Guns, Love Em or Leave Em

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:37 am

Aggressive geocaching!

I'm impressed.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:59 pm

bang bang..Sly Stallone's new movie has fragmentation 12 gauge full auto shotguns!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:47 pm

Catman, did you pick up your gun?
How is it?

I found a smith that can use a laser for branding.
Opens up interesting possibilities, wide lettering, larger, all without damaging the metal.
Even custom fonts are possible.
They can even work on curved surfaces.
This one charges $85 for a serial number and company name.
This smith is a specialist in suppressors and aows, but is now making some very nice bolt actions too.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:30 pm

http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/

Everyone should know about this organization.

Armed Citizensâ€™ Legal Defense Network

* Educating members about the legalities of using deadly force for self defense and how to interact with the criminal justice system after a shooting.

* An initial $5,000 fee deposit paid to the member's attorney by the Network if the member has been involved in a self-defense incident. The fee deposit gets the legal defense immediately underway, with representation during questioning, and arranging for an independent investigation of the incident.

* Network members are also eligible for additional grants of financial assistance from a separate non-profit foundation if they face unmeritorious prosecution or civil action after a self-defense incident occurring during their period of membership.

* The Network publishes a monthly journal online with columns and features focused on topics of interest to armed citizens.

* Creating a nationwide network of attorneys and legal experts which the member can draw upon in the event of a self-defense shooting.

If you possess a gun for defense of yourself and your family, we urge you to seriously consider joining the Network.

Preparation to survive the second attackâ€”the legal aftermath of a justifiable defense shootingâ€”is critical.

Ignore it at your own peril.

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:35 pm

cowboyangel wrote:bang bang..Sly Stallone's new movie has fragmentation 12 gauge full auto shotguns!

yo, ya knucklehead... how'z it hangin'?

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:39 pm

Oh, It's hanging where it should be. Are you doing the burn this year?

AIIZ

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:27 am

From the Rifleman, October 2009 issue, referring to an issue featuring double rifles, a traditional high power hunting rifle:

I especially liked Harry Selby's recollections of his last safari with Robert Ruark, "Kwaheri Safari".
This brought back a flood of warm memories, since Mr. Ruark used to correspond with me when I was a scrawny, handicapped 10-year-old kid with a BB gun (Red Ryder? You bet!).
I used to write him on lined notebook paper and ask him all sorts of "gun" questions and beg for used brass for my puny little cartridge collection.
He'd often send personal replies with a spent .275 Rigby or .375 H&H Magnum case and tell me what he had shot with each one.

Those letters and dreams lasted a lifetime, and I eventually went on to hunt big game from coast to coast and, 40 years later, even went on my own safari to South Africa, all while in a wheelchair.
It all looked just like he described it, and I'd like to think he was proud that I'd finally made it.

Jack Gillrup

bx1 · Post by **bx1** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:07 am

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:16 am

joel the ornery wrote:
cowboyangel wrote:bang bang..Sly Stallone's new movie has fragmentation 12 gauge full auto shotguns!
yo, ya knucklehead... how'z it hangin'?

Hiya Buddy! I use your lovely bowls everyday!

I'm ok...rough economy don't help.

Still remember what you said about Clay Younger...."America's favorite sport?....Shootin"

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:06 pm

I wanted to post this so it can be found.
It does not seem to be possible to find it through normal links.

http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/

This is the master index for Armed Citizen reports, going back to 1958.

These are real events involving self defense situations.

geospyder · Post by **geospyder** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:36 pm

Here is a copy of an email I've received a couple times:

Why Carry a Gun?

My old grandpa said to me 'Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and
usually it's when he becomes too old to take an ass whoopin.'

I don't carry a gun to kill people.
I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

I don't carry a gun to scare people.
I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.

I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid.
I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I'm evil.
I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I hate the government.
I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

I don't carry a gun because I'm angry.
I carry a gun so that I don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.

I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone.
I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy.
I carry a gun because, when I die and go to heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man.
I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.

I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate.
I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

I don't carry a gun because I love it.
I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.

Police protection is an oxymoron.
Free citizens must protect themselves.
Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess.

Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:59 pm

I like that so much I just printed it and hung it in my cubicle... Thank you!

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:12 pm

bx1 wrote:

FAIL (only one Mosin... bonus points for laminated stock weren't enough to overcome the Enfield Penalty)

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:58 pm

I tried printing it to, ended up printing the whole page.

