israel, judaism, jews and zionism

[can't sit still]

gyre, since they were separated by 50,000 years, I imagine that it never reached 2. Just imagine that you're the last man on earth. The future of the race depends on you getting a hard-on. All those cave-women to chose from. No pressure.

[can't sit still]

Jerusalem is the spiritual "reference point " for 3 religions. It is in an area that is poor in resources, water and arable land. All of these issues tend to make it a flash point for problems. The temple base is a monument to conquest, failure and destruction. An icon for victimhood.
The post-war influx of European immigrants created endless problems. The history of the Middle East is a history of conquest and control. The current chapter in this conquest involves israel bombing all their neighbors back to the stone age.

There isn't any possibility of this being a long-range solution. It may be a short-term solution that is espoused by zionism but, it isn't a long-term solution for judaism.

There is a universal desire for a homeland. Israel is a poor choice of real estate. Who wants to live in a garrison? Who wants to be required to continuously kill off millions of neighbors? What if there was an alternative? If israel could make the desert bloom, just think what they could do in a better habitat?
The Amish and Mennonites have packed up and moved,,
en masse . Why couldn't the jews do the same. Where would they go. It turns out that there is an alternative.

"But wait! There is a legitimate Jewish state, a secular one set up in 1928 in Birobidjan Russia, in accordance with Soviet secular nationalities policies. There is nothing stopping the entire population of Israeli Jews, orthodox and secular alike, from decamping to this Jewish homeland, blessed with abundant raw materials, Golda Meir's "a land without a people for a people without a land". It has taken on a new lease on life since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Russian President Dmitri Medvedev made an unprecedented visit this summer, the first ever of a Russian (or Soviet) leader and pointed out the strong Russian state support it has as a Jewish homeland where Yiddish, the secular language of European Jews (not sacred Hebrew), is the state language."
http://www.rense.com/general92/turkew.htm

This is a Rense article so, many will turn your nose up at it. Here's a link to Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birobidzhan
"According to Rabbi Mordechai Scheiner, the Chief Rabbi of Birobidzhan and Chabad Lubavitch representative to the region, "Today one can enjoy the benefits of the Yiddish culture and not be afraid to return to their Jewish traditions. It's safe without any anti-Semitism,"
Many jews oppose the wars. They see the mass killings as a huge negative force destroying judaism. The jews need to look for a long-term answer. Sure, they can blow the Middle-East back to the stone age. That won't stop their enemies in the long-term.

[can't sit still]

Haaretz is decidedly unhappy with the israelis throwing a holder of the Nobel peace prize,,, in jail. http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... n-1.316807

[Rabbi Dali Rick]

I just started reading this, don't know if it's been posted here before , but it seems to be an interesting read...
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... zion18.htm

the rebbi

[can't sit still]

Rabbi, millions of people all over the world are hoping that the jews are waking up to the evil and danger of zionist attitudes. The jews suffered a huge number of pogroms. The hard-line zionist response to these pogroms is a good ass-kicking for the whole world. Just as the pogroms have ended, the mad-dog attacks on the goy need to end. We no longer live in the brutal world of the old testament. The strategies of the talmud and the old testament are FAR to brutal for a world with birth control and super weapons.

Birth control means that we don't have to constantly fight for living space. Most jews don't espouse the zionsit attitude of total world control and ethnic cleansing. The russian immigration to israel gave it a new lease on life. The settlers are REALLY rabid bunch.

[can't sit still]

The various groups in israel are SO divisive. Sometimes they fight about the stupidest things. What ever happened to unity?
"Musicians from the orchestra have been told they are not obliged to take part, and have been assured that none of the rehearsals of the one piece of Wagner music on the programme, the Siegfried Idyll, will take place on Israeli soil."
Can't play Wagner on israeli soil. Them's fighting words.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/oc ... tra-invite

The next divisive issue is a "loyalty oath".
It's pitting jew against jew. How do they expect the country to hold together if they piss-off everybody?
"Apologists who claim that any state has the right ask would-be citizens to swear loyalty to the state (with spurious analogies to the USA et al.) must explain why Jews are then not included in this new legislation.

For it is well known that among the ultra-Orthodox Jews many are disloyal to the Israeli state. In that community there is a thick vein of anti-Zionism, based on the belief that the modern state of Israel is a heresy and that Zion will only be restored with the arrival of the Messiah.

