Burning Man, doing it right.

[The Drifter]

.....Even when more people are doing it wrong?

A thought provoking conversation between between LONG time Burners.

http://shoestringvagabond.activeboard.com/index.spark?aBID=128826&p=3&topicID=37027360

As the culture changes what will become of Burning Man? I really don't know the answer....

Love to hear any feedback.

[teardropper]

Burning Man is dead. Long live Burning Man.

[Ugly Dougly]

Whatev.

[Fire_Moose]

If yer doing it right, you are SO not doing it right.

[Malachi Constant]

My theory is Burning Man will eventually degrade into a series of pointless, esoteric online conversations.

[Trishntek]

Yeah? well,,,, prove me wrong,,,, go ahead,,,, show everyone how right i am!

[Token]

Ok, pay attention and sing ...

[Token]

Sex dwarf, doing it right!

Luring disco dollies to a life of vice.

[moonrise]

Seems "the drifter" sure is P O'd

I asked, on his site, "what did the law enforcement do that got them so riled up"

I'm a virgin and the web site is helping me because I am partially disabled but, the negative comments are a bit of a downer.

Charging rich spoiled brats extra for RV's and giving the dough to artists work sounded just fine to me.

I will bring what I can afford, before my injury it would have been much better but I can add my small scale art and join in.

My situation is semi unique, due to serious injury but hmmm...how do I get rid of the downer feeling?

Also, I hope the event (over the future years?!) doesn't turn into an online esoteric bunch of fulff...I can finally WALK and I like art and I want to be able to attend in PERSON and do some interesting art on a manageable scale for a recovering injured parson and part time artist.

I have rarely met a SMARTER MORE EDUCATED ARTISTIC crowd of people as here on eplaya and some local folks that are long time burners.

Gracias!

[penrose]

I like the idea of charging more for RVs. Anything you can sleep, cook and shower in pays an extra C-note. Or three. I don't care how it's justified, if people are able to spend more to be comfy, then they are willing to spend more to be comfy. Churn the extra money back into low-income ticket subsidies or something. (Disclosure: I always pay full price.)

[moonrise]

I think he said charge extra for generators also.

Yea, the artists would probably like that, and lower ticket prices and maybe dpw so they can eat at Brunos once ina while. A cool dpw dood helped me out with my SUV there once...looong story....

[Frankenstipe]

Dude it's Burning Man, the only right way is your way.

[Fire_Moose]

And Larry's way.

[AntiM]

In my camp, that would be MyLarry's way.

[AntiM]

A dead frog in the middle of the road
That's smashed into nothing but a pavement stain {Y'know, this is messed up!}
Has got a better chance of giving her what she needs
I'm telling you, it's eating up my brain.
A piece of fish in a box that's sitting
In the freezer section of your local super-store {This a song?!}
It has a better chance of making her happy now
I'm going nuts if I think anymore.

I'm insane; my brain died {I'm insane, my brain's fried}
I've gone mad and I'll tell you why {It says "fried" here, man!}
I'm insane; my life's gone {I'm...I...this isn't even on the lyric sheet!}
Let me tell you what's going on: {OK, here we go}

*She left me for a destitute quadrapeligic
*Because of the good sex
He lives in a cardboard box, slobbers on himself {He lives in a big...OK...}
Baby, that's good sex. {...that's good sex}
*She left me for a destitute quadrapeligic
*Because of the good sex
*She picked up on him 'cause she couldn't find a salamander
*Baby, that's good sex
{Yeah, good.}

A busted chair that's sitting in a dump
That's covered with vomit is better than me
At giving her the very thing she wants
And I hear them asking what's bothering me {I'm supposed to SING with this.}
A hunk of dog meat in a septic tank {OK...}
That floats all around in a sea of slime
Is better than me in bed and I'm doing
Real good if I was nothing but a waste of time {OK, here we go...}

