Are electronic devices destroying our society?

[Simon of the Playa]

[youtube][/youtube]

[theCryptofishist]

oh i don't know. i love the rustle of the paper and the ink on my fingers. really, i do!

i've tried using an e-reader for books too. Doesn't do it for me. Reading is a ritual, a comfy chair, a lamp, hot tea/coffee, and flipping pages. love it love it love it. and sorry mom, but i still LOVE to dog ear the pages, and highlight/clip passages that stand out to me. books are cherished possessions.

You can do all of that on an iPad or a Kindle or a Nook. Even better, because you can notate your dog-ears, the pages give the illusion of flipping and can actually make the sound too, if you like; and you can search your highlights and notes. Now couple that with your comfy chair, lamp and hot tea/coffee and you're in the 21st century! :)

JK

Yeah, but in case of the Kindle, you're also in 1984--or, in some cases, not.
I don't like the idea of Amazon having that much control over what I'm reading. And I hear it's crap with pictures.

[Sham]

I never thought of that fishy. Kindle will know all the books that you read, and will recommend only the type of book that you may want. If you read radical type books, they and the authorities may eventually know and have lists. Recommended books may be intended to help mainstream your unsocial thinking. (is this where the thought police come in?) Imagine having a lists of books that a defendent had read, being used in court, to bolster the prosecutions case? Eventually, big brother will be looking at what we all read, and books can be digitally banned. With the push of a button, entire "virtual printings" of digital books may be erased from circulation.

Why, right here now, as soon as I hit my "submit button", this posting can be seen by anyone in the entire world. It can be digitally traced back to me, and by the time the sun comes up, the authorities can be knocking on my door.

[Eric]

With a kindle you lose your connection with the book; the feel of it in your hands, the perfume of the paper, the cracks and imperfections when you re-read a book that you've read annually for years. I've been reading forever, I worked in bookstores for over a decade and can still spend hours in one looking for the right thing to consume me.

I only go online to look for a book if I'm trying to get a title right, then I go to a local brick and mortar store & buy it.

Someday I might have an iPad or Kindle, but I'll still be carrying my books separately, as a physical book, and then they'll join my shelves of books lining my hallway.

To quote John Waters: "We need to make books cool again. If you go home with somebody and they don't have books, don't fuck them."

[Elderberry]

Books are becoming a generational thing, something only your grandparents have. You enjoy the feel of real books now because that's what you grew up with. Once text books become totally electronic, the only place people will find real books will be in the library, which will then be called the book museum. Because the kids will never have experienced a paper book and will find them clumsy and difficult to use compared to the electronic books they were weaned on.

JK

[AntiM]

I never thought of that fishy. Kindle will know all the books that you read, and will recommend only the type of book that you may want. If you read radical type books, they and the authorities may eventually know and have lists. Recommended books may be intended to help mainstream your unsocial thinking. (is this where the thought police come in?) Imagine having a lists of books that a defendent had read, being used in court, to bolster the prosecutions case? Eventually, big brother will be looking at what we all read, and books can be digitally banned. With the push of a button, entire "virtual printings" of digital books may be erased from circulation.

Why, right here now, as soon as I hit my "submit button", this posting can be seen by anyone in the entire world. It can be digitally traced back to me, and by the time the sun comes up, the authorities can be knocking on my door.

I have books which I am sure the authorities frown upon. Heck, my original username is from a Hayduke Revenge book.

[theCryptofishist]

I only go online to look for a book if I'm trying to get a title right, then I go to a local brick and mortar store & buy it.

Someday I might have an iPad or Kindle, but I'll still be carrying my books separately, as a physical book, and then they'll join my shelves of books lining my hallway.

To quote John Waters: "We need to make books cool again. If you go home with somebody and they don't have books, don't fuck them."

Three statements that get "Fin Up" from me.

[theCryptofishist]

(is this where the thought police come in?)

No, Amazon apparently was selling Kindle books that they didn't have the rights to to people and when they found out they did a massive auto-delete without telling the customers. One of the books was 1984.

[Rabbi Dali Rick]

We live in a microwave world, we want it, we want it right now, and we want it free. Not only books, but apparently salvation has been lumped into the digital desires. In the old days we were stalled in time to stay and watch the media's drivel, with "news at eleven". Now when they say "coming up, next." I hit the Internet for instant gratification...


the rebbi

[Elderberry]

(is this where the thought police come in?)

No, Amazon apparently was selling Kindle books that they didn't have the rights to to people and when they found out they did a massive auto-delete without telling the customers. One of the books was 1984.

Yes, and the public outcry was so great that they vowed to never do that again!

JK

[Elderberry]

JK

[lucky.bastard]

based on the results of my study...or should I say my 13 year old daughter's bed room, the future will still have avid readers who love books. she has stacks and stacks of books all over her room, piled high beside her bed, all over the place ( including her christmas list )

my brother-in-law has one of those fancy electronic-reader-thing-a-ma-bobs, but he gets turned on by technology not books... so his trip will be like "look at all the books i can down load", not "you gotta read this book i just read"..

