Evaporation idea

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:38 am

Idea: By using towels to wick up water from an evap pool, the grey water can evaporate much faster, mainly due to wind.

I'm thinking that if one end of the towel is weighted and the other end has caribeeners so the towel can be dunked in the ick then hung over the pool to dry, would that work? Any thoughts? Any fabric suggestions? A rope and bungees could be set up to keep ones hands off the towel.

The black bottomed pool idea just don't work that great.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:53 am

Turns out UtiliKilts have just the right combination of wickiness and absorbancy.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:32 am

hey bob - what material are they made from? I checked the site, a $25 kilt is a bit too expensive to use as a rag.

there's gotta be a good joke in there about kilts being absorbant...

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:37 pm

Tried the towel thing. It worked fair. The towel filled with mud. Did'nt even take care of one person. I'm thinking of up tec-ing the idea. A drying rack, towels woven zigzag on the rungs, set this in a drip pan. towels end in drip pan, cover the whole thing with black plastic, make an openng in the top, the opening will allow water to be put in and water to escape. You could tape a frame over the black pastic and drape a clear plastic over that frame. The clear would have to stand off the black an inch or two and tape the clear around the opening. The suns heat would be traped inside the clear plastic. The black plastic would obsorb the heat. As the air inside/around the towels expands it will move up. Carrying droplets of water with it. Weave the towels in such manner they will catch or hit allof them. The drip pan would be for catching over flow from the towels.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:49 pm

I don't know if I get the woven towel part. What I do get is to make a heat chamber to roast the towels in. Black plastic to gather heat and clear to block out dust.

Towels are absorbant but they're probably not made to _let_ _go_ of water.

so... make the shroud for the shower out of fabric that wicks up water, then surround that shroud (with air gaps) in black plastic? just thinking online here...

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:50 am

mmmmmm.......roast towels.........

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:44 am

DeadlyKungFu wrote:I don't know if I get the woven towel part. What I do get is to make a heat chamber to roast the towels in. Black plastic to gather heat and clear to block out dust.

Towels are absorbant but they're probably not made to _let_ _go_ of water.

so... make the shroud for the shower out of fabric that wicks up water, then surround that shroud (with air gaps) in black plastic? just thinking online here...

/\
Great idea. I have a couple 5x15 cotton paint traps.

As in "woven" I mean to run them back and forth through the rongs of a drying rack. It might take some fooling around with to get th best advantage. The only vent i would have would be an intake close to the bottom. Got the idea from Mother Earth mag. 25 years ago. It was for a passive sole air mover thorugh a vent. The vent pipe was black stove pipe. Them a clear outside tube. The clear on was sealed around the black pipe. So the only place for the captured heat in the clear can go is through the wall of the of the black one. Heated/expanded air go's up. If you are venting a room. As the expanded air go's up it is replaced by the warm ceiling air from the room. Over the years the idea has helped me understand how to cool my home. I do this b opening and closeing vents during the hot days.

Any more ideas out there?????

dman · Post by **dman** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:04 pm

OK, here's a thought. Back in my BSA days we used to make evaporative refrigerators.

Basically these consisted of a pan (say 18x24x4) filled with water that was hung above the ground about 5 feet. Shelves were hung from the bottom of the pan. The shelves and pan were then surrounded by a sheet of burlap (the outside of the refrigerator, if you will) , with the upper edge of the burlap curled up & over the lip of the pan so that water got wicked by the burlap. The idea was that the burlap would thus get wet and the evaporation of this water would then cool the burlap and whatever was on the shelves inside the burlap wrapping. As I recall, they worked, but only for about a 10 degree differential from the outside air (everything being in the shade).

So, you might want to look into wicking as a means of distributing the grey water onto the towels or whatever will act as the surface area expander on the towel racks.

Indeed, if sanitation were not an issue, something like this might be useful around ice chests to lower their exposure.

YMMV

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:20 pm

Dealing with grey water through neat technical devices has been a hobby of mine at BRC over the years. For instance, my latest idea was to use a freznel lens to vaporize the grey water. However, I am going to try the simple solution (suggested by many) of having a few barrels (with bleach or something inside) and hauling my grey water back home this year. YMMV - Jafe

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:33 pm

dragonfly Jafe wrote:Dealing with grey water through neat technical devices has been a hobby of mine at BRC over the years. For instance, my latest idea was to use a freznel lens to vaporize the grey water. However, I am going to try the simple solution (suggested by many) of having a few barrels (with bleach or something inside) and hauling my grey water back home this year. YMMV - Jafe

/\
A little thread drift here. BUt I also will be taking most of my water home. How ever I intend to reuse (filteres & treated) bath water. Dish/slop water will be treated and hualed home differently). Would like to compare note on the playa this year.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:39 pm

dman wroter some good stuff that I had forgotten.