Hey gyre!
I'll be paying off the p3at by the end of October. Still owe $173 and some change.
Any suggestions for ammo?
I've been looking at American Eagle ammo and PMC ammo for target rounds for starters.
I have a small list for defense rounds.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:07 pm

Great!

Get a finger extension and some extended mags too.

I just got czech Sellier & Bellot target ammo from cabela's.
Plan to reload in the future.

I use corbon DPX in the 380.
My friend uses powerball because it's jamproof.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:14 pm

Cool. Taking the car up to Reno tomorow for an oil change and was planning to go to Cabels or Sheels after, for a quick look around.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:55 pm

I usually buy target ammo by price, but the S & B appears to be great quality.
I wouldn't hesitate to carry it.

I paid $16 per box of 50.

I was ordering the pepperblaster at the same time, so shipping was nil anyway.

RRarms has great prices on target ammo.

The brass quality on the Sellier is fantastic if you're reloading.

geospyder · Post by **geospyder** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:42 pm

Thecatman wrote:Cool. Taking the car up to Reno tomorow for an oil change and was planning to go to Cabels or Sheels after, for a quick look around.

Before you buy, check out Wal-Mart for pricing.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:32 pm

More like supply first.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:50 pm

I stopped supporting Cabelas after they endorsed aerial wolf hunting. That is not hunting. It's inhumane slaughter. Try Cheaper Than Dirt outa Texas.

Mosin · Post by **Mosin** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:03 am

cowboyangel wrote:I stopped supporting Cabelas after they endorsed aerial wolf hunting. That is not hunting. It's inhumane slaughter. Try Cheaper Than Dirt outa Texas.

CTD is great... for surplus/camping supplies as well as ammo. Before buying something at Sportsmansguide, it's always good to check the CTD price (and vice-versa). Good ammo deals can be found at Aimsurplus, and Classicarms.us, although the latter generally specializes in milsurp longarm/centerfire rather than handgun calibers.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:57 am

gyre wrote:Dog bites and children

* 50% of dog attacks involved children under 12 years old
* 82% of dog bites treated in the emergency room involved children under 15 years old
* 70% of dog-bite fatalities occurred among children under 10 years old
* Bite rates are dramatically higher among children who are 5 to 9 years old
* Unsupervised newborns were 370 times more likely than an adult to be killed by a dog
* 65% of bites among children occur to the head and neck
* Boys under the age of 15 years old are bitten more often than girls of the same age

I can appreciate these stats. When I was in kindergarten I was attacked by my neighbors german shepard and bit on the left side of my face resulting in a number of puncture wounds. One missed my left eye by millimeters, leaving the most visible scar. With no ems in my town then, I vividly remember my Dad driving me to the hospital, cursing at lights. Once there I was immed. taken to surgery and then spent a few days in the hosp. recovering.

It took me many years to outgrow most, but not all of my fear of dogs. While I am not as scared of shepards anymore, I think pitt breeds have no worth in society and as 4 legged weapons should be regulated, and banned accordingly, as such.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:40 pm

gepspyder wrote:Before you buy, check out Wal-Mart for pricing.

I hit the sack after my post at 9:14pm last night. I never even thought of checking Walmart.
I got a box of American Eagle, 50 rounds for $16 at Cabelas. Same as what gyre paid for the S&B. I will give the S&B a try as well. I want to have at least 100 rounds of target ammon, if not more, when I get the gun next month.
I'm taking the first week of November off (use it or lose it time) and we're going down to Alamo for a couple days and I want to take it with us.
So the first time I shoot it, it will be somewhere between Dayton and Alamo.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:36 pm

General advice is to lubricate heavily before firing and use until all jams and failures to feed cease.
Keltec recommends 200 rounds before use for defense.

Then clean and polish internals, or have someone do it.
It isn't necessary to breakdown the trigger mechanism to do this.
It involves moderate difficulty.

There may be flash on the slide area of the frame and this needs to be removed or sanded.

Pay attention to your hand position relative to the rear of the slide.

I don't even carry with the short magazine since I have the longer ones.
But the finger extension for the short mag is highly recommended, and cheaper now too.

I suggest you fire at least one of your defense rounds in practice, to be familiar with it.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:33 pm

gyre wrote:Keltec recommends 200 rounds before use for defense.
I suggest you fire at least one of your defense rounds in practice, to be familiar with it.

