how to disagree

[moonrise]

I missed debate class, lots of moving around growing up.

BUT I'm learning more about it here...following links from eplaya is fascinating!
"eplaya, the burning man school of hard knocks, it's the school that totally rocks!"

I didn't notice a flame war...well maybe but didn't it resolve quickly? (our Anti stepped in? gulp)
Thread busters, yea, maybe, perhaps they can bust in with a more thoughtful approach?

I wanna say, countless backyard/local burgins, 1,2,3,4,5x, and even 12 x burners ask me how I know so much from going to BM once, 2010, and express they want to return or go but they won't because they don't know how to connect with the intelligent burners, they crave this side of burning man, are they dumb or lazy? I don't think so, just busy or intimidated perhaps, the recession is NOT helping either (fyi, one person blasted me when I mentioned eplaya)

I refer these humans to eplaya BUT with a mini warning; "read between the lines, have thick skin, take your time, yadda yadda yadda and you'll find the intelligent ones"

Anywho, I adore Simon's hilarious stuff, if he goes, I go!
I also think in open discussion the chatting/nattering/blathering on about soy milk, guns n ammo, camping gear, and etc etc etc endless discussions to choose from are epic, valuable threads and if one human learns one good thing, it's worth it.

Happy New Year! & Remember "Soy is Toxic!" "Art heals the mind, create art!"

[knowmad]

Syllogistics and Carl Sagan's "Candel in the Darkness" Changed my life. Made me Think, "Thinking is an awesome work out!"
Eplaya is a great gym. being inspired by other's intellects, feeling the burn, getting your ass handed to you. great times.

JSYK edited because this is my 420 post, and because I have an abundance of braincells that need to die, and smoking pot makes me able to deal with mouth breathers.

[daratheresa]

Syllogistics and Carl Sagan's "Candel in the Darkness" Changed my life. Made me Think, "Thinking is an awesome work out!"
Eplaya is a great gym. being inspired by other's intellects, feeling the burn, getting your ass handed to you. great times.

*cheers*

JSYK edited because this is my 420 post, and because I have an abundance of braincells that need to die, and smoking pot makes me able to deal with mouth breathers.

*cheers to that, too*

[theCryptofishist]

Cross-posted from Tribe.net

I actually spent my last two years of high school across the street from Evergreen Cemetery in Oakland, at the same time the unclaimed bodies from Jonestown were being buried there. It's almost certainly a good thing that I didn't know it then. My friends and I were of that too smart, too miserable type who were obsessed with the dark side of life, because the happy stuff we got told pretty much made no sense.
But I'm older now, and the event fills me with horror. There are plenty of people still alive, still morning family and friends torn from them in this most senseless of ways. And such a multi-layered horror. There were multiple "rehearsals" in which everyone would have to leave their huts and drink flavor aid in whatever flavor they had, being told it was poisoned with cyanide (it was cyanide, wasn't it? how nice to forget), with the whole shooting the concoction down the throats of babies and small children, before drinking your own, all the time listening to that mad man ranting the paranoid garbage that riddled his brain. What the fuck was it like to get up from that and with little or no sleep after wards get up the next morning and do more hard labor? On inadequate food and with all the daily little mindfucks that life there consisted of.
Robbed of humanity.
And now robbed of it again, by cheap references by lazy thinkers everyday on the internet. We live in such a wondrous age.

And using it is pretty much a scorched earth policy. It is very disrespectful of the person on the other side of the discussion, saying that nothing they can say has any value. It's pretty much asking to be written off as a person who can hold an intelligent discussion. It's kind of like carving "Troll" into your own forehead.
Is that what you want? You may win the argument, by taking it to a place where there is nothing more to be said, but you've lost any war, and any right to be at the table for any peace talks. The only people who are going to think you're cool or smart or worthwhile are themselves so puerile as to be pretty much a waste of time. Like calls to like, I suppose.

Pretty much worthy only of pity.