His design calls for the water to drip down and ito a pan. Only problem i see is dust cloging the fabric. Thanks dman, I put that back in my brain file.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:21 pm

sorry for the thread drift.

physics says evaporation is a function of area, pressure, and temperature - which is why I mentioned heating the pond with a freznel lens. Otherwise we can't do much about pressure and temperature (although decreasing the surface tension might help - though all the soap probably does that already)

So double the area you double the evaporation. Your idea has merit - in fact I have tried it and it helps.

#1 should be the biggest pan diameter you can afford. Ideally you want a .1" depth of water evenly spread. I recommend 5-10 sq.ft. per person minimum.

#1a is to add strips to increase the area. Drape them in the water, cotton (the heavier the better, wicking is a function of cross sectional area, and they will move less in the wind) works well, there may be a better modern cloth. See how far the water wicks in the material you use, and go a bit longer than that. strips should be 3-4" wide and spaced so that wind can move through them. They should be spaced in a single row perpendicular to the wind.

#2 should be setting up your pond on the prevailing wind side of your camp, or where ever you can get the prevaling wind to best blow over your pond. Also good to use 2 sheets of plywood to direct 3x the wind over your pond.

#3 could be (haven't tried this one yet) usings a small 12v water pump to spray water over a bed sheet suspended vertically perpindicular (maybe with a spill rope) to the prevailing wind. Be sure to use good anchors!

there was another earlier thread where someone suggested using a wall with horizontal ridges (like siding in reverse) that would act as catch pockets. then pump water up to the top and dribble it over the wall (which of course would be flat black) back into the pond.

most important, make sure people do not abuse the capacity limits - a full evap pond on sunday is no fun.

ymmv - Jafe

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:34 pm

good stuff all around!!

freznel lens - ooooohhh i like!!!

the main problem as I see with wind drying is seperating the dust from the wind, playa mud is nasty tenacious stuff, grey mud... blech...

I was also considering ther idea of misting it into the air, but I don't know how sanitary it would be (poor neighbors) and if that would just be the rube-goldberg way of mooping the grey water into mud.

So far I'm thinking of an open topped pyramid whose walls have 3 layers, and outer clear layer (let sun in, retain heat), an inner layer of black cloth and another clear layer next to the bather of clear plastic. The black cloth goes to the ground and the some while the plastic has a gap to encourage air flow. Some sort of an A-framed lip on the top edge (like on chimnies) could keep dust from entering the top and let water out. Would it be better to use whatever cloth but use black plastic to draw in heat? Man.. a freznel lens just sitting there heating up the water would be too cool, talk about a great way to use the elements! Put one wall on hinges for the bather to enter and exit. Good thing is that it can be built down here and quickly assembled on the playa.

then again... leaving room to haul it out is the sure fire, no worry, no maintainence way to go. At this point I'm almost just looking for the water truck. Has BRC ever considered communal grey water collection for use on the streets? It would save them trips out to the springs.

where's that thread on how to tell if you're a burnerd or not?

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:33 am

Could rid your self of unwanted water this way. One sheet of steel roofing. One very small pound pump. Expose the roofing to the sun. Keep a light spay going onto it. The roofing could be cut in half for easy packing. It is flat so put it on th bottom of your load. Or it could be used as a base for your car top carrier.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:35 am

Make that a small "pond " pumpK?

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:12 pm

Wasn't it the Earth Gaurdians that did this last year? Put their evap pond on top of their box van roof?

Increasing the temperature increases the evap rate

Increasing the wind flow increases the evap rate

Putting your evap pond up high on metal helps in both!

I had no issues with muddy/clogged strips when I did this last year.

I think enclosing your evap pond would be counter-productive (just a guess) because you would be limiting the amount of dry air that can absorb the moisture and replacing it with water saturated air that has a limited ability to exit. Maybe this approach with an exhaust fan? I think you want the air to feely move over your pond and leave as soon as it has picked up the moisture it can carry.

Misting may be too messy, but I recall someone posting that a small fountain made from a 12v water pump was effective (and decorative!)

I am sure that the BM llc at one time considered using grey water for streets, and just as quickly rejected the idea. Perhaps a private individual could make this an art project (after first clearing it with Nevada health dept. of course). A water truck, a collection camp (with good filters), and the blessing of the Health Department is all it would take to forever endear yourself to the Citizens of BRC.

Or if you REALLY want to impress us, figure out how to convert grey water to fine micro-brewed BEER!

regards, Jafe

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:36 pm

decorative fountain... another great idea.

dragonfly Jafe wrote: Or if you REALLY want to impress us, figure out how to convert grey water to fine micro-brewed BEER!

regards, Jafe

LOL! The last guy who could do that they nailed to a tree... and he woulda been a GREAT burner too, being a carpenter and all.