"I don't support the war, but I do support the troops&q

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:54 pm

I have a condition that keeps me out of the military: I value human life and only believe in violence as a last resort and for self-defense*.

When was the last time I called someone a murderer? Probably the last time I got into an argument with a recruiter that was trying to say that his killing in Iraq was protecting my right to disagree with him. I told him that my First Amendment freedoms were never threatened by the people that are being murdered in Iraq.

Now how about answering mine.

(* and no, invading a country and killing people is not "self defense")

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:56 pm

Eric wrote:Neon Tetra has pissed me off as well as many other here, I am not and will not defend the crap he's saying.

He does have a right to say it, however.

Well said Eric
don't agree with NT's points at all.
have no problem defending NT's right to say them.

doubt NT would ever defend me, or my family though.

maryanimal · Post by **maryanimal** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:12 pm

Once again, still not answering my questions. You must be in denial of some truth you can't handle...YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH...

hmmmm....what movie was that from?

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:20 pm

I can't handle the truth? How about you drop the bullshit already.
If you came home and your whole neighborhood was bombed and your friends & family were killed, you would say that they were murdered. Period.
You wouldn't say, "well it's politics . . blah blah blah . . and bureaucracy . . and that's just history and what happens . . and those people dropping the bombs probably needed $$ for college . . . and they were just following orders . ."

But somehow it's easier to make those excuses when it's other peoples families and loved ones being murdered.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:37 pm

neon tetra wrote:I can't handle the truth? How about you drop the bullshit already.
If you came home and your whole neighborhood was bombed and your friends & family were killed, you would say that they were murdered. Period.
You wouldn't say, "well it's politics . . blah blah blah . . and bureaucracy . . and that's just history and what happens . . and those people dropping the bombs probably needed $$ for college . . . and they were just following orders . ."

But somehow it's easier to make those excuses when it's other peoples families and loved ones being murdered.

You really need to learn the differance between murder and war.

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:42 am

Let's just use nice words like "casualties". It makes it so much easier to cheer on our troops that way!

To paraphrase a quote commonly (mis?)attributed to Stalin, "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic".

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:28 am

neon tetra wrote:Let's just use nice words like "casualties". It makes it so much easier to cheer on our troops that way!

To paraphrase a quote commonly (mis?)attributed to Stalin, "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic".

Why use nice words?
Dead is dead.

I doubt anyone here has any illusions about war, or death for that matter.

Wish our troops would never have to go.
Dam glad when they make it back home alive.

daratheresa · Post by **daratheresa** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:24 am

hmmmm. i've been reading this thread and biting my tongue for a few days now. my husband is currently doing his second tour in afghanistan as front line infantry. all i can say is that judging by what i see here, few of you have any idea as to what really goes on over there. so please, don't judge unless you've been there.

he and i have been keeping a blog, pm me if you're curious and want the link. i don't want to post it publicly as i don't want it crawling with people who are going to tell him that he is evil for doing his job. but here is a sample post:

My love, you will be so proud of me. a little girl in Ma'Ruf district was hit by a car, 4-6 years old. Massive head trauma.They couldnt get us the right grid. NOBODY could get the right grid. I had made a map of all the districts. I found the map, found the province center. Got the information to the medops people so we could send the chopper. Got the bird off the ground a good minute and a half-two minutes faster than if we had to wait for the grid. So happy.

...

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:56 am

So Neon, have you stopped paying your taxes?

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:04 am

Seriously, what the fuck is the point of this thread already. NT obviously has his mind cemented shut, and is intent on getting a rise out of you all. Plonk him and let it die already.

Or don't. Whatevs.

daratheresa · Post by **daratheresa** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:28 am

junglesmacks wrote:Seriously, what the fuck is the point of this thread already. NT obviously has his mind cemented shut, and is intent on getting a rise out of you all. Plonk him and let it die already.

Or don't. Whatevs.

i was sort of addressing everyone with my post, there are opinions all across the board through this whole thread. NT reminds me a lot of what my beliefs were like when i was young and ideological. but then real life happens and you wake up and see the real picture. if someone had asked me 15 years ago if i could see myself living a military lifestyle or being pro-army i would have laughed in their face. but we never really find out who and what we are until we're willing to truly go outside of our comfort zone, right? i used to not believe in yelling at children, either. then i had a few, and that changed quick.

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:31 am

I never would have thought that being against the mass killing of hundreds of thousands (millions by some estimates) of innocent human beings would be met with such hatred.

