Skin Cancer and Burning Man

[joya]

Hello All,

I love being on the playa. I've been twice and both times have been a day-tripper (roam all day, sleep at night.)

Fast-forward a few years... I'm married, and really am wanting my husband to experience Burning Man. I bought us tickets, but he is concerned... He recently (less than 2 years ago) had a melanoma removed from his arm. He goes for checkups every 6 months and so far, so good.

I am wondering if anyone has any advice for us?

I am thinking we'll be okay if we make sure he is covered throughly in sunscreen, he wears lightweight but long-sleeves/long-pants, and we try and stay in the shade during the peak sun hours.

BUT I am concerned... and I don't know if I am selfish in wanting him to come to Burning Man with me. He still hasn't made up his mind.

Thoughts? Advice? Suggestions??? Anyone else have skin cancer and still return to the playa???

thanks in advance.

xo joya

*** edited to add... wondering what the best shade structure might be or if we should try and get a (wince) RV?

He left it up to me to plan it all, and if it were just me by myself (which it might up being) I'd be fine with the bare minimum. Last time I went, my friend and I just slept in our mini-van! But that won't be a pleasant experience for him.

[AntiM]

Well, my cancer experience was going two days after I finished radiation for breast cancer. My deal was staying cool and I found camps where I could do that. Oh, and I also had a massive hernia from the colon cancer surgery in January, but didn't know I was in danger. No skin cancer yet, although it runs heavily in my family. So I have fears of my own on this front.

No one knows for sure with cancer, but I'd think staying covered, sunblock, a decent shade structure (carport or monkey hut style), visiting camps with shade in the heat of the day, and so on, would be alright. A big ass shade hat would be good, look for a mesh sided "breezer" or fishing hat.

Of course, the decision is solely his. If he doesn't feel it can be done, he shouldn't go if he doesn't feel comfortable.

[Savannah]

I've got no experience with skin cancer myself (knock wood) but I really enjoyed carrying around parasols for the last two years to help keep the sun off. I brought two; one light, one dark, for different outfits, and used sunscreen too.

A large umbrella (golf umbrella?) with specific UV features can be a nice version of that. Umbrellas and parasols are nice when going from your shade to a friend's shade, waiting in line for something, walks to the bathroom, walks around the neighborhood, etc. They're not so easy on bicycles, but I didn't touch my bike at all last year.

I note via google that specific UV Protection Umbrellas exist, and I see that Amazon has many under "UV Umbrella"; I would tend to consider one with a lot of positive reviews.

eta:

These are some of the personal sized ones, not as many reviews as I would like:



Different colors:


Bumblebee costume waiting to happen:


Good luck to you guys!

[joya]

Thanks for the quick replies.

ANTIM -- I can only imagine how scary it must have been to go through radiation and having breast cancer. My mother passed from breast cancer when I was young. (And my father from liver/colon cancer) Needless to say, it runs in my family too. I can understand your fears.

Thanks for your advice on the shade structure. I looked up "monkey hut" and though intrigued I'm not sure we'd be able to rig one up. We'll be flying in from Kansas City, so need to travel relatively light and pick up materials once we land (either Reno or SF... I'm thinking SF, as I think getting "certain supplies" will be easier, but that is another topic!) Do you think constructing one of these in a day's time with a medium budget would be possible? If not, maybe you have some other ideas... or at least can point me in the right direction?

SAVANNAH -- I love the idea of the umbrellas! Affordable too. I think I'll get us both one.

Thank you both for your quick responses. :) joya

[geekster]

There is an increasing body of evidence that people are avoiding sun exposure too much. People aren't getting ENOUGH sun exposure. You shouldn't burn but most people should get about 15 minutes a day minimum exposure on their face, arms, and neck at least.

There is evidence that extreme sun avoidance increases risk of internal cancers, possibly through the loss of protective properties of vitamin D and it increases osteoporosis.

For example:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/dai ... y_id=66017

"I was curious if this was safe, having been told for years to stay away from its dangerous rays, not to mention a tad bit confused as we are all well schooled in the dangers of overexposure to the sun."

Paltrow admits she took Dr. Lipman's advice and has now reversed her Vitamin D diagnosis, and she has called on the expert to offer readers tips on how to enjoy the summer sun's rays "sensibly."

