Ugandan 'Kill The Gays' bill sponsor & his GOP ties

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:17 pm

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:26 pm

jkisha wrote:
Trishntek wrote:Sodomy laws are not all that far in history of the U.S.A. In fact, there are, correct me if I'm wrong, still sodomy laws in a state or two.

Whether the GOP is involved with an organization that influences policy in a foreign land does not seem to be the thrust of the video. Is this guilt by association? So is everyone who has ever shopped at or worked for Good Will Industries also equally guilty of killings gays in Uganda? Are there no DNC members associated with The Family? I doubt that is true.
I believe all the Sodomy laws in the US have been overturned except "Three states have yet to repeal anti-homosexual "conduct" laws: Oklahoma, Kansas[4] and Texas."

Here are the dates, specifics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law ... ted_States

RE: DNC involved with the family, not so much.

JK

I thought the supremes had essentially killed those laws with that case from Texas 6 or so years back.

littleflower · Post by **littleflower** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:14 am

Nauseating stuff, for sure .... but still, this tendency to paint conservative christians with a wide brush seems every bit as absurd to me as painting all muslims with the terrorist label. i know plenty of very conservative christians who are appalled at this sort of legislation. they are also appalled at people who murder abortion doctors. and positively fearful when the anti-christian hate speech pops up.

honestly ... there are a great many conservative christians in this country, but almost zero public support for this extremist garbage ... they won't even try it here. Note that in several of badger's NPR stories, those ugandan politicians blame the west for creating the gay "problem" there ... how can you also blame the US for promoting the anti-gay legislation? a few whack-job assholes, yes ... but an entire political party? i don't think so.

Ugandans even seem to be willing to jeopardize US aid if this bill passes - i suspect that's where the true colors will show.

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:38 am

littleflower wrote:Nauseating stuff, for sure .... but still, this tendency to paint conservative christians with a wide brush seems every bit as absurd to me as painting all muslims with the terrorist label. i know plenty of very conservative christians who are appalled at this sort of legislation. they are also appalled at people who murder abortion doctors. and positively fearful when the anti-christian hate speech pops up.

honestly ... there are a great many conservative christians in this country, but almost zero public support for this extremist garbage ... they won't even try it here. Note that in several of badger's NPR stories, those ugandan politicians blame the west for creating the gay "problem" there ... how can you also blame the US for promoting the anti-gay legislation? a few whack-job assholes, yes ... but an entire political party? i don't think so.

Ugandans even seem to be willing to jeopardize US aid if this bill passes - i suspect that's where the true colors will show.

You can paint all religion with the same broad brush...it's just that the extremists get most of the paint from the center of the brush where the more mainstream get whatever paint is left at the edges. Anyone that actually believes in some imaginary being in the sky has a portion of their brain that is just not rational...and the more strongly they believe the less rational they become.

But I digress...the people that are sponsoring the Ugandan bill are doing it specifically in the hope that once passed here it will then start spreading to other countries. This is a technique that has been used by conservative religious groups many times in the past.

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:40 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
jkisha wrote:
Trishntek wrote:Sodomy laws are not all that far in history of the U.S.A. In fact, there are, correct me if I'm wrong, still sodomy laws in a state or two.

Whether the GOP is involved with an organization that influences policy in a foreign land does not seem to be the thrust of the video. Is this guilt by association? So is everyone who has ever shopped at or worked for Good Will Industries also equally guilty of killings gays in Uganda? Are there no DNC members associated with The Family? I doubt that is true.
I believe all the Sodomy laws in the US have been overturned except "Three states have yet to repeal anti-homosexual "conduct" laws: Oklahoma, Kansas[4] and Texas."

Here are the dates, specifics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law ... ted_States

RE: DNC involved with the family, not so much.

JK
I thought the supremes had essentially killed those laws with that case from Texas 6 or so years back.

You may be right, that Wiki article I posted was a bit hard for me to interpret, you might have better luck at it.