Nationalism is a helluva drug.

You know, I'm also against school shootings. Is that a valid opinion on eplaya?

daratheresa · Post by **daratheresa** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:03 pm

neon tetra wrote:I never would have thought that being against the mass killing of hundreds of thousands (millions by some estimates) of innocent human beings would be met with such hatred.

Nationalism is a helluva drug.

You know, I'm also against school shootings. Is that a valid opinion on eplaya?

if it were that simple i'm guessing there aren't many people here that would disagree with you.

i'm out, this thread is scary. only when we have empathy for all, and not just for those who agree with you, will we ever get anywhere. and that includes empathy for those not afraid to do a job that most of us couldn't or wouldn't do.

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:12 pm

daratheresa wrote:this thread is scary.

Couldn't agree more. Reminds me of Stanley Milgram's experiments, and how easily humans will blindly follow authority.

daratheresa wrote:only when we have empathy for all, and not just for those who agree with you, will we ever get anywhere.

Does this include empathy for the Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis, etc.? Or just Americans?

daratheresa wrote:and that includes empathy for those not afraid to do a job that most of us couldn't or wouldn't do.

Perhaps most of us couldn't or wouldn't because we SHOULDN'T.

"They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority."

daratheresa · Post by **daratheresa** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:47 pm

*zen smile*

Aiee! It burns! · Post by **Aiee! It burns!** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:51 pm

Let's focus here. Peace is good, Killing people is bad, War is bad.
Any problem with this so far?

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:54 pm

Aiee! It burns! wrote:Let's focus here. Peace is good, Killing people is bad, War is bad.
Any problem with this so far?

Apparently this opinion is blasphemous on here.

knowmad · Post by **knowmad** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:40 am

ah blather. I was away from the net for a few days, and this question stagers on to page 3.

"I don't support the war, but I do support the troops&q" [sic]

Neon hasn't shown his support for anything. He claims that War = Murder, Soldiers = Killers. Cut and dry, no other options.

After reading and thinking, and calm thought I arrived at this compromises on my "fair warning": I take it back. Of course you are free to show up. Apparently you will be surrounded by your loving fans. So please do feel free to say hello. I am not retracting my "Fuck You" you earned it when you forced me look at that horrid memory of mine. And I'm sure you could self justify this as being my just due, what I deserve, because I was there. just please have the decency to wear your name tag, so when I see it I can walk away from you, so my war can be over.
I too will proudly be wearing my Name tag, and if you see me feel free to apologize, it would give us a better second start than your disrespectful greeting ensued. And regardless how you react to my post perhaps hearing my story and thinking about something from another's persective could elicit a positive emotive response to a fellow burners struggle. But should you find the stones to make amends you will also find you have supported one of the troops.

I Didn't serve my country so some one could tell me what kind of rights I am defending, or so I could be publicly scorned. Or be paid lip service thanks by those that would deny me my self defense against the later. I Severed because I believe in the inherent goodness of the very Ideals that Tetra so aspires, Peace, brotherly love; and because The tyranny of the wicked, is held in check by the might of the just. not because we are those just men, but because I am a just man. and should any one ever publicly degrade a man for his service, and not his person, I will serve my public by serving justice to that one.

but here I'm done -plonk- move on. behind I leave a sad person, a loser that tried too hard and made an ass of himself. An Idiot and his question. A question that is obviously rhetoric, Never a stance taken by the one asking, only a mockery of those that address the authors inability to understand plain words and simple emotions.

This thread isn't scary, it's sad.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:34 am

knowmad wrote:ah blather. I was away from the net for a few days, and this question stagers on to page 3.

"I don't support the war, but I do support the troops&q" [sic]

Neon hasn't shown his support for anything. He claims that War = Murder, Soldiers = Killers. Cut and dry, no other options.

After reading and thinking, and calm thought I arrived at this compromises on my "fair warning": I take it back. Of course you are free to show up. Apparently you will be surrounded by your loving fans. So please do feel free to say hello. I am not retracting my "Fuck You" you earned it when you forced me look at that horrid memory of mine. And I'm sure you could self justify this as being my just due, what I deserve, because I was there. just please have the decency to wear your name tag, so when I see it I can walk away from you, so my war can be over.
I too will proudly be wearing my Name tag, and if you see me feel free to apologize, it would give us a better second start than your disrespectful greeting ensued. And regardless how you react to my post perhaps hearing my story and thinking about something from another's persective could elicit a positive emotive response to a fellow burners struggle. But should you find the stones to make amends you will also find you have supported one of the troops.