I'm insane; my brain died {I'm insane, my brain's...}
I've gone mad and I'll tell you why {I...I...I can't keep up, man.}
I'm insane; my life's gone {I'm insa...this...this isn't even on here!}
Let me tell you what's going on: {OK, here we go}

*She left me for a destitute quadrapeligic
*Because of the good sex
He loves eating dog food, can't control his bowels {...dog food...man, this is...}
Hey, baby, that's good sex. {This is GROSS, man!!}
*She left me for a destitute quadrapeligic
*Because of the good sex
She wants to get married right now before he gets away {She wants to get...hey...Red Shwartz!}
Shut up, man...that's good sex {Yeah...reverb!}

[Eric]

I like the idea of charging more for RVs. Anything you can sleep, cook and shower in pays an extra C-note. Or three. I don't care how it's justified, if people are able to spend more to be comfy, then they are willing to spend more to be comfy. Churn the extra money back into low-income ticket subsidies or something. (Disclosure: I always pay full price.)

Or charge people who want to sleep in tents & act "burnier than thou" because of it that extra c-note, because they obviously "get" the event more that people who share RV's and should pay more to support it.

And those damn people in Hexayurts? Who the hell do they think they are in their air-conditioned tombs being more comfortable than a dirty hippie sleeping on a couch in Center Camp anyway?

Meh.

This argument between tent & RV has been done to death. Charging someone more because they choose to sleep in a different structure than you do is as ridiculous as charging someone more because they have too many costumes. I mean, obviously they don't need the costumes, and that money could go to fund......

Get over it. Not everyone in an RV is some rich snob too good for the event- in fact you'll find a lot of the people from your favorite theme camps in them. Tell them to spend more so they can be comfortable while giving you "free" drinks they've spent thousands on. See how well that works out.

[theCryptofishist]

I am in awe of AntiM's knowledge of really weird songs.

[Captain Goddammit]

I like the idea of charging more for RVs. Anything you can sleep, cook and shower in pays an extra C-note. Or three. I don't care how it's justified, if people are able to spend more to be comfy, then they are willing to spend more to be comfy. Churn the extra money back into low-income ticket subsidies or something. (Disclosure: I always pay full price.)

You sound like a perfect stupid hippie!
Look asswipe, my first burn I went in a borrowed pickup truck with an old camper that had been dropped, that I patched up good enough to use. I probably had LESS money into it all than a lot of the tent campers did.
Even my current setup is all stuff I spent lots of time scrounging for deals on because I'm not some rich aristocrat.
Losers like you who have nothing entirely because you're either stupid, lazy, or both don't deserve a fucking cent extra from guys like me who probably have no more $$ than you do, we just work harder, and if we want an RV we find a way to deal/trade/fix our way into one.
Your poor-me, screw those guys who try harder attitude will keep you down. Good, stay down.

[Frankenstipe]

[quote="Malachi Constant"]My theory is Burning Man will eventually degrade into a series of pointless, esoteric online conversations.[/quote]

This man just won, thread over....or is it just beginning, fuck. :?

[swampdog]

If yer doing it right, you are SO not doing it right.

That is so perfect.

[geekster]

"I like the idea of charging more for RVs."

I don't.

"Churn the extra money back into low-income ticket subsidies or something."

Why don't YOU kick in an extra "c-note"? I love it how people are so charitable with other people's money.

I camp in a tent. Some of my camp mates camp in an RV. SOME of the people in RVs are real asshats that insulate themselves from the event, but not all of them are. RVs are not a problem at burning man; an asshat would be an asshat if they are in an RV or a tent or a pop up.

[moonrise]

I think The Drifter is P O'd at the non participant/contributing burners...the spectators/tourists, those types.

My pals explained (er uh tried to explain) it;

Contributing artists have learned to use Rv's and earned those Rv's. Funny thing, if any fee charged, it could just be given back to a participating/contributing aritst, or participating/contributor of the event whom Rv it...lmao...but what do I know though...I'm a virgin...(and my grammar is lousy...please read between the lines!)

