Survival

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:34 pm

Actually, I look to my BM supplies as a decent foundation for survival goods. We keep a rather large supply of canned goods, baby wipes and ass wipe and cycle them to maintain a fresh supply at all times. We also keep 30 gallons of water in storage at all times. With a portable toilet, solar power array and enough shelter for the whole neighborhood if needed. Several gallons of propane, gasoline and motor oil will keep us cooking and running the genset for several days if necessary.

edit: no the motor oil is not for cooking!

Rabbi Dali Rick · Post by **Rabbi Dali Rick** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:13 am

cowboyangel wrote:they might not (might) have an official button like that in the US. but even if they did i'm going to bet that within days rogue networks would pop up all over, someone would hijack a satellite or two or something, and we'd have it back up before anyone could say boo...

*edit - i spel gud

tell your friends that there's b-gan and ham radio modems for internet over ham frequencies.[/quote]

I have bee working on this and I'm interested maybe putting together some type of server that can connect a LAN to some sort of modem. Has anybody put together or have one of these up and running? I'm thinking a server, hooked to a WiFi enabled modem to connect everybody locally and attach some other modem that will allow outside devices to connect, maybe to a BBS on the server. Is this doable?

the rebbi

Rabbi Dali Rick · Post by **Rabbi Dali Rick** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:17 am

Is there a short list or website, that outlines the system? A "Survival for Dummies"...

the rebbi

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:26 pm

Rabbi Dali Rick wrote:This whole selective News reporting thing has got me bugging a little. They are now leaving out major news articles to make room for entertainment news. The shooting in the police station in Detroit didn't make the news till late afternoon, but one of the Olsen sister's Sundance open has been on since it opened this morning. But we knew this already. It's just that it's getting so blatant that it's ludicrous. It just goes to show how fucked up shot is when Drudge Report is a better source of news than the TV or either of the Times.

the rebbi

Speaking of selective news reporting:

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/201 ... y-bre.html

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:41 pm

The Pros

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:32 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:The Pros

They really don't state its capacity or battery/energy storage issues. I would be very curious to get a close look at this setup.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:09 pm

About 1 1/2 years ago, there was a DARPA competition where there was a demonstration of a device the size of a phone booth that would condense out 60 gallons a day of fresh water with NO power input. All this in a desert environment. The original application did NOT look good enough for DARPA to fund it. it was privately funded.

On a more personal note, mother nature is going to take a whack at the Eastern U.S.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110131/ap_ ... er_weather

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:01 pm

can't sit still wrote:About 1 1/2 years ago, there was a DARPA competition where there was a demonstration of a device the size of a phone booth that would condense out 60 gallons a day of fresh water with NO power input. All this in a desert environment. The original application did NOT look good enough for DARPA to fund it. it was privately funded.

On a more personal note, mother nature is going to take a whack at the Eastern U.S.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110131/ap_ ... er_weather

A atmosphiric water generater... gime gime The size of a out house huh?

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:24 pm

No problem Harley, FAX me your credit card #
http://www.healthierliving.us/Atmos-H2O ... r-p28.html

On a different thought, There is a Russian guy who did very interesting research on the Great Depression [1]
"According to the US census statistics, America lost 10 million of its population from 1931 to 1940. A Russian researcher, Boris Borisov worked on uncovering the death toll during the American Famine and his estimates are that 5 million children died of starvation and 2.5 million adults."

This is a long article that makes a lot of claims that are kind of sketchy,,, on other subjects. There are very interesting stories about migrants being forcibly excluded from California.

"President Hoover ordered regular military soldiers to crush all social unrest. A large majority of the population fleeing the Dust Bowl region headed to California. These Americans were met at the border by police and state national guard who beat them back into the Mojave and Sonoran Desert. Thirst and starvation was the final outcome."

"Bound for Glory, an autobiography of Woody Guthrie records a striking account of these events. Besides blocking the roads into California, freight trains were stopped by police in the most desolated desert regions and the unwanted refugee passengers were rounded up, beaten and removed of any food, water or personal identification."

