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goathead
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Post by goathead » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:52 am

can't sit still wrote:Israel can't actually invade Iran so it would have to be bombs. Just imagine what the Iranian Republican Guard would do while israel was busy bombing. They would be at the israeli border in 30 hours. Iran and Egypt would over run israel in just a few days. Israel would launch their nukes.
Y'all can focus on the short-term atrocities committed daily by israel. War with Turkey or Iran would be national suicide. Both are very heavily armed. They can fight a war with Iran and Turkey but they can't stop 2 million Iranians and Egyptians from converging on their borders.
The "international" jews would just go to another country. If israel were to be over run, the nukes would fly.
Right........
:shock:

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Post by can't sit still » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:00 am

History is, of course, written by the victors. This article lists many of the actions by israel that were tactical and PR blunders. It appears to leave out actions that were a success. Dunno. I don't have all of recent Middle- East history filed away in my head. It would appear that many of the actions of israel were executed by idiots or savages,,, or both.



The Flotilla Massacre
Historical Perspective, Aftermath and Implications
By Stephen Lendman
6-8-10


During the Mandate period and throughout its existence, Israel's history has been bloodstained, barbarous, and out-of-control - and for most of it generously funded and heavily armed with the latest weapons and technology by its Washington paymaster/partner to reign terror on the region and Palestine. Early on, Israel was a regional menace. It's now a global one, posing a grave threat to world peace and stability.
The Flotilla attack was just the latest among its thousands of other atrocities, large and small, including preemptive wars, smaller incursions, bombings, killings including targeted assassinations, torture as official policy, and numerous other crimes against humanity as advocated by early leaders like David Ben-Gurion (Israel's first prime minister) saying:
"We must expel the Arabs and take their place and if we have to use force, to guarantee our own right to settle (on their land) then we have (it) at our disposal."
Or former IDF Chief of Staff Raphael Eitan (1978 - 1983) saying:
"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel....Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours."
Or the secret (1976 published) Koenig Report saying:
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
Or Benjamin Netanyahu, as Deputy Foreign Minister, saying "Israel should have exploited the (1989 Tiananmen Square violence), when world attention focused on (China), to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
Little wonder why Israel's history is so bloodstained, some notable examples below:
-- on July 22, 1946, future prime minister Menachem Begin's Irgun (a notorious terror group) bombed the King David Hotel, massacring 92 Brits, Arabs and Jews, wounding 58 others, in an operation approved by David Ben-Gurion as head of the Jewish Agency at the time;
-- also under the Mandate, the terrorist Stern Gang (future prime minister Yitzhak Shamir one of its leaders) carried out numerous bombings, kidnappings, and killings, including the 1944 assassination of Lord Moyne in Cairo - Britain's highest ranking official in the region;
-- on April 9, 1948 (during Israel's "war of independence") the Irgun, Stern Gang and other Israeli terrorists slaughtered well over 120 Palestinian men, women and children in the bloody Deir Yassin village rampage; on April 14, The New York Times reported 254 killed;
-- Israel's "war of independence" (Palestine's Nakba, its "Holocaust") depopulated 531 towns and villages and 11 urban neighborhoods, committing mass slaughter, rapings, vast destruction, and countless other atrocities in displacing about 800,000 Palestinians - one of history's greatest ever crimes of war and against humanity;
-- a week after the war's mid-May 1948 end, Israeli troops massacred over 200 al-Tantura villagers, mostly unarmed young men murdered in cold blood;
-- on July 11 & 12, IDF forces slaughtered several hundred Lydda civilians, including 80 machine-gunned inside the Dahmash mosque;
-- from October 24 - 29, 1948, Israeli soldiers slaughtered 50 Hula, Lebanon villagers;
-- on October 29, 1948, they massacred around 200 al-Dawayima villagers;
-- on October 30, 20 more in Majd al-Kurum, 94 when they blew up a house, and hundreds in Sa'sa' village;
-- on October 14, 1953, Ariel Sharon's notorious Unit 101 murdered 70 Qibya, Jordan villagers;
-- on April 5, 1956, IDF shelling massacred 56 and wounded 193 in Gaza City;
-- on October 29, 1956, the IDF slaughtered about 50 Kafr Kassem village men, women and children;
-- during the 1956 Suez War, Israelis executed about 273 Egyptian soldiers and civilians in cold blood;
-- on November 12, 1956, the IDF slaughtered over 100 Rafah Refugee Camp civilians;
-- during Israel's preemptive June 1967 Six Day War, its forces massacred around 2,000 captured Egyptian soldiers, another 340 Syrian villagers in the Golan Heights, and displaced over 300,000 Palestinians who fled to Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, and Syria to escape the carnage;
-- on June 8, 1967, Israeli forces preemptively attacked the USS Liberty (a clearly marked US intelligence ship), killing 34 Americans and wounding another 171 in international waters; Lyndon Johnson's defense department whitewashed it as a case of "mistaken identity," despite clear knowledge of a premeditated assault;
-- on February 21, 1973, the IDF shot down Libya Airlines Flight 114, killing 106 passengers, including one American;
-- on February 25, 1994, Baruch Goldstein (a member of Rabbi Meir Kahane's extremist Jewish Defense League) attacked Hebron's Cave of the Patriarchs Ibrahim mosque, massacring 29 and wounding another 129;
-- during Israel's 1982 Lebanon invasion and occupation, IDF forces slaughtered about 18,000 Lebanese and Palestinians, including around 3,000 by its Phalangist allies in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps;
-- during the first (1987 - 1992) and second (2000 - 2005) Intifadas, IDF rampages slaughtered thousands of Palestinian men, women and children in cold blood;
