Welcome President Obama

[ygmir]

yeah, I see it........the right wing is all bad......the left wing is there just to "serve the people".......

The left is not "nearly" so bad..........

well, from a leftist point of view, I can see how you'd say that.

Being an anarchist/liberatarian type.......I see them both in the same light.
They lie and cheat, at different things.......but, both lie and cheat.
and, it's so subjective, IMHO, what lies are "worse" than others..........

but, that's just me, I think, for the most part, they're all turds.
If they were good at anything, they'd have a private job..............

[neon tetra]

Obama, whether you love him or hate him, did make a lot of changes. Better credit laws, *some* health care reform, better student loan administration, ended the ban on stem cell research, helped fund alternative energy, *some* Wall Street reform (more to come, now that he appointed Elizabeth Warren to head up the Consumer Finance Protection Agency), etc.

He would have done a lot more if it weren't for the GOP using an unprecedented amount of filibusters, of course.

[ygmir]

yeah, lucky we have the messiah in office.........

[neon tetra]

yeah, lucky we have the messiah in office.........

Not sure how you'd extrapolate that sentiment from what I wrote, but hey... whatever floats your boat.

[ygmir]

I guess it'd be the combination of touting (IYO) his accomplishments, saying nothing derogatory, and, making excuses, blaming the r's for holding up his agenda..........

Understand, I have nothing against you, being a fan of obama......I may disagree, but, heck, that's ok.

I see him as just another face, on the political dice, that when rolled, so often comes up "craps"............

[neon tetra]

I was actually responding to the last post on the previous page; I hadn't noticed that you posted after that.


As for stuff I don't like about him... he supported the "Patriot" Act, he didn't go after Gonzales or Bush for their crimes, he tries too hard to please everyone (even though it's clearly not working), and, mostly because presidents don't have as much power as some may think, he couldn't end these wars quicker.

A great article that illustrates that last point - http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/09/30-10

Regardless of what you think of the author, I highly suggest reading it.

[FIGJAM]

I expected more from this pres.

Seems he doesnt have the power most people thinks he has.

I would like a presidant that works 16hrs, a day and give a public update once a month instead of posturing for the masses.

Go to work dammit!

I repeat!

[neon tetra]

[quote="Bill Hicks"]I have this feeling man, ’cause you know, it’s just a handful of people who run everything, you know … that’s true, it’s provable. It’s not … I’m not a fucking conspiracy nut, it’s provable. A handful, a very small elite, run and own these corporations, which include the mainstream media. I have this feeling that whoever is elected president, like Clinton was, no matter what you promise on the campaign trail – blah, blah, blah – when you win, you go into this smoke-filled room with the twelve industrialist capitalist scum-fucks who got you in there. And you’re in this smoky room, and this little film screen comes down … and a big guy with a cigar goes, “Roll the film.â€

[FIGJAM]

Golf clap!

[can't sit still]

jk, I found a job opening for you;

10/7/2010
PRESIDENT OBAMA TOWN HALL, DC
PRESIDENT OBAMA TOWN HALL, DC MTV, BET, and CMT (prods.) are casting the audience for a town hall meeting with President Obama. Shooting Oct. 14 at 4 p.m. in Washington, DC. Seeking—Audience Members: males and females, 18+. To apply, email [email protected] and put "Town Hall" in the subject line. To ensure that the audience represents diverse interests and political views, include your name, phone number, hometown, school attending, your job and what issues, if any, you are ...[more] -Multiple-

Submissions only
Submission deadline is Oct. 14
Entertainment Jobs, Nonunion TV/Video, Reality TV & Documentary View Add to Inbox

http://casting.backstage.com/JobSeekerX ... Search+Now

[Elderberry]

Everyone is entitled to their own "opinion", but not to their own "facts"

These days (and the GOP is especially guilty of this), as long as you repeat something enough times, it becomes a fact (in peoples heads at least).

It's very scary, IMO.

Very scary indeed. The most insidious thing about this is that the Republicans are blatantly using these lies and scare tactics to manipulate this large group of uneducated people to help vote them into a position of power.

It is a sad state of affairs when higher education and knowledge are ridiculed rather than revered. But unfortunately the elitist class warfare is just another ploy of the republicans to prey on and manipulate this less educated portion of our population.

Political Correctness be damned. Some of these ridiculous beliefs, conspiracy theories and positions should not be tolerated, let alone reasoned with or even argued against. They just need to be dismissed out of hand.

