How long have men walked the Earth?

All things outside of Burning Man.

How long have men walked the Earth?

7,000 years
2
2%
7,000 years
2
2%
7,000,000 years
7
5%
7,000,000 years
7
5%
7 days
2
2%
7 days
2
2%
Too fucking long!
5
4%
Too fucking long!
5
4%
Not as long as cockroaches.
21
16%
Not as long as cockroaches.
21
16%
Who cares, let's party
12
9%
Who cares, let's party
12
9%
Zero, We only exist in the mind of the Cosmos.
11
8%
Zero, We only exist in the mind of the Cosmos.
11
8%
Only God knows. (It's a mystery)
6
5%
Only God knows. (It's a mystery)
6
5%
 
Total votes: 132

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Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:10 pm

Eric wrote:Geekster's also completely right on the sea levels- we may never know when modern humans arrived in the America's since so many sites have been covered by the sea.
If "the beachcomber" hypothesis is right, we have that problem globally. Even with "Alvin" type remote operated submarines, we're going to have a steep learning curve.
And Eric, you put me to shame. I've become lazy and don't pursue knowledge the way you do.
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Post by ygmir » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:21 pm

Eric wrote:If evidence cannot be proven wrong, it's not science. Scientific theories live & die by the fact that they can be proven wrong, not that they appear to be completely right. Creationism is not science because there is no way to prove it wrong- how do you show that a "Creator" didn't make something? With evolution you just need to find a mammal where there couldn't be one- like before the Carboniferous period (or any of thousands of variations on this, none of which has ever happened)

Most theories hold that modern humans came from Africa, but there are other theories out there. I tend to go with a combination of studying and my own gut intuitions for my beliefs on the matter (which I would most definitely not claim as anything other than pure speculation) and for me the evidence of modern humans originating in Africa is still the strongest.

I never close my mind off to being proven wrong. Techniques and knowledge are growing at a ridiculous pace, there is no way to know what's around the corner. It's one of the reasons I subscribe to science & archaeology magazines and read so many websites about them- I love finding this stuff out.

Geekster's also completely right on the sea levels- we may never know when modern humans arrived in the America's since so many sites have been covered by the sea.
have you ever looked into the "Bock Saga"?
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Post by Eric » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:59 pm

ygmir wrote:have you ever looked into the "Bock Saga"?
"heard of"- yes.

"looked into"- no.

No mainstream archaeologist that I've heard of takes it as true, including any official Finnish recognition for his theories.

I'm not a believer in "alternate" theories- anything that can't stand up to peer review isn't real science in my opinion. A theory that is provable, no matter how extreme, is one that doesn't have to be "protected" from real science. This is also why I don't believe in Atlantis; Lemuria; white-people-came-from-the-America's-not-Africa, and Ancient Aliens. I really hate Ancient Alien theories because they imply that humans were too stupid to create cool stuff on our own.

Evolution was (and is) mocked, but it has stood up to rigorous testing. Humans evolving in Africa & expanding from there has stood up to rigorous testing (so far)- none of the alternate theories have.

I try to avoid the discussions when they go off onto "alternate" theories because it's not my issue what people believe. I tend to be mostly an Empiricist when it comes to science (granted, I do go with my instincts when reading competing ideas about things like punctuated equilibrium vs. gradualism), and I've yet to find an alternate theory that holds up to scientific study IMHO.

edit: clarify a sentence
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Post by ^Rhino! » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:33 pm

[quote="theCryptofishist"]can't--I dunno, it looks like the "let's claim it for the home team" thing that goes on and on in anthropology. And based on pretty weak evidence. And it's really hard to pit a few teeth against the fact that Africans show more genetic variety than the whole rest of the world combined.

And Rhino--so you don't favor the Black Sea hypothesis?[/quote]"

I didn't say that. I only said that the Miocene was probably the last time the Mediterranean was a desert. The ascent of man happened in the Pleistocene, which occurred later in the geologic record.

