Who's done a NOTAM at Burning Man?

phil · Post by **phil** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:47 pm

Anybody here or know someone I can contact?

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:32 pm

What's a NOTAM?

JK

Post by **Sham** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:53 pm

It's very much the same thing as a henway!

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:57 pm

Shambala wrote:It's very much the same thing as a henway!

About five pounds?

JK

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:39 pm

It's some sort of warning to pilots, afaict. Of course, since I got this off Wikipedia there will be a dozen people telling me I'm wrong, simply because that's where I got it.

None of that dozen will offer a better definition or an actual source they prefer.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:41 pm

Ohhhh you are so very wrong!

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Is it something on shortwave radio? Like weather alerts and such?

moonrise · Post by **moonrise** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:11 pm

google is fun

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:28 pm

Um, look up the airport on the main Burning Man website.

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:13 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:It's some sort of warning to pilots, afaict. Of course, since I got this off Wikipedia there will be a dozen people telling me I'm wrong, simply because that's where I got it.

None of that dozen will offer a better definition or an actual source they prefer.

Funny, because wikipedia is a very credible source. Much is made about the "anyone can edit it" policy, but that's exactly why it's so good. The average life span of an incorrect data point on Wikipedia is 4 seconds, according to studies done on it. When you hear someone deriding Wiki because "anyone can edit it" you know you're dealing with someone who doesn't do much research about anything.

Also, I have no idea what NOTAM is.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:19 am

Ive seen a poster advocating checking for NOTAM's in the mens restroom of the club house at the local airport. Don't know what it is either.

Post by **Eric** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:41 am

motskyroonmatick wrote:Ive seen a poster advocating checking for NOTAM's in the mens restroom of the club house at the local airport. Don't know what it is either.

Naughty Orgasm Time, Administered Manually

well, someone was going to do it!

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:43 am

A NOTAM is a "notice to airmen". It is generally used when there is a temporary situation that could pose a threat to the safety of an aircraft or restricted airspace. This could be anything from VASI lights inop to controled airspace due to a Presidential visit. In 2007 I contacted the FAA to give notice about the fuel blast for Crude Awakening. I was told that because it was such a short interval of time that the fire ball would remain in the air and the location of the BM event in relation to traveled routes that it was not required to create a NOTAM. They did advise to make certain there was no local traffic coming into the BM pattern, even though such traffic would be illegal at night because our airport is not lighted.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:49 am

JStep wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:It's some sort of warning to pilots, afaict. Of course, since I got this off Wikipedia there will be a dozen people telling me I'm wrong, simply because that's where I got it.

None of that dozen will offer a better definition or an actual source they prefer.
Funny, because wikipedia is a very credible source. Much is made about the "anyone can edit it" policy, but that's exactly why it's so good. The average life span of an incorrect data point on Wikipedia is 4 seconds, according to studies done on it. When you hear someone deriding Wiki because "anyone can edit it" you know you're dealing with someone who doesn't do much research about anything.

Also, I have no idea what NOTAM is.

There has to be some snarky remark I could make by challenging you to provide your source for this information, but I am too tired to think of one right now....

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:51 am

Eric wrote:
motskyroonmatick wrote:Ive seen a poster advocating checking for NOTAM's in the mens restroom of the club house at the local airport. Don't know what it is either.
Naughty Orgasm Time, Administered Manually

well, someone was going to do it!

This reminds me, I want to check and see if I still have a bookmark for-- OOPS! OUTSIDE voice in use! ABORT! ABORT!!!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:53 am

JStep wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:It's some sort of warning to pilots, afaict. Of course, since I got this off Wikipedia there will be a dozen people telling me I'm wrong, simply because that's where I got it.

None of that dozen will offer a better definition or an actual source they prefer.
Funny, because wikipedia is a very credible source. Much is made about the "anyone can edit it" policy, but that's exactly why it's so good. The average life span of an incorrect data point on Wikipedia is 4 seconds, according to studies done on it. When you hear someone deriding Wiki because "anyone can edit it" you know you're dealing with someone who doesn't do much research about anything.

Also, I have no idea what NOTAM is. :P

Yeah, I know. I am so sick of the anti-Wiki sentiment. Those people who think they've won an argument simply because wiki has been cited. Of course you go to primary sources if you're writing a research paper, and of course you can double check things, but for a widely accessible, free, and far more accurate than the average web page it's a damn good place to start.

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:12 am

BAS wrote:
JStep wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:It's some sort of warning to pilots, afaict. Of course, since I got this off Wikipedia there will be a dozen people telling me I'm wrong, simply because that's where I got it.

None of that dozen will offer a better definition or an actual source they prefer.
Funny, because wikipedia is a very credible source. Much is made about the "anyone can edit it" policy, but that's exactly why it's so good. The average life span of an incorrect data point on Wikipedia is 4 seconds, according to studies done on it. When you hear someone deriding Wiki because "anyone can edit it" you know you're dealing with someone who doesn't do much research about anything.

Also, I have no idea what NOTAM is.
There has to be some snarky remark I could make by challenging you to provide your source for this information, but I am too tired to think of one right now....

LOL, I don't remember the original source, it was cited in a story that ran on NPR by a woman on a panel.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:57 am

Bob wrote:Um, look up the airport on the main Burning Man website.

Okay - best suggestion so far. :->

Do those guys who use powerful lasers all over the playa have to get NOTAMs? (And yes, it's a notice to airman.) I'm thinking about shining a laser up in the air to mark our camp after the Burn when all the street signs are down, and shining lasers at aircraft is a violation of applicable law - hence a NOTAM.

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:23 am

phil wrote: I'm thinking about shining a laser up in the air to mark our camp after the Burn when all the street signs are down, and shining lasers at aircraft is a violation of applicable law - hence a NOTAM.

