Question about pre-fab barns/sheds/buildings etc

[dadara]

I'm working on a big interactive art project. I would like to have the project inside a small building so people can only enter through one door and you have a controllable environment. I could build a new building, but a more practical solution might be that I realized there are a lot of pre-fab barns/sheds/buildings etc.
I would need one with a footprint of approx 7 x 10 meters (20 x 30 feet) 12 feet high . I can imagine those are expensive, but might be pre-owned, maybe somebody has a structure they don't use which could be used during the burn and then returned etc. Maybe someone has an existing structure that could be used for a project. Or maybe someone would know a better option.


And to answer an unasked question: I'm from Amsterdam, so as a foreigner finding the right places and people in the States is a bit difficult, so I really hope this forum might help!

For some info on previous international Playa art projects of mine:

http://www.dadara.nl

[Risky]

dadara rocks!

[Token]

Your no stranger here, tell us more!

Three carports will give you the 20 x 30 feet but the hight would only be ~ 8 feet. The carports are ~ $200 each.

You could try to get extra leg poles to raise the height but then you have to deal with making tarp walls and such.

Most prefab stuff strong enough to withstand Playa winds in the dimenssions you seek will be several thousands of $.

Cheapest way is the carport option. Next is building it from raw lumber with a couple experienced framers.

I'd go the carport route.

Welcome back old man.

[dadara]

Three carports will give you the 20 x 30 feet but the height would only be ~ 8 feet. The carports are ~ $200 each.

You could try to get extra leg poles to raise the height but then you have to deal with making tarp walls and such.

That's a pretty useful suggestion.
Actually it really needs to be a building, so I would need to cover them with wooden walls. Since you seem to know my stuff, you should know that I like to build real things, no tarps as walls :D

Most prefab stuff strong enough to withstand Playa winds in the dimenssions you seek will be several thousands of $.

I realize this, but also know from previous experience this is a great community and know that if I keep trying hard enough, maybe somebody might come with the perfect solution and something prefab might become available.

I have experienced Playa miracles before. As they say 99% work and 1% luck.

[gaminwench]

You, sir, ARE a playa miracle!!!

[dadara]

You, sir, ARE a playa miracle!!!

But I am NOTHING without you (the community)!

By the way I am also going to spam you with my Facebook DADARA page:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/DADARA/60701188430

I think I might use that one a lot when it gets closer to the stage of realization to keep everyone posted (it worked greatly in Berlin, when I destroyed Dreamyourtopia with sledgehammers and chainsaws in an old swimmingpool)

[Ugly Dougly]

I think that Home Depot offers prefab wooden garages.

[dadara]

I think that Home Depot offers prefab wooden garages.

Would those be in sizes 20 x 30 feet and 12 feet high?
I know you Americans love big cars, so maybe.

If someone would know that answer, please let me know.
The nearest Home Depot from my studio is approximately 10.000 miles away.

thanks!

[ibdave]

Call these guys or play around with the online quote tool... But for your job I'd like to be in the room when you call and tell them. "You want what, where and then taken down?" "I'll have to get back to you about this if that's ok?"

http://www.tuffshed.com/locator.cfm?StoreID=440

[motskyroonmatick]

Perhaps a pole barn is what would work. Sort of like how the ice vending buildings are constructed. Would not need to be that tall and would be quite strong if well put together.

[professorzed]

A pole barn would work. I think a pole barn is the same thing as a Quonset hut?

I was going to suggest making a Maxi monkey hut.

You are probably already familiar with these since a lot of people use these as shade structures at Burning Man. You could easily make it to the size and height that you need, for under $100.

http://tribes.tribe.net/shadegeeks/phot ... 85478c1593

You would just take as many pieces of PVC as you need to make the hut to the size that you need, and sleeve them together.

The walls would be tarp though, so...

You might want to consider the 'big brother' of the Monkey hut, which is the Quonset hut. This is a half-cylinder made out of corrugated metal. They were used extensively by the U.S. military in WWII. You see these in use all over North America and Australia as garages, workshops, barns, etc.

You can get kits that you can assemble for a few thousand dollars. Here is a link to some used ones (possibly) for sale.

http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.a ... b817b3250c

You MIGHT be able to arrange it so that the Quonset hut found/ came from a good home in the communities nearby. A new barn or shed for a farmer perhaps.

Of course, the metal skin would get baking hot in the sun. It would be like being inside of an oven inside during the day. You could cover it with a Maxi monkey hut and a tarp, to keep it out of the direct sun.

I'm also wondering how quick it would be to put up and take back down.

