No Nudity at Burning Man 2005? -- Your thoughts!

Jenn_BigPuffyYellowCamp · Post by **Jenn_BigPuffyYellowCamp** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:29 am

[quote="A II Z"][/quote]Sounds like transsexual fun to me!

I always try to have fun, giggles

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:18 am

no radical self expression

This phrase has (as far as I can tell) already been largely discarded by the LLC and has been replaced with "radical inclusivity" or some such.

jbelson · Post by **jbelson** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:26 am

More importantly: what if dog was really spelled C.A.T.? And cat was spelled D.O.G.?

That hypothetical is almost as stupid.
This thread is like some kids getting stoned in the garage and going "what if..."

XS · Post by XS » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:32 am

Not A RUMOR! It's true! John Ashcroft is now in charge of Burning Man planning for all future events. There will be no nudity, no drugs (except for aspirin), no loud music, no sex whatsoever (unless in a government sanctioned hetero-relationship), no art (unless it's again, sanctioned by the government) and generally no fun of any kind. But don't worry, there will be plenty of Spanking for everyone, but not upon any exposed buttocks. Still counts as nudity. Sounds like... well not fun... but more like ... Washington, D.C. Lick Bush in '04!

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:58 am

Trust me gang, if nudity were to be outlawed at Burning Man they would have already done it for this year. Why would 2005 be different? If there is a problem, then the "problem" is today and since nudity will be at this year's burn, there is absolutely no reason to think otherwise for 2005.

Doc

Donita · Post by **Donita** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:10 pm

Last year was my first year and I gotta tell ya, after the first day
in the hot sun I had to go topless 'cuz it was too freakin' HOT and
miserable to have a top on!!!

Less clothes...more nakedness.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:42 pm

Who is this person "NUdity" and why should'nt they be allowed??

rev. lucifer · Post by **rev. lucifer** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:16 pm

If it ever does come to no nudity, then that will be the first step to the end of BM.

I hope it never does, but I fear that as the amount of people who go gets large and if more people get killed then the government will start to get more involved and thus will start the beginning of the end.

_tears_ · Post by **_tears_** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:20 pm

Donita wrote:Last year was my first year and I gotta tell ya, after the first day
in the hot sun I had to go topless 'cuz it was too freakin' HOT and
miserable to have a top on!!!

Less clothes...more nakedness.

Something about the hot sun just wants to make you take all your clothing off no??

Actually some of the people in my village told me that last year was one of the cooler years ( heat wise ). I didnt find myself too hot, hopefully there will be weather like last years, i rather enjoyed it, although i heard rain on the playa is really fun.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:15 pm

Tears in opening her thread wrote:

MY thoughts on the matter, weather it be true or not, is that they should not take away our right to nudity. To many it is a form of expression that they are comfortable doing only at burning man. I am a nudist, i love nudity and nude resorts, and I love being nude at burning man as well. To take away the right to be nude to is like taking away many peoples freedom to self expression.

Forgive me if this comes on the heels of smarting after my earlier post to you but I do have a question. Not so much directed at you as one to be put generally put to the readers here.

In the above statement you point out that as a nudist you feel [paraphrasing here] uncomfortable with the possibility of having a right to this form of expression being taken away - as do many here I'll add. So, if I'm not mistaken you've indicated that you're legally defined as underage (less than 18) NOTE: if this is incorrect then the post becomes a moot one - to some degree anyway. So I'd ask -given a hypothetical - you've arrived on the playa with your friends, you remain underage and you're ready for another year at BM. Suppose in your excitement and heat of the moment you're walking around topless like so many hundreds of other women, the day's hot, you've been drinking and you, say, get really drunk. An altercation ensues. Some asshole tries to sexually assault you or you get heat stroke, pass out and the EMTs are summoned. In hearing the call, law enforcement shows up and starts taking a report. Passed out from heat exhaustion, the EMTs find your wallet and get your vital info before sending you off to a hospital in Reno. The inforamtion is passed on to the cops who note that you're underage, drunk (or passed out from exhaustion) and you - a minor - have been walking around topless. Surely you're not going to get hammered for such a seemingly small nfraction BUT... what happens when you find out that the lw enforcement holds the event at fault for your transgressions. This is a very real possibility. What would you or someone in a similar situation say to the ramifications to your decision. Is it still your right. Hell, is it MY right even to do something because everyone else is doing it. Do I have a personal responsibility to accept the consequences of my actions. Does the event have a responsibility to protect themselves from even the possibility of this sort of situation happening. Are the cops taking away your rights? The event? I'm not really sure. Like I said, I'm not specifically pointing a finger at you Tears but assuming my memory is correct yourstatus as a monor brings up a very interesting question that I'd like to see folks here chew on from all angles.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:24 pm

NOTE: That smiley was a typo. I've NEVER intentioannly used one of those fucking thingss...