I know a little about about the Miocene. There's a genera of rhinoceros, Teloceros, which appeared in the Oligiocene and is represented in the fossils at two sites I know of. One is at Ashfall Fossil Beds State Park in Nebraska, and the other is near Gray, Tennessee. A friend of mine was involved in the discovery of the latter site.
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Post by ygmir » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:59 pm

Eric wrote:
ygmir wrote:have you ever looked into the "Bock Saga"?
"heard of"- yes.

"looked into"- no.

No mainstream archaeologist that I've heard of takes it as true, including any official Finnish recognition for his theories.

I'm not a believer in "alternate" theories- anything that can't stand up to peer review isn't real science in my opinion. A theory that is provable, no matter how extreme, is one that doesn't have to be "protected" from real science. This is also why I don't believe in Atlantis; Lemuria; white-people-came-from-the-America's-not-Africa, and Ancient Aliens. I really hate Ancient Alien theories because they imply that humans were too stupid to create cool stuff on our own.

Evolution was (and is) mocked, but it has stood up to rigorous testing. Humans evolving in Africa & expanding from there has stood up to rigorous testing (so far)- none of the alternate theories have.

I try to avoid the discussions when they go off onto "alternate" theories because it's not my issue what people believe. I tend to be mostly an Empiricist when it comes to science (granted, I do go with my instincts when reading competing ideas about things like punctuated equilibrium vs. gradualism), and I've yet to find an alternate theory that holds up to scientific study IMHO.

edit: clarify a sentence
I guess, I like'em all........I like the mind wandering, of the improbable, and, enjoy the "hard and fast" facts, of the provable.
To me, they're all possible, until proven otherwise.....even a "preponderance" of evidence, at times, is not enough.
History is dotted with the "impossible or improbable" that ended up being true.

it's all fun for me.
It will never, really matter, in my day to day life if Triceratops was warm blooded, or liked Dub-step.
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Post by Eric » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:13 pm

ygmir wrote:I guess, I like'em all........I like the mind wandering, of the improbable, and, enjoy the "hard and fast" facts, of the provable.
I enjoy "alternate history" as fiction and have had my mind sparked by some great ideas in them. I'm just one of those oddballs who thinks the world-as-it-is is filled with so much that's fascinating and wonderful that I don't need to create alternates to it.

I do, however, fall easily for a cute picture of chimps:

Image
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Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:18 pm

The real question involves how long fish have rolled on the earth.

A little less than 3.5 years.
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Post by FIGJAM » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:16 pm

Undoughtedly a higher life form. :wink:
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Post by Eric » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:55 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:The real question involves how long fish have rolled on the earth.

A little less than 3.5 years.
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Post by can't sit still » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:55 am

I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.

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Post by ygmir » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:02 am

I think, there's a lot to that.
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:49 am

Ygmir, you've been suckered...


check into who runs ArticleSafari.com


CSS....you are so full of shit i can smell your revisionist breath thru the screen...


please dont insult us anymore with links from sources such as these.
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:50 am

CSS...Crap Science Spreader.
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Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:20 am

Wha..? Simon? How could you not believe in DNA evidence of Atlantis? Aren't sea monkeys pretty much proven to have devolved from humans trapped on Atlantis after it sank?
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:33 am

yes, how could i?

i believe in the book of mormon too.





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Post by ygmir » Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:51 pm

how could the golden tablets lie?
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Post by BAS » Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:53 pm

Wait a minute! REAL men don't WALK-- they DRIVE!



[youtube][/youtube]

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Post by Eric » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:01 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:Ygmir, you've been suckered...


check into who runs ArticleSafari.com


CSS....you are so full of shit i can smell your revisionist breath thru the screen...


please dont insult us anymore with links from sources such as these.
Um.
CSS is right on the Denisovian:

Nature
The abstract is about half way down the page. This is a peer-reviewed journal.

Other mentions in the "legitimate" press:

Washington Post

NY Times

The Guardian

BBC Online

There are lots more, I just got tired of cutting & pasting links.

