LED sequencing/supplies

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:11 pm

I'm trying to do a (simple?) LED sequencing project for a clothing item.

7 different channels.. one of each color of the rainbow. 16-20 LEDs per channel. I need them to either light up sequentially or one after another in pattern. Battery operated.

Can anyone help or point me in the right direction? Seems like there should be a ready made and relatively inexpensive LED sequencer module out there that I could just solder the LEDs to in series or something..

(yes I Googled, but still can;t find what I;m looking for. Thanks in advance..)

mudpuppy000 · Post by **mudpuppy000** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:34 pm

junglesmacks wrote:I'm trying to do a (simple?) LED sequencing project for a clothing item.

7 different channels.. one of each color of the rainbow. 16-20 LEDs per channel. I need them to either light up sequentially or one after another in pattern. Battery operated.

Can anyone help or point me in the right direction? Seems like there should be a ready made and relatively inexpensive LED sequencer module out there that I could just solder the LEDs to in series or something..

(yes I Googled, but still can;t find what I;m looking for. Thanks in advance..)

They have sequencers for EL wire, but I think EL wire is some sort of AC while you just want plain old DC for LED's. Just wire it up to a bunch of switches and flip them like mad, lol.

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:46 pm

Lol.. I'm finding easy solder at home sequencing kits, but only for like 10 LEDs max. I need to drive 70 total.. Hmmmmmmmmm...

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:48 pm

I just ordered a second batch of these babies.

http://www.ledshoppe.com/Product/led/LE5050.htm

The new ones are not quite the same as the pics in that there are now 2 outputs from the controller (but only still comes with one strip). The strip is set up in sets of 3 RGB LEDs so they can do chase patterns and such. Pretty cool alll in all, but I'm not sure it would do exactly what you want. The 9 patterns (8 really. #3 and #9 appear to be dupes).

The other way would be to program/build would own controller. I've been looking for basicly the same thing for quite some time now that that's about all I've found.

-Badger

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:55 pm

junglesmacks wrote:Lol.. I'm finding easy solder at home sequencing kits, but only for like 10 LEDs max. I need to drive 70 total.. Hmmmmmmmmm...

I've also seen "Signal booster" modules for when you need to drive more LEDs than the base driver can handle.

-Badger

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:58 pm

capjbadger wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:Lol.. I'm finding easy solder at home sequencing kits, but only for like 10 LEDs max. I need to drive 70 total.. Hmmmmmmmmm...
I've also seen "Signal booster" modules for when you need to drive more LEDs than the base driver can handle.

-Badger

Oooooo.. that sounds like we may be on to something here.

I found this kit for under $7:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... KIT/1.html

That would drive up to 10 LEDs at any speed you want and runs off of a 9v battery. If you could boost the signal and drive like 20 LEDs off of each channel, that would be the ticket.

Imagine a whole chasing sequence of LEDs running through your clothes. Yeah. I want.

mudpuppy000 · Post by **mudpuppy000** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:02 pm

You can look for a relay to power more LED's off a signal from the sequencer. You need to check whether the limitation is in the sequencer or the battery though.

Token · Post by **Token** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:34 pm

Or use the electronic version of a relay called a Switching Tranzistor.

FET & MOSFET are really popular.

Replace each LED with a FET. Connect the + led pad to the gate. Connect the - led pad to the drain via a current limiting resistor. Stick as many LEDs as the FET can handle between the battery and source. Repeat on all channels.

Token · Post by **Token** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:35 pm

Or get 7 of the chase sequencers.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:42 pm

junglesmacks wrote:
capjbadger wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:Lol.. I'm finding easy solder at home sequencing kits, but only for like 10 LEDs max. I need to drive 70 total.. Hmmmmmmmmm...
I've also seen "Signal booster" modules for when you need to drive more LEDs than the base driver can handle.

-Badger
Oooooo.. that sounds like we may be on to something here.

I found this kit for under $7:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... KIT/1.html

That would drive up to 10 LEDs at any speed you want and runs off of a 9v battery. If you could boost the signal and drive like 20 LEDs off of each channel, that would be the ticket.

Imagine a whole chasing sequence of LEDs running through your clothes. Yeah. I want.

The boosters I was thinking of are would cost you more than I think your looking to spend. They run about $25 a pop and wouldn't be good for clothing.
I missed the whole part about it being for clothing at first. How big a item of clothing are we talking? I really think that first link I posted would work well for that. I was actually thinking about doing the exact same thing with a fur coat. The strip is already sealed and flexible, which would work quite well.
You should contact them and see if they sell you an extra strip to plug into the second output. 6 feet of RGB LED in a coat would be freakin' cool.

-Badger

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:37 pm

Yeah after talking to some people, the way to do it would be to use that IC circuit as the base for the trigger. Use a 9v relay for each channel, and share the 9v battery for all channels. You could connect up to 20 LEDs on each channel with 1 9v relay. I'm ordering the hardware and will keep this thread posted on the progress. If anyone can help with a schematic or input.. fire away!

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 pm

junglesmacks wrote:Yeah after talking to some people, the way to do it would be to use that IC circuit as the base for the trigger. Use a 9v relay for each channel, and share the 9v battery for all channels. You could connect up to 20 LEDs on each channel with 1 9v relay. I'm ordering the hardware and will keep this thread posted on the progress. If anyone can help with a schematic or input.. fire away!

Hmmm... yeah, that would work. So you're going to use the 10 LED kits to fire the relays with will then fire each channel of LEDs? That should work.

I look forward to hearing the updates.

-Badger

Token · Post by **Token** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:33 pm

This will all end in tears.

You have to limit the current through the diodes or they will fry.

Relays do not limit current.