[lucky.bastard]

i read a great book " The Lost Art of Listening " by Michael P. Nichols Ph.D.

not specific to debates but i think it is hard to disagree with someone you don't understand and that you can't understand someone without listening to them,,,

it gets into "active listening" that is to say to listen to what someone is saying and then process it,,, and only then think about what you want to say...,

my meager attempt to be a word-smith " never be so sure of yourself that you can not consider the other point of view "

[Ugly Dougly]

[youtube][/youtube]

[daratheresa]

[youtube][/youtube]

this. this is precisely what i was getting at when i started this thread. if you have 20 minutes, watch it. it's well worth the time.

[Simon of the Playa]

please please please cant i just STOMP THEM WITH MY BIG BLACK STOMPY BOOTS?


please?

[daratheresa]

please please please cant i just STOMP THEM WITH MY BIG BLACK STOMPY BOOTS?


please?

go for it. big stompy boots are the awesome, too. i have big black stompy boots myself. don't wear them much anymore, but i still have them, and can drag them out when needed. (both literally and figuratively.)

[FIGJAM]

Always walk a mile in your advisaries shoe's.

Then you're a mile away and he has no shoe's.

[Simon of the Playa]

i have decided from now on i will simply make a youtube video reply for any and all disagreements i may have in the future just like TONETTA has done with "her" issues.



don't fuck with me, i will respond in song and dance. Vicious song and dance...go ahead, click on it, i dare you.

[theCryptofishist]

please please please cant i just STOMP THEM WITH MY BIG BLACK STOMPY BOOTS?


please?

go for it. big stompy boots are the awesome, too. i have big black stompy boots myself. don't wear them much anymore, but i still have them, and can drag them out when needed. (both literally and figuratively.)

*sigh*

Maybe I should have an official "Stomper."

[Simon of the Playa]

[moonrise]

I like sociology!



Shouldn't that guy ^^^^ with the black and white T-shirt have a second similar sign for that building behind him? The building with the blood red doors.

[daratheresa]

please please please cant i just STOMP THEM WITH MY BIG BLACK STOMPY BOOTS?


please?

go for it. big stompy boots are the awesome, too. i have big black stompy boots myself. don't wear them much anymore, but i still have them, and can drag them out when needed. (both literally and figuratively.)

*sigh*

Maybe I should have an official "Stomper."

maybe you should have a team of them, shock-troop style.

[mdmf007]

Always walk a mile in your advisaries shoe's.

Then you're a mile away and he has no shoe's.

My feet are four sizes bigger than his, cant I simply take his shoes and make him walk the mile?

[mdmf007]

This one always make me laugh

[ibdave]

You all mean to tell me they do not teach debate in school anymore?

Depends on if they have a Teacher-Coach. Were lucky that both my Kids did really well in speech-debate. The skills they have learned are not always taught in the other classes. My Son paid his 1st years Tuition with the $$ he won at outside speech contest.

[Simon of the Playa]

ok, i had a slight epiphany over a cigarette and a really good cup of coffee from my friends, the coffee mafia....best coffee in the great barren, Northwestern new York there is to be had.

I apologize for the flame wars.

I am guilty of taking things to the N'th degree, and it's not helpful.

everyone is entitled to their opinion, and from now on i will try to remain civil and avoid name-calling and keep the discourse friendly and positive as it is on the actual playa. I'm not really as terrible as i seem in person, and can provide affidavits.

yeah, i'm a megaphone asshole....yeah, i say stupid shit.

yeah, i don't mean anyone any harm, and mean that.

so i guess i'll try to show by example that this rancor is not necessary, and will avoid it at all costs.

i am not de-clawing the bear, poke him enough, and you will end up like a werner herzog film.

i am, however truly sorry for stooping to the level i have at points, and will attempt to take a road less traveled, at least for me, being a gutter-snipe and scrapper at heart, to keep things respectful and amicable.

Everybody, Please fuck Your day.


sneaky-break-time-done.bye.

[ygmir]

ok, i had a slight epiphany over a cigarette and a really good cup of coffee from my friends, the coffee mafia....best coffee in the great barren, Northwestern new York there is to be had.

I apologize for the flame wars.