I'm busy getting ready to tent it...thank goodness for eplaya and the burners who offered enough help for me to start packing and actually, finally get my partially disabled self out there!

My original plans to get involved have crumbled (more than once) I came here to sell my ticket in defeat...the help here at eplaya has turned me back around, back on track!!!!....a total 180!!!!

Gracias gang!

[AntiM]

However, the people who are not doing it right are the ones (there have been two this year) who ask about a hotel "near" the playa. What? Why? And no. I don't care if they build the Man with their teeth and shit emergen-c packets to save us all from withering away in the heat, and create masterpieces of flame and light and gold, burners stay on the playa. Whatever their accommodations, they stay on the playa.

[ygmir]

there's always a segment of society, who, wants to be on the receiving end of "Robin Hood", getting "someone" to take from people who "they" think have too much (read more than them) and, give to "them".

[teardropper]

Yeah, I'd be bummed if I had to pay more for my ancient, no air, RV. Wouldn't be right.

[Lassen Forge]

Yeah, me too. (Hell, I might get the AC fixed someday, that'd show 'em, huh??)

Now let me tell you why I love CGD it so much...

I like the idea of charging more for RVs. Anything you can sleep, cook and shower in pays an extra C-note. Or three. I don't care how it's justified, if people are able to spend more to be comfy, then they are willing to spend more to be comfy. Churn the extra money back into low-income ticket subsidies or something. (Disclosure: I always pay full price.)

You sound like a perfect stupid hippie!
Look asswipe, my first burn I went in a borrowed pickup truck with an old camper that had been dropped, that I patched up good enough to use. I probably had LESS money into it all than a lot of the tent campers did.
Even my current setup is all stuff I spent lots of time scrounging for deals on because I'm not some rich aristocrat.
Losers like you who have nothing entirely because you're either stupid, lazy, or both don't deserve a fucking cent extra from guys like me who probably have no more $$ than you do, we just work harder, and if we want an RV we find a way to deal/trade/fix our way into one.
Your poor-me, screw those guys who try harder attitude will keep you down. Good, stay down.

I started in a tent. I did it for years. I cooked on a fucked up coleman. I use lanterns for light. AND I also am part of running a theme camp so burners (like you) can come by and watch me and partake of my fracking hard work. I finally bought an old RV, that needed (and still needs) more work than it takes than to moop center camp, so I could do more shit at BRC. So our fracking camp can run closer to 24 hours rather than 12. So I can cook for a buttload of folk who we share space with. And so I can offer someone else or 3 a place to hang when the whiteout hits.

Telling me that you are more entitled than I because I drive my dilapidated POS to the burn rather than sleep in a holier than thou tent is not only non-burner, it's... um... male cattle defecated material.

Why don't YOU pay an extra C note (OR THREE) because you give a shit, so YOU can help support low income ticket sales, etc... instead of putting forth this whole "If you have an RV you must be more entitled, ergo ipso facto you will pay extra, and I always pay full price for my ticket" sanctamonious elitist crap? And don't give me this berkleyesque socialist repressed bullshit - Socialism means you work your ass off MORE and use the tools you can get to make it work BETTER, HARDER, and SMARTER, not be a whiny snit. Don't throw Socialist Dogma at me, darling... I can dish it out pretty good, and my family, as well as my camp,, earned that right.

Just to be clear - I get the cheapest ticket I can - even at the expense of working during the event - so I can put more INTO the event. I'm not just a lowlife civil servant, I'm a civil servant who got the crap cut out of her pay, can barely afford to make her rent, and worries that she'll never catch up, and you want ME to pay EXTRA so I can participate MORE, to make the burn cool?

In closing... I concur 110% with the good Captain's comment. Quit trying to figure out how to take more from others, and put in more yourself.

