Wikileaks...weigh in here.

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:35 am

"In a free society, we are supposed to know the truth. In a society where truth becomes treason, we are in big trouble." Rep. Ron Paul

I'm surprised that the usually vocal and opinionated eplaya hasn't been commenting on this story. I'm curious what your opinions on the subject are.

Personally, Julian Assange holds an almost hero like position in my mind. I've always known/suspected that our government was involved in a lot of very shady dealings, but having access to a lot of the information that is surfacing is kind of shocking to me. I believe that our government should be expected to follow the same laws as the people they govern. I haven't been this ashamed to be an American since GWB got elected AGAIN.

SO

Liz Estrada · Post by **Liz Estrada** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:22 am

i just read on Wikileaks that both John travolta AND Harley Dubois used to frequent the bath houses giving ethnic studs blow-jobs.

thats the REAL reason it was pulled from amazon.

she's got juice.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:53 am

SilverOrange wrote:I'm surprised that the usually vocal and opinionated eplaya hasn't been commenting on this story. I'm curious what your opinions on the subject are.

Maybe because we don't have the stomach for it on top of the 9/11 and I support the Troops threads.

Edited for something...

SilverOrange · Post by **SilverOrange** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:05 pm

Cool. Enjoy your rapidly disappearing freedoms!

Post by **Eric** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:30 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
SilverOrange wrote:I'm surprised that the usually vocal and opinionated eplaya hasn't been commenting on this story. I'm curious what your opinions on the subject are.
Maybe because we don't have the stomach for it on top of the 9/11 and I support the Troops threads.

That about covers it for me. I've plonked Neon & I'm going back to my "no political discussions on the internet if I can avoid it" policy. I deal with the issues important to me in real life with real people doing actual activism, not online slacktivism.

I only looked here because I read most of Fishy's posts.

And, exit thread.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:05 pm

SilverOrange wrote:Cool. Enjoy your rapidly disappearing freedoms!

Enjoy your completely retarded political discourse complete with so many strawmen it's a fire hazard, and Eric, Wait, I'm coming too!

Deb Prothero · Post by **Deb Prothero** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:08 pm

Julian Assange and the rest of the Wikileaks gang of journalists and citizen journalists are possibly a catalyst for the people to wake up and get active. One can hope.

The corporations supporting the demise of Wikileaks are suspect for having ulterior motives. What the heck does PayPal care if Wikileaks is doing its thing? If the US government is doing a "if you're with them then you're against us thing" and the corporations go along by cutting out access to Wikileaks then you'll know we're march stepping in double time to a complete loss of freedoms.

SilverOrange - possibly you've hit on a topic that a majority are in favour of. The real news now is who is curbing access, support, etc to Wikileaks.

I've heard of PayPal denying funding support to Wikileaks (not allowing donations and putting holds on their PayPal accounts). That combined with the PayPal issue with Burning Man this year is enough to make a real good start up opportunity for someone.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:18 pm

Eric wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
SilverOrange wrote:I'm surprised that the usually vocal and opinionated eplaya hasn't been commenting on this story. I'm curious what your opinions on the subject are.
Maybe because we don't have the stomach for it on top of the 9/11 and I support the Troops threads.
That about covers it for me. I've plonked Neon & I'm going back to my "no political discussions on the internet if I can avoid it" policy. I deal with the issues important to me in real life with real people doing actual activism, not online slacktivism.

I only looked here because I read most of Fishy's posts.

And, exit thread.

I plonked him too, but Eric don't stop visiting the political threads, there are some of us that appreciate your commentary. (Though, I admit that I don't visit/comment in those threads near as much as I used to.)

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:20 pm

I think the government classifies way too much information anyway. Actually, there was not much that they leaked that actually surprised me much, and I doubt that it's much different than what other countries say about us behind what they think are closed doors.

JK

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:34 pm

Blaming Wikileaks is like blaming your computer for the content on it. That said, I have a serious problem with allegations that Assange has been selling information, mostly industrial espionage, to competitors for cash to run the operation. In fact, that is why the co-founder said he quit. When Assange set a revenue goal of $5 million/year, his co-founder quit.