Another reason for an edit button.

Bob A · Post by **Bob A** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:41 pm

Depending on what state your are in nudity for minors would be no different that nudity for adults. There are nude beaches and nude family resorts. Nudity is not defined as sexual in itself, unless it is presented as to focus on a sexual aspect. So a family can go to a nude beach have fun and even take pictures of their weekend, as long as the photos are not seen as sexual.

Now that's the trick what some people see as wholesome family fun others may see as perverted. Some states don't allow any nudity around kids, I know one of the south east coast regionals had to ban kids below a certain age because of laws in that state and the nudity that would be at the event.

Here is another question, that I don't know the answer to. Some people talk about state laws and some people talk about federal laws. Which would apply here? Someone either in this thread or another mentioned that nudity was ok in federal parks, is this true, does that apply here?

Bob A

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:43 pm

ther are a lot of ifs ifs ifs but it is a rather interesting scenario. Can you tell me of any events that have approached this situation? What kind of bad scenarios have minors turned up in, on the radar that is. (please note, this is not an implication that adults also don't end up torqued and blacked out as well).

I would like to know if there is historical case at the event.

all in all, it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:51 pm

Depending on what state your are in nudity for minors would be no different that nudity for adults.

But Bob, in the case of Nevada that unfortuantely doesn't seem to be the case. Nevada takes VERY seriously three potential infractions that can happen at the event. 1) Domestic/sexual/general assault 2) elderly abuse (Apparantly, it happens a LOT in Nevada) and 3) child neglect/endangerment/abuse/ in which the interpretation is one given a LOT of latitude by local and state law enforcement officials.

playawithmyheart · Post by **playawithmyheart** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:53 pm

"Take another little piece of my heart, now baby."

Isotopia, thank you for this insight. If nudity is so important to the event, and the weather, why do we not see more nudity in other desert populations? Could nudity on the playa be an act of rebellion?

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:56 pm

Bob A asked:

Here is another question, that I don't know the answer to. Some people talk about state laws and some people talk about federal laws.

Both it seems.

Stuart asked:

I would like to know if there is historical case at the event.

None that I know of. Seriously, I've had a radio around my neck for the last six burns pretty much 24/7 and nothing like this has ever happened to my knowledge. Still, all it takes is one fuck up or small slip in judgement. You could argue that the fuse has been hanging out for a few years now.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:04 pm

Could nudity on the playa be an act of rebellion?

Absolutely.

Thing is, the friends in my particualr orbit see it as profoundly more important than an act of rebellion. A good number of them see it as an act of liberation - a statement against the tyranny of a body-centric culture that assigns great worth to young, beautiful bodies and diminishes the value of those who don't/can't/won't buy into the bullshit of physical beauty equating with inner beauty or whatever else such superficial assignations are messaged out by such Thought Lameness.

_tears_ · Post by **_tears_** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:25 pm

Please have no fret at pointing fringers, Yes i am infact 17. And pointing fingers does not make me feel "outcast" or put on the spot. It doesnt bother me at all infact

I dont offend easy.

Honestly i am not 100% sure of the laws in NV when it comes to this. So it is hard to answer exactly. Having been raised in a nudist enviornment and nude resorts across the U.S i find this point interesting....

And it also brings up OTHER questions in my head. Nude resorts are "privately owned" so it is fine ( at least here in ca ) if they are nude as along as they abide by the typical laws for any resort and keep the area generally closed from the outside public.

Is Burning Man like that? -- Just a question really. Do the laws in NV count burning man as privately owned.... Hm anyway and I do understand what you are saying and I brought it up to my parents ... pondering on the subject they came to the idea that in this situation it should be up to whom ever is my legal guardian at the event. Which i do indeed have and insist on. But, that is just that they feel. Would it be any different if i was under age rather than an adult? Or a younger child?

