Tech Question...

[Sham]

Other than a few malaysian ferries going astray, I can find no evidence of any event occurring at all.

Malaysian ferries go astray every day. I think the only real effect of the Y2K scare, was millions of dollars spent on unneeded software upgrades. By the way, none of those Malaysian ferries have ever been found.

[Trishntek]

So looking around the net at wind power today, I found it lacking in the durability department when compared to solar. Is that anyone else's assessment? Or am I missing something? Mind you, I'm only seeking something around 1kW or less.

Back in the 70's near Medicine Bow, WY a prototype wind generator was built in one of the most consistently windy places on earth. Each blade of the dual-blade system was 100' long. I believe the tower was 200' tall. They could not keep bearings in that thing for more than a month. I don't quite remember its capacity specifically, but it seems it was in the single digit megawatt neighborhood.

[ygmir]

I think, the issue with wind power is how variable windspeeds can be, not to mention directional........
I know there have been many advances, though.
I like solar, or gravity systems.
It seems, I read about using water to pump water up, then, using the steady flow of said water to generate power. I'm sure there is a fair amount of inefficiency in a system like that. but.......+

[Box Burner]

So looking around the net at wind power today, I found it lacking in the durability department when compared to solar. Is that anyone else's assessment? Or am I missing something? Mind you, I'm only seeking something around 1kW or less.

Back in the 70's near Medicine Bow, WY a prototype wind generator was built in one of the most consistently windy places on earth. Each blade of the dual-blade system was 100' long. I believe the tower was 200' tall. They could not keep bearings in that thing for more than a month. I don't quite remember its capacity specifically, but it seems it was in the single digit megawatt neighborhood.

The problem is one of scale. It was just too fucking big. If you keep it small, just big enough to provide power for 10 to 20 houses it becomes manageable. Properly designed it could even be maintaine and repaired by a neighborhood commity. thereby cutting out big ppower, who really just wants to enslave you.

[ygmir]

would that not be the coolest?
neighboorhood electric systems.
The only drawback, I could see, would be convincing people not to overload/draw the system.
I can see, well, me for instance, wanting to run my lathe and welder, maybe plasma torch or compressor.......high load items........and, if everyone else has big stuff going..........

but, a great concept, IMHO.

BB, you, are a genius.

[Box Burner]

That is why you also suppliment with water power, solar power etc.

[ygmir]

yeah,........all good if available and affordable......
seems, the group would have to agree on limits/timing of some sort......otherwise, you'd have to size the generation capacity to handle max possible load, even if only intermittently, to avoid damage to all on the system.

[mdmf007]

There was a plan to develop small reactors like the kind on subs for urban power generation. Would have been buried deep for security and would run 20-25 years before needing refueling. Puts out in the 12-15MW range.

Problem with nuclear is that if we switch to nuclear on a large scale we can run out of uranium in as little as a decade some reports indicate.

Wind kicks ass - but rarely do high winds and people inhabit the same geography. Vestas towers can put out 5MW or more, and are rock solid as far as maintenance issues and design.

oil is finite, the time to switch is now.

[Ugly Dougly]

Compared to shoveling coal? A bargain!

Not every site is suitable for solar.

So looking around the net at wind power today, I found it lacking in the durability department when compared to solar. Is that anyone else's assessment? Or am I missing something? Mind you, I'm only seeking something around 1kW or less.

Back in the 70's near Medicine Bow, WY a prototype wind generator was built in one of the most consistently windy places on earth. Each blade of the dual-blade system was 100' long. I believe the tower was 200' tall. They could not keep bearings in that thing for more than a month. I don't quite remember its capacity specifically, but it seems it was in the single digit megawatt neighborhood.

[Trishntek]

Well considering in the 70's there were THREE uranium mines and FIVE coal mines within 100 miles of this wind generator in Wyoming,,,,,

The uranium mines were shut down due to a glut of yellowcake in storage after the proliferation of nuclear power was thwarted. There is plenty of uranium,,,, it just hasn't been mined for 30 years.

[Sham]

I think this thread was heading toward how to prepare and survive the collapse of the infrastructure grid that has become the backbone of the world. We have become dependant on the internet for triggering and controlling nearly everything we do. And the power grid bring this web to life. As time goes on, we continue to tax this world wide web for nearly every whim we can imagine. Thousands of new wireless smart phones are added to the network every day, and we all continue to stretch this network to the wall.
If the web were to tumble due to over taxation, and the power grid fails, how long could our society survive? How long could we[i/] survive?
These questions would not have been a real issue 50 years ago, but today, we simply could not function without the aid of the internet.
What the rebbi is aiming towards in this thread, is a survival mentality and how can we prepare should this infrastructure crumble.

