Logistical questions for a group attending their first BM...

Brittus · Post by **Brittus** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:34 am

Hello,

There is a reasonable chance that all things being equal, a group of up to 14 of us will attempt to sort ourselves out and attend this year's Burning Man. It looks absolutely awesome, and being a 'right brain' type guy, I've been looking at the logistical side of things having read the BM website, and would love to tap the collective wisdom from previous BM'ers.

It's worth mentioning that we're all in the UK; nothing like making things extra complicated to test people's organisational skills ;)

Transport:

I imagine needing something like a 22' truck; purely for transportation of everything we'll need to keep 14 people alive on the Playa, and ensure we take everything away with us.

Is this a sensible way of doing things? I'm really not thinking RVs would be suitable; huge, expensive, and we'd need 2 of them at least.

Water

Going by the calculations I've seen floating about the 'net, it appears you need 1.5 gallons of water per person, per day. For the duration of the BM festival, that's 7 days or 147 gallons. Add a 50% reserve on (to deal with silly events, natural evaporation, or whatever) and we're at a bit over 220 gallons. That is getting on for nearly a metric tonne of water and could be stored either as 22 x 10 gallon bottles or 1 x 3000ltr portable (certainly truck mountable)

And then we've got waste water to deal with. Naturally I'm not expecting 220 gallons of it, but nevertheless it needs to be stored. So a 2,000ltr portable unit (again, truck mountable) is what I'm thinking.

Shelter

The truck will not be used for shelter unless the winds get so harsh/fast that we need to seek temporary respite there; instead I'm planning on tents - or more specifically, yurts. Two should do. Obviously the desert winds are likely to be unkind and not stick to a specific direction, but I guess we would attempt to place the yurts on the leeward side of the truck?

Or do we park the truck somewhere and then have to transport everything to a different location for setting up?

Food

The easiest to manage, I don't suppose there's any online authoritative list of BM tried and tested menus/recipes are there? ;)

Power

I'm planning on us having small scale power generation capabilities; there are various low impact generators available and I guess allowing for a daily running time of 4 hours (max) would be ample.

If anything I've written suddenly screams 'IDIOT!' please do shout; the idea of living in cramped conditions, sharing with others on a fixed diet with very limited resources is not utterly foreign - its not vastly different from being at sea.

Cheers!

Brittus

Post by **AntiM** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:46 am

Howdy. Many of the answers you need are already here. Finding them is the fun part.

Trucks are a viable solution.

Food: there are a lot of food threads in this forum, also a playa cooking tribe over on Tribe.net. Tons of good advice. You'll want to concentrate on the kitchen, health and sanitation, cooking duty, communal meals or DIY, icing the coolers, clean up, and how not to let one person get stuck with doing everything. The decide which foods will be of most use to your group. Also, how to handle individual dietary needs.

You camp next to your truck.

Water: read up on evap pond threads, one way to haul out less than you haul in. You must educate every member of the group on greywater issues. Will you be building a shower?
I suggest a variety of water storage units/types, in case one gets contaminated, you have a back up. Also, a few small containers (one gal, 2.5 gal) will be extremely handy in camp for daily access.

There are generator threads, including info on baffle boxes, usage, fuel transport and storage.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:32 am

May I suggest an advance party, getting there a couple of days early, to do the heavy shopping? When the rest of the party gets in, you can let them get the extras that are pertinent to themselves. From two or three carefully selected stores. That way, most of you are on their way to the playa the same day they touch down and you're not mutually herding cats.
I have to say that going by your post, you have a lot of the basics down. With time to prepare you're going to be able to make people's jaws drop when you tell them you're first timers.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:03 am

theCryptofishist wrote:May I suggest an advance party, getting there a couple of days early, to do the heavy shopping? When the rest of the party gets in, you can let them get the extras that are pertinent to themselves. From two or three carefully selected stores. That way, most of you are on their way to the playa the same day they touch down and you're not mutually herding cats.
I have to say that going by your post, you have a lot of the basics down. With time to prepare you're going to be able to make people's jaws drop when you tell them you're first timers.

winner

Brittus · Post by **Brittus** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:45 am

@thecryptofishist

An advance party is definitely something we'll do; two or three of us will go over the week before and grab the transport, tents, food, water, and whatnot - with everyone else landing the night before the gates open, but briefed to ensure they have all the bits and bobs not provided by the planning team.

It's been many years since I was last in the USA and I've never been to Nevada before... that combined with what I'm seeing online about 2010's BM makes me think that this could actually rock rather hard :)

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:01 pm

Shelter: If you get a box truck, you should be able to haul everything you need. The winds blow in two directions on the playa...north and south. Just look towards Gerlach, then turn around 180 degrees. Use the truck as a wind block, as well as an anchor for any large shelter structures you may have.