You could make a 'Maxi-monkey hut' to the precise height, width and length that you needed, and still cover the frame with solid wood planks if you wanted to. Just link the wood planks together with say, old bicycle inner tubes or steel strapping. You can get the wood planks for free if you used old wooden shipping pallets. For some reason, companies throw these things away. 2 x 4s might be easier to use though. At this point you have a giant barrel.

You can then cover the structure with a tarp for additional cooling.

I would consider making the wooden walls only 2 meters high. You could also have a frame of wooden walls covered with a tarp roof. Not as much weight, not as much money, not as much work to put up or take down. Cooler and safer too.

You'd need to make (plywood?) walls for the front and back to contain the interior, which would make it a Quonset hut. You would also have to add a fan at either end, or ensure some form of air circulation inside. Otherwise, it would get unbearably hot inside.

In fact, I would have TWO frame structures with TWO tarp coverings for the roof, one on top of the other. The top one would be reflective aluminet, the one beneath it would be agricultural shade cloth. Find a way to have some circulation of the layer of air between the two layers, such as a solar powered fan.

:::::OR::::

Take this basic design, and scale it up to your needs.

http://www.playatech.com/index.php?dept ... =05Plazebo

[gyre]

You might try to rent a prefab building.

[dadara]

You might want to consider the 'big brother' of the Monkey hut, which is the Quonset hut. This is a half-cylinder made out of corrugated metal. They were used extensively by the U.S. military in WWII. You see these in use all over North America and Australia as garages, workshops, barns, etc.

You can get kits that you can assemble for a few thousand dollars. Here is a link to some used ones (possibly) for sale.

http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.a ... b817b3250c

You MIGHT be able to arrange it so that the Quonset hut found/ came from a good home in the communities nearby. A new barn or shed for a farmer perhaps.

I like the Quonset Hut idea. I clicked on that link, but that wasn't a for sale site. I googled a bit, but it's impossible to get any quotes without a US phone nr, they won't send by mail and then again if I am only going to use it in the desert I would be stuck with a building and would have to find someone to sell it to, before leaving the US, which seems pretty impossible in that short time span.

So the way I look at it now is that I should find someone via this eplaya who wants to buy a pre-fab building and by letting me use it as well, could save money on the price because I would pay part of it. or someone who owns a pre-fab building would be willing to rent it to me, or someone has a pre-fab building lying around which is not in use and I could use it, or......or......

You might try to rent a prefab building.

Those seem really expensive and for commercial use. I even found prefab churches. But maybe you know a site which would have pre-fab buildings specifically used for events, not real houses?

[gyre]

They range from sheds that barely stand up to large buildings and homes that are all steel, but appear traditional.
And there are even prefab wood and glass homes from germany and so on, and innovative modular homes from california.
Everything is negotiable, especially in a slow economy.
There is a complete disassembled building on a trailer here on craigslist.

If you buy, you're shooting for as close to scrap value as possible.
It has happened that people have bought complete buildings from scrapyards.

Something without an interior would be much easier to rent.
I would start with reno companies and work further out from there.
And look at craiglist for companies and individuals too.

Auctions may be the cheapest, but the most difficult for you to work with.

There might even be an interesting architectural firm interested in being part of your project.


An early steel prefab house, the Lustron.
Fuller based some of his houses on agricultural or industrial steel buildings.



Skype should be able to solve your phone and number issue.

http://www.steelbuilding.com/buildings/ ... s_main.htm
http://www.olympiabuildings.com/residen ... ldings.htm

I like Siegal's stuff.
May give you some ideas.
http://www.designmobile.com/

[Bob]

Phone the Burning Man office and ask who their vendor is for temporary buildings.

[professorzed]

[quote](20 x 30 feet), 12 feet high[/quote]

Well, what I was thinking is that you might be able to split the cost of a new Quonset hut structure with a farmer in the surrounding area. Gerlach, Empire, Reno, Winnemuca, etc.

I'm wondering now about a grain silo? I see grain silos that are falling down pretty frequently on country drives. I'm sure farmers would let you have them for free, if you were willing to do the (difficult, dangerous) work of tearing one down. I wonder if you could cut one of these in half?

There are a lot of sheds, barns, etc. that are on their last legs. The owners don't want them anymore, and they are and essentially 'free' for the taking. This is also true for houses and entire barns. Actually taking them down, transporting them and reassembling them is the difficult and expensive part.

Another thing that occurred to me was wooden boats in the scrapyard. The overturned hull of a large boat makes a pretty good barn. This was the fate of the Mayflower after it landed on Plymouth rock. I don't know if you will be able to find one of the size you are looking for, but...