How many people follow the Republicans as they scare them into thinking that "the government" is taking away their freedoms and killing the "American Dream". They all are fighting against the issues that will make their current situations better in the hope that when they own their own company and make millions of dollars, they won't have to pay taxes or be controlled by government regulation. When the truth is, that only a minute fraction of us will ever become millionaires; and when/if we do, we would be, and should, pay more in taxes to both support and thank our country for the opportunity it provided us the opportunity to achieve.

Same thing with the wars--nobody is really involved or connected. I wonder how long and even whether we would have gotten involved in these wars if there would have been both a war tax of 10% of gross income on every citizen for each war the government has gotten us involved in, along with a draft of every person in the country once they reach the age of 18? (The war tax would not be levied on any family that had a son or daughter serving in the war.)

(I should clarify that I am not using "uneducated" as a pejorative term; uneducated people are not to be made fun of, they are to be sent to school.)

[Elderberry]

I expected more from this pres.

Seems he doesnt have the power most people thinks he has.

I would like a presidant that works 16hrs, a day and give a public update once a month instead of posturing for the masses.

Go to work dammit!

I repeat!

You are one of those people that the president was chastising.

You are right, the president doesn't have as much power as people might think--there are, after all, two other branches of government.

This president has managed to move more legislation through congress (sweeping legislation at that), than any president in recent history. Why is it that people seemingly have know knowledge of this?

Now BUCK UP!



JK

[Elderberry]

jk, I found a job opening for you;

10/7/2010
PRESIDENT OBAMA TOWN HALL, DC
PRESIDENT OBAMA TOWN HALL, DC MTV, BET, and CMT (prods.) are casting the audience for a town hall meeting with President Obama. Shooting Oct. 14 at 4 p.m. in Washington, DC. Seeking—Audience Members: males and females, 18+. To apply, email [email protected] and put "Town Hall" in the subject line. To ensure that the audience represents diverse interests and political views, include your name, phone number, hometown, school attending, your job and what issues, if any, you are ...[more] -Multiple-

Submissions only
Submission deadline is Oct. 14
Entertainment Jobs, Nonunion TV/Video, Reality TV & Documentary View Add to Inbox

http://casting.backstage.com/JobSeekerX ... Search+Now

I know you will think I am being sarcastic, but I really think this is something that you should apply for. I think you would gain a lot more insight from attending this meeting and asking your questions directly than I would.

JK

[can't sit still]

"Some of these ridiculous beliefs, conspiracy theories and positions should not be tolerated"
And you are suggesting WHAT ?
"you would gain a lot more insight from attending this meeting"
OK, cool, I'll go to a meeting with a guy reading from a teleprompter with an audience who are vetted as being true believers. The whole thing will be scripted ahead of time.

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ! You could suggest that I look at his voting record. You could suggest that I look at the legislation that he has originated. You could suggest that I examine his handling of emergencies and big problems.
NOPE, not you. You suggest that I go to a scripted meeting.

[ygmir]

Very scary indeed. The most insidious thing about this is that the Republicans are blatantly using these lies and scare tactics to manipulate this large group of uneducated people to help vote them into a position of power.

It is a sad state of affairs when higher education and knowledge are ridiculed rather than revered. But unfortunately the elitist class warfare is just another ploy of the republicans to prey on and manipulate this less educated portion of our population.

Political Correctness be damned. Some of these ridiculous beliefs, conspiracy theories and positions should not be tolerated, let alone reasoned with or even argued against. They just need to be dismissed out of hand.

How many people follow the Republicans as they scare them into thinking that "the government" is taking away their freedoms and killing the "American Dream". They all are fighting against the issues that will make their current situations better in the hope that when they own their own company and make millions of dollars, they won't have to pay taxes or be controlled by government regulation. When the truth is, that only a minute fraction of us will ever become millionaires; and when/if we do, we would be, and should, pay more in taxes to both support and thank our country for the opportunity it provided us the opportunity to achieve.

(I should clarify that I am not using "uneducated" as a pejorative term; uneducated people are not to be made fun of, they are to be sent to school.)

Jeeze JK............you can lump the dems in there.........farm workers...inner city poor......big labor..........

change a few words and you have the dems........

and, the dems are just as good at hyperbole and scare tactics...........

I just don't see one side being any better.
They both lie, cheat, steal. They both go to war.
And they both have their own distinct "base" that they pander to.
But, I just don't see them as different.
Both have controlled any and all branches of government. And, screwed it up.
If,,,, if,,,,, they were "that good", they'd be elected every time.....but, it seems, at least half the people of this country, disagree with each party.
so......

[Elderberry]

have controlled any and all branches of government. And, screwed it up.
If,,,, if,,,,, they were "that good", they'd be elected every time.....but, it seems, at least half the people of this country, disagree with each party.
so......

