More injuries this year?

MedullaB · Post by **MedullaB** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:16 am

This is a broad observation I know, but it seemed to me there were WAY more people not lit up on the playa at night this year and driving recklessly? A guy in the camp next to us broke his leg when he was knocked off his bike by an unlit biker - and it seemed like I saw a ton more people with crutches, splints and wrapped up appendages this year.

Anyone heard about actual numbers from the medical tent?

Just curious.

M

Post by **Savannah** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:56 am

It took a while for the 2009 medical stats to surface, so I imagine it'll take a while for the 2010 numbers to be available. You can read last year's report here to see their basic report:

http://afterburn.burningman.com/09/play ... gency.html

. . . And thereby extrapolate approximately where the 2010 afterburn report will be.

Re: 2009 stats--when they released them several months back, I was fascinated to read that there were so few alcohol-&-drug-related ESD contacts in a city of 45K, where I would wager 40-50% of the population are actually indulging at any one time. To me, this indicates that people are doing a pretty good job of radical self-reliance with the pedialyte the morning after, or have campmates with whom they trade off a little nursing, hopefully. Taking care of their own.

This was my first year volunteering at ESD, & while I wasn't there every day, I can count on one hand the number of people I glimpsed who sought help specifically for overindulgence (and only one of those is currently memorable; poor dude). I was more likely to see entirely coherent people who cut themselves or wrenched joints while intoxicated (and a majority who did it sober while setting up camp).

sun4all · Post by **sun4all** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:40 pm

Here's an article on the REMSA medical tent along with an overview of injuries that happened on the Playa

http://www.rgj.com/article/20100906/EVENTS04/309060001

uski · Post by **uski** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:34 am

This was my first burn and I was extremely surprised to see so many people unlit at night (bikes and pedestrians).

I think this is totally irresponsible and having lights should be mandatory (come on, two $2 bike lights are enough, one on the front and one on the back - also works for people and I've seen many people with bike lights on their backpack - it's ugly but it works).

I think that an unlit pedestrian is as dangerous as an unlit bike.

Shouldn't the rangers stop unlit people/bikes ?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:07 am

Sorry, uski, but BRC doesn't work that way. Even if we had enough rangers to stop the great unlit and demand illumination, that would be too much interference in the choices of others.

Post by **Savannah** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:25 am

Shouldn't the rangers stop unlit people/bikes ?

There's just too many of them. And the Rangers have more pressing matters, unfortunately. It's up to citizens to continue to make these things part of the accepted culture. Luckily, many BRC citizens feel comfortable advising each other about this stuff already, though, on the spot. (I also like it when people advise others to slow down). ...In my first burn or two I was technically illuminated at night, but could have done even more to be seen, and people had no trouble letting me know or pressing extra glow sticks on me. The education worked (so far, knock on wood). I've never been hit, and I share my glowsticks when I have extra. The average person, like me, doesn't want to be a pain in the ass, or get hit by something.

ETA: Good article, sun4all. Thanks!

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:46 am

Its called personal responsibility.
I know when I would visit an outhouse at night, I left my bike lit.

crumpets · Post by **crumpets** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:48 am

I was unlit once at night. I was working a Temple Guardian shift with my friend, and were on the 6pm till 9pm shift.

We left camp excited and happy and in a whirlwind of joy and happy.

When we were done, we walked back to camp dark, afraid, and feeling pretty darn stupid.

Lesson: ALWAYS carry lights with you, just as you always carry water. Even if you're going to the potties at like 10am. You just never know what the Playa has in store for you.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:08 am

Thats why I left the MnG around 7:15. I took the light off my bike so it would'nt fall off or get borrowed during he day and forgot put it back on when I went to the said event.

Parasitoid · Post by **Parasitoid** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:05 pm

Heyo.

I'm no darkwad but I gotta defend them a little by saying you are all blowing the danger of walking around without a light on WAY out of proportion.

It's not as if being lit up means you are going to notice everyone else or everyone else is going to notice you.