"They were left to die in the desert as the train moved on. The Woody Guthrie song "This Train" turns out to be a eulogy to the victims of these events. "This Train" describes how the refugees did nothing to deserve the treatment experienced on the American Death Trains.
This of course was a different time period, social class and ethnic genocide would never occur in America of the 21st century. Following Hurricane Katrina 2005, Arthur Lawson, chief of the Gretna, La., police ordered his officers to block the only escape route for the 35,000 residence trapped in the Superdome, with no food or palatable water.

Four police cruisers blocked the lanes of the Mississippi River Bridge sealing off the only escape route from the Superdome. Officers fired shotguns over the fleeing population, most retreated immediately. Deaths were attributed to the fact that refugees were unable to breakout"

It's up to you to separate the wheat from the chaff.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/283/639/ ... ssion.html

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:17 pm

As I recall the blockade of the bridge was performed by order of Gov. Blanco.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:23 pm

Job info;
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archiv ... ddle-class

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... n-to-cheer

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:15 pm

This quote speaks volumes;
"Newt Gingrich, neocon Bilderberger, wants to pass legislation to allow states to go bankrupt. That would allow the states to dispense with all or part of their pension and benefit obligations "
The pensions WILL be dumped, whether by fiat or by default.
California's pension-payment obligations in 2012 will be 550% of total state revenue.
http://news.goldseek.com/InternationalF ... 620000.php

In Britain, public pensions are collapsing;
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2 ... uries.html
Plan accordingly.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:15 am

So... what is YOUR trigger? When you pull the plug, do the GOOD routine, make like a tree and leaf?

Or will you be staying, hunkering, and waiting out the SHTF moments on your home turf?

Or do you really think it's necessary? All of this preparedness stuff? Folly of a bunch of paranoid nay-sayers?

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:58 am

Sue, If you look at a graph of the debt, you can see that GOV won't be able to operate in it's accustomed manner for very much longer. It's a re-run of what happened in Argentina, Russia, etc. People are going to be quite pissed off at their losses. It's an attitude thing;
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2 ... ow-we.html
GOV expects a lot of crime;
http://www.businessinsider.com/national ... lan-2011-2
I expect a lot of crime. I expect hyperinflation. I expect GOV to default and NOT pay it's employees.
I'll hang out in the L.A. area until crime gets too bad or diesel fuel deliveries stop. I have drums of fuel stashed here and there.
I have a refuge set up in the perfect area. It has everything. I hope to be able to help out people, especially kids.
The general expectation is 2 years of total chaos. After that, the PTB will have to come up with some kind of workable plan to keep from backsliding to a Mad Max world.
It will be either crime or diesel fuel that will make me leave.

How about you? How apokalyptica does it have to get for you to look for another locale? When does the involuntary camping trip begin?

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:53 pm

I've heard 2-4 years as a likely "destabilizing" time. Some of the "stability" scenarios bother me quite a bit, because I think that we as humans are capable of more. Yet, I look at it this way - all empires - from roman to abysinnian to bornu to aztec seem to last about the same amount of time and collapse, get absorbed, or devolve. They go thru much the same process, and then... poof.

We're already owned by certain countries that hold most of our debt. How long do you think the creditors will be kept waiting? Until we piss away our resources on these wars we're up to our pits in? Until our net worth is zero? Ever wonder WHY we're in these wars? Oil? Burn up our military resources? Makes it easier to waltz in and "reposess" your debt via land and labor.

As to the, um, long walk scenario? wellll... let's just say that we have active options that we could employ if need be. Working on more. But if SHTF and we could travel, it's a cakewalk. If travel is difficult... maybe a stale bread walk. Nothing involuntary, tho... ;) We've already tested a couple of those, and they were successful to the hotwash stage. ;)

Actually, BRC taught me a lot of the essentials - which I've been fortunate enough to already use. I think both knowledge - things not only we'd need personally, but skills that a community could use - are essential. Between that and the ability to not either become an involuntary serf or "zombie food" for the encoraching uncivilization are also must-knows.