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:55 pm

Here's how to sequence LEDs:
http://www.instructables.com/id/turn-si ... ng-jacket/

Here's a video of Louise's jacket-in-progess with the Arduino Lilypad connected to her computer:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/civex/4832398745/
(20 seconds)

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:58 pm

I've been longing to understand how an arduino board works. maybe next year.
hack a set of Christmas lights that do different chase sequences perhaps in the meantime.
look at hack a day, make, and instructables and see if anybody else has done one simply.

Token · Post by **Token** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:25 pm

The Arduino is a microcontroller prototyping and development platform.

It is a powerful toy for all kinds of system control projects.

The learning curve is a bit steep if you do not have engineering or programming knowledge.

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:45 pm

Token wrote:This will all end in tears.

You have to limit the current through the diodes or they will fry.

Relays do not limit current.

This is why the correct resistor is wired inline. Figure out your total draw per channel, use correct resistor to limit the flow.

Token · Post by **Token** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:48 pm

Ok, now you are talkin'.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:10 pm

Elorrum wrote:I've been longing to understand how an arduino board works. maybe next year.
hack a set of Christmas lights that do different chase sequences perhaps in the meantime.
look at hack a day, make, and instructables and see if anybody else has done one simply.

To hell with Arduinos. So SO tired of seeing people waste their money on them to blink a few LEDs. Dig around and look up the PIC chip (PICAxe/ChipAxe). You can program them in BASIC and they are dirt cheap.

-Badger

Token · Post by **Token** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:20 pm

Huh?

The Atmel AVRs used in the Arduino boards are cheaper then the Pic processors.

I do agree that a microcontroller is overkill for simple LED sequencing.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:24 am

Token wrote:Huh?

The Atmel AVRs used in the Arduino boards are cheaper then the Pic processors.

I do agree that a microcontroller is overkill for simple LED sequencing.

Well yes. I was talking about the whole Arduino setup, not just the Atmel chip.

-Badger

Token · Post by **Token** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:43 am

From a value perspective, the Arduino is great.

The value comes from the open source nature of the solution and vast array of vendors supporting it.

The hardware can run from $15 to $70 depending on what you want to do but the utility and user community are where its at.

Any solution that gets folks more involved in geek projects is a good one in my book.

mudpuppy000 · Post by **mudpuppy000** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:57 am

Token wrote:From a value perspective, the Arduino is great.

The value comes from the open source nature of the solution and vast array of vendors supporting it.

The hardware can run from $15 to $70 depending on what you want to do but the utility and user community are where its at.

Any solution that gets folks more involved in geek projects is a good one in my book.

Those things look awesome. When I was in college we used something similar (HC11) but it was >$200, had fewer functions and you had to program it in assembly, ugh.

I'll have to get one of those and play around with it.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:22 pm

Token wrote:From a value perspective, the Arduino is great.

The value comes from the open source nature of the solution and vast array of vendors supporting it.

The hardware can run from $15 to $70 depending on what you want to do but the utility and user community are where its at.

Any solution that gets folks more involved in geek projects is a good one in my book.

There is that. Perhaps I just prefer the PIC since BASIC is such an easy language to write in.

Plus there's that whole mindset of "right tool for the job" and the Adruino is just WAY overpowered for what most people do with them. Plus the resellers charge an arm and a leg for them.

Agreed. Mo' geeks mo betta.

-Badger

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:44 am

Sooooooo..

After doing all the research and my eyes crossing with resistor values and MOSFETs and relays and sequencing circuits, I figured that due to time pressure, the best way was to just go with a basic battery powered LED string light or two off of Ebay. No muss, no fuss and cheap. They may not sequence, but simplicity at this stage of the game is key.

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:39 am

Digging this one back up, as now I have time to actually do this..

Still looking at a way to have a simple sequencing circuit to drive strings of 20 or so LEDs. After checking into it, MOSFETs are definitely the way.

My question is this: Is it as simple as using the trigger signal off of the board to trigger the gate pin on the MOSFET? Would the common DC+ be straight hooked up to the source pin? Would the MOSFET release the full load of the DC source minus the ohm drop of the individual MOSFET being used to the drain pin?

It sounds too easy. I feel like I'm missing something.

I found this site with ready made boards doing almost the exact same thing:

http://picprojects.org.uk/projects/bigm ... /index.htm

schematic here:

http://picprojects.org.uk/projects/bigm ... ematic.pdf

They even did an Indestructibles write up:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Versati ... WM-Driver/

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:51 am

BAM. The answer to the entire question:

http://picprojects.org.uk/projects/inf/drivingLEDs.pdf

or.. would I use this schematic:

http://picprojects.org.uk/projects/rgb/ ... driver.jpg

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:05 am

There are strings of addressable tricolor LEDs.

Some patterns included usually, internally.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:18 am

If I can sidetrack the thread a little bit....

My experience with soldering seriously sucks. I don't know if it's me, the gun I'm using but I can't even solder two strands of speaker wire together. I've tried 40 watt soldering irons from Radio Shack, I've got a butane soldering iron, I've got a Weller handheld soldering gun....and each time I try to do the most basic stuff I end up frustrated to no end.

So...questions. I've got tons of LED's and cool projects I can do over here. What kind of soldering iron / gun do you use for your projects? And how did you learn to use it? Can you recommend any books or guides of any kind? At least I can't mess up crimp connectors but they have their limitations. In short...HELP....as I'd like to try and work with the 2 Arduinos I received as a gift and see if I can salvage the pieces of el-wire and the sequencer I have...and that means I need to slay the soldering demon once and for all.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:27 am

Are you using electronics solder?

Is your tip tinned and clean?

I use irons from butane to 200 watt irons.
Want to get a $3 special from hf too.

Proper tips do matter.

Corroded wire can be hard.

LED sequencing/supplies

LED sequencing/supplies

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