Jerri from Survivor and other celebrities

Share your pictures and video. Tell us about the sights, sounds, and scents, as well as the rumors and truths found at Burning Man.
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Ivy
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Post by Ivy » Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:08 am

So, in summary: you're basically saying I shouldn't judge someone until I get to know them.

How closely do i have to know them? one conversation? 5? Five years? Do I have to spend a week in a small enclosed space with them? Do I have to have sex with them?

You know, I'm really sorry that i judge everyone I meet on the way they present themselves to me. For every person I encounter, everyone I meet a ta party or at work or on the Metro or at Burning Man, I should probably go home, look up what they've done in the past, read everything they've written, study their history and then decide how I feel about them. Right?

No.

I judge people on the face they show me. Perhaps that why mamas tell their children to "put your best face forward." Someone may be a happy, perky person, but they day i met them they are having a bad day and cuss out everyone in sight. How should I interpret that? I'm going to interpret that as a cranky person. If I meet them later, and they do something different, my opinion may change. But I am not in control of what they choose to show to the world, Jerri or anyone else. And that's the thing--you may think I'm judging her differnt becuase she's a celebrity. I'm not. I say she's acting the way she is becuase she's a celebrity, and I'm judging her on the way she acts, regardless of why she does it. Why she makes the choices she does are her decisions (and I respect her right to make them, even though I may disagree with them). But I think it would be stupid not to realize or expect that people will judge her on that.

As far as your questions about being a writer (I'm not a woodwright, thank you very much), people will make whatever impressions they will make, clearly. Sometimes they're accurate and sometimes they're not. I used to write a lot of stories about fucked-up, depressed suicidal people. Does that reflect on me? Absolutely. I'd venture to say that, for instance, Picasso's blue period was a reflection on his feelings at the time, too. So I'd say, while not 100% accurate, there is a level of accuracy there.

I'm glad you believe disagreeing is acceptable, becuase I think it's pretty unlikely to happen in this instance. And the one thing I do agree on is that that's okay.
But as long as we agree it's not impossible, I've done as much as I could ever hope. :)
You've done as much? <snort> You're giving yourself a lotta props there, my friend. I could equally say the same about you.

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Ron
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Post by Ron » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:42 am

Ivy wrote:So, in summary: you're basically saying I shouldn't judge someone until I get to know them.
Nope. Go ahead and make your judgements. But when you publically express them, don't be surprised when someone points them out for what they are.

I don't believe in "shoulds," for the most part. You should be the best you you can be. And if you want some awareness on the accuracy of judgements made about folk based on their professional media appeances, here it is. If you don't, that's fine too.
Ivy wrote:...
You know, I'm really sorry that i judge everyone I meet on the way they present themselves to me. For every person I encounter, everyone I meet a ta party or at work or on the Metro or at Burning Man, I should probably go home, look up what they've done in the past, read everything they've written, study their history and then decide how I feel about them. Right?
Only if you really like dancin' with that straw man, sure. I didn't, and wouldn't, recommend it, but some folk enjoy doing the rhetorical tango with scarecrows of their own making and if you're one 'em go to....
Ivy wrote:...
....
You've done as much? <snort> You're giving yourself a lotta props there, my friend.
If I don't, who will? Snort away, it doesn't bother, nor matter, to me. My point has consistently been that evaluating folk as people based on their media appearances is setting oneself up for innaccuracy. Secondarily posting one's judgements based on this very limited and inherently dishonest pool of data opens one up to seeing disagreeing points of view. And both of those seem pretty reasonable to me, and worth adding to the meme mix given the pre-existing judgements in the pot...

Ron

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Tancorix
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Post by Tancorix » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:57 am

Ron, I've been trying to communicate the same points to Ivy, Badger, and quite a few others unofficially known as the Gang of 5 for almost a year now. I haven't been able to explain things as well as you have (not even close). But regardless of how well you say it, some of those people are like talking to a brick wall. The message is not going to get through.

I wish you well iwth your efforts though. Sometimes brick walls have cracks that can be breached. You never know until you try.

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Ron
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Post by Ron » Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:45 am

Tancorix wrote:Ron, I've been trying to communicate the same points to ... The message is not going to get through.

I wish you well iwth your efforts though. Sometimes brick walls have cracks that can be breached. You never know until you try.
See, now that assumes I'm trying to change Ivy's mind. That I'm trying to get something through to her. But I'm not. I don't care what opinions she holds, it's her right.

I'm writing not so much to Ivy, as I am to any readers. It's important to me not that Ivy change at all, but that the meme she created and put other there does not stand without an opposing alternative meme also in the mix. I'm not so much writing for her as I am for me, and for other readers, like you perhaps. So there's nothing to "get through," there's just ideas floating around. When I see an idea I don't like, taking up space, I tend to inflate an idea I do like and elbow it into the air as well. It's not that I want that first intellectual balloon to come down, it is that I don't want it to be the only one in the sky.

Make sense?

Ron

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Tancorix
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Post by Tancorix » Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:49 am

Yes. Very much so.