Now, personally, I had questions about the viability of two species that had been separated for several hundred thousand years being able to interbreed and create fertile offspring, but I did research into that and was proven wrong. This is a good site about that:
Interbreeding between species
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:07 pm

so i guess the lesson learned here is even crappy sites can have good info.


and visa versa.


i take it back CSS, i apologize, i was doing the whole fellow traveler thing, and was obviously wrong to do so.


i still wont go back to articlesafari.com though.
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Post by can't sit still » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:55 pm

Simon, Eric, I have no skin in the game. I don't care where man came from. I post a lot of material. It would be better if I ran down every single source. I don't. I know that all of you are capable of critical thinking. Look at the global cooling thread. Some of the info has to be inaccurate. When I post, I try not to post from a "pedestal".
Somebody started a thread about Starbucks and Larry Harvey. In his second post, he confessed that he was a moron. I don't see it that way. No one is infallible so, inaccuracies occur. I process a lot of info and I don't expect to be perfect.
Life goes on.
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Post by Eric » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:42 pm

can't sit still wrote:I post a lot of material. It would be better if I ran down every single source. I don't. I know that all of you are capable of critical thinking. Look at the global cooling thread. Some of the info has to be inaccurate. When I post, I try not to post from a "pedestal".
When you spend most of your time on the board starting & responding to "intellectual" threads and then claim you don't hold any position it completely undercuts any reason for your posts to exist. Saying that you don't run "down every single source" and that you expect us to do it smacks of intellectual laziness. I expected more from you.

Every good scientist or intellectual starts with a series of ideas they believe are true and tests them. Just posting anything that looks like it might have something to do with the subject but you have no idea because you didn't bother to look into it makes all your posts worthless to me.

Why should we bother to read them if you don't?

FYI- this is not a personal attack. I've never had a problem with CSS. I just don't understand why we're supposed to look into what he's posting if he doesn't.
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:56 am

[quote]but you have no idea because you didn't bother to look into it makes all your posts worthless to me. [/quote]


+1,000,000



eric, i promised a friend that if i ever decided to swing both ways i was to call him first.

well, after that post, i think will call him second...

whats yer phone number...
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Post by can't sit still » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:05 pm

Eric, If I am sure of 99.8 % of what I post, this is less than ALL.
There is a post on "winter" about debtors prisons making a comeback. It is fraudulent. There is also a post on "Winter" where I meant to say billion instead of million regarding 401 Ks.
Here are some threads where I posted a lot;

The Long Cold Winter,,, 42 pages
Free energy,,,11 pages
Screw the banks,,,35 pages
Global cooling,,, 29 pages
Fading democracy,,,7
Stock market and screw the banks,,40
Survival,,,23
Fuel efficient,,, 22 pages
Immigration,,,10
Cancer remedies
Solar and wind advances
Obviously, I left out the IJJZ thread.

You're more than welcome to go through 150 pages with tons of links and tons of technical info. You can illuminate and correct all my inaccuracies. Then you can "score" me percentage-wise. THEN, you can call me intellectually lazy.
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Post by Box Burner » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:24 pm

what was I sayin'?
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης

.

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Post by Box Burner » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:29 pm

Damn I haven't slept in way too long.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης

.

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Post by Eric » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:04 pm

CSS- sorry, off the board for two days.

I read your first post as saying "I just post stuff, I don't read it".

From your follow up I think you're saying that you post stuff you read that you think is interesting or relevant to the thread, but leave it up to the reader to decide if we want to agree with it.

I.e.: you're not arguing the "truth" of what you post, that's our choice. You see it as adding more information for people to use in judging.

Is that correct? Or close?

If so, it would basically make my follow-up response wrong (the "I expected more from you" part was dismay at the idea that you were posting without reading)
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Post by can't sit still » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:40 pm

Eric, in summer of 2005, I encountered info on gold bug sites that led me to believe that the West was in for a crash. Since then, I've been reading 40 hrs a week, on average. I touch on several subjects. As a matter of survival, I spend a lot of time on the worldwide economic picture. You can imagine that when one reads technical sites like this;
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1289503232.php
one has to absorb and correlate? / integrate a huge amount of info.