Explore Eplaya and you should find all the answers you need.

Local Grocery stores bring out water on pallets around Burning Man. I'd leave it up to each member of your camp to bring their own water.

thisisthatwhichis · Post by **thisisthatwhichis** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:18 pm

You didn't indicate what city you will be flying into and out of. I recommend you get the map out and see the large distances between where you are arriving and Gerlach, NV. That will help to make sure everyone is able to meet up after they arrive. A rental tuck works good, but you should be working on truck reservations soon.

Reno, NV is the closest larger city where just about everything you will need can be picked up (about a 2hr drive to BRC), but it's a lot more expensive to fly into internationally.

lucky420 · Post by **lucky420** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:39 pm

Yurts are lovely and if tied down right you should have no problem with the winds...we used a yurt last year and it was fantastic. We are reusing it again this year

mudpuppy000 · Post by **mudpuppy000** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:59 pm

I'm assuming you're not planning on transporting those 14 people to the playa in that truck (illegal) so you'll need additional vehicles. You can spread out a lot of the things you're planning on bringing (water) between the various vehicles too, maybe so much that you don't even need a truck. Smaller bottles are definitely easier to handle than giant ones also.

Lord Of Ruin · Post by **Lord Of Ruin** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:40 pm

With a group that large, why not rent two trucks and split the group into two crews.

Then use the trucks as 'playa apartments"....very easy to move all your goods out into carports or tents.

Protected from the elements and such.

Or you could also outfit one or more of them as secure storage and one as a food prep area with a grill out off the back bumper.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:27 pm

The Airport Runway that is apparent on all official maps represents the primary direction of the normal wind. Wind can and will come from all directions so plan for that. I park my box truck in such a manner that it provides the best wind shelter with the wind moving south to north along the bearing of the runway. I have had what I would characterize as very good results using this method which means 3/4 of the time it provides some advantage and the other 1/4 of the time I have to live with whatever conditions are presenting themselves.

I budget 2 gallons of water a day for my own use and buy it in 5 gallon jugs from The Home Depot. They are not to hard to move by hand and big enough to stay put. I always end up with excess which I think is a good safety buffer. I always bring a flat of 1liter bottles in case I need quick and easy water. If you are feeling off it is nice to have a very quick water solution.

The easiest way to deal with grey water is to pack it out in 30 or 55 gallon drums and then drain them in to a RV Dump Station. These large plastic drums are available in any major metropolitan area. Search on Craigslist to find someone selling them for reuse. I can pick up as many as I want around here for 15 bucks. The price should be close to the same for you. I have built many an evaporation device and find that although I enjoy projects my time is much more valuably spent interacting with people and so I try to do what is simple, not time consuming and proven.

The honda EU series generators are the best for quiet and reliability. Renting one of them would be way better than renting a loud one and trying to spend time and materials making a baffle box.

I set up my box truck as my house. It works very well for me. It gets exceptionally hot in there during the day so is not useful for day sleeping. it is basically uninhabitable by 8 or 9 am. opening the back door all the way helps a little. I always block the door open a minimum of 2 inches to get some minor air flow if I am inside. I also use a lock to secure the latch so no one can accidentally or purposely lock me inside. It also gets quite cold at night so I have many blankets. It is a good spot for my kitchen as I don't have to worry as much about moop hitting the playa.

It sounds like you are going to do really well. Keep searching here for answers and ask questions when need be.

Welcome.

Brittus · Post by **Brittus** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:50 am

Thank you all for your responses! Thought I'd update you on my current thinking following some more research and taking into account the posts you guys have so kindly made.

Transport

This will consist of a 22' box lorry and either one or two 10 seater minibuses for transporting people; so it's turned into a small convoy already. That gives three vehicles in all, meaning that we can create a north/south wind break using the vehicles with the tents in between. It should mitigate some of the effects likely to be experienced when the wind picks up.

We'll be flying from London Heathrow to Reno via Dallas Fort Worth, seems the most expedient and plenty of carriers do that route.

Water

I've been looking at the best way to deal with grey water and I think we'll probably plan for three ways:

1. An evaporation pool, potentially built on the roof of the 22' box lorry. Putting it on the ground would seem to invite people to 'slip and slide' through it, and if it gets torn/ripped, we could end up dumping a not insignificant amount of water into the playa. A simple gravity pump would suffice in getting grey water from source to the pool.