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Sensei
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Post by Sensei » Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:01 pm

I think Ron is the best thing to happen to this board in a long, long time.

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Ivy
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Post by Ivy » Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:19 pm

First of all, K, i am not nor have I ever been part of the little "Club of 5." If you want to try to "break my brick wall," you have my email address. Please stop posting your whiny little passive agreesive rants in every topic on the eplaya. It's not all about you.

Moving on...


I like Ron.* By far, this has been one of the best discussions I've had on the eplaya since September. While it's primarily been, visually, a one-on-one conversation, I think we are coming at it from the same angle, if not the same opinion. Neither one of us is out to change the others' mind--at least I wasn't, and even before Ron's latest post, I assumed he wasn't either, at least not seriously.



* It should be noted that I am making the judgement that I like Ron merely based on what I've read here. I have no idea what kind of person he is really until I get to know him. So I probably should refrain from liking him and forming a good impression of him until then. Right? :)

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Tancorix
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Post by Tancorix » Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:57 pm

Ivy: SMOOCH.

I apologize for the gang of 5 comment. I had just read P's post and she pisses me off something fierce. Still I screwed up...and I wanted to apologize in public.

And I certainly know your e-mail and you know mine. So do a few others. If anyone has rants, feel free to use it. Sometimes things are not what they are perceived to be, and an explanation is required.

Now back to the topic.

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theshaman
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simmer down now!

Post by theshaman » Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:46 pm

Come on guys...if you have been Mutayted then you know that we are all rock stars.

"Celebrity" is such a funny term. I did find myself standing next to Howard last year watching 2 chicks trying to ride a large pig...but I chose not to say anything. If he had been someone I didn't "recognize" I wouldn't have said anything...so I watched the pig ride.

Thankfully I have never watched any of the so-called "reality" shows. I actively boycotted the lot of them. If a "survivor" or an "Idol" came up to me, I wouldn't know them.

Now if I was to bump into Action Girl...oh I would just be all toungue tied!

I allow the playa to deliver the perfect people into my path...I try my hardest to notice my pre-judgements (cause don't you always have at least ONE about everybody?) and cast them aside. That is when magic tends to happen.

The Famous people to me are the one's I tell stories about afterwards, like the canadian woman who brought us Bacon covered with Maple syrup one morning....now she is a superstar...can't remember her name...
Buddha wasn't a Christian, but Jesus would have made a good Buddhist

Shaman

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Ivy
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Post by Ivy » Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:57 pm

if you have been Mutayted then you know that we are all rock stars
<snort>
(and that one was derisive, unlike the last one, which was meant in humor)

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Ivy
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Post by Ivy » Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:58 pm

like the canadian woman who brought us Bacon covered with Maple syrup one morning....now she is a superstar
That's what I'm talking about...

Mmmm...bacon....

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:56 pm

in a very real sense we're all "selling" ourselves here.
careful with that axe commander anti judgement. Please speak for yourself.

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Re: simmer down now!

Post by jbelson » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:10 pm

theshaman wrote: Thankfully I have never watched any of the so-called "reality" shows. I actively boycotted the lot of them.

THE ONE YOU SHOULD WATCH IS THE AMAZING RACE. TRUE QUALITY TV.
"I gotta have more cowbell"
Bruce dickenson, legendary rock producer

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Re: simmer down now!

Post by Sensei » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:14 pm

theshaman wrote:Now if I was to bump into Action Girl...oh I would just be all toungue tied!
Been there, done that. I was completely starstuck. "It's her! It's really her! That's Action Girl!" I almost fell of my damn bike.

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Ron
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Post by Ron » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:55 pm

Thanks for the kind words, Sensei. And Ivy, I like you too, so there. ;)

Ron

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Ron
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Post by Ron » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:57 pm

stuart wrote:
in a very real sense we're all "selling" ourselves here.
careful with that axe commander anti judgement. Please speak for yourself.
I'll easily grant that you're the expert on you and that there's always an exception. What, then, are your motivations for posting if I may ask?


Ron

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:20 am

I originally came here way back when to get some advice on installation construction. Someone told me there was this guy Bob who knew a hell of a lot about building shit that could withstand the conditions. Sure enough Bob kicked me in the right direction. The batten idea he gave me will still be implemented in the structure this year even though much else of it has changed. I had other questions as well. Now, you have been around the eplaya long enough to know that the signal to noise ratio is rather low. So, it takes a bit of time to get the info you are looking for but you get it if you are persistant. Along the way I became one of the folks answering the questions of others. Why would I do this? Because folks were kind enough to answer mine and I am into that justice thing. I don't trust the universe to mete it out all by itself. Anyhow, hang around long enough and you become engrossed in the community. Now I occasionally get questions answered and occasionally am able to help with other folks questions but at this point it is mostly habitual. It's a way to feed the BM jones more than anything else I guess. Like you, I occassionally ruffle feathers when I call people on their sweeping generalizations, especially when they don't apply to me. But as someone far more senior to me on the eplaya said 'anecdote does not equal data'.