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:40 am

jkisha wrote:
littleflower wrote:Nauseating stuff, for sure .... but still, this tendency to paint conservative christians with a wide brush seems every bit as absurd to me as painting all muslims with the terrorist label. i know plenty of very conservative christians who are appalled at this sort of legislation. they are also appalled at people who murder abortion doctors. and positively fearful when the anti-christian hate speech pops up.

honestly ... there are a great many conservative christians in this country, but almost zero public support for this extremist garbage ... they won't even try it here. Note that in several of badger's NPR stories, those ugandan politicians blame the west for creating the gay "problem" there ... how can you also blame the US for promoting the anti-gay legislation? a few whack-job assholes, yes ... but an entire political party? i don't think so.

Ugandans even seem to be willing to jeopardize US aid if this bill passes - i suspect that's where the true colors will show.
You can paint all religion with the same broad brush...it's just that the extremists get most of the paint from the center of the brush where the more mainstream get whatever paint is left at the edges. Anyone that actually believes in some imaginary being in the sky has a portion of their brain that is just not rational...and the more strongly they believe the less rational they become.

But I digress...the people that are sponsoring the Ugandan bill are doing it specifically in the hope that once passed here it will then start spreading to other countries. This is a technique that has been used by conservative religious groups many times in the past.

JK

*chuckling*

yeah, 'cause Uganda sets the tone for most of the rest of the worlds social decisions..........

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:44 am

ygmir wrote:
*chuckling*

yeah, 'cause Uganda sets the tone for most of the rest of the worlds social decisions..........

*grinning ear-to-ear* Oh yea, you can laugh now, but listen to this:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =121605525

But once something like this takes hold in one seemingly benign country they have a way of then becoming 'legitimate' in the eyes of other seemingly benign countries and on and on... Ask the Germans if you don't believe me.

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:56 am

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:
*chuckling*

yeah, 'cause Uganda sets the tone for most of the rest of the worlds social decisions..........
*grinning ear-to-ear* Oh yea, you can laugh now, but listen to this:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =121605525

But once something like this takes hold in one seemingly benign country they have a way of then becoming 'legitimate' in the eyes of other seemingly benign countries and on and on... Ask the Germans if you don't believe me.

JK

yeah, I'm somewhat familiar with the Uganda thing.

I'd submit, though, that cutting off the hands of thieves (ala mid-east), or stoning adulterers, etc, has not caught on elsewhere............

I see what you say, but, with extremes such as this, I just don't see it spreading, to the rest of the "rational" world. Sure, it may well spread to Iran, Uzbekistan, Somalia, or even Trinidad/Tobago, but, really, I don't see it going anywhere, even if it does pass.

and, I'm not getting the German analogy.........

Might you mean "ask the Italians and French"? Seeing IIRC, they (well, Mussolini and the Vichy ) jumped in with Hitler willingly?

Or, perhaps, North Korea, taking China's lead?

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:29 am

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:
*chuckling*

yeah, 'cause Uganda sets the tone for most of the rest of the worlds social decisions..........
*grinning ear-to-ear* Oh yea, you can laugh now, but listen to this:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =121605525

But once something like this takes hold in one seemingly benign country they have a way of then becoming 'legitimate' in the eyes of other seemingly benign countries and on and on... Ask the Germans if you don't believe me.

JK

yeah, I'm somewhat familiar with the Uganda thing.

I'd submit, though, that cutting off the hands of thieves (ala mid-east), or stoning adulterers, etc, has not caught on elsewhere............

I see what you say, but, with extremes such as this, I just don't see it spreading, to the rest of the "rational" world. Sure, it may well spread to Iran, Uzbekistan, Somalia, or even Trinidad/Tobago, but, really, I don't see it going anywhere, even if it does pass.

and, I'm not getting the German analogy.........

Might you mean "ask the Italians and French"? Seeing IIRC, they (well, Mussolini and the Vichy ) jumped in with Hitler willingly?

Or, perhaps, North Korea, taking China's lead?

Yes, I too doubt that it would "catch on" in more civilized societies, but don't forget that the religious right right here in the good ole USA are not only sponsoring him in Uganda, but have invited him to speak here at home. And that is offensive, to say the least.

JK

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:48 am

jkisha wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
jkisha wrote: I believe all the Sodomy laws in the US have been overturned except "Three states have yet to repeal anti-homosexual "conduct" laws: Oklahoma, Kansas[4] and Texas."

Here are the dates, specifics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law ... ted_States

RE: DNC involved with the family, not so much.