No, not really the same, especially today. I can remember a day when things were different, but not today. I'm also not saying that the dems are perfect, just the best choice we have right now. Running the government is like steering a large ship--it doesn't turn on a dime. The budget situation was in pretty good shape at the end of the Clinton era and fucked up royally by the time GWB was done. So, half the people are saying give the other side a chance? Come on. The Dems really haven't had enough time and certainly haven't had any help from the other side either. Think of the unprecedented use of the filibuster.

Nothing in democracy is perfect, but unless people actually start to read (credible sources) and think for themselves, hope of things improving is pretty slim.

JK

[ygmir]

How, can you say the dems have not had enough time?
How many years, in the last 100, have they controlled any or all branches of gov.?
and, how does it compare to the reps?

IMHO, both, have had plenty of time to "do it right" ("right" being very subjective), but, neither has done it to any lasting effect.

Both, have also had plenty of time to screw it up.
and, IMHO, both have.

How, owing to a fairly balanced "time in power" situation, can anyone think either side is right, or, can get it right?.

The only time, I see them not screwing things up, is, when, they are gridlocked, and doing nothing.
I think Mark Twain had some great quote related to that.

I'm sick of "the lesser of two evils"...........that's how we got where we are...."they" know, we'll vote for them, no matter how screwed up "they" are, just because we don't want "the other person" to get elected.

well, yes, yes I am cynical............

[neon tetra]

Now with 'Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission', democracy has become even more of a myth. Already the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is becoming a money laundromat to funnel funds to the GOP from foreign companies & governments.

We were never a true democracy (heck, Gore got half a million more votes than Bush but still lost), but now we're officially a Corporatocracy.

[neon tetra]

How, can you say the dems have not had enough time?
How many years, in the last 100, have they controlled any or all branches of gov.?
and, how does it compare to the reps?

They don't really control all branches of gov't. That's another myth. Nonstop use of the filibuster pretty much neutered them for all intents & purposes.

On the other hand, the Democrats DO deserve plenty of blame for Bush's term. They were f&@king dumb enough to believe his lies & fear-mongering, and basically did nothing to stop him.

The "lesser of 2 evils" thing is unfortunate, but it's also the reality of our current political system. And that's not likely to change anytime soon.

[ygmir]

Now with 'Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission', democracy has become even more of a myth. Already the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is becoming a money laundromat to funnel funds to the GOP from foreign companies & governments.

We were never a true democracy (heck, Gore got half a million more votes than Bush but still lost), but now we're officially a Corporatocracy.

wasn't there a similar type thing between Kennedy and Nixon?

[ygmir]

How, can you say the dems have not had enough time?
How many years, in the last 100, have they controlled any or all branches of gov.?
and, how does it compare to the reps?

They don't really control all branches of gov't.

didn't say, at the moment, they do, if you read the entire statement. I was referring to, historically, who has and for how long, and, saying neither has done a good job.

That's another myth. Nonstop use of the filibuster pretty much neutered them for all intents & purposes.

yeah, 'cause, the dems have never filibustered....or used any other "parliamentary procedure" to derail legislation they don't like.
yup, I get it. They're just gettin' picked on.



On the other hand, the Democrats DO deserve plenty of blame for Bush's term. They were f&@king dumb enough to believe his lies & fear-mongering, and basically did nothing to stop him.

so, are you saying the dems voted for Bush? or, are you saying they're dumb? or, are you saying, they were dumb, but, now, are smarter?


The "lesser of 2 evils" thing is unfortunate, but it's also the reality of our current political system. And that's not likely to change anytime soon.

It's only the reality, if we allow it.
What about "none of the above"? What about write in candidates?
just some thoughts

[Elderberry]

How, can you say the dems have not had enough time?
How many years, in the last 100, have they controlled any or all branches of gov.?
and, how does it compare to the reps?

IMHO, both, have had plenty of time to "do it right" ("right" being very subjective), but, neither has done it to any lasting effect.

Both, have also had plenty of time to screw it up.
and, IMHO, both have.

How, owing to a fairly balanced "time in power" situation, can anyone think either side is right, or, can get it right?.

The only time, I see them not screwing things up, is, when, they are gridlocked, and doing nothing.
I think Mark Twain had some great quote related to that.

I'm sick of "the lesser of two evils"...........that's how we got where we are...."they" know, we'll vote for them, no matter how screwed up "they" are, just because we don't want "the other person" to get elected.

well, yes, yes I am cynical............

Yes you are, but it's time you put cynicism aside and pick a side and defend it. Or, as Obama might say BUCK UP!



JK

[neon tetra]

ygmir, you have a rather funny strawman style of posting.