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:21 am

How are you selling yourself

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Re: simmer down now!

Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:09 pm

theshaman wrote: Thankfully I have never watched any of the so-called "reality" shows. I actively boycotted the lot of them.
Hear, hear. I've seen bits and pieces of several, but I doubt I've seen as much as 2hours total of the whole craze. I find them very offensive to human dignity. (Yeah, some people actually care about that, silly me.) I also have an especial problem with the "Survivor" "concept" because to me that's not real survival. How would you explain it to your average Rwandan? Yeah, sure, my family may have been amoung the last to get out of Germany "with their furniture" and that qualifies as a pretty light experience in the context--but even a generation removed, I feel I know more about real survival than that show.




I realize that I'm being a little foolish in saying this, I've just felt this way for a long time. Thank you for letting me get it off my chest.

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Ivy
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Post by Ivy » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:28 pm

I also have an especial problem with the "Survivor" "concept" because to me that's not real survival.
I totally agree, even without the context of something like Rwanda. Though I confess I've seen less than a whole episode of the show, it always came across to me as a popularilty contest than a survival contest. Which is fine--but just say that's what it is.
I did watch a few of the eco-challenge shows for a brief time, while not survival on the level you mentioned, I did enjoy the aspects of survival skills necessary for the participants on that show, it always seemed that would have been more appropriate to call that show "Survivor" than the show with that name.

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Ron
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Post by Ron » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:05 pm

stuart wrote:.... I am into that justice thing. I don't trust the universe to mete it out all by itself.
You don't know how often I've told people, "Justice is created, not discovered. Who do you trust to do that creation?" So your sentiment resonates well with me.
stuart wrote:........ It's a way to feed the BM jones more than anything else I guess
Again, I completely understand. Between this, the RV getting serviced in my driveway, and the remembered waft of playa I'm just close enough to a fix to get by. :)

Thanks for the answers.

Ron

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Rob the Wop
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Post by Rob the Wop » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:07 pm

Rob's version of the Reality Show

Stick 12 money-hungry, shameless preppies in a locked room. One wooden table with a single buck knife stuck in the middle. Turn off the lights. Watch using night-vision cameras. Only person leaving the room gets 1 million. If anyone else leaves, they get fuck-all.

Could someone pitch this to NBC for me? I'd watch it if they made it into a show.
[b]The other, other white meat.[/b]

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Ron
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Post by Ron » Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:10 pm

stuart wrote:How are you selling yourself
In a back handed, half assed, way. In as much as I'm honestly presenting myself to this community I'm making a contribuiton that I hope will be positively received. Not in that I want to be liked, agreed with, or anthing of the sort, but that my participation in the community will be a postive input to that community. See the difference?

So, one could say I was offering myself as a "product." In as much as folk listen, respond, and enable the effort to create community they are "purchasing," my product.

Like I say, it's only in a sense of the words...

Ron

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chickenfish
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Post by chickenfish » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:13 pm

television is not reality
-chickenfish
chickenfish chickenfish you are not a pelican
chickenfish chickenfish your love is like a flea
chickenfish chickenfish your fins are so delicate
chickenfish chickenfish chicken of the sea

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samtzu
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Post by samtzu » Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:07 pm

Rob wrote:
Rob's version of the Reality Show

Stick 12 money-hungry, shameless preppies in a locked room. One wooden table with a single buck knife stuck in the middle. Turn off the lights. Watch using night-vision cameras. Only person leaving the room gets 1 million. If anyone else leaves, they get fuck-all.

Could someone pitch this to NBC for me? I'd watch it if they made it into a show.
I, for one, was gravely disappointed when I found out that the losers on 'Survivor!' were still alive. How in the hell can you call the last person left 'The Survivor' if there are others that survived? Fuck that! I like the Buck knife idea, but bare fingers is more like it.

Let's make the title 'Survivor' mean something.... then I might consider Jerri a celebrity...
:twisted:
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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chickenfish
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let the idiost kill themselves off on television

Post by chickenfish » Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:40 pm

Gladiator duels!
chickenfish chickenfish you are not a pelican
chickenfish chickenfish your love is like a flea
chickenfish chickenfish your fins are so delicate
chickenfish chickenfish chicken of the sea

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:48 am

I'd offer up


Cannibalism!


but that might encourage certain local undesirables.

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chickenfish
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Post by chickenfish » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:38 pm

The only way to win is to EAT EVERYONE ELSE!
chickenfish chickenfish you are not a pelican
chickenfish chickenfish your love is like a flea
chickenfish chickenfish your fins are so delicate
chickenfish chickenfish chicken of the sea

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Rob the Wop
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Post by Rob the Wop » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:40 pm

chickenfish wrote:The only way to win is to EAT EVERYONE ELSE!
I really wish you folks would stop talking about Raves all the time.
[b]The other, other white meat.[/b]

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:44 pm

Just jelous that the bouncers took your picture and won't let you in anymore.

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