Any thoughts on housing, food, heating, and power generation?

[can't sit still]

ANY thread can stand thread drift. I'm working on the power generation part. I'm almost finished building a device designed by Mr. Raoul Hatem, of France. He has good science to back his designs.
This is the Peswiki page;
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:_Hatem_ ... ing_Device
For all you doubters, here's a development page. 1 look at the graphs show great possibilities;
http://www.terawatt.com/ecm1/index.php? ... Itemid=174
The info is from 2 independent labs.

[ygmir]

I think this thread was heading toward how to prepare and survive the collapse of the infrastructure grid that has become the backbone of the world. We have become dependant on the internet for triggering and controlling nearly everything we do. And the power grid bring this web to life. As time goes on, we continue to tax this world wide web for nearly every whim we can imagine. Thousands of new wireless smart phones are added to the network every day, and we all continue to stretch this network to the wall.
If the web were to tumble due to over taxation, and the power grid fails, how long could our society survive? How long could we[i/] survive?
These questions would not have been a real issue 50 years ago, but today, we simply could not function without the aid of the internet.
What the rebbi is aiming towards in this thread, is a survival mentality and how can we prepare should this infrastructure crumble.

Any thoughts on housing, food, heating, and power generation?

lots of good info on the "survival" thread........
or, we can start again here.....it's all fun, and informative.

[Trishntek]

I've already posted on the Solar power - weather protection thread what we are doing. Today, I received solar panels and have a 720W controller on the way. I plan to eventually have FOUR 120Ah batteries in a 24V configuration with a 3000W pure sine wave inverter.

Our intention is to start by running our entertainment center and aquarium off this system and keep it transportable for use on the playa. We shall see about expansion from there, but it would definitely be sufficient to keep us going off-grid if necessary. And with satellite TV, it would be independent of local conditions.

[Rabbi Dali Rick]

Great stuff T, however, you have a big bloated system to start with. A 3000 watt inverter is so inefficient, it's like using a bonfire to light a cigarette. Change the tank to a 12v pump, change your tv to a low power LCD (somewhere around 30 watts if possible, same with your stereo. Making 110v from 12v is in itself very inefficient so try changing things over to 12v where possible. Switch all the light bulbs in the house to LED bulbs. You should be able to run most stuff off a 400 watt inverter. If you did just these simple things you would save almost 75% off your current monthly bill.


the rebbi

[gyre]

A large inverter isn't always inefficient.

I found a 7000 watt one with 90% efficiency.
Another thing to look for is efficiency curves.
The best are efficient at very light loads too.

And over 75 lumens or so, fluorescent is far more efficient, except in extreme cold.

[can't sit still]

Plasma kicks ass on flour and LED;
http://news.cnet.com/Luxims-tiny-but-po ... 34653.html

[Trishntek]

Great stuff T, however, you have a big bloated system to start with. A 3000 watt inverter is so inefficient, it's like using a bonfire to light a cigarette. Change the tank to a 12v pump, change your tv to a low power LCD (somewhere around 30 watts if possible, same with your stereo. Making 110v from 12v is in itself very inefficient so try changing things over to 12v where possible. Switch all the light bulbs in the house to LED bulbs. You should be able to run most stuff off a 400 watt inverter. If you did just these simple things you would save almost 75% off your current monthly bill.


the rebbi

Yeah, but I wanna eat my cake and have it too! By converting things as you suggest, that would commit me to one system. My aquarium still has to run while I have the solar at BM. My 52" Bravia and 600W surround sound are not being replaced to save energy from a solar panel which is used so I can fucking waste it if I fucking want to!

edit: I don't want to sound indifferent to what you are saying, so please don't take it that way. I appreciate conservation, and if push comes to shove, those kinds of things can be done if necessary. On the other hand, with energy acquired by my own machinations, I'm perfectly comfortable using it as inefficiently as I damn well please.

[Trishntek]

Plasma kicks ass on flour and LED;
http://news.cnet.com/Luxims-tiny-but-po ... 34653.html

The one question begging an answer would be, "What is the life expectancy of this plasma lightbulb?" That is why plasma TV's went by the wayside. Even though they offered better images their 10k hour life span made them impractical.