I used to laugh about survivalists... but ya know, I'd rather be prepared and have plans and options than have to learn a foreign language (cantonese??) as my primary language. And that's nothing to Yuan about...

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:19 pm

'
Your house is moraged for thirty years.. Very thing will change in that time.. The guy next door will abandon and squaters will move in.. No fence will keep your garden..

Sounds good huh?

What do your need to make it through ..

Maslow's order of hierarchy is the base to servial..

Food

Shelter

Safty for your shelter..

All the rest cars, gas, generaters and other moderan shit comes way down the line..

Learn how to grow food in a cabinet.. Learn how to make drinkable water..

Have a movable shelter..

Learn how to arm yourself with some thing(s) you can handle..

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:40 pm

yeah, the "run or dig in" thing is tough.......depends on the situation, I'd think.
I try to be prepared for both.
and, it's sort of fun, just putting the stuff together, well, for me anyway.

depending on your age and abilities, skills may be worth more than "things".........

knowledge, in paper books (that don't need power to be read) may well be key.

Just like captain Kirk did in his defeat of the Gorn captain.

If you have knowledge and skills, you can make the things you need.

But, supplies are great.
Especially things to trade, or, that are very difficult to duplicate or make yourself.

Given the choice, I'll dig in.
knowing your territory, and probably your neighbors, you can band together to face threats, on a fairly large scale.
"there are none so fierce, and those fighting for their homes and families"

but, if "bug out" is called for, you gotta be quick and light ( a relative term, depending on if your riding a bike, or driving a deuce loaded with cargo).

But, you'll be a stranger, in a strange place, when you get "there".
and if dealing with folks already there, or that have always been there, at a distinct disadvantage.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:19 pm

Sue, if Maslow says that food is first,,,, China is screwed. They moved 300 million self-sufficient peasants from the countryside to the city. 700,000,000 million Chinese traveled home for the new year. China only has 6% of the world's water. We ARE in climate change. It is driven by the sun. Climate change is currently screwing with China's wheat crop. We can all expect this to get much worse.
As China revalues the remnimbi, their exports will drop off. They will have falling income and falling food production.
As the Eurozone crashes, they will import less from China. An able-bodied worker in America will be able to survive better than an able-bodies worker in China.

You will have enough notice to travel,,,, except for the earthquakes. Make sure that you have a good transmission,,, this time.

Once you settle into a place, make damn sure that it is where you want to be. 2 months later, travel will be very difficult. I read that it takes 1100 trucks of food a day to feed L.A. You have to be far distant from the cities.
In the previous riots where stores were looted, the owners never restocked until order was restored. In the last riots, people got happy and carted off everything. You can expect stores to just shut down and empty out. This will cause panic and people will really lose it.
The proposed budget cuts back on WIC and food stamps, section 8 and lots of other stuff. Something will set it off. The guns will come out. The frustration will boil over.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:19 am

It was the motor, not the tranny. It's being rebuilt yet again (slowest mechanic on the fracking planet - did a face to face asschew last weekend with him)... This time I get to break it in nice and gentle-like. Not like that goofball exercise he did last time - just started, and he takes it up on a freeway and floors it. Moron. Really, I don't think I trust him too much. Saw the bearings - the rear main was down to brass (no shit!) and wanked the crankshaft. The others weren't much better. He says "it got hot", I say he fracked up the job.

Back to topic... We have (or at least had, until this winter) the breadbasket of the world, and ))gulp(( California is one of the world's biggest rice producers. A fact not lost on the nation's "creditors", I am assured. And as to able bodied workers - it's amazing how much production you can get out of little kids when when you work them 14 hours a day and incarcerate them for the other 10... Just (sadly) ask Apple... I love their stuff, but if that's what it's like over there, it makes me sick.

While the Euro is coming apart (no surprise there!), the EU has been through shit before, and will likely survive yet again. We, on the other hand, have yet to go through mass disease and starvation and invasion... (and no, the "great depression" of the 30's is a drop in the bucket)... just what will happen is anyone's guess.