He writes: "Numerous studies have shown that optimizing your Vitamin D levels may actually help prevent as many as 16 different types of cancer including pancreatic, lung, breast, ovarian, prostate, and colon cancers. And the best way to optimize Vitamin D levels is through safe, smart and limited sunscreen-free exposure to the sun."

and

http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com ... 115-1.html

[gyre]

Get the doctor's advice.

Pay attention to reflected UV out there.
I use coppertone sport clear spray to reach all the odd places, ears, ankles, etc.

Loose UV blocking clothing is much cooler in direct sunlight than the alternative.
Different in shade.
Much harder for white cloth to block Uv.
I think there is some special material now for this issue.
Black clothing tends to be a better block, oddly enough.

Taking the maximum level of vitamin D before attending should help.
Make sure not to overdose.
I would think he should be getting checked for this anyway.
It affects vulnerability to this cancer in particular, as well as burning.

Since having my levels adjusted, I don't seem to have my arms burn.
Face is still vulnerable though.

Avoid most meshy hats.
In fact, most hats suck.
Most mesh lets in too much sun.
I use this on the playa.
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___14695
There are far better hats, but at far higher prices.
A good woven hat with a wider brim would be nice, but you have to add side protection to make it effective enough.
A cheap straw hat disintegrates in a week there.
Good woven australian or western hats are costly.
In fact, I use this hat every day, and I'm about to order another one.

Reflectix or anything solid or metalized will block UV.
Shelter Systems has the cheapest effective tarp I know of.
http://www.shelsys.com/
Billboard material in black or two layers, depending on thickness, will do a good job.

And there is evening.
Not so much UV then.

Hope he has a good time.

[ygmir]

how is the sun on the playa any different than anywhere else?
seems the same precautions apply.

Gyre:

IIRC, you make vit. D when exposed to sunlight, in your skin.

[gyre]

I don't make enough.

The debate continues on the balance of risk.

I take 10,000 units a day.
Don't do that without monitoring.


The playa is fairly reflective and lacks natural shade, higher altitude than most are exposed to, as well.
First year I got burned on my ankles and the back of my knees somehow.
Odd places seem to catch sun out there.
Seen worse places burn too.

[AntiM]

I thought the UV on the playa was stronger because of the elevation. I could be wrong.

The mesh hat I am talking about had a solid brim and top. Perfect in the noonday sun beating straight down. Our bike has a canopy, so that helps too. Chilled handkerchiefs or bandannas keep sun off the neck. Gyre's suggestion is also quite good. Just not my cup of headgear.

Be sure to have a hat, not just umbrellas. If it a nasty windy year, a sudden gust can kill your umbrella. Use both!

There's a thread on here about monkey huts, basic materials are tarp, pvc and rebar. You can pick that up in Reno, then talk to neighbors about who would like to have the materials after the event. Make arrangements beforehand.

[phil]

> how is the sun on the playa any different than anywhere else?

There are several issues. One is the elevation: 4000 feet doesn't block as much sun as sea level. We don't know the original poster's elevation, so it could less.

The playa reflects sun much more than many surfaces we usually live on. The exposure comes from below as well as above, meaning shade hats aren't as effective, areas that are normally shaded (below the eyebrows, for example) get exposed to UV.

People get so involved in what's going on that the lose their normal perspective on how long they've been exposed; some people are inebriated when they normally are sober and lose their perspective.

The shade people are in may not be as effective against burning rays as they think. People may not be able to stay shaded as much as they need to be. People are more likely to have skin exposed for long periods on the playa, so "normal" exposure times are wrong.

All in all, it's not the sun that's different (although altitude is definitely a factor), it's Burning Man that's different.

[Savannah]

Be sure to have a hat, not just umbrellas. If it a nasty windy year, a sudden gust can kill your umbrella. Use both!

Yah, definitely. I hope my endorsement of parasols and UV umbrellas does not imply the exclusion of hats.

Last year's monkey hut with silver tarp was probably the best shade I've ever had in terms of sun protection (note: I've never camped in an RV). For its footprint, there was less of the moving-the-chair game in terms of avoiding the changing angles of the sun than with an open sided shade (which I prefer aesthetically).

[gyre]

The mesh hat I am talking about had a solid brim and top. Perfect in the noonday sun beating straight down. Our bike has a canopy, so that helps too. Chilled handkerchiefs or bandannas keep sun off the neck. Gyre's suggestion is also quite good. Just not my cup of headgear.