I Didn't serve my country so some one could tell me what kind of rights I am defending, or so I could be publicly scorned. Or be paid lip service thanks by those that would deny me my self defense against the later. I Severed because I believe in the inherent goodness of the very Ideals that Tetra so aspires, Peace, brotherly love; and because The tyranny of the wicked, is held in check by the might of the just. not because we are those just men, but because I am a just man. and should any one ever publicly degrade a man for his service, and not his person, I will serve my public by serving justice to that one.

but here I'm done -plonk- move on. behind I leave a sad person, a loser that tried too hard and made an ass of himself. An Idiot and his question. A question that is obviously rhetoric, Never a stance taken by the one asking, only a mockery of those that address the authors inability to understand plain words and simple emotions.

This thread isn't scary, it's sad.

*stands and applauds*

daratheresa · Post by **daratheresa** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:54 am

knowmad wrote:ah blather. I was away from the net for a few days, and this question stagers on to page 3.

"I don't support the war, but I do support the troops&q" [sic]

Neon hasn't shown his support for anything. He claims that War = Murder, Soldiers = Killers. Cut and dry, no other options.

After reading and thinking, and calm thought I arrived at this compromises on my "fair warning": I take it back. Of course you are free to show up. Apparently you will be surrounded by your loving fans. So please do feel free to say hello. I am not retracting my "Fuck You" you earned it when you forced me look at that horrid memory of mine. And I'm sure you could self justify this as being my just due, what I deserve, because I was there. just please have the decency to wear your name tag, so when I see it I can walk away from you, so my war can be over.
I too will proudly be wearing my Name tag, and if you see me feel free to apologize, it would give us a better second start than your disrespectful greeting ensued. And regardless how you react to my post perhaps hearing my story and thinking about something from another's persective could elicit a positive emotive response to a fellow burners struggle. But should you find the stones to make amends you will also find you have supported one of the troops.

I Didn't serve my country so some one could tell me what kind of rights I am defending, or so I could be publicly scorned. Or be paid lip service thanks by those that would deny me my self defense against the later. I Severed because I believe in the inherent goodness of the very Ideals that Tetra so aspires, Peace, brotherly love; and because The tyranny of the wicked, is held in check by the might of the just. not because we are those just men, but because I am a just man. and should any one ever publicly degrade a man for his service, and not his person, I will serve my public by serving justice to that one.

but here I'm done -plonk- move on. behind I leave a sad person, a loser that tried too hard and made an ass of himself. An Idiot and his question. A question that is obviously rhetoric, Never a stance taken by the one asking, only a mockery of those that address the authors inability to understand plain words and simple emotions.

This thread isn't scary, it's sad.

*and the crowd roars*
we have a winner...

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:29 am

Yes, what they said.

geospyder · Post by **geospyder** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:38 am

Ditto

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:31 am

And yet.. no one has answered my original question.
How can you support the troops and not support their mission?

Basically, you're all pro-war, but pretending not to be.
But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:38 am

lets try this nice and simple like.

The people who SERVE in the military are NOT PRO-WAR.

just the opposite.

no one wants to see that shit, NO ONE!

THOSE THAT HAVE NEVER WANT TO SEE IT AGAIN. PERIOD. THE END.

now go to your room and think about this, grass-hopper.

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:48 am

The people who SERVE in the military ARE THE WAR.

The end.

Everything else is just attempts at justifying the mass killings of human beings, the vast majority of which are INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

But, like I said, whatever helps you sleep at night..

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:52 am

my head-banging days are over.

plonk.

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:01 pm

neon tetra wrote:Why do you feel the need to announce that you're 'plonking' me? Am I supposed to feel bad?

It's better for both of us. You obviously can't handle the truth, and I don't need to deal with rubbish from pro-war imbeciles.
Win/win, ya know?

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:04 pm

you must be irish, because you just keep digging that grave deeper.

Aiee! It burns! · Post by **Aiee! It burns!** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:09 pm

It's a sneaky game to trick people into supporting war, pretneding were in the 60s spitting on returning vets and calling them baby killers . nobodys doing that now . But people who are anti war are accused of "not supporting the troops" Thats what your taxes do, support the troops . You pay your taxxes dont you ???

neon tetra · Post by **neon tetra** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:13 pm

Aiee! It burns! wrote: But people who are anti war are accused of "not supporting the troops" Thats what your taxes do, support the troops . You pay your taxxes dont you ???

I mentioned this in the very first post in here.