-- in April 2002, IDF forces invaded Jenin and its refugee camp, cut them off from outside help, destroyed hundreds of buildings, buried many alive under the rubble, cut off power, water, food, and other essential supplies, refused to let in help (including medical aid), and killed or wounded at least dozens (perhaps hundreds) of Palestinian civilians; Israel removed bodies and buried them to prevent an accurate count;
-- during the July 2006 Lebanon war, the IDF caused mass destruction, killed about 1,300, wounded many more, and displaced around one million civilians (about one-fourth of the population);
-- during the June 2006 Operation Summer Rain against Gaza, Israelis killed around 240 (mostly civilians) and caused widespread destruction - including three main bridges, the Nusairat and al-Boreji refugee camps' main water pipe, and the Strip's only power plant, supplying 80% of the Territory's electricity;
-- during the same period, the IDF conducted around 50 West Bank incursions, raiding homes, razing farmland, arresting dozens, and on June 29 the entire (elected) Hamas leadership, including eight ministers, 25 PLC Change and Reform Party members, and other Hamas officials; and
-- during the 23-day December 2008 - January 2009 Operation Cast Lead, IDF forces slaughtered over 1,400, injured around 5,500 more (many seriously), and inflicted vast destruction throughout Gaza, including vital infrastructure, hospitals, schools, mosques, government buildings, factories, other businesses, farmland, private homes, and much more unrelated to military necessity in violation of international law; as a result, the Goldstone Commission concluded that:
"the Israeli military operation was directed at the people of Gaza as a whole, in furtherance of an overall and continuing policy aimed at punishing the (entire) population, and in a deliberate policy of disproportionate force aimed at the civilian population. The destruction of (vital infrastructure and non-military targets) was the result of a deliberate and systematic policy which has made the daily process of living, and dignified living, more difficult for the civilian population."
And now the Flotilla massacre, Israel's latest crime against humanity, enraging millions worldwide, getting Turkey and South Africa to recall their ambassadors, Nicaragua to downgrade diplomatically to a consular level, and several other countries to consider their own measures.
Qatar announced it will pay to take Israel to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) and will fund a worldwide media campaign on the incident and Gaza siege.
Arutz Sheva (Israel National News.com) reported that the Egyptian Bar Association is collecting material to file an ICJ suit, its chairman, Hamdi Alifa, saying they're being reviewed to file "giant lawsuits" against Israeli crimes, including the Flotilla attack and Gaza siege.
Haaretz reported that Swedish dock workers will blockade Israeli ships from June 15 - 24. Norway announced it cancelled a scheduled special operations seminar because its Defense Ministry objected to an Israeli officer's participation. In Bournemouth, England (with a large Jewish population and Jewish mayor), people demanded cutting city relations with Netanyahu.
The French operator Utopia said it won't screen the Israeli-made film, "Five Hours From Paris." Israel flags were publicly burned in many cities. New Delhi Muslims demanded their government sever ties with Israel. The BBC reported that 200 or more in Belfast protested the Rachel Corrie seizure, five days after the Flotilla massacre.
Ynet News.com reported that President Shimon Peres will likely cancel a scheduled Asia trip, because he's supremely unwelcome, and longtime White House correspondent Helen Thomas said Israeli Jews should return to Germany, Poland, and America, prompting B'nai B'rith's international VP Daniel Mariaschin to say:
"There should be no place for her in a news organization. Her comments go beyond commentary and land well in the camp that will stop at nothing to delegitimize Israel." B'nai B'rith has long supported the worst of Israeli crimes, denouncing anyone who dares expose them.
On June 7, Haaretz reported that a Knesset panel voted 7 - 1 to "strip Balad (Party) MK Hanin Zuabi (an Israeli citizen) of privileges over (her) Gaza flotilla participation."
In a same day op-ed piece, Haaretz's Ruth Gavison called measures to "limit dissent and protest" dangerous by "enforc(ing) the platforms of those who claim Israel is becoming a belligerent country that belittles democracy and human rights."
In fact, throughout its history, Israel has always been belligerent, and has never respected democracy, human rights, or the rule of law.
Global Outrage - Resonating and Growing
After the massacre, world protests erupted, including in many US cities - among them:
-- New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Washington DC in front of the White House, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Boston, Houston, Dallas, Cleveland, Atlanta, Tampa, Minneapolis, Oklahoma City, New Orleans, Charlotte, Raleigh, Knoxville, Fresno, Dearborn, Denver, Sioux Falls, Fort Wayne, Fayetteville, Portland, Boise, and Seattle.
US major media reports ignored them, but aired Israeli propaganda blaming the victims, calling them terrorists, and claiming the Netanyahu government acted responsibly to prevent "pro-Palestinian radicals, jihadists" from smuggling in arms to Hamas - Palestine's legitimate government, falsely called a terrorist organization to justify premeditated murder, a suffocating siege, claiming they're for self-defense, another refuge for scoundrels caught red-handed as evidenced by the worldwide outrage.
On May 31, Al Jazeera headlined what millions around the world feel: "Global outrage over Israeli attack" - condemnation from high officials to street anger everywhere, Hamas leader Ismail Haniya proclaiming May 31 "freedom day" in calling on Palestinians throughout Gaza and the West Bank "to carry out a total strike (throughout the Territories) to show solidarity (against) Israeli crimes."
Longtime Palestinian supporter, Hugo Chavez, expressed condolences to the families and friends of the "heros who were victims of this crime," calling on "those responsible for the murders (to) be severely punished."