2. I'm used to using silver nitrate based water cleaners. Some of them have very reasonable throughput per hour, so (and this is predominantly cost/benefit dependent) there is no reason why grey water cannot be filtered and the resulting output added back to the main water tank(s).

3. A dump tank for grey water that cannot be dealt with via the pool would handle any extra and this would have to be disposed of after the festival at one of the dumps on the way back to Reno.

The amount of water required per day per user seems to vary considerably based on people's experience; so it is probably more towards the 2 gal per person per day, rather than 1.5 gal. Its a lot of water :)

Tents

Most likely we'll acquire two British Army surplus desert mess tents. They're designed specifically to cope with the weather/conditions I'm seeing recounted across many posts on eplaya, and aren't that expensive. They are however heavy and not quick to put up, but will easily offer basic levels of comfort and security for the folks we're planning to bring.

One of things I'd like to ask is: has anyone else every undertaken the BM festival in such a manner; i.e. having to plan everything remotely and then send over an advance team to tie up all the loose ends before the main event?

Currently I'm thinking that I'll do the following:

1. Draw up a camp plan and priority list of items that need acquiring
2. Hire as much as I can over the internet to secure trucks/etc.
3. Order as much as is sensible over the internet and have it all delivered to a 'local' self storage unit or something similar; we certainly don't want to be shipping items over to arrive when the advance team does as we don't have a local address under our control.

Does anyone have any experience with 3) above? is there anywhere anyone would recommend?

Cheers

Brittus

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:38 pm

You might try contacting local stores, and ask if you can pre pay for items, to be picked up before the event. Their economy is in the shithole, and they may just reserve items for you, provided they're paid for. As far as loose ends go, I proposed on share recources..I think..about preparing crates of personal equiptment, for international burners. small things like tents, sleeping bags, tools, flashlights, etc... That would be "rented", I guess you could say....pre festival.

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:40 am

Brittus wrote:makes me think that this could actually rock rather hard

Rather.

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:18 am

Brittus, sounds very organized.

re Tents. There are several military surplus stores in/around Reno. you might want to inquire there about a US Army GP Medium tent. They show up for around $250 - 400. and weight is about 300 pounds. Buying one in US may be cheaper than freight from UK.

Also another popular method is using 5-way connectors for canopies, electrical conduit, and poly tarps. If you look closely at the satellite images linked elsewhere on this site, you can see areas of blue or dark grey surrounded by vehicles.

re Water. the 5 gallon jugs from Home Depot (used for home/office drinking water) are great. once they are empty, put grey water back in for hauling out.

A single water source/tank can be contaminated easily, not recommended.

Evap pond on the roof: any evap pond will get mud in it from the blowing dust. Do you want to deal with that on the roof of a truck, or on the ground.

Actually, if you use the jugs to haul grey water out, you won't need an evap pond, just a funnel.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:25 am

Play with this!

http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/fullscreen/66285/

Brittus · Post by **Brittus** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:29 pm

Once more, thank you for your replies; having spent the weekend investigating, researching, reading and generally looking at Flickr, it all seems rather "unique" :)

I have a question about turning up with three vehicles and everything needed to sustain something approximating life for the duration...

How does the addressing/camp placement work?

Do you just turn up and the BM folks take a look at you and say "go here", and you then tack yourself on to the camp next door, or do you get allocated a square meterage based on you telling BM your camp plans etc?

I cant seem to find much in the way of info concerning this...

Cheers

Brittus

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:35 pm

Careful about packing. Some Canadians with a box truck lost a couple cases of Molson due to shifting loads.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:43 pm

YOu drive the city streets until you find a spot that works. Park, then have a talk with the neighbors. Make sure that they don't have any reasonable plans for the area and that they aren't batshit crazy. Then set up.

Token · Post by **Token** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:43 pm

Dear Brittus,

Before you go all crazy with the planning; wait until June. Ask those 13 mates to show you their BM and airline tickets.

Once the group of 14 becomes a group of 4, it's allot easier to plan the trip.

Good luck.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:49 pm

Brittus wrote:I've been looking at the best way to deal with grey water and I think we'll probably plan for three ways:

1. An evaporation pool, potentially built on the roof of the 22' box lorry. Putting it on the ground would seem to invite people to 'slip and slide' through it, and if it gets torn/ripped, we could end up dumping a not insignificant amount of water into the playa. A simple gravity pump would suffice in getting grey water from source to the pool. This would be exceptionally hard to do as the entire vehicle would need to be leveled based on the plane of the roof additionally anything put in or removed from the vehicle would change that due to suspension spring compression. Easier to locate an evaporation pond away from the street toward the center of the block.

