer (pretty much all of them) serves to diminish the need for everyone else to be radically self-reliant, and thus dependent on the infrastructure. their bloated numbers and unnecessary presence gives the LLC purpose: to manage all of these people.

( Every unnecessary volunteer ) ?
So what are you saying ? volunteer's are not necessary ? or just the cool one's, or the one's that work harder are OK? Or just the one's that get it?
Dude it's back to Ranger 101 for you.

Ranger Part Time
Mentor team
Training team

Post by **AntiM** » Fri May 28, 2010 9:26 am

There were bike thieves, organized theft rings, yahoos and Nevada LEOs out there when I started going in 2001. How far back are you thinking?

BTW, when I went to Burning Man the first time, I'd only seen it on the official site, knew no burners, nothing. I just wanted to go see the art.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri May 28, 2010 9:34 am

Ashta wrote:In essence, yes, AntiM, I suppose that's what I'm doing. The poisonous thieves with clouded ideals that actively counter the objective put forth by the community, can absolutely be referred to as "outsiders" if you like.

I'm curious, is there a specific event which happened to sour your attitude, or is this a general malaise?

Re: bike thieves. We've had two bikes stolen: one was taken late in the event. The next year it showed up at a theme camp down the block. Genius recognized it, his packing sticker was still on it, as was his lock, wound around the frame. So that wasn't organized bike thieves, that was a returning burner in a theme camp. The other was my trike, parked on front of Ranger HQ in a massive duststorm, left unattended momentarily. It was found around the corner, abandoned in the parking area behind HQ. I would think an organized thief would have not made the mistake of trying to ride off on it in a white-out?

I tend not to notice the LEOs since I so rarely do anything bust-worthy.

Ashta · Post by **Ashta** » Fri May 28, 2010 9:42 am

Im not thinking within any type of time frame.

I understand the context of evolution regarding this event is completely relative. Although LEO's, Narcs, thieves and yahoo's (poison to BM's values of radical self reliance, community, and free love) will always have some kind of presence, my point lies within the prominence of those things in comparison to ten years ago. AntiM, you should be able to identify the increase of this poison, being a seasoned Burner.

Can you honestly say the event is unchanged in this regard?

The point of this post is to gain insight from other participants in relation to the exploitative vehicle of social networking sites like Facebook contributing to the gradual demise of Burning Man's core values.
Can anyone offer this?

Ashta · Post by **Ashta** » Fri May 28, 2010 9:50 am

consider yourself lucky.

I dont wish to discuss whatever event may have or may not have happened to myself or those I know of in this forum. The only importance, is there is an increase of the crap that is against the values of Burning Man. Value's I try to incorporate in my life every day, and seek on Playa every year.

I want so badly to be proven wrong this year.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri May 28, 2010 9:54 am

Of course it is not unchanged, but then, my viewpoint, my way of looking at things, has also evolved.

So, has Facebook changed the event? Or would exposure to regionals and local burners account for the increase in population?

I have met more clueless newbs who want to be burners, far more than I have met yahoos and party-frat types. Both kinds can be educated if you make the attempt. My personally most hated "type" of attendee? Rainbow Family types mooching, and I've had a few wander into camp, bother me far, far more than a guy there for three days to ogle beer and drink titties. Maybe that's just me, because no matter what we did with the dippy space girl, she kept asking everyone around for food and drugs. Sat in our camp and shrieked like a hyena and was very confused about being tossed out on her tie-dyed ass. A drunken frat boy would understand being tossed out!

Yeah, I'm stereotyping Rainbows, but the few I've interacted with personally on the playa have always been asking, not giving. And they are the ones least likely to be using Facebook!

Ashta · Post by **Ashta** » Fri May 28, 2010 9:58 am

That's a pretty good point! I hadn't thought about that.