Anyway, hopefully brunhilde will be back soon... needs to be good and strong to haul the armor plating gong under the skin, and to absorb the recoil from the twin 88's on the roof while still going 75 MPH... ;) Can never be too paranoid, after all...

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:28 am

.
Check out...New Deal or Raw Deal.. How FDR kept us poor until another war started..

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:48 am

It is well known that FDR had crops destroyed to manipulate commodity prices among other price and wage freezes that made matters worse.

I'm just not sure if Ventura is a good place to be when SHTF or not. We are over the hill from the metro area and are fairly isolated by the ocean and mountains. OTOH,,,, that limits our options too. Lemons, oranges, avocados and strawberries practically grow themselves around here.

A few years ago we actually looked into living on a yacht instead of land. But fuel and docking issues are so very expensive it seems impractical. The independence of it is really a facade when you consider the reality of maintenance and logistics as we get older. It genuinely puts you at the mercy of the elements.

Having the F550 out front and plenty of stuff ready to load into it and head out within an hour brings somewhat of a comfort. Digging in would be the first option considering our distance from the city. Opossum and raccoon recipes are filed with the dog and cat cuisine. Plenty of doves around here too. Anybody know a good recipe for seagull?

edit to respond to BBS:

We, on the other hand, have yet to go through mass disease and starvation and invasion...

I would submit the Civil War was no cakewalk.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:55 am

yeah Tnt.........that close to that much population could be tough.

One thing to consider:
make sure, you have a front bumper, that is heavy enough to push cars and "others" out of your way. A truck is great, unless the road is blocked, and offroad is not possible.
I have large push type bumpers on my large vehicles. I also made the bumpers, for an easy add on of a lower push area, for keeping "stuff" from getting under or building up, as I push my way out........

is your truck 4x4?
That will open up more alternate routes for you.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:02 am

No 4x4 unfortunately. I use it for da business so it has a 16' insulated box with a 3300# 8'x7' liftgate. The box really limits where it can go, but it can haul a lot of stuff!

I used to run snowplows in the Big Horn Mt. of Wyoming,,,,, that would be the tits!

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:10 am

.
Whats so wrong with planing.. Back to the land.. Madison ave has us to believe we need to eat two cows a year and not own a car oover one year old.. We are traped in our own heads..

I said to my daughter: How about those smart cars??

She, There ugly..

What if they were the best car with the best mileage??

She, No way, There ugly..

So your willing to pay 5-10k not to own a ugly car??

She, Yes

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:27 am

unjonharley wrote:.
Whats so wrong with planing.. Back to the land.. Madison ave has us to believe we need to eat two cows a year and not own a car oover one year old.. We are traped in our own heads..

I said to my daughter: How about those smart cars??

She, There ugly..

What if they were the best car with the best mileage??

She, No way, There ugly..

So your willing to pay 5-10k not to own a ugly car??

She, Yes

Interesting. We were one of the first to own a SmartCar here in L.A. They are quite popular now and even the kids get a kick out of them.

We love it by the way. We'll probably get the electric version too as soon as it's available.

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:34 am

Sometimes when I click on a thread like this by accident I find myself wondering about what it is that I can do to save you all from yourselves.

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:55 am

jkisha wrote:Sometimes when I click on a thread like this by accident I find myself wondering about what it is that I can do to save you all from yourselves.

JK

have you never had a hobby?
have you not done something, just for fun?
Most of the "stuff" "we" put together, is useful in daily life anyway.
and, if not needed, or the skills and planning are not needed........no harm, no foul.

but, for me, I'd hate to be in a position to need that stuff, and not have it.

it's tons of fun, to sit around and talk about this stuff (for me anyway), and, sort of like living or creating an EOW movie or play.

so, roll your eyes if you need to.......but, if you come crawling up to my "compound" after "the big one"........I'll still welcome you and help.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:06 am

unjonharley wrote:.
Whats so wrong with planing.. Back to the land.. Madison ave has us to believe we need to eat two cows a year and not own a car oover one year old.. We are traped in our own heads..