My hat has mesh vents, but they are very tight, blocking sun.
Many don't.

And beware of hats that look solid, but don't block UV.
Many are rated for this now.

The one I use is a bit unusual, but really functional.
The design works in some angles of strong wind, unlike many.
It could use a stiffer brim, but wasn't designed for this level of wind and dust together.
Over 40 mph, a stiffer brim is really called for.

It blocks so much heat from the back, you wouldn't believe it.
I never intended to use it around here, but it has replaced my straw hat.
Just works better.

And it's sort of washable, if done gently.

There are certain special woven south american hats I lust after, but if I spent the cash, would I dare to cover one in dust, however indestructible?

[Eric]

I'm very prone to skin cancer as well, being a red-head who grew up in the desert not wearing enough sun block, and have firm instructions from my dermatologist:

I'm never allowed out in daytime without my head covered (hat etc), even at home. On the playa I wear hats or head-wraps of some sort, with sunblock under that.

Sunblock should be worn if I'm going to be out more than 20 or 30 minutes. On the playa I wear spf 50 waterproof, and just keep lacquering it on day after day. The nice thing about that is that the playa dust mingled with the sunblock seems to make it work better. I've never gotten burned out there.

Loose loose loose darkish clothing- I wear a lot of cotton pantaloons during the day, generally with a short sleeve shirt if I'm staying around camp, a loose long sleeve if I'm going wandering.

These all work for me, check with his dermatologist for specifics for him.

[ygmir]

exactly the reason for my query, Phil. Thanks.

all those things should be considered. But, most are not exclusive to the playa, over other places.
A day on a lake has to be just as bad as the reflection from the playa surface.
Elevation, no matter where you are, is a factor.

but, it is most important , to compare conditions on the playa with where you are used to, and, act accordingly. IMHO.

Playa or Salt Lake City, you are around 4K el. so, know the difference from where you live.

I'd be wary of high doses of vit. D.
seems the suggestor takes it, but warns to monitor.........so, not sure what that advise means.

[Savannah]

Here's what the Mayo Clinic, one of many decent sources, says about Vitamin D dosages.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2009-mchi/5417.html

As a citizen of the Pacific Northwest, and a person with olive skin (I need more D than someone pale) I take at least 2,000 I.U. per day. I have friends who take 10,000 I.U. or more for actual deficiencies, but that's with monitoring by a doctor. It is possible to get too much of it. Symptoms of excessive D in the link (and lots of places). It's probably far more common to get way too little, though, or the wrong kind. The good kind is D3, cholecalciferol.

People in WA state (and other places this far north) are frequently deficient and there is growing thought that this contributes to our higher than average rates of MS and breast cancer. You can google "vitamin D breast cancer" or "vitamin D multiple sclerosis" to see that plenty of reputable entities are studying this connection now, but don't click on web sites that are selling anything. Look for pubmed.gov, mayo clinic, major news sources and other good places.

[ygmir]

yes, I understand that, and agree.

What I didn't get, was, it seemed to be suggested, that, the O.P.'s spouse should take high doses, for going to the playa.......

that's what has me confused.

[Savannah]

Well, I didn't bring it up first, so I can't really say (though I do find the topic interesting).

[phil]

> A day on a lake has to be just as bad as the reflection from the
> playa surface.

Absolutely. Louise and I use to sail, and the reflections off the water and off the white deck gave me problems. So did a day at the beach because of the sand. The issues aren't particular to the playa (well, some may be - inebriation, more skin, etc.) as you note. The issues apply to many vacations.

That's a good point - what has the husband done for other vacations? This may be similar enough he gets some comfort from similar experiences.

[geekster]

I suppose that if you lived in Gerlach/Empire (heck, even Reno) and were exposed to that level of UV every single day, as a few hundred thousand people are, then I might go to extreme avoidance measures. If you are going out there one week out of a year ... just be careful not to get a sunburn.

If you live in a place like Flagstaff or Denver or Santa Fe, you already get higher UV exposure than the playa anyway, particularly if you ski in the winter. Your skin is going to get a coating of playa dust on it that is opaque to UV.

[gyre]

With melanoma as an issue, ensuring levels are where they should be is worth the effort, anywhere.

I don't know all the science behind it, but it is well known that vitamin D plays in cancer prevention and inadequate levels make you vulnerable to sunburn.
1000 units is now the suggested daily minimum.
Up to 5000 is considered allowable.


