what's your current opinion on RVs?

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:05 pm

I want to see a wall of Canoes. THAT would be cool - the Lake Lahontan Rowing Club. What a cush way to get across the playa!!!

(Don't laugh, I'm visualizing a Canoe MV now...)

some seeing eye · Post by **some seeing eye** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:38 pm

If I were the org, I would track the ratio of RV's to tickets sold, by gate count or counting the satellite photo. The more RV's per ticket sold, the greater the opportunity to raise ticket prices.

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:40 pm

some seeing eye wrote:The more RV's per ticket sold, the greater the opportunity to raise ticket prices.

?? How do you figure?

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:52 pm

I really don't see it as a "haves vs. have-nots" thing, or that people who rent a crappy RV for the week are somehow rolling in dough.

Boijoy · Post by **Boijoy** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:56 pm

Did anyone see the RV that had been completely shrink wrapped in plastic & they cut out the doors & windows then spray painted art ALL over the rest of it? VERY Burny.. VERY Burny indeed !

Da Mule · Post by **Da Mule** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:58 pm

I saw one kinda like that down on D around 8:15. It was wrapped in saran wrap and said something like "RVs are ugly and shouldn't reproduce so we gave it a condom."

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:14 pm

Furrebago, c.1998

justfred · Post by **justfred** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:17 pm

neon tetra wrote:I really don't see it as a "haves vs. have-nots" thing, or that people who rent a crappy RV for the week are somehow rolling in dough.

A beaten-up RV that can make it to the burn and back costs at least $2500 - plus gas - plus you've got to either sell it when you're done, or keep it somewhere. Rental RV? Starting at about $2000 plus gas plus good-bye to the rental deposit. A working tent and all the camping gear you need from a yard sale? Maybe $200. Sure, you can share the RV among a couple of people - but you can also share a tent with two.

The nicest tent you can get? Less than a thousand, and it'll last several years. Those spiffy RV's making up the massive walls? Starting at $50,000 or so.

Sure, an RV is nicer - but it's a lot more money. Many burners - even the ones who aren't begging for tickets here - are living paycheck-to-paycheck - if they're lucky enough to get paychecks at all. It's pretty clear to me that RV's are nice - if you can afford them.

Post by **Eric** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:39 pm

justfred wrote:It's pretty clear to me that RV's are nice - if you can afford them.

So you've never in your life saved up money for something you want?

Before I was part of the Great American Unemployed I was working retail & living in one of the most expensive cities in the US (still live here). How do I afford my share of the RV rental? I saved. I put money aside for it over the course of the year because it's something I want to enjoy at the event. Not even close to being rich- I just choose how I want to allocate my funds for the event. It's known as being an adult.

Your "have vs. have-not" argument is specious at best, utterly made up at worst. If you need to make up "facts" like that so you feel better about having the sun kick you out of your tent at 9am while I'm dozing peacefully in my AC, have at it. Doesn't make it truth anymore than a double rainbow means we're heading into an era of world peace.

knowmad · Post by **knowmad** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:20 pm

justfred wrote:
neon tetra wrote:I really don't see it as a "haves vs. have-nots" thing, or that people who rent a crappy RV for the week are somehow rolling in dough.
A beaten-up RV that can make it to the burn and back costs at least $2500 - plus gas - plus you've got to either sell it when you're done, or keep it somewhere. Rental RV? Starting at about $2000 plus gas plus good-bye to the rental deposit. A working tent and all the camping gear you need from a yard sale? Maybe $200. Sure, you can share the RV among a couple of people - but you can also share a tent with two.

The nicest tent you can get? Less than a thousand, and it'll last several years. Those spiffy RV's making up the massive walls? Starting at $50,000 or so.

Sure, an RV is nicer - but it's a lot more money. Many burners - even the ones who aren't begging for tickets here - are living paycheck-to-paycheck - if they're lucky enough to get paychecks at all. It's pretty clear to me that RV's are nice - if you can afford them.

Those spiffy RV's making up the massive walls?
well they come in pretty handy to block the wind, let's see your $65 dollar tent do that. and 9 times out of ten the guy/or gal serving you booze, hotcakes, or pickles proly was sleeping in a RV, or rental truck. not saying to be cool ya gota have one, me sayin if you're cool chances are you've got one at yer camp

but I can agree, it's pretty lame to see lack of imagination when it comes to decor. little art is nice.[/b]

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:39 pm

justfred wrote: plus good-bye to the rental deposit.

Not necessarily. I've rented them from 2 different locations & never had an issue with getting the deposit back. Just do a reasonable job of cleaning it & you should be ok.