JK
I thought the supremes had essentially killed those laws with that case from Texas 6 or so years back.
You may be right, that Wiki article I posted was a bit hard for me to interpret, you might have better luck at it.

JK

Eric had it righter first. I just remember working Pride a couple of days after Lawrence v. Texas came down, and it just seemed extra festive and joyful that year.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:57 am

jkisha wrote: Yes, I too doubt that it would "catch on" in more civilized societies, but don't forget that the religious right right here in the good ole USA are not only sponsoring him in Uganda, but have invited him to speak here at home. And that is offensive, to say the least.

JK

yeah, there are certainly plenty of nuts here, across the religious and political spectrum. I guess, it's part of "freedom".
I don't agree with the Uganda thing. Period.
But, don't see "him" speaking here as any threat, to, anything. It's not going to change anyone's mind, IMHO. if you're for it, you already are, and vice versa.
Lots of despicable people, are invited to speak at a plethora of forums here.......and, things still seem to muddle along.

and, him speaking at a forum of any sort, will not change my mind, as relates to those attending said forum. If I don't agree with them, then, his being there does not change that.

I do, though, see it sad that so many are painted with the brush of the "extreme".......
There are good people on the right, and good people on the left.
In fact, I'd submit, the majority are.
But, the center is smeared by the fringes.
Same as Muslims, etc all being called for the actions of extremists.
it's either ok for all, or none, to be treated that way.
agree with them, or not.

(IMHO)

dr.placebo · Post by **dr.placebo** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:52 am

Leaving aside the party and church identifications, what would be the motivation for supporting this kind of law in Uganda? Is it just another instance where one group punishes another because they can? Or is it some kind of religious position, helping god to punish the wicked because god is not working on it fast enough?

Or maybe it's a test of strategy and tactics, like the way that weapons are tested on remote populations.

Any guesses?

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:08 pm

*chuckling*

yeah, 'cause Uganda sets the tone for most of the rest of the worlds social decisions..........

I'm not sure what you're chuckling about unless you're trying to be blatantly patronizing.

If you think about it who would have believed a little more than a decade ago that a relatively small group of extremists in an obscure part of the third world would give rise and heft to a movement that has since spread throughout the world under the banner of jihad.

Personally, I try not to forget that from small sparks do large fires grow. Uganda very much has the potential to incite the issue higher and further throughout Africa and beyond.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:14 pm

Badger wrote:
*chuckling*

yeah, 'cause Uganda sets the tone for most of the rest of the worlds social decisions..........
I'm not sure what you're chuckling about unless you're trying to be blatantly patronizing.

If you think about it who would have believed a little more than a decade ago that a relatively small group of extremists in an obscure part of the third world would give rise and heft to a movement that has since spread throughout the world under the banner of jihad.

Personally, I try not to forget that from small sparks do large fires grow. Uganda very much has the potential to incite the issue higher and further throughout Africa and beyond.

probably more sarcastic, due to my friendship with JK:

but, I don't agree that Uganda will set any sort of tone, for the world, in this.
IIRC, many mid-eastern nations do this, or things like it. It has not caught on (and, hopefully, never will)

Aberrations will always crop up somewhere.

We fight it, as we are.
But, to fear this sort of thing spreading, in any degree worldwide, to me, is not going to happen.

as stated (IMHO):

I'd submit, though, that cutting off the hands of thieves (ala mid-east), or stoning adulterers, etc, has not caught on elsewhere............

I see what you say, but, with extremes such as this, I just don't see it spreading, to the rest of the "rational" world. Sure, it may well spread to Iran, Uzbekistan, Somalia, or even Trinidad/Tobago, but, really, I don't see it going anywhere, even if it does pass.

dr.placebo · Post by **dr.placebo** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:43 pm

It may not be a slippery slope, in that Uganda is not exactly a fashion leader, but it is most certainly vile. If the "Family" is really involved, and I've now seen multiple reports that it is, then it is especially vile, causing suffering so casually and needlessly for the sake of a twisted pseudo-religious agenda.

Here and there · Post by **Here and there** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:46 pm

Here's another thought - why should anybody who isn't gay care about gay rights? When was the last time the gay community was to be found standing up for anybody who wasn't gay?