In a prepared statement, he condemned the "brutal massacre committed by the state of Israel against members of the Freedom Flotilla (and its) war against unarmed civilians who were trying to bring humanitarian assistance to the....people of Gaza (under) a criminal blockade imposed by the state of Israel."
"The revolutionary government of Venezuela will continue denouncing the terrorist and criminal nature of the Israeli government and reiterates....its unshakeable commitment with the struggle of the Palestinian people for freedom, national sovereignty and dignity."
In early 2009, over Cast Lead atrocities, Chavez severed diplomatic ties with Israel and hasn't restored them.
Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan strongly condemned Israel's attack as "despicably cowardly, brazen, reckless, and vicious - against international law, against the heart of humanity, against world peace," referring to the massacre as an "abhorrent terrorist attack" against a humanitarian mission in international waters.
He recalled his ambassador, cancelled three jointly scheduled military operations, called for an emergency Security Council meeting, asked for immediate international community action, and said "Everything has a price. And this government will have to pay (it)."
Aside from its latest appalling crime, a litany of explanatory lies, and a common street thug as prime minister, Israel and America (its paymaster/partner in all belligerent acts) have a whopping PR disaster on their hands, given world outrage resonating to top officials who must answer to their own constituencies.
Moreover, the Netanyahu government's farcical justification compounds its untenable position. Obama's indifference and Security Council obstructionism exposes his, along with outrageous congressional comments. These people can't even lie well, or perhaps as automatically count on reliable allies ahead, getting fed up with ones more an albatross.
Objectives of Both Sides
Flotilla planners' clear agenda included:
-- delivering essential to life aid to 1.5 million besieged Gazans, three years this month, but more importantly
-- symbolically breaking the siege to encourage world condemnation, highlighting an intolerable injustice, and taking another important step toward ending it.
On the pretext of blocking the entry of weapons, Israel carried out a premeditated, carefully planned and rehearsed military operation, designed to commit murder and mass casualties against unarmed civilians, even announcing it in Maariv, one of Israel's leading dailies, days in advance, the caption reading:
"On the way to violence, one of the boats is on its way," suggesting a kill-or-be-killed encounter with "terrorists."
Israel's plan had specific objectives:
-- to maintain its oppressive blockade;
-- keep 1.5 million Gazans trapped in the world's largest open-air prison;
-- cause enough harm to deter others from coming, and
-- assassinated designated activists on board.
On June 5, the UK Independent's Catrina Stewart reported an interview with Jamal Elshayyal, one of eight Al Jazeera on board reporters, seven on the Mavi Marmara, saying passengers found on Israeli commandos a list of names and photos, Alshayyal telling Stewart:
The "protesters rummaged through captured soldiers' belongings and claimed to unearth a document that they allege is a list of people Israel intended to assassinate. The booklet, written in Hebrew and in English, contained some photographs of passengers on the Marmara, including the leader of IHH, the Turkish charity that provided two of the ships, an 88-year-old priest and Ra'ad, head of the Northern Branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel, Mr. Elshayyal said."
Autopsy reports show Flotilla members were shot multiple times at close range, two or more in the head, indicating murder, not self-defense as Israel claims.
The Israeli Project produces pro-Israeli propaganda, claiming it's information is accurate, unbiased, and "not related to any government or government agency."
In its post-Flotilla attack conference call, Rep. Brad Sherman (D. CA) accused Flotilla activists of aiding Hamas in violation of US law, then called on US Attorney General Eric Holder to prosecute US participants on terrorist charges, saying:
"The Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 makes it absolutely illegal for any American to give food, money, school supplies, paper clips, concrete or weapons to Hamas or any of its officials."
Sherman, a so-called "liberal" Democrat, supports the most extremist elements of Israel's government, Netanyahu and Foreign Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Avigdor Lieberman among them, notorious sponsors of state-terrorism.
The entire Senate and most House members also back Israel's belligerence and broader objective to destroy PA authority to subjugate all Palestine - by ruthless attacks against civilians, considered legitimate targets to weaken their will to resist through mass slaughter, other atrocities, and numerous other abuses.
Cast Lead did it horrifically, the Flotilla slaughter just the latest example of how far Israel will go - with Washington's full support through generous funding, the latest weapons and technology, and use of its Security Council pressure and veto.
Stratfor Global Intelligence on the Flotilla Massacre
Providing information and insights to world decision-makers, Stratfor's CEO George Friedman examined the effect of Israel's attack, calling it "unprecedented in size" for an assault of this kind, citing three factors differentiating it:
-- over 600 foreign nationals were involved, including politicians and journalists, "raising the stakes for all players;"
-- the incident drew unprecedented media attention and preparation; immediately, "pre-arranged interviews with various pro-Palestinian representatives were filling regional media such as Al Jazeera" and others (but not in America where they're banned); world protests erupted, calling for accountability and sanctions against Israel; and
-- "Most importantly, a non-Arab foreign state played a role in instigating this incident. Turkey has been feeling its way forward in the region," trying to increase its political stature through "new tools of influence." Its government "did everything it could to benefit from the public relations that a successful breaching of the blockade would generate."
In addition, because of Israel's "direct action, a web of international relationships will be affected," and Turkey can leverage the incident by "providing military escorts (for) future aid flotillas that could increase in size" and further heighten tensions if Israeli recklessness continues.