I am guilty of taking things to the N'th degree, and it's not helpful.

everyone is entitled to their opinion, and from now on i will try to remain civil and avoid name-calling and keep the discourse friendly and positive as it is on the actual playa. I'm not really as terrible as i seem in person, and can provide affidavits.

yeah, i'm a megaphone asshole....yeah, i say stupid shit.

yeah, i don't mean anyone any harm, and mean that.

so i guess i'll try to show by example that this rancor is not necessary, and will avoid it at all costs.

i am not de-clawing the bear, poke him enough, and you will end up like a werner herzog film.

i am, however truly sorry for stooping to the level i have at points, and will attempt to take a road less traveled, at least for me, being a gutter-snipe and scrapper at heart, to keep things respectful and amicable.

Everybody, Please fuck Your day.


sneaky-break-time-done.bye.

GROUP HUG

[H.G.Crosby]

[Eric]

Simon- just don't forget that you can still be polite & call out shit when you see it.

Yes, you can be... "aggressive" at times, but I would hate to lose your bluntness around here.

Daratheresa'a post of the "empathy" video did the same sort of thing to me. 20 minutes well spent.

[FIGJAM]

If you cant say somthing nice, say it nicely?

[Simon of the Playa]

well, i was reminded by my better half that it's not nice to be not nice.


granted, it is hard for me to turn the other cheek, almost painfully so, and i have to re-adjust my hair trigger response to only fire when actual threats to me or mine are taken, and to live and let live within certain frameworks of universal respect.

i'm learning.

i need to temper my blade in order to sharpen it.

anyway, this cigarette is gone, and i hope there is no hard feelings from my fellow e-playans and playans regardless of any persuasion or bias.

so, how many days until i'm allowed to burn stuff and blow shit up again?

[daratheresa]

Daratheresa'a post of the "empathy" video did the same sort of thing to me. 20 minutes well spent.

found that in one of my gazillions of news feeds the other day and it really seemed to hit the spot. like a shot of espresso for the soul, it makes you wake up a little...

[Major Krash]

What I ment by active listening is the way I learned it in interpersonal communications class.

Listen carfully to the person speaking, then repeat back what you understood them to say, then voice your responce.

I've never had a conversation with anybody patient enough to do this. :lol:

This is the essence of "Verbal Judo", an excellent book on handling confrontation in a non-confrontational way (that, and seeing things from their perspective and looking for common ground). I wish I had more skill in it.

[Elderberry]

ok, i had a slight epiphany over a cigarette and a really good cup of coffee from my friends, the coffee mafia....best coffee in the great barren, Northwestern new York there is to be had.

I apologize for the flame wars.

I am guilty of taking things to the N'th degree, and it's not helpful.

everyone is entitled to their opinion, and from now on i will try to remain civil and avoid name-calling and keep the discourse friendly and positive as it is on the actual playa. I'm not really as terrible as i seem in person, and can provide affidavits.

yeah, i'm a megaphone asshole....yeah, i say stupid shit.

yeah, i don't mean anyone any harm, and mean that.

so i guess i'll try to show by example that this rancor is not necessary, and will avoid it at all costs.

i am not de-clawing the bear, poke him enough, and you will end up like a werner herzog film.

i am, however truly sorry for stooping to the level i have at points, and will attempt to take a road less traveled, at least for me, being a gutter-snipe and scrapper at heart, to keep things respectful and amicable.

Everybody, Please fuck Your day.


sneaky-break-time-done.bye.

OMG, now I know the end of days is near.

Nice post Simon.

JK

[Trishntek]

well, i was reminded by my better half that it's not nice to be not nice.


granted, it is hard for me to turn the other cheek, almost painfully so, and i have to re-adjust my hair trigger response to only fire when actual threats to me or mine are taken, and to live and let live within certain frameworks of universal respect.

i'm learning.

i need to temper my blade in order to sharpen it.

anyway, this cigarette is gone, and i hope there is no hard feelings from my fellow e-playans and playans regardless of any persuasion or bias.

so, how many days until i'm allowed to burn stuff and blow shit up again?

TWO-HUNDRED-FOURTEEN! Less if you get early entry!