[Hoolie]

I don't begrudge anyone who stays in an RV, especially if they are making valuable contributions elsewhere in the city (and many of them do). However, I do advocate a tent-only section somewhere within the main city, i.e. not isolated and banished to the outskirts like the walk-in section. It could start small, with say 1/8 of the city designated as tent-only. I guarantee spaces there would be in high demand were it implemented. Such setups are not unusual in standard recreational camping areas. Many of them have separate sections for RVs and tents. I wrote BRC LLC with such a proposal a while back, but never got a response.

[Lassen Forge]

... However, I do advocate a tent-only section somewhere within the main city, i.e. not isolated and banished to the outskirts like the walk-in section. ... I wrote BRC LLC with such a proposal a while back, but never got a response.

In the spirit of...


wait for it...




RADICAL SELF RELIANCE...





If you want it, start a theme camp. Call it - hell, call it Tent City.

If it's really as popular as you think, it will grow by leaps and bounds. If not, then it will be a rude awakening.



I'm not surprised you didn't get a response - because unlike VILLAGES which have proven themselves to hold to whatever theme and popularity and whatnot, where they *do* have their own rules, BRC and in particular the LLC is NOT into divvying up the city like that. At least not now.

The key phrase is INCLUSION, not EXCLUSION. I would say that's why you didn't get a response - nothing in that is meant to promote community of different people; actually, it's kinda anti-community.

So yeah, practice some RSR and get a bunch together and start a theme camp. Maybe it will grow into a village. Who knows?

[Hoolie]

I'm not surprised you didn't get a response - because unlike VILLAGES which have proven themselves to hold to whatever theme and popularity and whatnot, where they *do* have their own rules, BRC and in particular the LLC is NOT into divvying up the city like that. At least not now.

The key phrase is INCLUSION, not EXCLUSION. I would say that's why you didn't get a response - nothing in that is meant to promote community of different people; actually, it's kinda anti-community.

Exclusion already exists in the city. The walk-in section is doubly exclusive: vehicles are not allowed and it's isolated in the outskirts. Why not just move it into the city proper, thereby making it more inclusive? There are other restrictions too. For example, if your sound system exceeds 300 watts, out to the edge you go. Your argument would have merit if the city were a true free-for-all, but it is not. Anyway, I don't believe that's the reason I didn't get a response. Does BRC LLC really only respond to people they agree with?

[Lassen Forge]

Exclusion already exists in the city. The walk-in section is doubly exclusive: vehicles are not allowed and it's isolated in the outskirts. Why not just move it into the city proper, thereby making it more inclusive? There are other restrictions too. For example, if your sound system exceeds 300 watts, out to the edge you go. Your argument would have merit if the city were a true free-for-all, but it is not. Anyway, I don't believe that's the reason I didn't get a response. Does BRC LLC really only respond to people they agree with?

Hmmm... I note you'd rather argue than take my suggestion. Fine. I'm not here for an argument, I'm here to book a vacation.

Serious - you want to do something like this, start small (theme camp), and work big (village and etc.) IF it's a workable idea - I guarantee you the llc will notice it.

That's likely why they didn't answer you - words mean little, actions mean BOATLOADS!If you don't know that you don't know the llc.

Thank you for your participation. Now back to planning my vacation currently in progress..

What's the point of going to the playa if you're just another tourist carted around in rusty antiquated art cars surrounded by sweaty mindless shirtcockers from Boston and Dallas and god forbid Europe in their buttondown shirts and no pants and body paint and transistor radios blaring WTF and BMIR and KSVERT and their Monday Piss Clear complaining about the beer - "Oh they don't make it properly here, do they, not like at home" - and stopping at Center Camp selling coffee and ice and stale Watney's Red Barrel and mindless commerce and stare at the man in the distance and sitting in their skivvies squirting Coppertone with Aloe all over their puffy raw swollen purulent flesh 'cos they "overdid it on the first day?