Already, Middle East instability has increased, "the last thing" America needs with more than enough on its plate. In addition, Washington-Tel Aviv relations are affected, at least overtly as well as Israel's Western and regional relationships. Fumbling a "military action against a civilian convoy....is something that works directly against American policies."
Given what's happened and world outrage, "the issue has....shifted from a military question to a political one." Key ahead is how Israel, Washington and Ankara will react, besides the potential effect on other world governments, given growing demands for accountability and mass public calls for action.
Friedman discounts the idea that the commandos used "paintballs" in the attack, calling them "training rounds" not likely to be used during a mission of this sort, especially on a ship with over 600 activists. Claiming it flies in the face of up to 20 killed and many more wounded, Friedman added:
"We find this hard to believe, given Israel's extensive experience (against) hostile civilian crowds," perhaps ready to offer resistance.
Israel's Shayetet 13 force is an elite Naval Special Forces unit, specializing in sea-to-land incursions, assassinations, counterterrorism, sabotage, and other belligerent acts - not crowd control, "so a civilian opposition would not necessarily be their area of expertise," a mission Israeli police could have handled.
Friedman omitted what Today's Zaman reported (an English language Turkish daily) on June 7, stating:
"Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Cemil Cicek (said) Turkish citizens who were injured or killed were subjected to serious torture, and this much is evident from traces left on their bodies as well as from bullet shots, most of which were fired at close range."
The paper's photographer, Kursat Bayhan, was on the Mavi Marmara and related his "30 hours in cell number 5202" in Beer-Sheva Prison. All their belongings were taken. They were body-searched, handcuffed, photographed, forced to sign a document saying they weren't harmed, those requesting return of their luggage and passports then beaten, how Israel treats virtually all detainees.
Fallout from the Flotilla Massacre
Joshua Landis is Director of the Center for Middle East Studies and Professor of Middle East Studies at the University of Oklahoma. On his June 1 web site posting, Syria Comment, he headlined, "Israel Pays High Price for Attack on Turkish Flotilla with Aid for Gaza," saying the damage is mounting:
-- Greece "decided to discontinue the joint military exercise currently under way and to postpone" the Athens visit of Israel's air force general staff head, scheduled for June 1;
-- Turkey recalled its ambassador, and its foreign minister says "relations are irreparable;"
-- Netanyahu had to cancel his important Washington visit;
-- an emergency UN Security Council session was called, no surprise afterward that Washington prevented any meaningful resolution;
-- "Obama will try to distance the US from Israel in due course. What choice does he have? Israel is increasingly a millstone around America's neck;"
-- China got Washington to agree to exempt its companies from US measures for doing business with Iran for whatever new sanctions it agreed to;
-- "Negotiations will now become harder and more costly for the US as the world largely sees (its) effort to punish Iran to be driven by Israeli concerns. Iran hardly threatens the US," Israel or any other nation.
On May 31 in Foreign Policy, Professor Stephen Walt headlined "Israel's latest brutal blunder," saying:
"What could Israel's leaders have been thinking? How could they possibly believe that a deadly assault against a humanitarian mission in international waters would play to their advantage?" Actions like this galvanize efforts to "delegitimize the country....This latest escapade is as bone-headed as the 2006 war in Lebanon" and Cast Lead. They provide "more evidence of the steady deterioration in Israel's strategic thinking that we have witnessed since 1967."
Importantly, the Flotilla attack "poses a broader threat to US national interests" because the world associates Israel's actions with Washington, given the "unbreakable bonds" between them. It's clear that "the special relationship with Israel has become a net liability." Tel Aviv portraying itself as a blameless victim is wearing thin, a shameless canard, increasingly likely ahead to fall on deaf ears.
On January 19, 2009, after Cast Lead, Walt addressed "The Myth of Israel's strategic genius," saying:
The record shows otherwise. Israel's military victories are often strategic failures, showing it's expert only at shooting itself in the foot, so far at least without consequences, but for how long.
According to noted Israeli supporter Leon Wieseltier, its settlements project was another "moral and strategic blunder of historic proportions," one, in fact, "never openly debated within the Israeli body politic," but taken behind closed doors.
For decades, Israel has stumbled from one strategic blunder to another, showing there's "no reason to think (it) possesses uniquely gifted strategists or a national security establishment that consistently makes smart and far-sighted choices."
Yet remarkably, some of its most incompetent leaders, including Ehud Barak, Ehud Olmert, Ariel Sharon, and Netanyahu are rewarded with new chances to repeat mistakes, perhaps because of Washington's unflagging support, but for how long, given the price America pays for damaged goods, compounding its own appalling record abroad and at home with a shelf life of definite limits and an ability to preserve it running out of cash.
Perhaps also its willingness to stick with a dubious partner, the same problem Washington faces with allies, sooner or later to get fed up and walk away, cutting their losses to advantage their own futures. The same ones Americans should consider for their own welfare, and assess how far they'll go to defend it.
Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago and can be reached at [email protected]. Also visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com and listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network Thursdays at 10AM US Central time and Saturdays and Sundays at noon. All programs are archived for easy listening.
http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/ ... news-hour/.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