It's like..


"Police brutality is getting out of hand in this town."

Jeeze,,,,,,like no other occupation has brutal people...yeah... its ONLY the police! boo hoo.




"It's cold outside right now."

IMHO....it's NOT cold compared to Mt. Everest. *chuckles* So I guess you now admit that global warming is a SCAM.




Anyway, to address your post..

You clearly WERE insinuating that the Dems control all 3 branches of gov't. First off, I'm not entirely sure you understand what the 3 branches are, because the Supreme Court is definitely tilted to the right, far more than it's been in a long time. I also never said that the Dems never used a filibuster, but the Republicans have been using it in record amounts. That's just a simple fact.

[can't sit still]

Right,, pick a side and defend it. Where do we start? Why don't you take the first shot. Defend / explain why we have been kicking the shit out of Iraq for 10 years. Explain why we're lighting up Pakistan. Explain why we're still fucking up Afghanistan with nothing to show,,, except opium?
You're great at the 2 word rebuttals / explanations; Buck up,,, Bullshit, etc
You're hopeless at presenting a rational argument, jk.
Do you think that we will abandon our positions when you can't offer anything but 2 word platitudes?
Get real.

[Elderberry]

Regarding the filibuster, it has NEVER been used by either party in our history the way the REPUBLICANS are using it now. Whether or not you find fault with the site (it was the first one that came up in my google search), they provide cites for their figures http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/03/02/re ... libusters/
and another site with the statistics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster ... .S._Senate

JK

[neon tetra]

explain why we have been kicking the shit out of Iraq for 10 years. Explain why we're lighting up Pakistan. Explain why we're still fucking up Afghanistan with nothing to show

Honestly, the best answer to all that can be found right here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6421983682#

[ygmir]

How, can you say the dems have not had enough time?
How many years, in the last 100, have they controlled any or all branches of gov.?
and, how does it compare to the reps?

IMHO, both, have had plenty of time to "do it right" ("right" being very subjective), but, neither has done it to any lasting effect.

Both, have also had plenty of time to screw it up.
and, IMHO, both have.

How, owing to a fairly balanced "time in power" situation, can anyone think either side is right, or, can get it right?.

The only time, I see them not screwing things up, is, when, they are gridlocked, and doing nothing.
I think Mark Twain had some great quote related to that.

I'm sick of "the lesser of two evils"...........that's how we got where we are...."they" know, we'll vote for them, no matter how screwed up "they" are, just because we don't want "the other person" to get elected.

well, yes, yes I am cynical............

Yes you are, but it's time you put cynicism aside and pick a side and defend it. Or, as Obama might say BUCK UP!



JK

haha I'd not dare use that phrase related to our prez.

[ygmir]

ygmir, you have a rather funny strawman style of posting.


It's like..


"Police brutality is getting out of hand in this town."

Jeeze,,,,,,like no other occupation has brutal people...yeah... its ONLY the police! boo hoo.




"It's cold outside right now."

IMHO....it's NOT cold compared to Mt. Everest. *chuckles* So I guess you now admit that global warming is a SCAM.



, are you psychic?



Anyway, to address your post..

You clearly WERE insinuating that the Dems control all 3 branches of gov't. First off, I'm not entirely sure you understand what the 3 branches are, because the Supreme Court is definitely tilted to the right, far more than it's been in a long time. I also never said that the Dems never used a filibuster, but the Republicans have been using it in record amounts. That's just a simple fact.

did I not reference "any or all", and, "the last 100 years"?

See, I think the Supreme Court statement you make, is totally subjective......you're POV being "left", you see it as to far right....
Mine, being so far right (anarchy, in the political structure sense), I see it as left.

and, are you saying, the reps are using some procedure "to much"?
If so, do you make the same statement, when the dems use other things/procedures, to work towards their goals?
If one side uses one method, and the other side uses several methods, is it different?
Do not both sides, use what they can, to advance their agenda?
I think they're both shit heels.......and, as such, have no patience for either.
I do, however, like to see balanced degradation, when it comes to saying "oh, we do the same things, but, you are much worse".


As a side note:
I see, (although I struggle to) that I'm not making myself clear. That my languaging is not accurate enough.
It must be so, because, to me, you are not responding to exactly what I (think) I'm saying, but, to something in a different context or attitude.

I will try to be more clear, and concise.

[can't sit still]

Neon, it didn't want to play for me. It said 1 hr,, 38 minutes. Could you give me a summary. ,,, you know... attention span

[Elderberry]

haha I'd not dare use that phrase related to our prez.

OK, I'm sure I'm missing some subtle something here, but why not?

JK