[Eric]

JK- You're free to be in love with your technology, I am free to be in love with my physical books.

In many ways my books are superior to your Kindle- I can buy used books for a fraction of the cost of a new one; I don't have to worry about my hard-drive being wiped out & taking everything with it (unless my house burns down, which happens less than computer failures); there's no worries about the format my books are in becoming unreadable by later devices (like many of my floppy disks from the 90's are); a company can't decide to come into my house & remove a book they sold me (the "1984" scenario); its very simple to make what I buy untraceable to the government if I'm feeling paranoid (I'm not); I don't have to worry about splashing water or getting dust into my reference books near my jewelry bench........

To steal from Charlton Heston: you'll have to pry my books from my cold dead hands.

[gyre]

The net has little to do with the death of news and journalism.
The budgets have been gutted for many years by for profit management.
The FCC allowed monopolies and news for entertainment and profit.
The public let it happen.

Most people have never even seen a good quality newspaper.
Network news is a shadow of what it was.
They usually just repost local news now.

CL and the net are just exposing what is already gone.

There are some books about this, by the way.
Compare even television news from the sixties to the empty city rooms in newspapers now.
Everyone isn't out on a story.
It's just an empty shell.

There are still a few good newspapers, but I don't think most people are aware enough to appreciate them.

[theCryptofishist]

Books are becoming a generational thing, something only your grandparents have. You enjoy the feel of real books now because that's what you grew up with. Once text books become totally electronic, the only place people will find real books will be in the library, which will then be called the book museum. Because the kids will never have experienced a paper book and will find them clumsy and difficult to use compared to the electronic books they were weaned on.

Actually, there will be very expensive and beautiful works of art that are books. I mean gorgeous paper--rag, not pulp--perhaps hand printed, small runs and numbered...
Coloring books. Notebooks/diaries/sketchbooks, maybe books that you cut apart and put together as the taj mahal.
and some kids will love books anyway. And a lot of the books already printed will be around for decades to come.

[Elderberry]

Books are becoming a generational thing, something only your grandparents have. You enjoy the feel of real books now because that's what you grew up with. Once text books become totally electronic, the only place people will find real books will be in the library, which will then be called the book museum. Because the kids will never have experienced a paper book and will find them clumsy and difficult to use compared to the electronic books they were weaned on.

Actually, there will be very expensive and beautiful works of art that are books. I mean gorgeous paper--rag, not pulp--perhaps hand printed, small runs and numbered...
Coloring books. Notebooks/diaries/sketchbooks, maybe books that you cut apart and put together as the taj mahal.
and some kids will love books anyway. And a lot of the books already printed will be around for decades to come.

Very true.

JK

[TomServo]

oh i don't know. i love the rustle of the paper and the ink on my fingers. really, i do!

That just means the lazy assed press operators weren't using their densitometer. Or, they're using shitty ink.

[gyre]

Soy ink.
Very poor.
Very gray.

[Sham]

Ponder the idea of development creativity for a moment. Before the VCR and the various video games. Kids actually interacted with each other. Now, play dates with kids involve them sitting in front of a TV and playing Xbox with each other. It's not bad, but very different than a generation ago, when children met up outside, they made up games to play. Now it appears that there needs to be constant entertainment and outside stimulation to keep the young 'uns occupied. For anyone under 30, this is not how things were just a short time ago.

I was amazed when car companies started installing video screens in the back seats of cars. Imagine pulling the kids away from the V to go for a scenic ride, and then sticking them in front of a TV in the car. Can they get away from Barney for a freakin' hour, and see the world around them? This just can't be good for a child's brains!

The main point I hope I'm making here, is that there is no feelings of accomplishment or creativity with the total influx of entertaining electronics. The "I made this" feeling is foreign to the young kids, and it's been replaced with desperately trying to keep them entertained and quiet. Turn the TV on, pop in a video and don't bother mom.

[Elderberry]

Ponder the idea of development creativity for a moment. Before the VCR and the various video games. Kids actually interacted with each other. Now, play dates with kids involve them sitting in front of a TV and playing Xbox with each other. It's not bad, but very different than a generation ago, when children met up outside, they made up games to play. Now it appears that there needs to be constant entertainment and outside stimulation to keep the young 'uns occupied. For anyone under 30, this is not how things were just a short time ago.

I was amazed when car companies started installing video screens in the back seats of cars. Imagine pulling the kids away from the V to go for a scenic ride, and then sticking them in front of a TV in the car. Can they get away from Barney for a freakin' hour, and see the world around them? This just can't be good for a child's brains!

The main point I hope I'm making here, is that there is no feelings of accomplishment or creativity with the total influx of entertaining electronics. The "I made this" feeling is foreign to the young kids, and it's been replaced with desperately trying to keep them entertained and quiet. Turn the TV on, pop in a video and don't bother mom.

These devices were put into cars to appeal to lazy parents who have already abdicated their responsibility for child raising in the home to TV and video games. You can't blame the technology.

JK

[Rabbi Dali Rick]

It's Mind Control. We are raising a bunch of Manchurian Candidates...