can't sit still
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Post by can't sit still » Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:02 pm

The European jews are seeing more clearly every day, that judaism has been hijacked by zionism,,, and to a certain extent, israel. In spite of the views of the Old Testament and the Talmud, they deplore the brutality exercised by israel. They've seen the pictures of the prohibited phosphorous weapons. They've seen the bombing of refuge camps and schools and hospitals. They want to distance themselves from the brutality and inhumanity of the zionists, mafioso, and fundamentalists in israel.
In spite of news blackouts by the press, world jewery is becoming aware.
http://www.kawther.info/wpr/2010/06/22/ ... propaganda
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Post by Mosin » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:28 am

Better watch what you say about Israel folks:

[youtube][/youtube]
Come down with fire - Lift my spirit higher -Someone's screaming my name - Come and make me holy again....

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Post by can't sit still » Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:56 am

Intimidation is the stock-in-trade of the zionists. After judge Goldstone ruled that operation cast lead was war crimes, they moved to get him barred from entering the U.S.. They claimed that his actions as a judge during the apartheid era in South Africa made him some kind of criminal.
Now that Turkey has moved against israel, israel is screaming about the Turkish pogroms against Armenians. It never bothered them before but, they need some kind of excuse to attack turkey.
israel can't seem to see that an attack on Iran would be suicidal. Reportedly, the attack will now come from the north. Too much of the neighboring airspace is closed to allow an attack from the south and east;
http://www.debka.com/article/8868/
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138231
An attack on Iran is likely doomed. They just have way too many missiles. It doesn't matter how expensive your ships and planes are if they can be taken out by missiles. Iran has a Silkworm factory and hundreds of advanced Russian missiles.
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/3320
Iran can close the Straits of Hormuz any time they want. That would bring the economies of the West crashing down.
There is also the possibility that an attack on Iran would cause all of israel's neighbors to march. Egypt has nothing to lose. They have excess population and there is NO possibility that israel could occupy the country. They can attack and, win-or-lose, they come out OK.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

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Post by can't sit still » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:19 pm

It seems that the drums of war are getting louder;
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/uss-ca ... nt-tehran-
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Post by DVD Burner » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:54 am

Turks shot multiple times on Gaza ship: forensics

(AFP) – 2 hours ago

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... UgCb8fmdAg

ANKARA — All but two of the nine Turks killed in an Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship were shot more than once, and five died from bullet wounds to the head, according to forensic reports.

The reports were made available to AFP Tuesday by lawyers for the victims' families, who have petitioned Turkish prosecutors to investigate the May 31 bloodshed on the Turkish Mavi Marmara ferry.

The forensic examinations were carried out in Turkey by the government-run Forensic Institute.

"The findings make it clear the Israeli forces shot to kill the activists and not to overpower them," one of the lawyers, Yasin Divrak, told AFP.

The nine volunteers were shot a total of 31 times, according to the documents.

The youngest victim, 19-year-old Furkan Dogan, a dual Turkish-US national, was shot five times, including twice in the head, his autopsy report said.

A bullet that pierced his face was fired from close range, it said, adding he was hit also in the back of the head.

The forensic experts failed to detect other point-blank shots on the remaining victims.

All nine bodies had been washed before being brought to Turkey and their clothes were either blood-soaked or otherwise unfit for analysis, making it impossible to reach a conclusion on the ranges of most shots, according to the documents.

Another victim, Ali Heyder Bengi, 39, was shot six times, including once in the abdomen, while Fahri Yildiz, 43, was hit by five bullets, among them a fatal one in the chest, according to the documents.

Journalist Cevdet Kiliclar, 38, the web editor of the Islamist charity IHH that led the ill-fated campaign, was killed by a single bullet that hit him between the eyebrows, the report said.

Divrak drew attention to the autopsy of 61-year-old Ibrahim Bilgen, which included the discovery of a tiny bag containing pellets, still intact in his brain, which the report said was was fired from a hunting rifle.

"It is not a type of weapon that we have ever heard of," he said.

Three bullet wounds were also found in Bilgen's chest, back and hip.

Israel says its commandos used force after they were attacked with sticks and stabbed as soon as they landed on the Mavi Marmara, which was sailing in international waters. But the activists insist the troops opened fire as soon as they landed.

Friends and relatives have described several of the dead Turks as devout Muslims who were passionate about the Palestinian cause and wanted to be "martyrs."

The bloody ending to the aid mission, which had aimed to break the Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip, plunged ties between Turkey and Israel, once close allies, into deep crisis.

Turkey has dismissed a commission set up by Israel to investigate the raid, insisting for a UN-led international probe.

Copyright © 2010 AFP. All rights reserved
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Cute Hebraicals....

Post by Rabbi Dali Rick » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:51 am

THINGS I DIDN'T LEARN IN HEBREW SCHOOL


1. The High Holidays have absolutely nothing to do with marijuana.

2. Where there's smoke, there may be salmon.

3. No meal is complete without leftovers.

4. According to Jewish dietary law, pork and shellfish may be eaten
only in Chinese restaurants.

5.. A shmata is a dress that your husband's ex is wearing.

6.. You need ten men for a minion, but only four in polyester pants
and white shoes for pinochle.

7.. One mitzvah can change the world; two will just make you tired.

8.. After the destruction of the Second temple, God created Nordstroms.

9.. Anything worth saying is worth repeating a thousand times.

10. Never take a front row seat at a Bris.

11. Next year in Jerusalem. The year after that, how about a nice
cruise?

12. Never leave a restaurant empty handed.

13. Spring ahead; fall back - winters in Boca.

14. WASP's leave and never say good-bye; Jews say good-bye and never leave.

15. Always whisper the names of diseases.

16. If it tastes good, it's probably not kosher.

17. The important Jewish holidays are the ones on which alternate side
of the street parking is suspended.

18. Without Jewish mothers, who would need therapy?

19. If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it. But if you can
afford it, make sure to tell everybody what you paid.

20. Laugh now, but one day you'll be driving a Lexus and eating dinner
at 4:00 PM in Florida.



SIGNS ON SYNAGOGUE BULLETIN BOARDS:


1. Under same management for over 5763 years.


2. Don't give up. Moses was once a basket case.


3. What part of "Thou shalt not" don't you understand?


4. Shul committees should be made up of three members, two of whom
should be absent at every meeting.


5. Sign over the urinal in a bathroom at Hebrew University:
"The future of the Jewish people is in your hands."

More Jewish Stuff:

1. My mother is a typical Jewish mother. Once she was on jury duty.
They sent her home. She insisted SHE was guilty.


2. Any time a person goes into a delicatessen and orders pastrami on
white bread with mayo, somewhere a Jew dies.


3. It was mealtime during a flight on El Al. "Would you like dinner?"
the flight attendant asked Moshe. "What are my choices?" Moshe asked.
"Yes or no," she replied.