How would you like it if someone you employed in your household, say a housekeeper, went through all your personal papers and gave the information to a third party? Or if you had a business and some employee sent all your business information to a third party?

This isn't about governments. This isn't about "journalism". This is about trusting people and having that trust betrayed. Personally, I believe Bradley Manning should be burned alive at the 50 yard line during half time on Superbowl Sunday on live TV.

Assange is simply providing the spark to ignite the gasoline others have collected. He becomes a means for people to cause harm. Bradley didn't send those documents to Assange out of any idealistic to do good. He did it to lash out because he was angry. He *wanted* to cause harm.

There is very little in those cables except the usual diplomatic chit-chat. No bombshell revelations. They are basically frank reports between colleagues. How many of you would want your IM logs or personal emails posted to the Internet? This is fundamentally what this is.

The closest we come to any bombshells is the exposure of the coercion concerning keeping people "on the reservation" when it comes to "climate change" policy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ate-accord

What is so surprising here is how little meat there is for average people yet how much damage it does for US diplomacy overseas. We are now forced to move people around at State and it will likely result in a lot work by the secret services various dictatorships in rooting out and punishing people for talking to our diplomats.

Assange is an ass but the real vermin are the people feeding him information.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:38 pm

President Obama should sign an executive order temporarily waiving the laws related to assassination attempts on civilians and put out a death warrant on Julian Assange. America's best interests lie in having Mr. Assange laying in a casket somewhere with enough holes in him to make comparisons to swiss cheese inevitable. The cable that reveals critical infrastructure vulnerabilities should seal his fate as a true enemy of the state. In fact I consider him more of a threat to civilized society than Osama...and considering I buried a best friend thanks to 9/11 it takes something above and beyond to change my thoughts on Osama...but Mr. Assange did it.

In case that was too long winded: I want to see that fucker DEAD!

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:39 pm

If wikileaks were "real" we'd already know who landed in Roswell....

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:43 pm

Kinetic V wrote:President Obama should sign an executive order temporarily waiving the laws related to assassination attempts on civilians and put out a death warrant on Julian Assange. America's best interests lie in having Mr. Assange laying in a casket somewhere with enough holes in him to make comparisons to swiss cheese inevitable. The cable that reveals critical infrastructure vulnerabilities should seal his fate as a true enemy of the state. In fact I consider him more of a threat to civilized society than Osama...and considering I buried a best friend thanks to 9/11 it takes something above and beyond to change my thoughts on Osama...but Mr. Assange did it.

In case that was too long winded: I want to see that fucker DEAD!

Assange is simply providing a wall upon which other people write things. He didn't steal that information. He wasn't trusted with access to it. He simply has no scruples. Get rid of him and someone else is likely to take his place. That isn't the place where you attack the problem. The place where you attack the problem is people trusted with the information in the first place.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:45 pm

ygmir wrote:If wikileaks were "real" we'd already know who landed in Roswell....

Patience. I'm sure it's in his files. As much as I hate WikiLeaks....if they share some dirt on Bank of America and their Countrywide deal I'll sit back and smile. Countrywide fucked me...it would be nice to see some of the executive fuckers get their due.

If he had kept his mouth shut on the state secrets I wouldn't feel so strongly...but he basically gave those Islamic fundamentalist dumbasses with IQ's the same as our shoe sizes a golden map to hitting us where it really hurts. There is no forgiveness for that. None.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:48 pm

geekster wrote:
Kinetic V wrote:President Obama should sign an executive order temporarily waiving the laws related to assassination attempts on civilians and put out a death warrant on Julian Assange. America's best interests lie in having Mr. Assange laying in a casket somewhere with enough holes in him to make comparisons to swiss cheese inevitable. The cable that reveals critical infrastructure vulnerabilities should seal his fate as a true enemy of the state. In fact I consider him more of a threat to civilized society than Osama...and considering I buried a best friend thanks to 9/11 it takes something above and beyond to change my thoughts on Osama...but Mr. Assange did it.

In case that was too long winded: I want to see that fucker DEAD!
Assange is simply providing a wall upon which other people write things. He didn't steal that information. He wasn't trusted with access to it. He simply has no scruples. Get rid of him and someone else is likely to take his place. That isn't the place where you attack the problem. The place where you attack the problem is people trusted with the information in the first place.