It was so cool! It was like being in the video game "Black Ops", Special Mission disk, at full Rez, only realer...



the rebbi

[Elderberry]

JK- You're free to be in love with your technology, I am free to be in love with my physical books.

In many ways my books are superior to your Kindle- I can buy used books for a fraction of the cost of a new one; I don't have to worry about my hard-drive being wiped out & taking everything with it (unless my house burns down, which happens less than computer failures); there's no worries about the format my books are in becoming unreadable by later devices (like many of my floppy disks from the 90's are); a company can't decide to come into my house & remove a book they sold me (the "1984" scenario); its very simple to make what I buy untraceable to the government if I'm feeling paranoid (I'm not); I don't have to worry about splashing water or getting dust into my reference books near my jewelry bench........

To steal from Charlton Heston: you'll have to pry my books from my cold dead hands.

Actually Eric, I'm not putting down print books per se. But personally, for whatever reason I do not know, I stopped reading everything except for work related tech books. However when the Kindle app became available for my phone, it got me hooked back on reading. I could be watching someone on TV that I liked and then heard a plug for their latest book. I could immediately buy and download it.

Additionally, I can carry all my books with me where ever I go. Whether it be my phone, my iPad or my computer. So any time I want to reference a book I've read, or more importantly, if I'm waiting in somebody's lobby for an appointment, I can just pull out my phone and continue reading, exactly where I left off.

So, for me, the technology has been a great help...almost a reenlightenment to reading with many other benefits, which include space saving because I don't have the shelf space to keep tons of books. I have even started getting all my tech books electronically. There always in my pocket when I need them.

JK

[theCryptofishist]

Speaking of which, my cell phone company is offering me a smart phone (free, but pricier plan) and I'm not finding any particularly compelling reason to accept.

[theCryptofishist]

(is this where the thought police come in?)

No, Amazon apparently was selling Kindle books that they didn't have the rights to to people and when they found out they did a massive auto-delete without telling the customers. One of the books was 1984.

Yes, and the public outcry was so great that they vowed to never do that again!

JK

Yeah, and how many times has Facebook promised to respect their users' privacy and then somehow didn't realize that this new set of circumstances was a violation of their privacy? I'm not saying Amazon is Facebook, but this is a very much proof is in the pudding sort of promise. Some of us are going to have to see them to the right thing more than once to really believe that Amazon "gets it."

[JStep]

The newspaper is going the way of the dodo, not because of the net, but through an outmoded business model that was starting to wither and die before the internet came along. The average newspaper today is over 75% advertising, a huge increase since their start. To further increase profits the papers have taken to reducing their "publishing" to simply reproducing syndicated filler.

From Stauber and Rampton's "Toxic Sludge is Good for You":

"News giants have been carrying out "bottom line journalism" for decades. A major corporation buys up a small or medium sized newspaper, promising no threat to local editorial policy. But as they slowly tighten restrictions, lower pay, and increase workloads, the old editorial staff leave and are replaced by those experienced at taking stories from national press syndicates. Those who produce syndicated stories often find that if they write in ways favorable to corporations, they receive speaking invitations which pay thousands of dollars. Thus, canned PR plugs replace local, in-depth reporting. Currently, ". . . the 150,000 PR practitioners in the US outnumber the country's 130,000 reporters." (p. 2)

[Elderberry]

Speaking of which, my cell phone company is offering me a smart phone (free, but pricier plan) and I'm not finding any particularly compelling reason to accept.

What carrier and what phone?

JK

[Sham]

These devices were put into cars to appeal to lazy parents who have already abdicated their responsibility for child raising in the home to TV and video games. You can't blame the technology.

We lost our power yesterday due to a huge snowstorm in the northeast. The neighbor across the street was at wits end because his two daughters, ages 3 and 5 were not able to watch videos or play computer games for 4 whole hours. His eyes were crazy and his head was vibrating in some weird manner that's hard to describe, as he was telling me.
He decided that he is going to put in a back-up generator in the house, so this never happens again. He will be spending $5000 to insure that he doesn't have to actually interact with his own children, should they lose power again. I wanted to suggest some sort of arts & crafts project, where the kids could actually create something that could be proud of, instead of staring at the TV like two zombies---but it wasn't my place.

[theCryptofishist]

Yeah, but if you had shown up with some markers, paper and pipecleaners, you'd've been a hero. Sometimes it's all in the presentation.

And some thing that uses the google platform. Is that "droid." Maybe that's not what I'm looking for.

[Rabbi Dali Rick]

I have to agree, J Step, I check the AP Headlines and Breaking News first, and as I check the big 10 ( NYT, LAT, ect.) they all have the exact same story, absolutely no change. I do not see one original story any where on any paper. I only noticed this because the Internet is my main source for the news now, and I start on the Drudge page because it has links to all the major media players at the bottom of it's page. What do people pay a subscription for, I don't understand? You can get almost 99% of the news for free so why pay?


the rebbi

[Rabbi Dali Rick]

NEW MEDIA IS NOT NEWS.

NEWS = HIGHLIGHT, COPY, PASTE...



the rebbi