4. An elderly Jewish man is knocked down by a car and is brought to
the local hospital. A pretty nurse tucks him into bed and says, "Mr.Gevarter,
are you comfortable?" Gevarter replies, "I make a living...."

5. A rabbi was opening his mail one morning. Taking a single sheet of
paper from an envelope, he found written on it only one word: "shmuck."
At the next Friday night service, the Rabbi announced,
"I have known many people who have written letters and forgotten to sign
their names, but this week I received a letter from someone who signed his
name...and forgot to write a letter."

6. Three Jewish women get together for lunch. As they are being seated
in the restaurant, one takes a deep breath and gives a long, slow "oy."
The second takes a deep breath as well and lets out a long, slow "oy".
The third takes a deep breath and says impatiently, "Girls, I thought we
agreed that we weren't going to talk about our children."

And one final favorite:
7. A waiter comes over to a table full of Jewish women and asks,
"Is anything all right ? "





the rebbi

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Post by can't sit still » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:16 pm

This is an interesting article that talks about the impossibility of israel holding on to both it's democracy and it's religious-centric beliefs.


Seyla Benhabib is philosopher and professor of Political Science and Philosophy at Yale University

On a balmy and humid Saturday night, June 5th, we left our apartment on Kikar Masarik Square in Tel-Aviv and walked down to Yitzhak Rabin Square, only 5 minutes away. Recalling our youthful days at similar anti-war and peace marches, we eyed the crowd anxiously.

We soon realized that we were joining the crowd, whose size would eventually grow to 6,000 and sponsored by the Israeli Peace Movement (Shalom Ahshav), at the gathering spot of the Israeli Communist Party (Hadash): I noticed many young Arabs carrying the hammer and sickle, along with girls, Israeli or Palestinian, with their khaffiyas, chanting in Hebrew and Arabic as a distinguished looking elderly Arab gentleman addressed that part of the crowd.

As the sea of red flags surges around us, I suppressed a tear: Such a sight is hardly visible in any European capital. I recalled all those Jewish communist militants of Europe who gave their lives for an ideal that was hollowed out by history. “Wie eine Trane im Ozean,â€
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Post by DVD Burner » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:24 pm

dont know if anyone actually noticed but I did years ago.

The Last Real Burner is Jewish?

Always wanted to know but was afraid to ask.

This should be interesting.
https://www.facebook.com/NeXTCODER

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Post by can't sit still » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:05 pm

This is an article talking about some of the many problems facing israel;
http://www.roytov.com/articles/husks.htm
Their newest problem is another relief ship sent from Libya to Gaza.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 24393.html
I suspect that they will be somewhat smarter this time.
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Post by Apollonaris Zeus » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:19 pm

Fuck the Jews!












especially the good looking ones!

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Post by can't sit still » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:42 am

The U.S. is being exceedingly stupid with their sanctions. The power and influence from D.C. is waning. They can ill afford to push around countries in the East. They tried to push Turkey and failed miserably. The more that we push eastern countries to toe the line,,, the more that they will just cross that line.
We put sanctions on Iran to try to choke them,,, all at the behest of israel, of course.
http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=61112
China and Turkey are taking up the slack. Russia is too. All our stupid manipulations are working great at forming a larger and larger bloc of countries to oppose us.
China just downgraded our debt. Turkey just tried to break the blockade of Gaza.
These aren't minor actions. These are the actions of countries that are no longer afraid of American power.
The U.S. will never prevail in Afghanistan. That means that Turkey will continue to be very important for oil pipelines. Turkey is a huge producer of food and oil. The U.S. can't very well harm them as long as they can keep out the CIA troublemakers.
As the list grows of countries that are no longer afraid of American power, we have that much less influence.

It's a well known fact that America had no enemies in the middle-east until we had israel as a "friend". After we killed several million there,,,, all of a sudden, we have enemies. We could have chosen to get our oil in honest trade. Instead, we chose to have israel as a forward garrison to control the area so we could steal the oil. A perfect example of a flawed business model.

It meshed nicely with israel's desire to form "greater israel" We just invade, destroy the infrastructure and randomly kill everybody. We started with the educated people. We've done a lot of killing and destroying. We've learned, like earlier empires, that it gets very expensive. We've also discovered that we're forcing the people in the area to unite.

If israel can't occupy it's neighbors, it will settle for neutralizing them. Trash them back to the "stone age" This too, is turning out to be very expensive.
GOV / bankers blew bubbles to keep the economy going long after it's expiry date. It was hoped that iran could be lit up before the whole shebang collapsed. Bush couldn't seem to pacify iraq. He declared "job done" to appease his handlers. Didn't work out that way.

The U.S. [you and me] is sliding into the debt spiral where we can't possible continue to service old debt with new loans. China's downgrade was a little nudge towards the edge of the cliff. The world smells blood and they aren't near so worried about America's reaction to their actions.
Some of the israelis are pushing for war on Iran before the U.S. blows and can't prosecute a war. Most of the israelis know that another war can't possibly bring them security. Many thousands of israelis are leaving israel even though GOV charges them something like 40 % as an emigration fee. Israel has become like a BAD theme park. People have decided that it wasn't a good idea after all. They're packing their bags and going to some place that appears to have a viable future.