I didn't bring a bike this year but I had no less than two people, no idea if they were lit up or not because i don't give a shit, run directly into me with their bikes. Un-surprisingly no serious injury occurred and I gave them hugs and sent them on their way glad to have had an interaction with someone.

I love you all and hope for everyone a huge amount of glowy goodness.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:46 am

Parasitoid wrote:Heyo.

I'm no darkwad but I gotta defend them a little by saying you are all blowing the danger of walking around without a light on WAY out of proportion.

It's not as if being lit up means you are going to notice everyone else or everyone else is going to notice you.

I didn't bring a bike this year but I had no less than two people, no idea if they were lit up or not because i don't give a shit, run directly into me with their bikes. Un-surprisingly no serious injury occurred and I gave them hugs and sent them on their way glad to have had an interaction with someone.

I love you all and hope for everyone a huge amount of glowy goodness.

Seriously?

How well do you do under a car at 5 mph?
Or a leo vehicle with tinted windows and no lights going 40 mph across the playa?

And fyi, enough people die every year in the usa in slow speed bike incidents to make a case for helmets.

Remsa has enough stories about bike and pedestrian injuries already.

And serious bikers carry a great deal of blame for all this too.
We had one of those "block off the streets and piss off drivers" bike rides, and there were almost no bikes well lit enough that I would see them at an intersection...at all.

With LEDs and reflector technology being what it is, there is no real excuse.

The good thing is, no one unlit is likely to be able to sue you after you hit them.

Leg lights visible in all directions (and moving) date back at least to the sixties.

Are you visible against the glare of other lights?
How about if the other person has dusty glasses, dusty goggles and a dusty windshield, inside and out?
That's six layers of glare.

Dust storms in the sun create the worst visibility problems.
Can you be seen?

If you only hit another bike, odds are you won't lose more than a collarbone and the rest of your burn.
Too bad there's more than bikes out there.

Parasitoid · Post by **Parasitoid** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:37 am

ya im serious. I'm not going to fall under a slow moving car due to the amount of lights on my body.

Sounds like a lot of people are more concerned about freeing themselves from any liability of hurting someone than real safety.

Wearing a reflector is going to increase my safety? Get real. The only threatening scenario I see raised is the one of the car going 40mph and I am fairly certain that after someone gets hit by a speeding car they aren't going to point to the one or two reflectors on themselves and act like they should have been seen.

What I am expressing is that maybe some of the really awesome light up costumes attract enough attention to be considered safety measures but in my opinion the vast majority of costumes are not that bright, don't add to safety, and aren't intended to. Which is fine! There isn't really much danger in walking around out there.

The claim that poorly lit people get injured more than lit up people on the playa doesn't seem well documented.

Peace, Love, Thanks,
Parasitoid

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:51 am

Some older people loose some of thier night vision with age, so it helps if you wear a little bit of light.

Just sayin.

Pink Daddy · Post by **Pink Daddy** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:40 am

First off, that REMSA tent is awesome. Stopped in there once when a splinter was starting to get infected. They fixed me right up and it was one of the few hand injuries that healed nicely while I was out there.

Second, as an art car worker (Exploratorium/Colloseum) and part-time driver, darktards are my biggest concern. My field of vision is always obscured by the arched entrances of the art car. At 5 MPH, a person can be walking at just the right spot, towards the art car, that they would be completely obscured by the arch... until it was too late. Granted, 5 MPH might not seem very fast, but I'm sure it doesn't feel good to be hit by it blindsided. Bikes travel MUCH faster than 5 MPH and more than one have had near collisions with us, regardless of how many lights we have mounted and lit.

Don't get me started on the LEOs sprinting across playa at 60 MPH, being the single most dangerous thing in open playa...

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:57 am

Looking forward to more statistics, less jibber-jabber.