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=37280

See also threads cited in that one on laser light variances and regs. I don't actually think there's any enforcement from what I've read, maybe someone else knows more about the subject. Personally, I wouldn't have a laser pointed at the sky, although I don't know what dangers, if any, are represented by a laser encountering an aircraft. I'd tend to think there can't be any real danger or you'd have planes falling out of the sky all the time since lasers and idiots and people with ill intent all seem to be very common.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:01 pm

> Personally, I wouldn't have a laser pointed at the sky, although I
> don't know what dangers, if any, are represented by a laser
> encountering an aircraft.

I'm unconcerned about aircraft flying over a consumer laser from a safety point of view, but I don't want the bullies with guns and badges coming over and claiming I'm violating some law - hence the request for info on NOTAMs.

My email to info at the BM airport got a response that says they're all out on the playa and won't be back till after Labor Day. Sigh.

The reference to the links you provided seems to be very good (although the FAA website says lasers may cause "temporary adverse visual effects and/or physiologic eye to pilots." I hate it when there is physiologic eye). But that's the place I get the form from - many thanks.

I'd still appreciate any experience people have who've gotten permission to do a laser light show. I'm sure there are things I can point out about BM and the playa that makes a request more reasonable than just saying I want to point a laser straight up in the hopes I can see it at night and find my way home.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:23 pm

I had a small laser at my camp pointing toward the man. I don't even think it reached the esplanade from G although one camp mate said he saw it there.

I rationalized not asking anyone for permission for the laser because it was low power, fixed and in the case it was far ranging I made sure it was back stopped by one of the numerous large hills that surround the site. I am aware of the negative implications of painting pilots eyes with lasers and figured a fixed laser was of no consequence due to the extreme rarity that any craft would track in the same path of the laser for an extended time. Additionally there are numerous lasers in use on playa operated in a less responsible manner so.....

I used two equal power lasers. One red and one green. The green one performed much better and further research indicated that green has the best wave length for long distance transmission. Something you definitely want on playa to get through the dust. You are going to want to go with the widest diameter beam and the highest power laser you can buy. If I up grade my set up I am counting on spending at least $100 for the actual laser.

I have on occasion tried to buy an old pipe laser (ebay) which has a wide beam and frequently is adaptable to a 12 volt battery. They are primarily red but some come in green. The nice thing about pipe lasers is that the laser is enclosed in a housing with glass that is easily cleanable where the laser shines through. I know from working with one that they will shoot at least 1000 feet. The beam is roughly a half inch wide. The ability to dial them up and down and right to left is nice for fine adjustment. I'm looking for one that is broken in that regard but the laser still functions.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:40 pm

> I had a small laser at my camp pointing toward the man. I don't even
> think it reached the esplanade from G although one camp mate said he
> saw it there.

Now that's a thought. Instead of aiming it up, I could aim it toward the mountains across the playa and follow the beam back, if we could see it.

The issue is the power; consumer lasers are what 50mw? If you couldn't see it from the esplanade, it probably wouldn't be visible pointing straight up.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:07 pm

If you are going for something pointing straight up then I would use some sort of spotlight. IMHO a vertically oriented laser would be very hard to see unless it was really high power. I do think a nearly horizontal trajectory is best.

I saw numerous far ranging lasers on the playa. One on a mutant vehicle that I considered ideal. The range seemed to be about a mile and the beam width was 1/2" or so close to the vehicle. The legal lasers are quite low power. I'm looking for something more powerful than the laser pointer style thing I have now. Occasionally higher power used lasers come up on ebay and other market places.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:13 pm

> If you are going for something pointing straight up then I would use
> some sort of spotlight.

The issue is battery-power. I run everything off batteries, and I'm interested in having something I can leave on all night for Saturday, Sunday, and Monday nights. I've got a blue runway flasher now, and it sucks my battery dry in 5 or 6 hours, so I was hoping a laser would be low-power enough to run it for several nights. I'm thinking a spotlight would run my battery down even faster than the flashing light.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:13 pm

It sounds to me that a laser is exactly what you need to limit your power consumption. My little set up was ran off of 4 D cell batteries and it powered 2 small lasers. The batteries never went dead with roughly 24 hours of use time. When I had a new pipe laser back in the days when I was leading a pipe crew it would last about 32 hours on 4 D batteries.

My search for a reasonably priced pipe laser earlier today did not yield any good results. If I find something that I think would work well I will try to remember to let you know.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:46 pm

No laser with enough power to be seen in the daytime will be realistic from your camp. Nighttime it doesn't take much of a laser to be visible and there is no air traffic at night.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:56 pm

> I will try to remember to let you know.

Please do.

> No laser with enough power to be seen in the daytime will be realistic
> from your camp.

Only interested in finding my way back at night.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:40 pm

How about carrying the laser with you, so you can shine it at all the landmarks you took note of when you left camp?

phil · Post by **phil** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:34 pm

Bob wrote:How about carrying the laser with you, so you can shine it at all the landmarks you took note of when you left camp?

And what landmarks are those on Saturday night and Sunday night? :->

With so many people leaving, there _are_ no landmarks you can rely on.

Remember when you suggested using the Beaufort Scale for estimating wind speeds on the playa?
http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/A ... scale.html

Sic Pup · Post by **Sic Pup** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:51 pm

phil wrote:
And what landmarks are those on Saturday night and Sunday night? :->

JOTS - I didn't even have to count streets, I knew thy were strung between C&D and H&I and it was easy enough finding the avenue basis center camp, easy peasy, no trouble finding camp even in a white-out.

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:52 am

> JOTS

Ooh! Many thanks. And thanks after all to Bob! :->