Post by **mdmf007** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:15 pm

justfred wrote:The best thing about motorhomes, is it provides needed separation of the Haves (who can afford a them) from us Have-Nots (who can't). Like gated communities in the rest of the world, it allows them to live in their own perfect protected world, while the rest of us have to do what we can to survive.

I'm probably going to be forced to get a trailer of some sort, in order to get my wife to come back. She's tired of tenting, I still prefer it. Still not sure how to pay for the vehicle, the gas, and find a place to store it. Shrug.

Where there's a will, there's a way. I know lots of people, living below the poverty line that can pool together resources and find an RV to rent to go to BM.

DOnt forget that many of these RV's are there for more than a month... where do you think that many of the thousands of people that build the art and big camps stay? I stay on playa for more than 6 weeks a year and if I ddint have an RV, I would not be able to do it.

punapeter · Post by **punapeter** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:26 pm

seemed pretty clear to me, says come be Radically Self-reliant. Well if you are reliant enough to protect yourself in a built vehicle that's what made the most sense.
Reading all the pros and cons and the camp thing people are supposed to do, some of them evaporating ponds were not working well. But yes if you are over 50, you may have done your years of sleeping on the ground, 'roughing it'.
hell leaving my tempurpedic was serious commitment.
An RV gives you a/c, which you could also stick in a tent with a small generator. Saw one stuck in a van driver's window. I knew by reading that I did not want playa in my food, virgin playa maybe, diesel playa no. Been to enough concerts to know port-potties I'm not sittin in period. And I gotta say in the afternoon heat and whiteouts nothing beats a/c and satin sheets.
Mine were purple.
Only next time I'd go smaller with only one person or alone. Unless you have spent time with your RV-mates don't be adventurous, trying to deal with someone's mess and inconsiderateness isn't fun. But having a wind free clean private space is worth a lot when your not 20 and can/want to sleep passed out on the deep playa all night.

Have/have not lame. Have not so many cartons of cigarettes at $9. a carton,lol and as mentioned above, SAVE! that's what they used to call Radical Self-Reliance.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:31 pm

Finally a Punapeter post I really like and actually agree with!

punapeter · Post by **punapeter** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:51 pm

sorry, they'll probably be more

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:58 pm

punapeter wrote:sorry, they'll probably be more

No apologies required. Truth be told it's good to see new voices in here. Not that I don't like the old school crowd but change is good.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:20 pm

No it's not, go away.

robrob · Post by **robrob** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:29 pm

i'm not trying to argue for one over the other- as everyone else has said, how you burn is your business.

for me, personally, a couple things are keeping me from even considering an RV at this point in time (other than the logistics of not knowing how to drive, lol).

a) My Personal Needs. Let's be honest, i'm not leading the rotary club art tours in the morning. I basically spend seven days shoving god knows what down my facehole, going until I physically shut down, and then getting back up when it gets too hot. <strike>Rinse</strike> Repeat. I don't need a fancy bed- not only would it be wasted, it'd probably get covered in something uncool. Best stick with mats that can be rinsed down and aired off

b) Resource Allocation. I'd wager that most of us have some number in mind we'd like to spend, and it probably falls in between the dumb ass hippy with the "i need a miracle" sign on the outskirts of gerlach, and Mr Dot Com Hiring Kanye West to MC in his half dozen mega domes. To me, I see $4500 buying a fuck ton of bourbon and skirt steak for tostadas, and not a personal toilet. Again, totally my own opinion, and it might be helped by the fact i was at 4:45 and H and our potties were pretty dreamy most of the time. But given the relatively fixed size of my "warchest", I'd like to put as much into community-related stuff as possible.

c) My Burn Goals. Despite my sounding like a massive degenerate living off of cheap beer and massive amounts of phenethylamines for the week, the burn has been incredibly important in my personal development. Socially- not just meeting people and having a jolly time, but also organizing strangers, mediating conflict, building consensus; there are practical areas I want to better myself in as well- creating art,and in the immediate future, creating infrastructure.

the last thing is pretty important, and the main reason why i don't want an RV for myself in the immediate future. I didn't have a lot of hobbies before my first burn. I didn't have much of a life at all, outside of the routine of work. But building shit in the desert? Lots to kill time with

Fabricating a thing out of raw parts, the logistics of getting something from point a to point BRC, Rigging and Assembly- SO MUCH FUN STUFF! And sure, I know people do all that in an RV, but I've got this dumb vision in my head of a kitchen dome, and a personal yurt, and maybe even a big ass (but stable) flagpole so that some of you dudes can come find me next year.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:08 pm

the only way to do it wrong at burning man is to tell someone they're doing it wrong...

you stupid fucking hippy.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:30 am

justfred wrote: The nicest tent you can get? Less than a thousand, and it'll last several years. Those spiffy RV's making up the massive walls? Starting at $50,000 or so.