Squeaky wheels get grease, bad coaches like Denver's Josh McDaniels get the boot, and figureheads for organizations that step on the wrong toes have a date with a hot piece of lead in their future. It's inevitable.

There are other countries without laws limiting their response...bottom line is St. Peter is checking the trap door at the pearly gates to make sure Mr. Assange goes where he belongs. I hope St. Peter doesn't have to wait very long.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:15 pm

Kinetic V wrote:President Obama should sign an executive order temporarily waiving the laws related to assassination attempts on civilians and put out a death warrant on Julian Assange. America's best interests lie in having Mr. Assange laying in a casket somewhere with enough holes in him to make comparisons to swiss cheese inevitable. The cable that reveals critical infrastructure vulnerabilities should seal his fate as a true enemy of the state. In fact I consider him more of a threat to civilized society than Osama...and considering I buried a best friend thanks to 9/11 it takes something above and beyond to change my thoughts on Osama...but Mr. Assange did it.

In case that was too long winded: I want to see that fucker DEAD!

this is either high parody, in which case you're a genius...

if you are serious, well, i guess i'll have to just PUKE ALL OVER MY FUCKING KEYBOARD!

jesus, what a fucking asshat thing to say.

and thats coming from me, so measure your response wisely.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:19 pm

.bottom line is St. Peter is checking the trap door at the pearly gates to make sure Mr. Assange goes where he belongs. I hope St. Peter doesn't have to wait very long.

ah, i see....

you're a CATHOLIC asshat....

go figure.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:01 pm

I see I hit a chord. Good. By the way I'm not a practicing Catholic.

I meant what I wrote. Every last bit of it. I'd even crack open my savings to donate for bullets for the cause.

That being said I fully expect to be in the minority with my opinion and I have no problem with that. Anyone that gives Al Qaeda a damn good target list like they did with that one cable....it's inexcusable.

If you support WikiLeaks, any blood shed will be on your hands just like it will be on his. It's only a matter of time before someone dies...if it hasn't happened already. One of many to come.

I grudgingly admit he's changed the course of history. I simply hope that history chooses not to smile on him and that my great grandchildren learn about him in the same breath as other famous traitors of the United States.

By the way I would offer you some wipes and a bucket for the vomit...but you're too far away for me to bring some over for you!

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:36 pm

WikiLeaks, isn't this the left over that dribbles down the crack of the ass?

moonrise · Post by **moonrise** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:39 pm

Fine example of a thread proving eplaya is NOT the playa
This thread is a ~HOT POTATO~

~!!Eplaya Political Dome!! Strap in and grab a foam sword!!~
(I hope you can all shake hands afterwords or take it into the WASH DC blogs & forums if you want to beat the senses out of eachother, sheesh)

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:43 pm

For example:

In a disclosure of some of the most sensitive information yet revealed by WikiLeaks, the website has put out a secret cable listing sites worldwide that the U.S. considers critical to its national security. U.S. officials said the leak amounts to giving a hit list to terrorists.

These are sites such as gas plants in Russia, etc. Most of the sites are not in the US. There is no political purpose served here, at least in the context of domestic US politics. An attack on these sites would have global consequences. This isn't about "truth". This is about vandalism. He (Assange) is no different than the "demonstrators" I would see in Europe would would simply walk through the business district of town smashing all the windows and setting fire to all the vehicles. It accomplished absolutely nothing. It was simply being destructive for the sake of it.

That is basically what Assange is, an enabler of vandalism on a global scale that could get a lot of innocent people killed for no reason. He isn't any kind of a hero but we have neutered ourselves of any ability to do anything about it. He should be arrested just for being stupid. They would have done that 50 years ago.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:47 pm

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:59 am

Kinetic V wrote:If he had kept his mouth shut on the state secrets I wouldn't feel so strongly...but he basically gave those Islamic fundamentalist dumbasses with IQ's the same as our shoe sizes a golden map to hitting us where it really hurts. There is no forgiveness for that. None.

Agreed. Which, when I first typed it, left off the A. greed, a Freudian slip per chance? I think quite possibly. But for Mr Manning, not greed in a financial sense, at least not until after he spends numerous years in a cell block. I think greed more for the fame, the recognition, maybe a way to get back at the gov't for something.

