Rumor mill: Last year at this location?

[junglesmacks]

Easy on the flaming, but I've heard it from people supposedly "in the know" that this may be the last year at the Gerlach BRC location.. that there are some problems behind the scene brewing and they may need to find a different site next year.

Has anywhere heard anything of the like?

[goathead]

last years

problems behind the scene brewing and they may need to find a different site next year.

where much better.

[geekster]

I have my suspicions as there are some cards lining up in that direction but anything I might have to say is just idle speculation that probably isn't that productive. I will say, though, that the government powers that be might be killing a golden goose. The permit process is ridiculous, the fees levied on the event are ridiculous, I just don't think the current process is sustainable anymore.

[Sham]

These stupid government bureaucrats don't know when they are going too far. They will in fact ruin a good thing for themselve--and then stand there with that standard stupid look on their faces trying to figure out what happened. Inherently dumb is such a dangerous thing.

Once they make it cheaper for the organization to buy it's own land and do it there, they will have lost everything.

[junglesmacks]

I mean, as we all know.. it's always only a matter of time before too much of a good thing becomes too much of a good thing and the population en masse finds out about it and ruins the whole gig. Check out what happened at the Love Parade this year.

[gaminwench]

heard this now for how many years? mmm, 4 or 5, at least...

It'll be better next year, either way...

[geekster]

Let me revise and extend my previous comment:

What I meant to say was that I see some cards lining up that have the potential to allow such a thing as moving the event at some point in the future. I believe the current permit was approved in 2006 and goes until this year as it was a 5 year permit. So BMORG is going to need to go through the permit process again for 2011. It didn't sound like fun last time and the process probably won't be fun this time either.

Now the event did move to private property one year and came right back to the playa.

There were political problems with Washoe County, and a fee for fire and sheriff's protection was levied at $350,000. Press reports of County Commissioner meetings made it seem as if the event wouldn't happen, ultimately affecting ticket sales. To make matters worse, 100% of gate ticket sales were impounded at the gate by the sheriff's office to cover those costs. They never made their take and were onsite until Saturday afternoon. When the dust settled, there were only 10,000 participants and Burning Man was $200,000 in debt.

So even though the event was on private property, Washoe county still assessed a $350,000 fee and impounded all gate sales. So moving to private property isn't a panacea.

[junglesmacks]

Now the event did move to private property one year and came right back to the playa.

There were political problems with Washoe County, and a fee for fire and sheriff's protection was levied at $350,000. Press reports of County Commissioner meetings made it seem as if the event wouldn't happen, ultimately affecting ticket sales. To make matters worse, 100% of gate ticket sales were impounded at the gate by the sheriff's office to cover those costs. They never made their take and were onsite until Saturday afternoon. When the dust settled, there were only 10,000 participants and Burning Man was $200,000 in debt.

What year is that quote from?

[Eric]

1997- the event was moved to Hualapai Valley near Black Rock.

[Token]

BMORG is profitable, has been for years.

Ever since they started buying up real-estate in NV, the books have been in the green.

The data is in the Afterburn reports if you are inclined to dig. Last time I looked they cleared 10M in profits over the past decade, maybe more.

Considering they looked at buying Fly Ranch as well as a new HQ building in SF ... I doubt they are hit hard cash wise.

How long the party goes on depends on desire more than anything else. The money and brand are there.

[ibdave]

I have wondered about this also. Looking at Maid Marian's post, the LLC is making some big changes. Big changes can mean many things.... I'm just saying......

[geekster]

I wasn't worried about the "in debt" part of that report. The point is that when you get onto private land, the county involved can then pretty much do whatever it wants as far as permits. If it on public land, especially federal public land, the county is more limited in what it can do.

[Trishntek]

Since rumors are the thread, I heard awhile back BMORG was buying land in Texas.

[geekster]

http://blog.burningman.com/eventshappen ... ans-plans/

[ygmir]

the LLC is going to take over Bonners Ferry in ID and seceded from the Union........
then, we'll only need passport.

[pbmaniac2000]

There had been some talks about buying a chunk of property on the other end of the playa that is private property. Last I heard though the guy kept raising his price, and the ORG said forget about it. I guess he was asking $8 million for the property. Its probably worth about $200,000 if that.

It will be very interesting to see what happens with the permit process next year. I know a lot of people who use the playa during other times of the year have been complaining about the "sand worms." They are starting to become a problem, and may have an effect on permit renewal.