The whole question of Iran boils down to just one thing. Will Iran attack israel knowing that israel has 200 plus nuclear weapons? Does iran want nukes just as a deterrent?
Iranians are Persians, not Arabs. Like the Turks, they have a long proud history as an empire. Are they willing to commit suicide for ideology?
Brazil, China, Russia and Turkey have sided with Iran. America needs to look at the opposition and stay the hell out of iran. Israel needs to face the fact that their vision of a "theocratic wonderland" is never going to work. You can't attack all your neighbors and expect to have any kind of tranquility or peace. Sane people have no desire for a life of strife.
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Post by goathead » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:21 am

Dancing, laughing at Auschwitz: who has the right?

Image
WARSAW, Poland – Who has the right to dance at Auschwitz, to make light of the Holocaust, to shoot videos set amid cattle cars and gas chambers?

A home video that has gone viral on the Internet showing a Holocaust survivor dancing at Auschwitz and other Holocaust sites to the disco classic "I Will Survive" with his daughter and grandchildren has brought such questions to the fore.

To some, images of Adolek Kohn and his family shuffling off-beat at such hallowed places is an insult to those who perished; to others a defiant celebration of survival. The incongruous juxtapositions have struck many viewers as funny and chilling at the same time.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100717/ap_ ... dsYXVnaA--

May Mr. Kohn enjoy many more dances with his kids.

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Post by can't sit still » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:47 pm

Interesting article... introspection;
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists ... ?id=181444
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Post by can't sit still » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:21 pm

Here's an article on Oliver Stone. It's a complete whitewash. The interesting thing is the comments. They completely RIP the article apart with fact and logic.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwes ... the-media/
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Post by gyre » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:15 pm

Everyone knows that jews control the weather.

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Post by can't sit still » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:13 pm

"Look at all the hate there is in Red China
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama"

Seems there's a lot of hate going around.
"ADL director Abe Foxman says that 45 years ago one third of Americans were “seriously infectedâ€
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Post by can't sit still » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:29 pm

This is a very disturbing document. It spells out with great detail many of the tortures and mutilations carried out against Russian Christians and the intelligentsia. They were carried out almost 100 % by jews. The Bolshevik revolution was financed by jews.
Here are a few of the ideological quotes;

""Some call it Marxism — I call it Judaism."
"According to the data furnished by the Soviet press, out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State there were in 1918-1919: 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Lets, 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 2 Poles, 2 Finns, 1 Karaim, 457 Jews."

"The Communist soul is the soul of Judaism. Hence it follows that, just as in the Russian revolution the triumph of Communism was the triumph of Judaism, so also in the triumph of fascism will triumph Judaism."

"The Communists are against religion (Christianity), and they seek to destroy religion; yet, when we look deeper into the nature of Communism, we see that it is essential nothing else than a religion (Judaism)."

We have exterminated the property owners in Russia. We are going to do the same thing in Europe and America."

"We have brought the culture, civilization, traditions and thrones of the Christian Nations to stagger. We have done everything to bring the Russian people under the yoke of the Jewish power, and ultimately compelled them to fall on their knees before us. "

This long entry lays out many of the tortures
"The Jews were now free to indulge in their most fervent fantasies of mass murder of helpless victims. Christians were dragged from their beds, tortured and killed. Some were actually sliced to pieces, bit by bit, while others were branded with hot irons, their eyes poked out to induce unbearable pain. ",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

"The world revolution which we will experience will be exclusively our affair and will rest in our hands. This revolution will tighten the Jewish domination over all other people."

Churchill; "In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed, the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses."

"They have grabbed hold of all newspapers, and you can imagine what a nauseating literature is the outcome of it. Now this entire Jewish world, which constitutes an exploiting sect, a people of leeches, a voracious parasite, Marx feels an instinctive inclination and a great respect for the Rothschilds. This may seem strange. What could there be in common between communism and high finance? Ho ho! The communism of Marx seeks a strong state centralization, and where this exists there must inevitably exist a state central bank, and where this exists, there the parasitic Jewish nation, which speculates upon the labor of the people, will always find the means for its existence."

Trotsky said of Russia:

" - We should turn Her (Russia) into a desert populated with white Niggers We will impose upon them such a tyranny that was never dreamt by the most hideous despots of the East. The peculiar trait of that tyranny is that it will be enacted from the left. Rather than the right and it will be red rather than white in color"

http://www.iamthewitness.com/doc/Jews.and.Communism.htm

We know that a large part of the israeli GOV and power structure is made up of Russian Khazars. We know that the Russian mafia is completely ruthless. Yeltsin said that Russia is one big mafia country;
"What makes the Russian Mafia so powerful is that unlike any criminal organization, the Russians literally control an entire state, which was formerly a world super power."
We also know that israel is controlled by the mafia to some degree.

A document, The Protocols of Zion reportedly lays out the path for zionist control of the whole world.
History is VERY clear about how Christian Russia was ruthlessly annihilated by JEWS.

OK, how much of this "slaughter" mentality has been left behind? How much of this "we're far superior to these cattle" attitude is left behind? How much of the "we MUST control the whole world if we are to survive" mentality is still present?
Do the hardline zionists envision a "Russian carnage" here in America? James Howard Kunstler [a jew] is talking up a complete breakdown of the fabric of society. He goes on about inter-racial warfare. Is he giving us a theme to follow? While other are talking about co-operation, he and Celente are talking revolution.
There are many claims floating around that the West will be completely crashed to pave the way for one world GOV. Is there truth to this?

If one looks at the S&L crash, it was an obvious, pre-planned looting. The follow-up bubbles were done by people who had to know better. Congress has pedal-to-the-metal spending even though Keynesian counter-cyclical spending has never worked out in the long run.
Are the international bankers calling the shots?,,, to get the desired results?
Give me a DIFFERENT explanation.
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Post by gyre » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:09 pm

What is the provenance of the Protocols of Zion?