I heard about the 200 rounds for break in.
I was gonna take a magazines worth of some defense rounds to get somewhat of an idea if there will be any FTF and FTE.
I'm gonna get one more box of AE and two boxes of S&B. the rounds look pretty much the same. I guess becuse they're FMJs.
For defense rounds, my list includes:
Winchester Silver tip JHP
Federal Hydra Shok JHP
Magtech 1st defense HP 77gr
Hornady Critical Defense
CorBon Self Defense DPX
Glaser Powr Ball
Speer Gold Dot
I've also heard "do not use +p ammo in the p3at".
For oiling, do you use Hoppes #9?
I still need to get a cleaning kit for it.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:27 pm

Heres a wet newspaper ballistics for the CorBon DPX found on KTOG.

Wet Newspaper Test: Corbon DPX .380 HP
05/11/06 at 19:11:22 Finally ran a wet newspaper test on the highly-touted Corbon DPX .380 HP round. As usual, I soaked 12" of bundled newsprint in water for eight hours, bound in loose twine to allow for expansion, and fired four rounds from a distance of approximately 2 yards (a suitable range, IMHO, for a BUG). This is the same procedure I used previously for the Speer Gold Dot, Corbon standard JHP, and Santa Barbar FMJ. Here are the results:

Round 1--6.00" penetration; .618" expansion (measured from widest point.

Round 2--6.25" pen.; .622" exp.

Round 3--6.50" pen.; .631" exp.

Round 4--6.50" pen.; .624" exp.

All the 6-petaled copper rounds mushroomed uniformly and completely, with the exception of one petal on Round 3, which did not peel back. In this way, they were similar to the Speer Gold Dot, which showed similar uniformity.

If you use the conversion formula of 3/2, you can estimate the expected penetration in ballistic gelatin to be between 9.0 and 9.7 inches, which is consistent with the results of other testers (figures in gelatin have run between 8 and 10 inches). These numbers are better than the Gold Dot, though not by huge amounts. The penetration in denim-covered gelatin is typically greater, although I doubt the DPX would reach the magic 12" of the FBI protocol.

The other observation of note about the DPX round, which I did not notice in the Gold Dot or Standard Corbon JHP, was a significant "crush cavity" in the newsprint. After about 2" of penetration in the newsprint, there was a bullet hole of 1" diameter that continued to about 5.5 " of penetration. Around this hole was a "halo" of compressed newsprint that was about 2.25" in diameter. The enlarged hole and "halo" would represent extensive damage caused by the bullet's disruptive energy. In ballistic gelatin or human flesh, I expect this would be clearly and dramatically seen. I saw nothing like this with the Speer Gold Dot, Santa Barbara, or Corbon JHP; in these cases, there was minimal disruption.

In conclusion, I am impressed with the Corbon DPX round. It is an excellent combination of expansion and penetration. Obviously, it can not match the double-digit penetration of the Santa Barbara FMJ, but it will certainly do a lot more internal damage. Does its performance justify paying double the price compared to a competitive HP like the Gold Dot? I guess that's your call.

I would sure like to see some more "formal" gelatin testing with this round, and ultimately, some street results. In the meantime, I believe it's about the best HP round currently available in the .380 arena.

Stay tuned for a test of the Winchester Ranger-T .380 HP round. Gotta see how this LEO-only round performs, and whether us civilians are getting short shrift.
I don't know how reliable wet newspaper tests are.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:35 pm

Limited use of plus P is allowed and I don't think it's a safety issue, but one of wear.

I use a remington oil.
Nothing special.

gunsmith · Post by **gunsmith** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:52 am

I had the ruger LCP for awhile, I don't like the recoil- for concealed carry I like heavier revolvers ... like the ruger sp101 - the recoil is manageable with heavier guns ( imho)

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:23 am

I'm guessing you'd hate the 14 ounce 9mm I carry then.

The 380 seems reasonable by comparison.

Seems like a fair trade for the size and weight.
I love mine.

I expect the 380 will be much easier with the long magazine too.
Added weight is negligible.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:36 am

After watching Americas Most Wanted last night, my wife has finnaly concluded she should get a CCW permit as well. She had one when we lived in Pennsylvania and had a S&W .38 special. Her dad got it for her and put her through the class. I don't know what model.
I'm cosidering giving her the p3at and getting a pf9 for myself.

Guns, Love Em or Leave Em

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