And being herded into endless domes and tents and RV's, and Yurts and Villages with their modern international luxury trailer-ettes and draught Red Barrel and wading pools full of fat German businessmen pretending they're ravers forming pyramids and frightening the children and barging into queues and if you're not at Hushville by seven you miss the bowl of Campbell's Cream of Mushroom soup, the first item on the menu of International Cuisine, and every Thursday night the Kantina has a bloody cabaret in the bar, featuring a tiny emaciated burner with nine-inch hips and some bloated fat tart with her hair brylcreemed down and a big arse presenting Bulgarian for Burners...

And then some adenoidal typists from Los Angeles with flabby white legs and diarrhoea trying to pick up hairy bandy-legged DPW workers called Bruce and Bruce and Bruce and once a week there's an excursion to the local store in Empire to buy fermented cherryade and melted ice cream and bleeding Watney's Red Barrel and one evening you visit the so called typical theme camp with local colour and atmosphere and you sit next to a party from Ely who keep singing "Torremolinos, torremolinos" and complaining about the booze - "It's so strong isn't it?" - and you get cornered by some drunken mercanery from Thunderdome with an Instamatic camera and Dr. Scholl hob nail boots and last Tuesday's Piss Clear and he drones on and on about how he should be running this place better than Mister Harvey and how many solar cells that AEZ has and he throws up over the raw vodka shots and PBRs...

And spending four days on the tarmac at BRC International from thrusday on with nothing to eat but dried out MRE's and you can't even get a drink of Watney's Red Barrel because you're still technically outside BRC and the bloody bar at the airport closes every time you're thirsty and there's nowhere to sleep and the kids are crying and vomiting and breaking the and they keep telling you it'll only be another hour although your plane is still outside the trash fence and has to take some Norweigand to find some herring before it can load you up at 3 a.m. in the bloody morning and you sit on the tarmac till six because of "unforeseen difficulties", i.e. the sun ain''t up yet - and nobody can go to the lavatory until you take off at 8, and when you get to Winnemucca airport everybody's swallowing ludes and coffee and queuing for the toilets and queuing for the armed Nevada Highway patrollmen and the contingent of BLM Rangers, and queuing for the bloody bus that isn't there to take you into town to a safeway that hasn't yet been finished.

And when you finally get to the half-built Algerian ruin called the Hotel del Sol by paying half your holiday money to a licensed bandit in a taxi you find there's no water in the pool, there's no water in the taps, there's no water in the toilet and there's only a bleeding lizard in the bed. And most the rooms are double booked and you can't sleep anyway because of the permanent twenty-four-hour drilling of the foundations of the new casino next door - and you're plagued by appalling wannabe burners from East Winnemucca pretending to be hippies, and middle-class stockmen's wives' busily buying identical kitchen aprons and oven mitts in the local wallyworld, in case the Economy dumps again, and fat American matrons with sloppy-buttocks and Hawaiian-patterned ski pants looking for any male who can keep it up long enough when they finally let it all flop out.

And the Nevada Tourist Board promises you that the raging cholera epidemic is merely a mild cold, like the previous outbreak of mild flu in 1918 which decimated Europe and America and god only knows where else, - and meanwhile the bloody Winnemucca PD are busy arresting sixteen-year-olds for kissing in the streets and shooting anyone under nineteen who doesn't like Franco.

And then on the last day in the airport lounge back at BRC everyone's comparing sunburns, drinking Nasty playa water, hoparding blinkies and cartons of duty free "Marlboros" and using up their last pesetas on horrid coffee from Center Camp and awful dead glowsticks and bits of faked ashes from the man that are really from a burn barrel next to the JOTS at DPW and 3-D pictures of the Larry the Hat and the rest of the LLC gang and everybody's talking about coming again next year and you swear you never will although there you are tumbling bleary-eyed out of a tourist-tight antique broken art car...