Indeed its most extreme sect, Neturei Karta, has openly collaborated with Israel’s most hated foes including Tehran’s Holocaust denier-in-chief, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. By contrast, considering their invidious position, one million Arab Israelis have been remarkably accepting and passive towards the nation that inherited them, by way of war.

This move towards discriminatory ethnocentrism is all the more demented as it is sponsored by the ultra-nationalist Yisrael Beiteinu, the party of Israelis from the former Soviet Union, headed by the Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, a constituency that includes several hundred thousand recent immigrants who are not even Jewish."

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/julia ... precedent/
Evidently, israel doesn't have enough external enemies. They are reaching out to piss-off everyone within their borders. What sort of megalomania drive a country to suicide?

[can't sit still]

This is an interesting article about the Middle-Eastern communities taking a LONG historical view about the problems in their neighborhood.
http://www.opinion-maker.org/2010/10/is ... th-throes/
After all, they live in an area that had civilization at least 12,000 BCE.

[neon tetra]

Just to illustrate how much disproportionate influence the Jews have on the media vs. other religions.....

The other day, Mike Rosen, a talk radio host on 850 am, said about the proposed Islamic center in downtown Manhattan:
"I think they should be allowed to build it, followed by the hijacking of an Iranian plane right into that building and blow it to smithereens."

So he's advocating killing Muslims, destroying a place of worship, as well as another terrorist attack on New York City.

And guess what? He didn't apologize; he didn't get fired.

Now just *imagine* that it was a Muslim saying that about Jews being killed & a Synagogue being destroyed.
Do you think it would be ignored?
Or would there be a hurricane Katrina sized shit-storm?

I think we all know the answer to that.

[can't sit still]

I think it's great idea. I'm sure that Mike Rosen will volunteer to be the pilot.
The jews need to control the media. Their entire "construct" is based on shoving the 'holocaust' down the throat of guilt-ridden goy. Can't do that without an iron grip on ALL the media. Consider Elie Wiesel. He incessantly preaches that 10,000 to 20,000 people a day were gassed when he was in the camp.
Encyclopedia Brittanica says that the camp housed 20,000 people total. It also says that many died of typhus and other diseases. There was a Red Cross office at every camp. Their records show no wholesale executions.
It takes a LOT of control and propaganda to counter history. The only reason to pass holocaust-denier laws is; the holocaust won't stand up to critical examination.
Is there ANY other 'facet" of history that is "off-limits" to examination? There are plenty of books that prove that the "Inquisition" was directed at killing and looting the jews. There is nothing sacrosanct in history.

[can't sit still]

The authenticity of the Protocols of Zion is, of course, open to debate. What about the Talmud?
"The concept of gentiles being infra-human beings or quasi-animals is well-established in Orthodox Judaism." Is this attitude permissible in today's world?
"However, while the Reform and Conservative sects of Judaism, have related positively to such calls, most Orthodox Jews have totally rejected the calls, arguing that the Bible is God’s word which can’t be altered under any circumstances.

The Bible says that non-Jews living under Jewish rule must serve as “water carriers and wood hewersâ€

[can't sit still]

Just to illustrate how much disproportionate influence the Jews have on the media vs. other religions.....
And guess what? He didn't apologize; he didn't get fired.

Now just *imagine* that it was a Muslim saying that about Jews being killed & a Synagogue being destroyed.
Do you think it would be ignored?
Or would there be a hurricane Katrina sized shit-storm?

I think we all know the answer to that.

I don't think"disproportionate" is the correct word. Some of the very public statements by jewish leaders are so insanely blatant that total media control is necessary.

[can't sit still]

This is an interesting development.
"This addition is especially ominous for Christians because Attorney General Holder admitted federal hate crimes law does not protect Christians but only Jews and Muslims. (See NPN Video, 'Holder Admits: No Equality Under Hate Bill'":
http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/dont ... esshtm.htm
I could go to jail if my posts on this thread cause emotional distress..... Bummer

[can't sit still]

This is very interesting. AIPAC has consistently been used to fund candidates and buy U.S. elections. JFK was very much against it. Now, it appears that another group is going after them;
"IRS Asked to Revoke AIPAC's Tax Exemption"
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 02939.html
The complaint is 1389 pages so, I imagine they list a large number of purported violations.
It will be interesting to see what action results from the complaint.