Fire_Moose · Post by **Fire_Moose** » Fri May 28, 2010 10:23 am

"exploitative vehicle of social networking sites like Facebook contributing to the gradual demise of Burning Man's core values. "

Social networking sites are contributing to the gradual demise of society and the human race. But ch'yoo know what? It's not changing

Ashta · Post by **Ashta** » Fri May 28, 2010 10:30 am

Fire_Moose, you just said it.

I'm prepared to consider this viewpoint fully.
Daniel Pinchbeck (Return of the Quetzalcoatl, Breaking Open the Head) talks about the shift in human consciousness, and particularly the internet's role in this. It's true there is a change, and things will never be the same as we knew them.

In considering this thought and applying it to BM as I knew it, the postal worker just arrived with our tickets.

Some things never change, though. And I look forward to seeing you all on the Playa this year.

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Fri May 28, 2010 10:34 am

Burning Man is dead.

Long live Burning Man!

2009 was the best of my eight years so far.
It just keeps getting better for me. Is it different than it was in 2002? Unquestionably. It's much better now. Frat boys and LE have always been a factor, but theft rings are mostly the stuff of myth. I do agree that drainbows annoy me more. I've seen people who came to the event expecting Mardi Gras "get it" before the end of the week (in fact, weekend, at a regional). I've never, however, seen a rainbow have the same epiphany.

Am I the only one who thinks more and more of the new people are "getting it" these days? Last year felt like the lowest yahoo factor I've experienced, and the neophytes' questions here on the board are pretty promising for this year as well.

BTW, I don't volunteer for the ORG. I volunteer for the community.

Forgive brevity or formatting problems; sent from my mobile.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Fri May 28, 2010 10:38 am

One of the very few absolute truths is that life is change. You cannot have one without the other. Long Live Burning Man!!!!!!!!

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Fri May 28, 2010 10:39 am

Ashta wrote: you should be able to identify the increase of this poison, being a seasoned Burner.

I wonder if you have considered the way you keep setting your self apart from the general population. I think it is valuable to consider that everyone in the world is trying to get bye in their own way just like you and I are. Everybody has motivations to have fun and generally move forward in life. When these interests seem to conflict with yours perhaps it is a time to open up a little and mesh with the flow instead of walling your self off in to a more specific niche/clique.

The event will always change just as people and cities change over time.

Just be glad that Dr. Megavolt is coming back and take a deep breath and smile at everyone. You are going to have a great time!

Root Society and Opulent Temple techno loving- law abiding- volunteering- theme camp operator- here to give and freak out for a week- me.

Post by **Sham** » Fri May 28, 2010 10:44 am

It's like Woodstock XX. Not the same as the first, but there are hints of the past.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri May 28, 2010 10:54 am

I wouldn't stereotype the rainbows too much.

The hardcore ones that make it happen, wouldn't be caught dead at burning man because they see it as too cushy soft and commercial.
The ones that I know, that are at the burn, don't stand out.

There is a distinct variety of types there though.
But even the laziest have to have some hardiness.
The one I went to, most people hiked in six to ten miles with all gear and it wasn't an easy location to get to in the first place.
They consider being able to drive to camp an unbelievable luxury.
By choice, they deal with a great deal of police harassment and often violence.

On the other hand, when I was riding out, the guy asked me if I had any gas money.
When I told him, of course, he was surprised.
He said no one asking for a ride wanted to chip in.
That wasn't what pissed him off though.
It was that they weren't even trying.
When a group at the gate asked for a ride, they wouldn't even panhandle with him somewhere.
He left them there.

And he had people riding in with him steal from him.
It turned out he was really poor himself.
Homeless,traveling across the country looking for a new place to settle down, he was an orphan and a recovering addict.
He had plenty of struggles of his own.
And he was finding something he really needed at the event.
Yet he had utter contempt for the people like those at the gate.
Didn't consider them rainbow people at all, just scum.

He was down to working odd jobs and begging to get across the country.
I put him up and helped him out as well as I could, and he continued east.
I hope he found safe harbor.