Less than a thousand?

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:55 am

while the rest of us have to do what we can to survive.

Survive? Survive????? As in 'radical...survival?'

Get over here and clean my screen off right now.

It's a goddamn camping trip you silly ass monkey.

It ain't like you're packing for a solo ascent up the fucking west wall of K-2 or a canoe trip trip down the Congo.

Cheesus, I can't believe people are still chomping on that same old dessicated turd of a buzz phrase.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:24 am

and Mr Dot Com Hiring Kanye West to MC in his half dozen mega domes.

oh, by the way...

Kanye says "Fuck You!, Stupid Hippy"

teardropper · Post by **teardropper** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:38 am

Bob wrote:

Furrebago, c.1998

I WANT THIS!!!

But I want rabbit fur...

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:59 am

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:20 am

justfred wrote:The best thing about motorhomes, is it provides needed separation of the Haves (who can afford a them) from us Have-Nots (who can't). Like gated communities in the rest of the world, it allows them to live in their own perfect protected world, while the rest of us have to do what we can to survive.

I'm probably going to be forced to get a trailer of some sort, in order to get my wife to come back. She's tired of tenting, I still prefer it. Still not sure how to pay for the vehicle, the gas, and find a place to store it. Shrug.

This is something that comes up a lot: When people, usually ones starting an RV-complaint thread, say "RV" it's as if that means 30+ foot, new, rented Class-A motorhome.
You don't have to be rich, I'm not. RVs lose their value like a Journey album on cassette tape. Get an older one! Trailers are dirt cheap, and come in all sizes, chances are you can pull one with whatever you drive unless all you've got is a Prius; and if you can afford that pile of shit, you could make this work.
I usually use a large truck camper.
Older RVs, whether motorhome, trailer, or truck camper, are ALL available in serviceable shape for less $$ than one week's rental from El Monte

teardropper · Post by **teardropper** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:22 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:Older RVs, whether motorhome, trailer, or truck camper, are ALL available in serviceable shape for less $$ than one week's rental from El Monte

Cap'n's right. I've got $2500 in mine, plus a little regular maintenance. Start to amortize that over a few years, and the price per year starts to come way down. I don't drive too far, but would drive it much farther. Might take a while at the speeds I go. Just take it easy on the old units.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:59 am

This year is the first year I camp inside the van.. Mostly outside.. Works pretty good.. So will build a boot for the back for a kitchen and bath.. Set up and strike camps should be in the few minite range

Would like a trailer RV but there is the MV to pull.. Inside is better..

Saw an old bus with a bow for eye brows..

Oh and I camp near waterless. Trash go's in the Lug A Lue along with drained food water.. A pan with a towel evaps small amounts of bath water. Alone with kitty litter jug for hual out..

Nice having my own pot.. Carry a five gal. exit can for the Lug A Lue on the trailer.. The law in my county allows me to trash the potty bags.. They have a burner..

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:38 am

Holy crap, $4500 on Bourbon. To each his own.

Post by **Savannah** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:56 am

Some of my favorite people travel to the burn in RVs. Some of 'em pick up some of my other favorite people from the airport in said RVs (who knows if they would make it otherwise). And it allows yet another pair I'm thinking of to attend even though one of 'em occasionally has difficulty w/ asthma. Gives her a place to chill when the air's not right for her. And the best virgin I met this year, a 60 year old RN who volunteered 36 hours with Medical her very first time out--yeah, she and her husband arrived in an RV and between the two of them contributed more volunteer hours towards the health & safety of the city than I have in 6 burns combined. I've gotta catch up.

So, while RVs are not for me, and I rather get off on my ability to survive happily without one (esp when favorite bus driver told me last night that he would've thought I was too "prissy" for a place like Burning Man) . . . I know a lot of great people who do camp in RVs. And they make kickass wind-blocks.

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:59 am

Isotopia wrote:
while the rest of us have to do what we can to survive.
Survive? Survive????? As in 'radical...survival?'

Get over here and clean my screen off right now.

It's a goddamn camping trip you silly ass monkey.

It ain't like you're packing for a solo ascent up the fucking west wall of K-2 or a canoe trip trip down the Congo.

Cheesus, I can't believe people are still chomping on that same old dessicated turd of a buzz phrase.

Couldn't agree more.

And actually, it's not even a camping trip. Those, especially long backcountry ones, are more along the lines of radical survival.
It's a festival. And it's laughable when people pretend they're surviving a week in the deep Amazon or something. But to each their own I guess,

what's your current opinion on RVs?

my personal take

Bob Loblaw...

pay the extra grand for the hippy catcher on the front...