But Assange, yes, I think financial greed.

What else is to be gained by this? While I support Free Speech and Freedom of the Press I think this goes to far and has more potential to hurt individual people then it does the Gov't. Most people already know/suspect that the USG is deceitful and shady to begin with.

Aiee! It burns! · Post by **Aiee! It burns!** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:04 am

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B63K620101207

" A judge on Tuesday dismissed a lawsuit that sought to halt the Obama administration's program to capture or kill Americans who joined militant groups abroad "

so what are we when our cuntry has death squads ?

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:12 am

..and in other news, I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance!

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:15 am

Note the charges Assange is currently being held on from Sweden. This shows a certain personality pattern. He is accused of intentionally sabotaging a condom in one case and agreeing to wear one and then not doing so in another case. Both of those are crimes in Sweden.

Now why would anyone intentionally sabotage a condom during the course of a "one night stand" unless they wanted to create a problem? This guy has a pattern of simply wanting to cause damage in any way he can. He is, as the song says "a walkin' disaster, boy. He's the demolition man".

Maybe the guy was teased and picked on and he needs to become some powerful, destructive entity and be feared by people, or something. I have no idea, but I believe he has serious problems. Now that he is arrested, he is in yet another spotlight. I just wish he would go ahead and release the "doomsday" file as that would pretty much be the end of it. There is a saying: "if you have to eat a shit sandwich, don't nibble". We might as well get it over and done with but I suspect he doesn't want that. He wants that "sword of Damocles" hanging there for as long as possible because once it is gone, so is his "power".

This isn't, in my opinion, about any idealistic "information wants to be free" sort of nonsense (information doesn't "want" anything, people "want". Information tends to remain hidden until exposed by people, else we wouldn't need spies ... if all this information was working so hard to free itself). This is about Julian Assange's super-sized ego and the destructive things he does to gain people's attention and what he experiences as "respect".

Aiee! It burns! · Post by **Aiee! It burns!** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:28 am

geekster wrote:Note the charges Assange is currently being held on from Sweden. This shows a certain personality pattern. He is accused of intentionally sabotaging a condom in one case and agreeing to wear one and then not doing so in another case. Both of those are crimes in Sweden.

Now why would anyone intentionally sabotage a condom during the course of a "one night stand" unless they wanted to create a problem? This guy has a pattern of simply wanting to cause damage in any way he can. He is, as the song says "a walkin' disaster, boy. He's the demolition man".

How is this an international crisis?

wraith · Post by **wraith** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:54 am

It isn't. I'm actually hopeful that Assange will be out of circulation now, and the Wikileaks organization can get back to being a host for whistleblowers' material rather than putting off other pertinent releases to back Assange's tilting at the US Government windmill.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:00 am

wraith wrote:It isn't. I'm actually hopeful that Assange will be out of circulation now, and the Wikileaks organization can get back to being a host for whistleblowers' material rather than putting off other pertinent releases to back Assange's tilting at the US Government windmill.

Wikileaks is NOT a "whistleblower site". Wikileaks is a money making operation that sells or attempts to sell the information that people send to them. That is how the bulk of their money is made, according to the co-founder of the organization.

You send them information on your employer, their first stop with it is to your employer's competitors to see if they would like to buy the information before it is made public ... or maybe they offer to sell it back to your employer. That isn't exactly blackmail. It would be blackmail if an employee stole it and demanded money for it, but if someone sent Assange information and he offered it for sale to the highest bidder, a company might want to buy their own information back to keep it quiet.

THAT is how he managed to make millions of dollars per year. He was trading in "corporate intelligence". He just got lucky and got a bonanza of government intelligence from some pissed-off PFC who sent that information, not to "blow the whistle" on anything, but to simply lash out and cause damage.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:03 am

You might note in the several years that Wikileaks has been around, how little information they have actually released.

Wikileaks...weigh in here.

Wikileaks...weigh in here.

Rumor? or FACT!

Re: Wikileaks...weigh in here.

Re: Wikileaks...weigh in here.

Re: Wikileaks...weigh in here.