There is the additional problem of GOV disinformation and the usual net bullshit. Some of the stuff that I post is strictly from memory. It doesn't exist on the net. If you watch the global cooling thread, I rarely venture outside of [generally] accepted sources. Same for the cancer thread. In most of my posts, I try to keep opinion and speculation to a minimum. Y'all can speculate for yourselves just what the outcome may be. MSM specializes in regurgitated news where the outcome is given to you already wrapped up.

As you can imagine, 5 years @ 40 hrs a week is a lot of info to digest and recall. I take a lot of nutrients. Two of these are acetyl-L-carnitine and Cognitex. They are especially good for the memory and cognitive function. For some reason, they also doubled my reaction speed.
Much of the info relative to the economic picture is fragmented. I try to post a complete picture of a given "node". If I find it difficult to integrate a given set of data, I'm sure that others do to. An economic picture isn't very useful if a person can't project at least a little bit into the future. I do speculate on the "winter" thread.

I've always been an amateur student of anthropology. Prehistoric history is such a speculative subject that, I'm not a real stickler for accuracy. The cancer thread,,, I am.

The Burning Man festival shows the extreme creativity of many burners. I hope to add something of interest on the E-Playa for all those creative people. The "bar" thread is warm and cozy but, it has a pretty limited scope. Everybody needs some stimulation.

There are very few absolutes in life and I don't expect anyone to be infallible. One has to take a plausible piece of info and file it away as a reference.... always subject to revision. A reference, not necessarily a fact. This "file" is always subject to revision and rarely held as an absolute fact.

Much of what I post is the opinion or conclusion of someone else. I try to quote knowledgeable sources,, not idiots. The conclusion is implicitly left up to the reader.

I realize that the IJJZ thread is particularly "troublesome" . The problem is not going to go away. The weapons are fecundity and the sword. How can there be a reasonable solution? The ever-increasing encroachment of the palestinians is causing an ever-increasing resentment from the israelis;
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 10,00.html
The Wahhabbists are supporting one side and America is supporting the other. These are powerful interests and we can't afford to ignore the situation.

The israeli state brought in millions? of settlers. William of Orange did the same thing in Ireland. Centuries of strife is / was the result. The thread may be upsetting and one-sided but, can we just ignore the situation? Turkey is 97% muslim and has a hundred nukes. That can't be ignored.
I seem to have drifted :?
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Post by gyre » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:33 pm

Not all geology is vague.
Cumulative bits of prosaic information can make some things very precise, and easily too.

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Post by Box Burner » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:56 pm

CSS -

FWIW - I stumbled into similar information about The banks and gold 35 years ago. I cannot even begin to give you references on what I have read. I read a lot at first, but now just pay attention to what I run into. My conclusions have been confirmed by what you have posted here. (no surprise there.) Every few years there has been a crisis that was mostly covered over and little noticed outside of GOV, Banks and Wall Street. Recent one that comes to mind is the crash of the Asian market (Taiwan? I think.). That one got some press coverage but was overshadowed by more spetacular events. It was papered over and shored up much the same as this one is being done by GOV, Banks and Wall Street. And so has it been done every time. Because the problem was not addressed and fixed each following crisis has been worse. The "events" have come closer and closer together with each one being bigger than the last and more conspicuous. Ever greater amounts of smoke and mirrors have been needed to marche the elphant off the stage. In reality it is all one continuing crisis and it has now reached critical mass. The elephant will no longer fit through the stage door. I believe that this time, the amount of smoke and mirrors needed to cover it up, the fix for the problem, and the disaster that will occur if it is not fixed are very rapidly approaching equal status.

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Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης

.

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Post by Box Burner » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:59 pm

and on topic... I still believe that man has been blasted back to the stone age more than once. this time however we might do it to ourselves.
Dance in the heart of chaos. . . . .

ὁ δὲ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Σωκράτης

.

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