"I don't support the war, but I do support the troops&q

[neon tetra]

For the record, yes, I am firmly in the group that can say proudly that I do not support the war

I have spent countless hours and days standing in protest of armed conflict.

. . .

but I do, with both word and deed, support the troops.

I also volunteer with two organizations that support our armed forces.

am·biv·a·lence
   /æmˈbɪvələns/
–noun
1.
uncertainty or fluctuation, esp. when caused by inability to make a choice or by a simultaneous desire to say or do two opposite or conflicting things.

Those activities are not mutually exclusive.

Actually, they are. I can say that I'm against rape, but if I work to support the rapists in their raping... then I'm not really against rape. It's the same thing.

The men and women of our armed forces have sworn to uphold and defend the constitution of their country.

There is not a single soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan that is "defending the Constitution" of the United States of America. Sorry, not one.

Where do you draw the line? A friend of mine, a young lady at the time, had just received her black belt when she was attacked by a would-be rapist with a knife (he had a long criminal record of such crimes). She killed him with one blow

Good for her, she did the right thing. It was self-defense in a life-or-death situation.

[Parasitoid]

you prevent it by being the solution.

you know..

one person at a time...

[littleflower]

you prevent it by being the solution.

you know..

one person at a time...

sigh .... wouldn't that be lovely ....

[littleflower]

[youtube][/youtube]

[The CO]

Playing bad music is one thing, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings is another.
Your analogy is as bad as your flawed 'logic'.

It's an analogy. It is not a direct comparison. I'm trying to provide a scenario in which another party can relate to a situation via an aoutside example. Logic does not enter into it.

If I storm into a bank with guns in each hand...
...magnetic ribbon on your car to "support" my killing?

Begging the meaningless straw man question -3

I can say that I'm against rape, but if I work to support the rapists in their raping... then I'm not really against rape. It's the same thing.

Syllogism, Excluded Middle, & Arguement from Adverse -3

Grand total -7

Nice chatting with you NT, cheers.

[Parasitoid]

What does "wouldn't that be lovely" mean?

[gyre]

Where do you draw the line? A friend of mine, a young lady at the time, had just received her black belt when she was attacked by a would-be rapist with a knife (he had a long criminal record of such crimes). She killed him with one blow and will pay for the rest of her life for having done so. Are you a murderer only if the people you kill are innocent? Or is anyone who kills guilty of murder?

Was she prosecuted?

[ZeroandOne]

[AntiM]

That's some pretty impressive thread drift there.

[Elderberry]

That's some pretty impressive thread drift there.

LOL A salute to the Navy?

JK

[Mojojita]

Where do you draw the line? A friend of mine, a young lady at the time, had just received her black belt when she was attacked by a would-be rapist with a knife (he had a long criminal record of such crimes). She killed him with one blow and will pay for the rest of her life for having done so. Are you a murderer only if the people you kill are innocent? Or is anyone who kills guilty of murder?

Was she prosecuted?

No criminal charges but whopping civil lawsuit brought by the asshat's family for wrongful death. Her family (parents) lost their home as a financial result of the litigation.

[gyre]

Unfortunate.
Rare for a criminal to win in a case of unarmed self defense.

My trainer has killed several armed attackers in unarmed defense with no issues.

I've been sued for self defense.
They were habitual criminals.
Settlement = zero ($0.00) zed.

I find not having liability coverage for such lawsuits affects the enthusiasm of the crooks.
I once waived my liability coverage when a drunk sued me after hitting me head on.
Their attorney dropped them in minutes.


If false guilt still bothers her, there are people she can talk to, that have been through this.
I'd be happy to help.

[Parasitoid]

I think that if you kill someone you have murdered them.

Sorry, but I don't think a well trained person accidentally kills an attacker. A skilled martial artist knows their own strength and enough about hand to hand conflict to disarm and disengage an attacker without killing them.

I am however sorry that it messed with her families resources.

[lucky420]

Well perhaps if she had only disengaged and disarmed the attacker he would be around to kill someone else

[ygmir]

I think that if you kill someone you have murdered them.

Sorry, but I don't think a well trained person accidentally kills an attacker. A skilled martial artist knows their own strength and enough about hand to hand conflict to disarm and disengage an attacker without killing them.

I am however sorry that it messed with her families resources.

Using that logic, and only that logic, I'd then submit:

"some folks need murderin'"........

jeeze, really, Parasitiod?

[gyre]

Sorry, but I don't think a well trained person accidentally kills an attacker. A skilled martial artist knows their own strength and enough about hand to hand conflict to disarm and disengage an attacker without killing them.

Based on what?
Film fantasy?

Feel free to try that approach.

[Parasitoid]

I don't disagree with any of those responses really.