Cut a hole in the stern, some holes for light and ventilation and there you are. You'd probably have to haul the thing to the playa from San Francisco though.

The advantage of a wooden structure is that you can burn it at the end of the week. Very little to take out again. The disadvantages are that a shed that is too crappy for a farmer to want anymore might have some structural problems that make it unsuitable, such as termites, wood rot, etc.

I see temporary 'quonset hut' types of structures used as temporary greenhouses set up in grocery supermarket parking lots here (in Canada). I usually see them up on parking lots everywhere for about a month, then they disappear. I figure they have to either be rentals, or whomever they belong to wouldn't mind renting them out during the 'off season'.

These greenhouses have steel ribs, and they are approximately 20 feet x 40 feet, and 12 feet high. They are designed to be quickly and easily assembled and disassembled by unskilled labor. They are normally covered with a thick sheet of light plastic, but you could probably cover them with something else.

If you insist on having a rigid skin, I would definitely recommend using something like translucent/ opaque corrugated PLASTIC roofing instead of the corrugated METAL that is used for a quonset hut.

The plastic would be much lighter and cheaper than the metal, much easier to assemble and disassemble, and definitely not as hot.

The only reason to consider using metal at all would be it's durability, but hey...you are only going to be there in the desert for a week, right?

http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infx ... anels.html

There are some on the 'Shade Geeks' tribe that talk about using old PVC billboards as a shade structure. The cost is free. The old advertisements might make for an interesting collage. If this stuff is anything like chloroplast, it should be rigid but flexible, light yet strong. Also, you can just send this stuff to landfill when you are done with it, if you want to. That's where it was going before you rescued it. Whatever you do, don't burn it.

http://tribes.tribe.net/shadegeeks/thre ... 17e74f0eef

Have you thought about the possibility of using a geodesic dome? The one you'd want would probably be around 30 x 30 x 15 feet high. They are cheaper, portable, easier to assemble and disassemble, easier to transport, and more attractive and distinctive IMHO than a Quonset hut. I have even seen some Burners selling used ones.

[madmatt]

These are expensive but super cool

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=in ... a=N&tab=wi

[mdmf007]

My construction estimator says it is 2200.00 in materials at average rates to build a Box 20x30 feet.

TJI joists span the roof 12 foot high walls with 5/8 inch plywood exterior. Man door as well.

Drop a PM if your interested this stuff is all in stock.

[Token]

Maybe you should talk to these guys:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=33411

They are already hauling a bunch of lumber out there so a collaboration might work out.

Or you could just storm one of their buildings, make a hostile takover and become a squatter. That could be fun.

[professorzed]

The Megalopolis idea is the best one yet.

They are already purchasing and transporting the lumber, they have an international fund-raising effort in place, and they are looking for artists.

It looks like they have everything they need for their downtown, but they could use a commerce center, or a bank. Wow. That would be fun to set on fire.

[dadara]

Maybe you should talk to these guys:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=33411

They are already hauling a bunch of lumber out there so a collaboration might work out.

Or you could just storm one of their buildings, make a hostile takover and become a squatter. That could be fun.

That might be a pretty cool statement, now that squatting has become (since a few days) officially illegal in the Netherlands

I also want to use this post as an excuse to post the Dadara facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/DADARA/60701188430
I definitely will use that page to communicate stuff about the project so those interested should "like" it.

[dadara]

Maybe you should talk to these guys:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=33411

They are already hauling a bunch of lumber out there so a collaboration might work out.

Or you could just storm one of their buildings, make a hostile takover and become a squatter. That could be fun.

I actually just looked at the site and it seems a very good contact and reading a bit more and seeing they are from New Zealand and seemed heavily involved with Fred Hagemeisters Black Rock International Burner Hostel ( I love Fred, he's an amazing guy!) I might even know them.

Time to check them out.

Thanks, Token

[some seeing eye]

If you are on the open playa, you might consider two or three cargo containers as the walls. They will need to be in BRC anyway, likely empty for the week. DPW/departments use them extensively, you just need them placed for your project, rather than parked outside the neighborhoods. You should talk to them stat as moving around containers for this would be a major deviation from routine. The roof depends on how sealed you want and the cost. There are many examples of cargo container prefab construction if you want inspiration - http://www.fabprefab.com/fabfiles/containerbayhome.htm

[rodiponer]

I like shipping containers. I recently bought two old 8x20's for $1200/each, which fit on a single truck. The 40' long ones also come in a taller size-- 9'6", I think, which might be more of the height you are looking for.