[can't sit still]

The news gets more odd every day that goes by. Both Brazil and Argentina have recognized Palestine and it's pre-1967 war borders.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... s-1.329317
I can't imagine why they would do that. Israel has warned that this action will destroy or hinder the peace process. Said peace process is nothing but a sick joke.
Why Argentina and Brazil,,, Why now? What do they have to gain?

The latest reports say that Iran and Russia together will control 50 % of the Gas and Oil in the world. Brazil will also control a huge amount. Is the world re-aligning THAT much to where Brazil and Argentina can afford to anger israel?
There is talk of including Russia in the WTO,,, maybe even, the Eurozone;
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B621R20101207
. Does this imply that Russian oil and gas would be used to supplant Middles-Eastern oil that is declining rapidly? A serious decline in Middle-Eastern oil production would tend to sideline israel's importance as a forward garrison for America.
israel is demanding that Turkey accept an apology for the Flotilla raid. This apology would include a claim that israel had NO MALICE in the raid.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... t-1.329373

israel has to be fucking bonkers to make a demand that is so obviously inaccurate. What does this gain them? Are they SO deluded to think that their claim will hold any water? Very strange news.

[can't sit still]

The israelis are sometimes their own worst enemies. They hope to one day have "greater Israel" that would include many territories that they don't currently "own".
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre ... ry695.html
It seems so very strange and / or stupid to contaminate ANY areas that might be a part of a future "greater israel" The israelis are using depleted uranium and poisonous radioactive gases in many areas very close to home. Don't they care? Don't they know?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/12/11 ... ose-of-du/

[Simon of the Playa]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Here and there]

And Israel is saying, "They were provoking us to react, so we had to react!" How stupid is that? A major tool in unequal conflict is for the little guy to make the big guy overreact. Then the big guy looks like a bully, the world agrees with the little guy,and the big guy loses. Haven't people figured that out by now? When I was a kid my 5 yrs younger sister would irritate and annoy me until I lashed out verbally. Then she'd cry, and I'd be in trouble. I figured the trick out pretty quickly and stopped lashing out. How come Israel (and the US, for that matter) can't figure out what was obvious to me at age 12?

Because your sister hadn't been launching missiles at you and blowing up your home for the last few years, dumb ass. Hamas had been doing exactly that from Gaza, and the blockade was in place to cut off the flow of weaponry.

As for how "the world" views that, fuck their feelings and fuck yours, as well. Who the fuck are you to sit, snug and secure in a safe location, and tell somebody else that he should let himself get blown up?

[Here and there]

Just to illustrate how much disproportionate influence the Jews have on the media vs. other religions.....

Just to illustrate how much crap you're full of - America loses two buildings, nine years ago, a few Muslims can be seen on TV burning flags, and we hear calls for genocide on that basis. Israel gets invaded and bombed on a regular basis, and is expected to "suck it up", to use an expression that white ultra-liberal assholes seem extremely fond of. White ultra-conservative assholes, as well.

Here's a thought - maybe what everybody in the region needs to see is that the Jews aren't necessarily the enemies of the Muslims, and the Muslims aren't necessarily the enemies of the Jews. Maybe both sides should try to come to some sort of reasonable mutual understanding, so they can both focus their hatred on a more deserving target.

Assholes like you.

[can't sit still]

Hmmm, this is interesting. 1 person said that this thread is in serious need of thread drift. People have posted about off-topic stuff like pickles or Ernesto Guevara. Simon posted a vid that is vacuous and unrelated to the topic.
Dr. Pyro wrote that "In my opinion, it's all the fault of the useless goyim."

The hasbara have showed up a few times to try to derail the thread. Others evidently hope to cause the whole thread to descend into flames. The H & T sock just spewed a bunch of profanity possibly hoping for flames and termination.
These people all could just ignore the thread. Nope, NO WAY !

Is the illumination and enumeration of negative aspects of israel THAT painful? On this board, we denigrate everything in sight. why not israel?
Diane 'o thirst wrote "I'm probably going to get neck-deep in flames for this"
What is going on? This is a discussion board. Why would she preface her post by this comment? Do the goy have a knee-jerk reaction at the mention of jew or israel?
Why should Diane expect flames for voicing her opinion in civil terms?

One must keep in mind that fear and hate go hand in hand.
When people do crude, vicious attacks for no justified reason, how do those people come across to the larger audience? Do the attackers think that the readers on this board are dimwits? Have we [the world] come to expect attacks if we say anything negative about the subjects of this thread?
Is that the dominant meme? ANY attack or negative comment related to jews is intolerable?
OK, fair enough. Here's a statement from a vid by a guy who survived the the camps.
Hopefully, the jews will one day wake up to the fact that judaism has been hijacked by criminals.