Why waste support on a worthless ally?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:00 pm

dr.placebo wrote:It may not be a slippery slope, in that Uganda is not exactly a fashion leader, but it is most certainly vile. If the "Family" is really involved, and I've now seen multiple reports that it is, then it is especially vile, causing suffering so casually and needlessly for the sake of a twisted pseudo-religious agenda.

he Doc.......we agree......yay!!!

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:02 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 8zhNb8ANe8

Here and there · Post by **Here and there** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:18 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

Oh, yeah. We need more people like this fruitcake.

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:22 pm

Here and there wrote:Here's another thought - why should anybody who isn't gay care about gay rights? When was the last time the gay community was to be found standing up for anybody who wasn't gay?

Why waste support on a worthless ally?

Maybe for the same reason I won't waste my time addressing your ridiculous comment.

JK

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:27 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

Here and there · Post by **Here and there** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:29 pm

jkisha wrote:
Here and there wrote:Here's another thought - why should anybody who isn't gay care about gay rights? When was the last time the gay community was to be found standing up for anybody who wasn't gay?

Why waste support on a worthless ally?
Maybe for the same reason I won't waste my time addressing your ridiculous comment.

Putting on display the very arrogance and self-absorption to which I was referring. Well done, and thank you for making my point for me.

gaminwench · Post by **gaminwench** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:38 pm

Why do white folks care about black folk's rights? Why do men support women's rights? Why do people who own homes care about the homeless?
It isn't about allies, it's about human compassion for other humans...

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:43 pm

Here's another thought...

Calling it a 'thought' is the height of Narcissistic hubris.

Seriously, you've only made a single point thus far.

One that obviates no further discussion given your obvious intellectual deficiency.

Simplistic mouth-breather that you are I find myself genuinely curious though as to how you were able to both type that hateful shit and sit upright at the same time without the use of your knuckles.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:46 pm

I keep my thesaurus by my side as well! shorty

Post by **Eric** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:51 pm

Here and there wrote:Here's another thought - why should anybody who isn't gay care about gay rights? When was the last time the gay community was to be found standing up for anybody who wasn't gay?

Why waste support on a worthless ally?

Yes, exactly.

I mean why should we care if people get killed, jailed for life or beaten up unless they've done something of value for us? We shouldn't raise a finger until each and every one of the gays has proven they've done something of value.

Just like you earned the right to stay out of jail and not be killed due to all the volunteer work & outreach you do. Right?

Here and there · Post by **Here and there** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:04 pm

gaminwench wrote:Why do white folks care about black folk's rights?

If black folks invariably failed to give a shit about anybody who wasn't black, that would be a very good question.

gaminwench wrote:Why do men support women's rights?

You tell me. Do women ever care about how men are treated?

gaminwench wrote:Why do people who own homes care about the homeless?

Nice try, honey. I've been homeless before. People with homes don't care about the homeless, and as far as that goes, the faggots are, by far, the worst of the bunch. They make Republicans look compassionate, by comparison.

gaminwench wrote:It isn't about allies, it's about human compassion for other humans...

No, it's about self-righteous stupidity in your case, about absolute, misplaced indignation that a group might see as little consideration from others as it has been showing to them, for decades, without getting called on it. Better late than never.

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:10 pm

Is Here and There a sock for Neon???!!! Note his location--"Nowhere I want to be" How sad, really. No wonder he has no compassion.

Plonk.

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:12 pm

Isotopia wrote:
Here's another thought...
Calling it a 'thought' is the height of Narcissistic hubris.

Seriously, you've only made a single point thus far.

One that obviates no further discussion given your obvious intellectual deficiency.

Simplistic mouth-breather that you are I find myself genuinely curious though as to how you were able to both type that hateful shit and sit upright at the same time without the use of your knuckles.

+10

JK

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:14 pm

No, it's about self-righteous stupidity...

I think you're confusing your rectal prolapse with having something cogent to say here.

I mean, shit is shit no matter what end it gets blown out of. After all, you've made that point remarkably well in a very short amount of time.

Don't worry though. I'm sure we'll be able to keep you in line. Most of us here know the drill. I wouldn't count on coming out on top.