[MistressSybs]

Since rumors are the thread, I heard awhile back BMORG was buying land in Texas.

Funny I heard a rumor like that too while at Flipside but I personally have my doubts of BM going off ok in Texas for the following reasons:

Difficulty finding land to have it on:
This year's Flipside was moved to Apache Pass which I heard went off great... but FS is capped at 2640 I believe. But in the past 5 years I think Flipside has been moved twice now.

First from Rec Plant *where it literally outgrew the land* to the ranch it was on for about 3 years.

They left the ranch because I think the owner wanted to sell and was also catching flack from neighbors because some of our silly assed burners 3 years ago had a stupid sound camp pissing contest with another camp... ergo we now have sound marshalls and a full sound policy... obviously that year probably put Hughes ranch and Flipside more on the radar for the locals.

Drought Issues:
Add to that drought issues *not this year* that in 09 equated to a pulled down effigy rather than an actual burned one... burners love fire... every year we anxiously await the news... are we going to have a burn ban?

LEOs, the Biblebelt mentality and Rave Culture: ***
I just don't see Texas hosting BM, not with our 'good ole boy' LEOs, biblebelt mentality as well as the fact that the rave act got it's beginnings here after Transit in 2000 was covered by KPRC Channel 2 Houston.

And although BM is NOT all about the rave - the rave culture lives and breathes in the burn community whether the rock & roll burners like it or not... From the grumblings I would have thought if you, collectively, could have found a way to get rid of the rave kiddies you would have.

*** we're edjumacated rave/rock&roll burners - who edjumacate anyone we bring with.

Just my two bits of copper - they do still contain at least a trace amount of copper right? LOL

[MistressSybs]

There had been some talks about buying a chunk of property on the other end of the playa that is private property. Last I heard though the guy kept raising his price, and the ORG said forget about it. I guess he was asking $8 million for the property. Its probably worth about $200,000 if that.

It will be very interesting to see what happens with the permit process next year. I know a lot of people who use the playa during other times of the year have been complaining about the "sand worms." They are starting to become a problem, and may have an effect on permit renewal.

Sand Worms?

[theCryptofishist]

There had been some talks about buying a chunk of property on the other end of the playa that is private property. Last I heard though the guy kept raising his price, and the ORG said forget about it. I guess he was asking $8 million for the property. Its probably worth about $200,000 if that.

It will be very interesting to see what happens with the permit process next year. I know a lot of people who use the playa during other times of the year have been complaining about the "sand worms." They are starting to become a problem, and may have an effect on permit renewal.

Sand Worms?

Also called "Playa Serpents." Maybe best described as small dunes, that move over the playa with the wind, composed of loose dust. The thought is that the number of people on the playa increases the dust, which increases the number of these snaking across the playa.

[MistressSybs]

There had been some talks about buying a chunk of property on the other end of the playa that is private property. Last I heard though the guy kept raising his price, and the ORG said forget about it. I guess he was asking $8 million for the property. Its probably worth about $200,000 if that.

It will be very interesting to see what happens with the permit process next year. I know a lot of people who use the playa during other times of the year have been complaining about the "sand worms." They are starting to become a problem, and may have an effect on permit renewal.

Sand Worms?

Also called "Playa Serpents." Maybe best described as small dunes, that move over the playa with the wind, composed of loose dust. The thought is that the number of people on the playa increases the dust, which increases the number of these snaking across the playa.

OH! Thank you... I was searching like organic living worms wondering if they're camel spider food? LOL

[geekster]

Look at some of the requirements that would be needed:

1. A place where stuff can burn without setting half the world on fire and can be done reliably year after year.

2. A place that is relatively level so that large art can be placed and constructed.

3. Large enough to host an event with 50,000 people

4. Not so far away from infrastructure that the org can have living/working accommodations before and after the event and during the "off season" to repair/replace things.

The playa is perfect for the event. The problem comes in with government. We have a government that has blown all its money and made promises to people that it is having trouble keeping. I believe it is likely they are going to squeeze every possible revenue source for every penny they can get from it. The question is if they will squeeze so hard that the break it. Government doesn't seem to get the notion that 80% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

Now maybe the choice of county might make a difference. There are other playas in Nevada but there is a lot invested right there at the Black Rock. I guess more burners need to move to those counties (Pershing/Washoe) and vote.