The camp I was in, had the people that did all the prep and had been there for months, in the hottest place I've ever been. (I know, who would think it would be the fucking mountains of arkansas?)
All with no bureaucracy, no funding.
All at huge personal cost.
Some of the toughest, most determined motherfuckers I've ever met, only exception being some army rangers and spooks.
But they'll never come to burning man.

rangerLEO · Post by **rangerLEO** » Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am

AKAparttime:
( Every unnecessary volunteer ) ?
So what are you saying ? volunteer's are not necessary ?

unnecessary volunteers are NOT necessary.

the boom in volunteerism began in response the the sheriff taking the gate money in 97. broke, the LLC couldn't handle the workload required to keep the event going, so they tapped the willing community, still buzzing off the previous 5 years or so, to volunteer. at that time, it was just about getting to 98, and the volunteers were necessary to carry on the event. by july 2001, they had 2,000 volunteers and a population of 25,000.

now they are not broke, and they can afford to pay the necessary people to carry on the event. 'unnecessary volunteers' includes 99% of all volunteers. the 1% remains as an exception. some people would incidentally volunteer in order to serve a necessary purpose.

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am

AntiM wrote:I tend not to notice the LEOs since I so rarely do anything bust-worthy.

Just a little comment since I'm in the same boat... We all break the law in a thousand ways a day. All it takes is a police officer looking at you and deciding they want to bother giving you a ticket.

I usually like most of the stuff that police do so I'm not to peeved with them most of the time. When something really goes wrong that's what the police are there for and I like that. I think that the narcotics/underaged officers really takes away from the "free gifting" thing but really.. it's the law, don't do drugs with strangers, don't give alcohol to minors. I apply the same rules back home. Personally, I just don't like the undercover officers... It's sneaky and underhanded..

big baby jesus · Post by **big baby jesus** » Fri May 28, 2010 11:26 am

So what?

No disrespect intended, but things change. I'm new to BM, but I've been a part of lots of things that changed, due to popularity, technology or mindset.

Last year was my first burn and I had an amazing time and was moved by the whole experience. Was my first experience different than yours? Yeah, I can imagine it's more commercial/organized than in the past, but I'm not complaining and I don't feel slighted. I saw the people you're complaining about and I knew they were just there for the party and the bewbies, but I didn't care. I was having fun, they were having fun and I see no reason to place value judgements on their time and how they chose to spend it.

I woke up early one morning and went exploring. I hadn't been to Center Camp yet and grabbed some coffee and just sat and took it all in. I started talking to a guy near me, then another and then the fourth guy joined in. We talked for almost five hours about life, family, work and I've never felt more connected to the human race. No one was naked. No one was in costume. And no one said anything profound, but it was the openness of the conversation that was so moving. No bullshit or pretensions. You couldn't get that type of interaction any where but Black Rock City.

Radical self expression isn't about wearing costumes or being nekkid. It's about being who your are; on purpose and with a vengance.

The world is full of people looking forward to the good old days. Move on.

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Fri May 28, 2010 11:39 am

big baby jesus wrote:Radical self expression isn't about wearing costumes or being nekkid. It's about being who your are; on purpose and with a vengance.

Thank you. I couldn't say it better.

I like the art and the costume and the neeeeeekkkid too but I go there for the human interaction. I am a day time person when I'm out there. I go there for the artists, designers, welders, engineers, what-evers.. I don't go there to do mushrooms and screw college students. I have absolutely no problem finding what I'm looking for and the police have no problem with me for what I do.

My problem? I brew beer. I share beer. And I'm perpetually paranoid about some undercover cop busting me. I, personally, obey that law with a vengeance but I don't think it's a good law. If you have the right to vote for your country, or die for your country you damn well should have the right to drink to your country!

/me gets off the soap box

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Fri May 28, 2010 11:49 am

gyre wrote:I wouldn't stereotype the rainbows too much.

Thank you,
Last year I camped with 4 Rainbow gatherers. I got a little tired of their tinctures and alters of protection but they knew how to take care of themselves and they respected people and the environment. I make fun of them to no end but they did contribute to Burning Man. Just not the way I did. It takes all kinds.