Maybe I do live in a fantasy world where people protect themselves without murdering their attacker. Although I think that is more realistic than not. In my experience at least most physical conflicts don't end in one of the parties dying.

Maybe some folks really do need murderin'. I certainly wouldn't be the one to compare the values of individuals lives. I also wouldn't think less of someone who took a life. I know how situations can get out of hand.

People seem to get so offended over the idea of death, and of course especially death at the hands of another human. All I was really pointing out is that human inflicted death on another human, sometimes called homicide, can also be called murder. So if you kill someone, you are a murderer. Probably a tough pill for some to swallow but not really the end of the world at all.

[ygmir]

well, I can see that.
my only issue, with using the term "murder" is, (IMHO), it implies intent, and even pre-meditation, and malice. Which, is a little tougher.

Killing, or homicide, can imply a spontaneous act, and, one without malice.
something that "just happened".
or even, "needed doing, at the time".

[Parasitoid]

ya totally understandable. and sometimes semantics do matter.

Murder is definitely an inflammatory word.

[neon tetra]

"The sacrifice of brave men does not justify the pursuit of an unjust cause." ~ John le Carré

[Simon of the Playa]

[youtube][/youtube]

[DVD Burner]

Dont ask what I think!

[theCryptofishist]

One thing that I really hope we do for the people who have been fighting in Iraq and Afganistan is really go whole hog on GI Bill type things.
I have to wonder how events of the past 2 or 3 years might have played out if we had had vetrans of Vietnam and Gulf War 1 buying houses with the GI Bill, instead of through crooked banks. It may not have prevented the meltdown, but it might have kept us from falling so far. Having a solid middle class is a good investment in the prosperity of the country and not giving Vietnam and Gulf War vets GIBill benefits was almost certainly a huge mistake.

[Teo del Fuego]

I don't have the time and patience for this shit, so my comment may have already been said as I stopped reading around page two. The answer to NT's stupid question is that the soldiers don't make the policy to go to war or to keep it going. I'm confident 99% of them would rather be back stateside with their families. The people you should be railing against are the fundamentalist who use a warped brand of Islam to brainwash people into killing others in God's name...mostly innocent Muslims who happen to be in the crowded market that goes boom. If you are just intent on criticizing Americans, how about mentioning Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush, Dick Cheney. Or how about Sadam Hussein, or, god forbid, bin Laden? Or do they get a free pass?

Yeah, I'm curious as hell why there is no mention of the Taliban or Al Qaeda, both of which have killed more innocent citizens than the American military or coalition forces have.

If it weren't for Simon of the Playa's highly humorous battle with NT, I would plonck him or her.

[lucky420]

what about the warped brand of christianity and their wackadoodle fundamentalists? That is one reason that I am an atheist, to many people from all sides have been killed in the name of religion.

[The CO]

<wishes this thread had gone away, keeps wishing>

[Elderberry]

One thing that I really hope we do for the people who have been fighting in Iraq and Afganistan is really go whole hog on GI Bill type things.
I have to wonder how events of the past 2 or 3 years might have played out if we had had vetrans of Vietnam and Gulf War 1 buying houses with the GI Bill, instead of through crooked banks. It may not have prevented the meltdown, but it might have kept us from falling so far. Having a solid middle class is a good investment in the prosperity of the country and not giving Vietnam and Gulf War vets GIBill benefits was almost certainly a huge mistake.

The GI Bill didn't give money to veterans to buy their houses, it did the same thing that school loans did until Obama changed it...it merely guaranteed the loan to banks. I bought my first house with a VA Loan. (I am hoping my memory serves me correctly on this.)

JK

[AntiM]

One thing that I really hope we do for the people who have been fighting in Iraq and Afganistan is really go whole hog on GI Bill type things.
I have to wonder how events of the past 2 or 3 years might have played out if we had had vetrans of Vietnam and Gulf War 1 buying houses with the GI Bill, instead of through crooked banks. It may not have prevented the meltdown, but it might have kept us from falling so far. Having a solid middle class is a good investment in the prosperity of the country and not giving Vietnam and Gulf War vets GIBill benefits was almost certainly a huge mistake.

The GI Bill didn't give money to veterans to buy their houses, it did the same thing that school loans did until Obama changed it...it merely guaranteed the loan to banks. I bought my first house with a VA Loan. (I am hoping my memory serves me correctly on this.)

JK

Yep, although the current GI Bill is better than the POS I had when I got out. We used Larry's VA for this house, if we ever sell it to a non-VA owner, we can use mine. We can refi as often as we like to another VA loan. No down payment is the big draw, and decent rates.

[theCryptofishist]

But still better than from the banks, yes?

[geospyder]

Never thought I'd post in this thread but here I am...

I got out in '64 and used my GI bill for my first house and it also helped pay for two degrees. I'm happy.