[CapSmashy]

Difficulty finding land to have it on:
This year's Flipside was moved to Apache Pass which I heard went off great... but FS is capped at 2640 I believe. But in the past 5 years I think Flipside has been moved twice now.

Land is ample, especially in west Texas.

Flipside attendance is capped due to outdoor event permitting issues. There is supposed to be some lobbying going on to get the limits pushed to 5000 before state level permitting kicks in.

Flipside also has had issues with recruitment of volunteers. If the legislation gets pushed to a 5000 participant cap, it will be very interesting to see how that issue is resolved.

In terms of their location this year, I was not a fan. We were out in No Man's Land (open camping) and the walk into the effigy was the equivalent of parking out on "G" at Burning Man and walking to the man. On the Playa, its not that big of a deal since there is a ton to see and do on that trek and a bunch of different paths to take so you see something new every time you make the hike.

Drought Issues:
Add to that drought issues *not this year* that in 09 equated to a pulled down effigy rather than an actual burned one... burners love fire... every year we anxiously await the news... are we going to have a burn ban?

An issues anywhere you have an event that is not a desert.

LEOs, the Biblebelt mentality and Rave Culture: ***
I just don't see Texas hosting BM, not with our 'good ole boy' LEOs, biblebelt mentality as well as the fact that the rave act got it's beginnings here after Transit in 2000 was covered by KPRC Channel 2 Houston.

I really think it would depend on location in the state. I do not see Texas law enforcement being any worse than Nevada law enforcement. The local LEO's brought in for Burning Man come from deeply conservative areas in the state. If you haven't read it, check out the law enforcement section of the Afterburn report from last year.

Just my two bits of copper - they do still contain at least a trace amount of copper right? LOL

LOL. Not much these days. Useless trivia, it costs the US treasury ~1.7 cents to mint a penny these days.

[CapSmashy]

Back on point, I sincerely doubt BM would be moving any significant distance from where the event is currently held.

For arguments sake, let's say they did move the event to Texas.

The most obvious issue would be the loss of a huge chunk of the core population, from volunteer staff to long time participants.

[theCryptofishist]

Back on point, I sincerely doubt BM would be moving any significant distance from where the event is currently held.

For arguments sake, let's say they did move the event to Texas.

The most obvious issue would be the loss of a huge chunk of the core population, from volunteer staff to long time participants.

Agreed. Nevada, maybe Oregon, or Idaho or Arizona...

[Fire_Moose]

AZ has an amazing BM community...jus' sayin'...

[geekster]

Ok, so imagine for a moment that BM moves. What happens to the work ranch in Gerlach? The office in Gerlach? In my opinion the must sustainable thing would be to move more infrastructure out to the area where it is now and have more of a year-round operation out there. Which from reading the blogs is what they are apparently thinking of doing.

If BM becomes more of an ongoing concern and contributes more to the local economy on a year-round basis, it becomes in the interest of the local government to support that.

So imagine a conference center is built on Fly and over time it evolves to the point where a lot is going on there. Then maybe Gerlach can support a small dry goods and hardware store, maybe a caterer, who knows. But the possibility is there for some ongoing activity to provide a certain amount of economic stimulus to the local area. Combining that with BMs tradition of giving to the local community schools and such, one would think the local government might then try to do what it can in order to nurture the operation and not try to squeeze it to death.

But lately governments haven't been much in the "nurture" mode when it comes to businesses, either for profit or not for profit corporations.

[Fire_Moose]

Man i can just imagine how PISSED the Gerlachians would be if it got closer and closer to a year round thing...new stores popping up, more people visiting randomly...

[CapSmashy]

Man i can just imagine how PISSED the Gerlachians would be if it got closer and closer to a year round thing...new stores popping up, more people visiting randomly...

That's an extremely valid point. People don't move to places like Gerlach or the high desert and bemoan the lack of people or services.

[geekster]

Gerlach used to have a lot more business when it actually had a railroad station and trains stopped there. The town isn't at all what it used to be. Most of the old timers will remember a Gerlach that was a lot busier than today.

Gerlach Circa 1972

[youtube][/youtube]

[BAS]

http://blog.burningman.com/eventshappen ... ans-plans/

What eventually happened with this plan? Are they still negotiating, a year or so later?

Thanks.