My D deficiency was discovered while looking for other issues, which were found and appear to be a result of my car crash.
The vitamin supplements (50,000 D2, eventually twice a week) have made more difference than treatment for the original issue, and improvement was immediately apparent.

There is plenty about D on the web.

I could feel some joint issues when I used the full 100,000 units a week.
I don't know how well other people are at noticing such things.
The guy at Ola Loa suggested D3 instead.
I finally found 10,000 unit D3 at whole foods and am doing great on it.
The lower dosage is what I had ended up titrating to anyway.
My doctors were confused at the change to D3 at first, but signed off on it.

As stated, an overdose is almost as harmful as a deficiency.
If you need 10,000 a day, you need to be checked anyway.
They are sold as an occasional supplement or a weekly dose.
2000, 4000 and 5000 units are easily found.
Prices vary dramatically.
I paid about $20 for 120, which is a bit high, on par with the 50000 unit prescription at deep discount.
Cheaper online when available.
I found 4000 unit for a very low price locally.
Can't remember the franchise, but the reps are in their 80s, I think, and chipper as hell.

And of course, if your body derives it properly, you can get vitamin D from certain food products.

[ygmir]

I sure thought I remembered that your skin makes it when exposed to sunlight........

[gyre]

I'm not disagreeing with that.
It's actually more complicated than that, which is probably where the explanation for my deficiency lies.
Most people tested are deficient to some degree, though usually less so.

Sunburn is still bad for you.

[Kinetik V]

Gyre, I just ordered that hat you linked to. I'm sitting here burned to a crisp after the boat I was riding on broke down on Lake Mead earlier today. We were lucky we got a tow back to shore or we would have been seriously screwed. As it was we used all of our sunscreen on the kids and some of us...are now extra crispy. And I cut my hair pretty short these days and the idea of spraying my head with sunscreen doesn't appeal to me so I'm burned on the top of my head and that seriously sucks....Needless to say I am looking forward to getting my hands on that hat.

Oh and the UV Index for Vegas today is 11...Gerlach is only at 10 so it's even more intense down here.

[gyre]

I hope you like it.

If you machine wash it, I recommend front load only, and low soap as for goose down.

[kman]

Sunblock and lots of it. BUT, if you're really concerned, be sure to get the RIGHT sunblock. Many commercially-popular sunblocks can actually cause more harm than good, and higher and higher numbers are meaningless.

The best sunscreen... by FAR... is a good shirt (long sleeved) and long pants, too, not to mention real shoes and socks. Then apply sunscreen liberally to any exposed skin.

Hang in the shade during the heat of the day, especially during the most intense parts of the day (afternoon). Lots of shade can be found, but with a good hat and good sunscreen and long sleeves and pants, you don't need to feel jailed by the camp during the day. Not to mention, the whole playa is a playground once the sun sets! BM really comes alive after dark, and there's no sun to fear!

Read this article re sunscreens, however, and then head over to the EWG's website to check out the test results for your favorite (second-?) white cream. (tip- I'm partial to Loving Naturals, myself.)

I hate to link to AOL, but this article seemed to be one of the better summaries I found, after a friend told me what to search for after a discussion about the issue shortly after the report came out.

Study: Many Sunscreens May Be Accelerating Cancer

There is a link to the EWG's report and findings database at the end of the article, where you can search for your personal sunscreen-of-choice and see how it stacks up. You may be surprised! After seeing my previous sunscreen-of-choice's ranking in the database, it didn't take long for me to find one I like and that rates well (Loving Naturals).

[ygmir]

I hope you like it.

If you machine wash it, I recommend front load only, and low soap as for goose down.

yeah, same hat I have.........if we both wear them, they'll think we're twins.........

[gyre]

They have a version that is slightly more of a rain hat, though I don't see it as a real advantage here.
But just in case, thought I'd mention it.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___94695
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/CAM ... words=hats

[gyre]

I hope you like it.

If you machine wash it, I recommend front load only, and low soap as for goose down.

yeah, same hat I have.........if we both wear them, they'll think we're twins.........

Yep
Like a mirror.

[Kinetik V]

Kman, the EWG link was an eye opener...and the sunscreen we were using for our 6 month old is now in the trash. Do I really want to rub synthetic estrogen on a little boy? Not happening. That is great info that I'm forwarding all over the place...THANK YOU!

[Bob]

Way to ask the eplaya for medical advice.