The sides are thin enough steel that they are easy to cut doors/windows in with common power tools and weld with a small machine.

If you can't schedule a forklift or crane, a tilt bed truck can pickup and deliver containers by itself.

[dadara]

I like shipping containers. I recently bought two old 8x20's for $1200/each, which fit on a single truck. The 40' long ones also come in a taller size-- 9'6", I think, which might be more of the height you are looking for.

The sides are thin enough steel that they are easy to cut doors/windows in with common power tools and weld with a small machine.

If you can't schedule a forklift or crane, a tilt bed truck can pickup and deliver containers by itself.

Containers are definitely an interesting option and I could think about a cool looking design to come up with a solution for the roof in between and incorporate the container aesthetics into it all.

But there is a disadvantage. because I am a foreigner and would be in the US for a few months maximum beforehand and leaving shortly after the project I would be stuck with a bunch of containers. And those are not the kind of things that you can throw away in a garbage bin afterwards........

Also that means the costs would be pretty high without any use for them afterwards. So I should try to find someone on here who could be interested in buying a few containers and would let me use them for a rent or someone who would buy the containers together with me and then afterwards would get to keep them.

I am pretty happy with this thread because it offers a lot of inspiration for my thoughts and creativity and hopefully at some point someone might also offer a concrete solution.

Luckily I still have time and am happy to start this search early. I have already been in contact with some people reacting and sending me PM's.

thanks everyone !

[professorzed]

I think you can rent them. You don't HAVE to buy them. Still, even if you do rent them, the cost of transporting them there...and back again....would be expensive. It would also be a shame to ship them out there empty.

So, maybe the Megalopolis project will be bringing all their stuff in shipping containers, and you could use some of theirs.

[some seeing eye]

My suggestion was to borrow them from among these already on the playa. The DPW uses a large number. If you want to rent something exotic, a refrigerated container could be cool, but noisy, and you might need to refuel on playa. There are also large generator cargo containers, like 450KW!

http://www.evergreen-marine.com/tei1/im ... (2PPG).jpg

Buying and cutting up a container for a one week event is pretty wasteful in my opinion.

[rodiponer]

You could recycle the containers instead of trying to sell them to someone else. I think scrap steel is currently around $0.10/pound. 20' containers weigh about 5,000 pounds, and 40' containers are around 8,000 pounds. The wood floor is pretty thick and heavy, and so would not count towards the buy back price. But I agree with Professorz, shipping would be ridiculous since each big container would need it's own truck from Reno and back. Wood is so nice, how it burns in the end...

Wood... Shipping containers... That has me thinking-- maybe you are thinking too much of how to make this in the United States. Wouldn't it be funny (and oh-so-conceptual ) to make an 'art factory' in a 20' shipping container filled with sheets of plywood and a home made CNC router? Then you ship the container to Gerlach from Europe, open the doors, and start making the jigsaw pieces that will be your construct? Maybe even make a gantry attachment that fits cans of spray paint, so that it would autopaint the plywood as it cuts it. If you design the pieces with loose tolerances you can use very inexpensive parts to make the machine. Then store the machine in Reno, and for 2012 you just fly back with new cutting files, restock it with plywood and paint, and bring it back to the playa for your next installation.

Just an off the wall idea.

[dadara]

Wood... Shipping containers... That has me thinking-- maybe you are thinking too much of how to make this in the United States. Wouldn't it be funny (and oh-so-conceptual ) to make an 'art factory' in a 20' shipping container filled with sheets of plywood and a home made CNC router? Then you ship the container to Gerlach from Europe, open the doors, and start making the jigsaw pieces that will be your construct?

in 2002 I shipped a container with all the prefab parts to constructs a wooden threemaster: the Fools Ark.
http://www.dadara.nl/sculptures-and-ins ... /Fools-Ark
I have been there and definitely don't feel like doing it again. The "best" part was waiting for the container to get released from customs with a crew of 15 people from the Netherlands, calling customs every day and getting "it might get released" every day as an answer for a week and a half.

But with the Fools Ark it was a necessary part of the conceptual journey; "Searching for the Hidden Treasure, they embarked on a long and dangerous journey, crossing the Transatlantic Red Ocean, outclevering the creatures of Dragons Lake, barely avoiding crashing into Mount Titanic."

But this time the project will deal with art and money where today’s hyper-investment in art seems to be an implicit attempt to overwhelm it, demonstrating in this way that money is superior to art.

So the fundraising will be part of the project, but shipping a container won't be