[Trishntek]

Great stuff T, however, you have a big bloated system to start with. A 3000 watt inverter is so inefficient, it's like using a bonfire to light a cigarette. Change the tank to a 12v pump, change your tv to a low power LCD (somewhere around 30 watts if possible, same with your stereo. Making 110v from 12v is in itself very inefficient so try changing things over to 12v where possible. Switch all the light bulbs in the house to LED bulbs. You should be able to run most stuff off a 400 watt inverter. If you did just these simple things you would save almost 75% off your current monthly bill.


the rebbi

The inverter I'm looking at claims to be 85% efficiency at full load and 92% efficient at 1/3 load. Please note this is a 24 Volt system. This is the only 24V pure sine wave inverter I've found with a 2 year Parts AND Labor warranty.

http://www.invertersrus.com/gp-sw3000-24.html

[can't sit still]

I bought my 24 V invertors from Hydrogen appliances for a lot less money. They are full sine-wave also.
http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/

[Trishntek]

Okay, I've done more investigating, and realize my ambitions outway my will. Unless I'm willing to add many more panels, or a dozen batteries, or live a less comfortable lifestyle, the inverter I was seeking is way more than my system can possibly provide. I originally thought going big for future expansion was my motivation. But I've come to the conclusion that modest and mobile with the ability to tie into the grid at home system is all that I seek.

So the conclusion was drawn from the facts that I've learned today:
1. Battery life span is directly proportional to the percentage of draw regularly placed upon it. If it is drawn down below 50% on a daily basis, it will last less than five years. If it s drawn down 20% or less on a daily basis, it could last as long as 10 years. So cost is still proportional to how hard you make the system work. The more batteries (36????) the less each one has to work. But they all should be replaced simultaneously,,,, shit. $$$$

2. The number of panels necessary to charge batteries from the night before AND provide daytime power would be at least six more,,,,, shit. $$$$

3. The controller is involved in the circuit on the load side. I thought they only controlled the circuit between the panels and the batteries. Thus, the 30Amp controller I have is much too small for my original plan. A 400AMP contoller is pricey. $$$$

You all probably know all this stuff, but I'm just getting on board and an education in the process.

[unjonharley]

I lived in a fifth wheel RV for about a year.. It charged off the grid. Most of the lights were DC.. The thing must have had one hell of an inverter. Never looked at it.. The charger must have been kick ass too.

You might want to snoop around in RV stuff for needed parts..

[Captain Goddammit]

If you do this, change out all the 120VAC style outlets for something polarized. It's too easy to plug a two-prong home-style AC plug in either way. It'll also be too easy to plug some non-12VDC appliance into your system. Cigarette-lighter type outlets are the most standardized 12VDC outlets, I'd go with those for that reason. They're available at RV supply places in nice flush wall-mount styles that will fit directly in place of the household outlets you have now.

[gyre]

I like the square prong connectors for this,but there are other options.
They range from two to multi-prong sizes.

For high power, you need bigger connectors than with the high voltage plugs.

[unjonharley]

Wounder if the sceptic tank could run a frig?

[ygmir]

I gotta figure how to trick my "grid tie" system into generating power when there is "no grid".
Now, it senses "grid" power, and generates, to backfeed and sell power back to the company.
But, if the grid goes down, it automatically shuts off (good safety reasons there). But, if the grid is down for any time, I'd like to generate to run my house.
I'm wondering, since I have another small system, battery type, with inverter, if hooking it up and backfeeding the system would allow mine to "recognize" grid power and "come on line"?
Or, is there a specific frequency or something, it looks for in the "grid" that tells it?
The supplier is no help here.........he wants to sell me a 5K dollar inverter, to "fool" the one I have.........
I'm thinking, there are alternatives.

[unjonharley]

I gotta figure how to trick my "grid tie" system into generating power when there is "no grid".
Now, it senses "grid" power, and generates, to backfeed and sell power back to the company.
But, if the grid goes down, it automatically shuts off (good safety reasons there). But, if the grid is down for any time, I'd like to generate to run my house.
I'm wondering, since I have another small system, battery type, with inverter, if hooking it up and backfeeding the system would allow mine to "recognize" grid power and "come on line"?
Or, is there a specific frequency or something, it looks for in the "grid" that tells it?
The supplier is no help here.........he wants to sell me a 5K dollar inverter, to "fool" the one I have.........
I'm thinking, there are alternatives.

There are all sizes of those sencors.. From flash lights to operating rooms.
Must be out there some where.. Navy ships are hard wired that way for passage lite..

[Trishntek]

ygmir, I happened upon this website the other day which offers some controllers and inverters which are built with micro-circuitry and seem very affordable for a unit that might fit your needs. They claim extensive durability too.

http://www.affordable-solar.com/solar.c ... roller.htm

If I understand it properly, the grid-tie inverter has to sense the frequency and power from the grid in order to match the frequency of the AC current and produce slightly more power than the grid to cause flow from your system to the grid. I would think some kind of bypass to an off-grid inverter would be more efficient than "fooling" the on-grid inverter.

[gyre]

Would a manual override be acceptable?