Interesting questions indeed. When i come up with something of better body i will be sure to post it

_tears_ · Post by **_tears_** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:32 pm

I went on a little hunt but sadly i am horrible at looking things up online. Does anyone know FOR SURE what the LAWS in NV are you nudity ( or public nudity? ) for adults and minors?

==================

And yes I see nudity as not only an art form, but a chance to break loose and out of everyones shells. I am not a super thin girl. I am a bit curvy, but i love my body. One good thing about nudism is it teachs you to respect your body as well as others and accept people for who they are.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:37 pm

Is Burning Man like that? -- Just a question really. Do the laws in NV count burning man as privately owned....

Hardly. Burning Man is a private event held on very public land. Land owned by the US Government.

_tears_ · Post by **_tears_** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:41 pm

Badger wrote:
Is Burning Man like that? -- Just a question really. Do the laws in NV count burning man as privately owned....
Hardly. Burning Man is a private event held on very public land. Land owned by the US Government.

All this chitter chatter is getting jumbled up in my little dyslexic head..

Ok go jsut to make sure i understand. Burning man IS a private event.. but it is held on PUBLIC land that the US GOVERNMENT owns.

So infact they would NOT see it as something like a nude resort because the PROPERTY is not privately owned?

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:06 pm

The event is a private event held on land that is owned and paid for by the public (via taxes) and held in trust by the government.

Anyway...I read about this on another list I'm on. The original word was handed down by H 'n H as a memo to theme camps that the Burning Man Festival was going "family-friendly" in response to some urging by the Pershing County Sheriff. Is that what you're referring to?

I think the rumour of Burning Man turning into Disneyland was the result of someone in the community, with — shall we say — an unbalanced blood pressure and the ubiquitous aversion to Disney read the "family friendly" part and went splooie. He started screaming "This is the end of Critical Tits — this is the end of Burning Man! Ahhhh! Ahhhh! Ahhhh!"

Hey. It's a community of artists, things like this happen. My first reaction to his missive was, "No more nudity or adult-themed camps? This has gotta be a joke. It's getting closer to the Burn, we're due for a round of rumours, agit-props and pranks circulating..."

We haggled it out on the list. It's currently in its final squeaks and twitches. Pretty much everyone read the memo in question and were level-headed enough to read and absorb the words <b>"Suggest"</b> and "Optional." They're suggesting making a "family-friendly" section of the city, say between four and nine o'clock, similar to the rave ghettoes, and having adult-oriented theme camps assign a greeter to meet people at the entrance and let them know what the camp is about and what they can expect to see in there. And Kamakhya Devi, one of the Kidsville bigwigs, came out and screamed bloody murder that this is not what they intended or even wanted to see.

It's Burning Man. There will always be Klaxons. There will always be "The Disneyfication of Burning Man" jokes. There will always be naked people cruising around, for whatever reason. And like has been said, if you don't want your kids to see naked people don't bring 'em.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:40 pm

So, no monorail? Darn!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:58 am

If Nevada patrol officers get the privledge of enforcing Nevada Law on Nevadan BLM land, the legal picture could change.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:55 pm

If Nevada patrol officers get the privledge of enforcing Nevada Law on Nevadan BLM land, the legal picture could change.

Um, Crypto, I hate to tell you but that that's been happening for years now.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:01 pm

Having a specific legal go ahead could intensify it. Or not. (I'm still really puzzled about that one.)

naken · Post by **naken** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:28 am

Thank YOU Isotopia an Tears for good honest coments ,Iam Young also an have no legal guardian my mom died a few years ago an my dad is 88 an doesnt get out much.I have 3 kids,youngest is 24,my wife an i have been married 25 years,when at burningman we take care of each other,i can be found at ESD fire dept camp,stop by your welcome anytime.Our camp is professional an clothing optional.

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 11:35 am

naken wrote:Iam Young...I have 3 kids,youngest is 24...

Reality check!

Perhaps you are young at mind, but you are NOT young.

A II Z

Sensei · Post by **Sensei** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 3:28 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Perhaps you are young at mind, but you are NOT young.

A II Z

"Young" is a relative term. If he were a Redwood tree, he'd barely be out of the seedling stage.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:04 pm

Anothe reality check:

Perhaps you are young at mind, but you are NOT young.

A II Z

That was such a bullshit staement A II Z - even for you.

No Nudity at Burning Man 2005? -- Your thoughts!

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