"You don't have to be Jewish to respect the long standing tradition of justice and humanitarianism promoted by real Judaism.

I don't know what religion is practiced in Israel - most Israeli politicians are "non-observant" - but to call Israel a "Jewish" state is a fraud.

Israel is a state of fascists and gangsters who use Judaism as a cover for their criminal enterprises.

To support "The State of Israel" as it currently conducts itself is the most profoundly anti-semetic thing anyone could ever possibly do.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/992.html

Y'all can continue with the attacks and diversions. Do you really think that these attacks convince the larger audience? Can you ignore the fact that continuous attacks "color" the attacker? Do you think that the diversions erase the rest of the content?

"Maybe both sides should try to come to some sort of reasonable mutual understanding, so they can both focus their hatred on a more deserving target. "
Just WHAT is this supposed to mean? Here's an alternative;
Maybe both sides should try to come to some sort of mutual understanding so that they can put the hate behind them and work towards a better future.
Throughout history, Jerusalem has produced rivers of blood. It will continue to produce rivers of blood any time that one group tries to monopolize it. Nobody can ignore history. How many millions have died down through history trying to control Judea?

[neon tetra]

It seems so crazy that it's impossible to have a legitimate discussion about this subject. You can't be critical of Israel without being labeled a "Jew hater" or the like.

However, think of all the $$$ that's been spent to make that so.

[Here and there]

It seems so crazy that it's impossible to have a legitimate discussion about this subject.

Yeah, isn't it just awful, the way people who respond to you insist on remembering what you said?

Plonkity-plonk.

[neon tetra]

huh?

[can't sit still]

Neon, I'm not sure that "legitimate" is the correct word. Some years ago, I wrote something mildly critical of israel. At BRC, SED gave me a live cartridge from a high-powered hunting rifle,,, with my name on it.
Now, I see that Europe may recognize the palestinian state because israel refuses to stop the settlements;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... state.html
This sort of action only engenders more hate. Are people becoming THAT desperate?

[neon tetra]

Neon, I'm not sure that "legitimate" is the correct word. Some years ago, I wrote something mildly critical of israel. At BRC, SED gave me a live cartridge from a high-powered hunting rifle,,, with my name on it.

Not sure who SED is, but I certainly won't be at the meet n greet b/c people have already told me I'm not welcome there b/c of my strong anti-war views, and have made roundabout threats to me. Which is a bit ironic, IMO.

[knowmad]

Neon, I'm not sure that "legitimate" is the correct word. Some years ago, I wrote something mildly critical of israel. At BRC, SED gave me a live cartridge from a high-powered hunting rifle,,, with my name on it.

Not sure who SED is, but I certainly won't be at the meet n greet b/c people have already told me I'm not welcome there b/c of my strong anti-war views, and have made roundabout threats to me. Which is a bit ironic, IMO.

Wrong. and Cross threaded.
you Probably would be there but without the Balls to wear your Name Tag.

[neon tetra]

knowmad, you mentioned on 2 separate occasions that you 'plonked' me.

so how about you actually do it already & get off my genitalia?

thanks.

[DVD Burner]

Neon, I'm not sure that "legitimate" is the correct word. Some years ago, I wrote something mildly critical of israel. At BRC, SED gave me a live cartridge from a high-powered hunting rifle,,, with my name on it.

Not sure who SED is, but I certainly won't be at the meet n greet b/c people have already told me I'm not welcome there b/c of my strong anti-war views, and have made roundabout threats to me. Which is a bit ironic, IMO.

dont feel bad.

I am one of the oldest on eplaya and DEFINITELY ONE OF THE OLDEST IN BURNINGMAN and i can tell you, SED is an ASS!

Blow SED off!



fact is and it is a fact, SED is an idiot.

Follow ALL OF MY THREADS!

[DVD Burner]

Go to the meet and greet this year! 2011.

[neon tetra]

wtf is a sed?

[can't sit still]

SED is a guy from Utah,, I believe. I went to the memberlist but, it's more or less useless. I can't believe that the member list is 502 pages long. I CAN believe that ygmir is numero dos in the number of posts. SED didn't strike me as being particularly obnoxious.