I said to my daughter: How about those smart cars??

She, Theyre ugly..

With the control of the media brainwashing the sheeple to support mindless war to burn up those resources you're paying for, get new stuff to give us your money (and throw away old stuff because it's old), so we can sell you more new stuff, The government telling you it ALWAYS has your best intrest at heart, just ignore the wars in resource-rich areas that can make ex-politicans money selling you resources...

... and the influx of Newsertainment, telling you how firearms are EVIL, Politicans corruption are sthe most important thing in the life of the world to you, and various other inane crap to get you addicted to the talking heads so you watch advertisements (see above),

Sadly, I'm not surprised. I wanted my kids raised right, but the media & government decided they knew better.

Funny thing - when that's all you have, it's amazing how that becomes "cool"... lot more so than walking. ;) (Plus... in the EU Smart Fortwo's ARE cool - hopped up for speed and accessories up the wazzoo, kids die for them. Plus at 100+ MPG, you can go somewhere in them cheap.)

jkisha wrote:Interesting. We were one of the first to own a SmartCar here in L.A. They are quite popular now and even the kids get a kick out of them.

We love it by the way. We'll probably get the electric version too as soon as it's available...

Just came out with the electric, I think it's a fortwo... the forfour can't be far behind, tho. Yeah, I want one, too!

I'm thinking of converting a Vespa Api (kind of like a 3 wheel submini pickup - famous in rural Italy) to electric - I know where there is one that's just sitting... would make a HELL of an around town scooter, like a Cushman Meter-maid mobile pick-up on steroids.

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:18 am

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:Sometimes when I click on a thread like this by accident I find myself wondering about what it is that I can do to save you all from yourselves.

JK
have you never had a hobby?
have you not done something, just for fun?
Most of the "stuff" "we" put together, is useful in daily life anyway.
and, if not needed, or the skills and planning are not needed........no harm, no foul.

but, for me, I'd hate to be in a position to need that stuff, and not have it.

it's tons of fun, to sit around and talk about this stuff (for me anyway), and, sort of like living or creating an EOW movie or play.

so, roll your eyes if you need to.......but, if you come crawling up to my "compound" after "the big one"........I'll still welcome you and help.

As a useful hobby, I have no problem with it. I just worry some take it way beyond that.

Ironically, John thinks in a similar way--which is why he rarely objects to the money I spend on generators and other things I like to spend money on to be comfortable at burning man, as he makes sure they are available throughout the year as "emergency preparedness supplies".

I rib him about it too!

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:30 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:
Just came out with the electric, I think it's a fortwo... the forfour can't be far behind, tho. Yeah, I want one, too!

I'm thinking of converting a Vespa Api (kind of like a 3 wheel submini pickup - famous in rural Italy) to electric - I know where there is one that's just sitting... would make a HELL of an around town scooter, like a Cushman Meter-maid mobile pick-up on steroids.

Actually, they did; but as far as I know it's still not available here yet. I was just at the dealership a few days ago and didn't see them. But, I was a bit disappointed after reading about this first version for the US--not as much distance on a charge as you might expect for such a small car.

So, I think I'll wait until the second generation comes out. Even with the gas model we have, about a year into owning it and after the second year model came out, they recalled the car for a version 2.0 upgrade to fix all of the problems. The difference after the upgrade was night and day. I'm thinking the same thing might happen with the electric version.

Another thing they discontinued right after the first year was the two different size tires--never should have had two different sizes for front and back to begin with--and they realized it and corrected it in the next model.

But, all in all, it's a great little car.

OH, just checked their website:

A fleet of 250 electric drive vehicles will begin arriving in the U.S. in late 2010 as the second phase of a three-phase program. Phase one began with the placement of 100 electric drive vehicles in London in 2007. Phase two is producing 1,500 cars for cities in Europe, the United States and Canada, as well as select markets in Asia and Germany. Phase three will be a full series production starting in the 2012 model year, at which time vehicles will be available for purchase by consumers

So it looks like I'll be waiting for 2013 model year to be releases.

JK