CornStar · Post by **CornStar** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:19 pm

I agree being lit doesn't necessarily seem to be a huge danger ... but its such an easy thing to do. One or two glow sticks around your neck can make a huge difference. You might think that while walking at a reasonable speed you can take everything in, but what you see isn't always what someone else sees. I must say though, headlights on pedestrians did me more harm than good. I was more often blinded by folks wearing them than I was alerted to seeing someone I otherwise wouldn't have. If you happen to be someone that always walks around with a headlight on, please reconsider another source of illumination :)

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:49 am

CornStar wrote: If you happen to be someone that always walks around with a headlight on, please reconsider another source of illumination

Or, instead of pointing the light straight ahead.. tilt it to point straight down to the ground in front of you. This way you don't blind oncoming traffic, and it illuminates more of you and the ground.. increasing your overall illuminated profile.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:12 am

Darktards helped to keep the senses honed. I just thought of them as the poles on a slalom course.

crumpets · Post by **crumpets** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:13 am

[quote="junglesmacks"]Or, instead of pointing the light straight ahead.. tilt it to point straight down to the ground in front of you. This way you don't blind oncoming traffic, and it illuminates more of you and the ground.. increasing your overall illuminated profile.[/quote]

This.

A light on the ground is MUCH more visible than a light in other peoples eyes. It will illuminate you from the front, sides, AND back in one fell swoop, along with any walking companions you may have too.

And will help with finding MOOP as you walk around the Playa aimlessly.

mudpuppy000 · Post by **mudpuppy000** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:26 am

Yeah, I was wearing my headlamp around my neck most of the time, pointed down and that kept things pretty well lit. That was walking though, it's good to have it pointed forward when you're riding to see darkwads.

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:59 am

> ya im serious. I'm not going to fall under a slow moving car due to the
> amount of lights on my body.

I don't care about you. Fall down, stand up, whatever.

> Sounds like a lot of people are more concerned about freeing
> themselves from any liability of hurting someone than real safety.

You're dead wrong.

> Wearing a reflector is going to increase my safety?

Let me say again: I don't care about you. What I care about is me. I don't want to be riding my bike and running into some darkwad on the playa at night and hurting myself. It's entirely selfish. I don't care if I hurt you when I run into you; I care about me being hurt when I run into some jerkoff who's dressed in black at night and that I didn't see.

It's not my liability for anybody but me that I care about. It's my real safety that I care about. I'm too old to run over somebody on my bike and not suffer some injury as a result.

You have my permission to get run over by any art car you want. Just don't wander into my path in your drug-addled fantasies of dodging all the artcars and knock me off my bike.

> The claim that poorly lit people get injured more than lit up people
> on the playa doesn't seem well documented.

Did I mention I don't care about the darkwads being speed bumps for artcars?

Peace, Love, & Thanks for Lighting Yourself Up for my protection.

Bling · Post by **Bling** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:41 pm

LOL! Totally agree, Phil. And one glow necklace does not equal "lit." I could not believe how many people were completely dark--and even wearing dark clothing! Morons.

Pink Daddy · Post by **Pink Daddy** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:51 pm

I found two darktards by the trash fence. Not sure how they made it that far without being speed bumps, but I didn't even acknowledge their existence. No lights, nothing glowing, dark clothes. It's almost as if these people have a death wish...

Parasitoid · Post by **Parasitoid** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:15 pm

lol

you don't care about me...

i'm wrong....

and you don't care about other people getting hit with artcars...

cool dude.

Have fun squinting in the dark and yelling at young people that don't give a shit about being in the way of your dangerously unstable bicycle.

Maybe if pedestrians are knocking you over its time to go for a trike?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:46 pm

An electric bike with lead batteries and playa supplies, including water, would easily be over 100 pounds.
With a 200 pound rider, that's 300 pounds X velocity.
No one hits the brakes if you're invisible.

While it's nothing like a car or golf cart, or the 60,000 pound supply trucks also on the playa, it may not feel that good.
Let us know.

Physics.
They still apply in spite of disbelief.

Here's an example of why I don't ride fast bikes anymore.
Note the helmet.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:42 pm

Lit or dark isn't going to matter if your field of vision is obscured. It doesn't matter how well lit someone is if you can't see them through a solid piece of something in your field of view. When they pop out from behind it, it is still going to be possibly too late to stop.