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Post by can't sit still » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:46 pm

Here's a link;
http://www.aztlan.net/protocols.htm
The protocols of Zion are a guidebook for enslaving the lesser races.
The most important thing to keep in mind is this;
"There is much controversy over the legitimacy of the "Protocols" published below. Please do not take them as the TRUTH, but verify for yourself if they correspond to actual reality. "
They are claimed to be a forgery. This makes no difference if they are, in fact, being used for a guide.
. One must not condemn jews or judaism for the desires, plans and "transgressions" of zionism. Judaism has been more or less hijacked by zionism. While judaism is often accused of advocating communism as a way to make the world a safer place for jews, this attitude is losing appeal. The jews are very focused on trade. Communism greatly depresses trade.
Time after time, there has been a clear distinction between jews and the international jew;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_International_Jew
The zionists are sometimes referred to as Talmudists. That may or may not be accurate. Many of the international jews are atheists.
http://iamthewitness.com/audio/Benjamin ... .Pawns.htm
There is no reason to believe that the hard core zionists have abandoned or diminished their plans and desires. Worldwide subjugation and worldwide rule are very appealing.
I believe that the majority of the jews are just pawns. They have a long history of persecution. They may very well see the zionist agenda as a survival plan.
The jews are known to have grandiose plans for a "greater israel". A MUCH larger territory under their control. One wonders why they're spreading around so much depleted uranium if they hope to oneday own the land without any interference.

There are claims that the zionists will abandon and trash israel after it has served it's usefulness. Israel is more than willing to do this with America;
"Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away." Benjamin Netanyahu.
A comment made Netanyahu to Jonathan Pollard (convicted traitor and spy) upon exiting Pollard's jail cell.
The zionists may very well have the same fate in mind for israel.
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Post by goathead » Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:57 am

The protocols of Zion are a guidebook for enslaving the lesser races.
The most important thing to keep in mind is this;
"There is much controversy over the legitimacy of the "Protocols" published below. Please do not take them as the TRUTH, but verify for yourself if they correspond to actual reality. "
The Protocols of Zion
SNORT, you have to be kidding.
css get a life please.

[youtube][/youtube]

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Post by can't sit still » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:04 pm

Interesting article. "Israel could become an underdeveloped Third World country by 2020, a population expert predicts."
""I am very concerned. If this is the process, and the problem is not dealt with, our country is finished in 17 years, and there will be a collapse,""
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/art ... 1802.shtml
Israel's answer is to kick out non-jew children; http://www.theage.com.au/world/israel-t ... 1139p.html
They need to ignore the Torah to do this;
''The obligation to act with kindness and compassion to foreigners is the most frequently repeated commandment in the Torah,''
Emigration from israel is rising even though it is very expensive to leave. Immigration to israel is dropping dramatically;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah
The israeli birthrate is very low. Nobody wants to have their kids living in an armed garrison filled with so much hate.
Israel is so focused on security that they've destroyed their future.
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Post by goathead » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:10 pm

Dam Hateful IDF.

[youtube][/youtube]

How dare they dance with kids.

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Post by can't sit still » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:58 am

goathead, what is your point. I cite movements and generalities. You show an exception. I never implied that all of the israelis or jews are bad. I stated the opposite. This soldier who is dancing is probably NOT one of the soldiers who killed 352 kids in "operation cast lead".
http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display. ... &DocId=917
352 dead kids is more representative of the general feelings of the IDF.
I refuse to judge a people for exceptional [negative] actions. I will give them credit though for exceptional positive actions. This cited soldier is showing humanity. The bulldozers are still flattening houses. The orchards and vineyards and fields are still being ripped up. THAT is showing inhumanity.

Here is an interesting paper on the history of the document that is referred to as the "protocols of the elders of zion."
http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=534
"Later, a Jew by the name of Herman Bernstein, publisher of the “Free Pressâ€
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Post by goathead » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:06 pm

So the pals never do anything wrong?
They never demand anything outragous?
They are well, fucking lilly white?

Oh and well most of the rest of the world thinks the

"Protocols of the elders of zion"

Are about as real as the old Blood libel.

Wake the fuck up and see that there is more to this fucking fight then just

THE EVIL JEWS....

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Post by goathead » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:12 pm

Actually maybe this thread should be renamed to

Lets just Bash the Evil Fucking Jew thread.

Because that is just about all that has EVER gone on in here.

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Post by gyre » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:20 pm

Isn't Henry Ford et al a questionable source, considering his associations with the Bund and Germany's Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei?

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Post by can't sit still » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:02 pm

gyre, every source is questionable.
goathead, if you want to change the perception of the jews, I suggest that you post some facts rather than innuendo and rants. I work to try to keep this thread from descending into flames. Do you think that your profanity adds to the discussion,,, illuminates the better side of the jews?
You could post info about israel's huge contribution to desert agronomy. It's extremely important worldwide.
You decry the vilification of the jews. Operation "cast lead" was judged war crimes,, by a jew. Does that not merit vilification? Was it not evil?
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Burke
Will you claim that 2000 years of vilification of jews was baseless? You can't blame all the vilification on Christian haters of the "christ-killers". They've been vilified by most sects and the pagans too.
Explain to me why vilification of jews is unwarranted in light of current events.
It's certainly warranted in light of historical events.
Don't even bother telling me that it is complicated and that I wouldn't understand.
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Post by goathead » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:44 am

css why?
this is the eplaya after all.
and I really doubt that anything I post will change your mind.
So what does that leaves but flames?
Don't even bother telling me that it is complicated and that I wouldn't understand
I should hope not, after all there are the Protocols after all.

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