2. I'm used to using silver nitrate based water cleaners. Some of them have very reasonable throughput per hour, so (and this is predominantly cost/benefit dependent) there is no reason why grey water cannot be filtered and the resulting output added back to the main water tank(s). I would seriously avoid doing this due to the possibility of contamination and it is generally accepted that experiencing things in the city is a better allocation of time than performing camp maintenance.

3. A dump tank for grey water that cannot be dealt with via the pool would handle any extra and this would have to be disposed of after the festival at one of the dumps on the way back to Reno.This is a very common combination that is proven to work with the right management.

Post by **AntiM** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:49 pm

You determine your address and footprint. When you roll up to greeters (which is after Gate), they give you a map. It will look at lot like maps from every other year which you can study online for an idea of what is Open Camping. Stay away from the shaded theme camp and village and keyhole areas. Drive slowly to a likely area. Look around and see if there's open room. Pull over, chat up the neighbors. Double check your map to make sure you are where you think you are. Settle in. Use what space you need, but don't get into a land war, and don't be greedy.

May people with early entry for other camps/projects do land grabs, so the prime open camping spots are often "full". They are not supposed to do this, but it happens. The farther back you get from the Esplanade, the more choices you will have.

While looking for a place, don't be too eager. For example, in Hushville, we're up most of Sunday night directing folks in RVs away from what looks like inviting prime real estate. It isn't, it is Hushville and our people (hundreds of them) trickle in. So if someone says, this is such and such, smile nicely and move along. You will find a spot, and it will be perfect. Just might take a couple tries.

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:59 pm

quick answer: about 1/3 of the folks create an "official registered theme camp" and go through a registration and placement process. The rest of the folks camp wherever is vacant. If you search around the main website, or here, you can find links to city maps for previous years. These will show where registered theme camps are "placed" They will also show that most of the city is open/unassigned camping

I would suggest as first timers that you not go thru the theme camp process and just arrive, then work your way towards the center looking for a space large enough for your group. Then stop, say hello to your neighbors, and see if it works out. Note that the extreme ends of the city (2:00 and 10:00) have LARGE sound camps with sound systems approaching or surpassing outdoor concert power (20,000 - 100,000 watts) that are operating from about dark until sunrise. This may affect your choice of locations.

If your group has a strong common interest that you want to share with the city(ballroom dancing, disco, body painting,etc.), by all means go through the theme camp registration process, where a 'placer' will assign you a place (like 8:30 and B street) a few weeks ahead of time. As you arrive at the gate they will ask you if you are with a theme camp. You will tell them your placer's name, and your location. They will radio your placer who will meet you at the assigned location. Do not unpack or set up until speaking with your placer at the assigned location, even if you get in at 0100 and don't see your placer until 0800.

keep reading here and on the main website.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:01 pm

What AntiM said.

What Token said too. (He made me laugh, I like that.)

Brittus · Post by **Brittus** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:08 pm

Great, thanks.

I figured it might be a "drive around, find somewhere okay and see if it works" type affair; we are definitely not attempting to create a theme camp however, it would be too much for our first Burn.

That said, if nice folks wander in I'd feel obliged to gift a nice cup of tea, and a wear of my bowler hat, in line with the best stereotypical British traditions.

Since this is a company trip, we'll be picking up the tab for those going, from air fares to bags of biodegradable portable toilet liners; so I too would find it a lot easier to plan for four people but am pretty sure most of the company will respond with a hearty "hell yeah!" when we announce, provided it doesn't cripple us with the logistics :)

Post by **AntiM** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:12 pm

Alright, all together now, "Are you hiring?"
We don't even care what it is the company does.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:04 pm

FYI -- these are *not* Tardises.

Mojojita · Post by **Mojojita** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:06 am

Oh yes, I want to work for you!

LittleJack · Post by **LittleJack** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:55 am

Brittus wrote: That said, if nice folks wander in I'd feel obliged to gift a nice cup of tea, and a wear of my bowler hat, in line with the best stereotypical British traditions.

How about Morris Dancing?

I'll bring my mandolin by, and I know good number of morris tunes. If I think of it this year I'll even bring bells and hankies. Amazing how morris kit can double as Burning Man costume!

-Little Jack
Berkeley Morris
Red Rose Morris and Sword
Bombastic Border
Ale meister for the 2011 California Morris Ale
ex Faultline Morris

Â¡Niers! · Post by **Â¡Niers!** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:23 pm

motskyroonmatick wrote:I also use a lock to secure the latch so no one can accidentally or purposely lock me inside.

Damn! There goes my chance of pranking your ass, Motz!
Kidding, I wouldn't do that to you.....or would I?