Community and Theft (Again...)

[Badger]

Mining a few topics from the old e-playa I wanted to put this out there to see if attitudes had remain consistent and to solicit new input from some of the folks here.

Community and Theft

Ask almost anyone attending to define Burning Man and inevitably the term 'community' works its way into the conversation almost immediately. For many, Black Rock City is buttressed by an idea that transcends traditional definitions of community. Others see our city as an exercise in anarchy where traditional rules defined by the 'default' world are relaxed, shifted or, just cease to exist. Terms such as Temporary Autonomous Zone (TAZ) work their way into our culture based on these perceptions. Those who have been to the playa before find such ideas ingrained into their psyche in such a profound way as to change their perceptions about community and society forever. It's part of what makes our city and the Burning Man experience so memorable for so many. Although perceptions and ideas about what constitutes community are myriad and very personal, one thing we do share in making our city is a social contract. A pact. An idea.

"Do not interfere with another participant's experience."

Nothing so egregiously violates this precept as theft perpetrated against another participant.

I'm wondering what people's take on the topic might be. Is theft something we need to concern ourselves with? Is snagging the unattended bicycle at Center Camp theft? If not, why not? What about someone pinching all (or part) of an artist's installation? How would you see it dealt with? Who should deal with it? What's the appropriate response?

So, what do you have to say about it?

[Bob]

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/arttheft/arttheft.htm

[quote=FBI]It took big money, patience, and a wide streak of criminality to pull off. Here's one example of the scheme:

1990: Buy the authentic Marc Chagall La Nappe Mauve for $312,000.
1993: Have it copied by an expert forger and sell the forgery for $514,000.
1998: Sell the authentic work of art for $340,000.
GAIN OVER 8 YEARS: $854,000.

Here's another:

1996: Buy the authentic Gustave Moreau L'Enlevement de Ganymede for $285,000.
1997: Have it copied by an expert forger and sell the forgery for a $55,000 loss– price tag $229,000.
1999: Sell the authentic work of art for a bigger loss–$170,000.
GAIN OVER 3 YEARS: $399,000[/quote]

Anything that happens at Burning Man is chicken feed by comparison, unless you're talking about the other kind of Art Theft.

[quote=Badger]"Do not interfere with another participant's experience."

Nothing so egregiously violates this precept as theft perpetrated against another participant. [/quote]

Assault, homicide, or dosing via cow udder might rank a bit higher than liberation of unprotected valuables, IMO.

[Bob]

Not to mention that missing Edit function.

[DangerMouse]

I'm going out on a limb here but its really more a matter of perspective.

Regardless of the monetary value there is the damage to your experience. You're in a place that everyone tells you is wonderful, yet people are stealing items from your camp, or 'borrowing them under altered states', however you want to term it.

I know I'd be pretty bummed if I returned to camp and found my bike, alcohol, shade structure, food, or generator (not that I'm bringing one) stolen. That feeling would last me for the rest of the trip, and would be a big negative mark on my memories and experiences on the playa.

Whether it is a moment of happiness stolen on the playa by the click of a camera, your art bike disappearing, or being sold a phony painting you still have the negativity that comes with it.

Or I could be, as usual, talking out of my arse again.

Viva Las Playa Dome!

[Ron]

..... Others see our city as an exercise in anarchy where traditional rules defined by the 'default' world are relaxed, shifted or, just cease to exist. .... Although perceptions and ideas about what constitutes community are myriad and very personal, one thing we do share in making our city is a social contract. A pact. An idea.

"Do not interfere with another participant's experience."

... Is theft something we need to concern ourselves with? Is snagging the unattended bicycle at Center Camp theft? If not, why not? What about someone pinching all (or part) of an artist's installation? How would you see it dealt with? Who should deal with it? What's the appropriate response?

So, what do you have to say about it?

For myself I think no one really suspends all traditional social rules in BRC and we wouldn't want them to. In fact, some lessons taught in real world preschools are vital to the community of BRC, seems to me. Just because we're in the dessert it's not suddently OK to punch someone in the face because you felt the need by way of one example.

Now having said that the concepts of personal space and private ownership do take a beating on playa. From inconsiderate requests, and indignant reponces to being denied those requests, up to actual theft. Yes, taking that unlocked bicycle that isn't yours, without express permission, is theft. Furthermore, you never know when the bike in question will mean something to the owner and your petty theft is their major loss. I take my workhorse bike to the playa, owned it since 1988 (back when it was a fine commuter bike) and while it's old and worn it still rides fine and carries many memories. A thief would only get a ride, I'd lose what has become a kind of friend, over the years.

However, I don't agree with your conception of the common pact at BRC. We interfere with each other's experience of the event all the time. Wether it's the bullhorn using hecklers, the dusting provided by a motorized rig on the playa, free food/drugs/or other gifts, loud music/generators, or so on everyone there is interferaring with the experience of everyone else all the time. It's called interaction and it's why we go. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's consensual, sometimes it's not. I never consented to slip in that pile of urine somone left for me around the man last year, but doing so did interfear with my experience. As did getting picked up by that fantastic blonde.

So I'd say that theft is an issue at BRC. And that we don't really have, and wouldn't really want, a place completely without traditional social "rules." However we are creating community with every action on playa and so the question of "What kind of community do *you* want to live in?" becomes more obvious to some, seems to me. Personally I wouldn't want to live in a place where it was considered OK for anyone to wander off with my stuff, playa or no.

Ron

[unjonharley]

It is said that locks are only to keep honest people honest.
But a lock will help others to spot a theif.

Others have written of there loses.
A truck stoped by one persons camp and throw in there generator. This was during the burn. One art car never was located. Put some fur on it and call it "Lock-art

[JezebelinHell]

Someone stole my 'unattended bike' from Center Camp last year, and yes, I considered it theft. So did the four people I was with who were all nice enough to walk their bikes back to our camp with me so I wouldn't get left alone. Gotta say though, when I discovered my bike had been stolen, it really didn't bug me all that much. It's not like I locked it, and it's not like I didn't have friends willing to let me borrow theirs.

[Tancorix]

2 burns, 2 years of problems. The first year my tent was gone through on burn night. I chalk that one up to newbie stupidity on my part for not properly securing my space.

Last year Tiff had her bike stolen because she went dancing and forgot to lock it up. A scooter vanished under similar circumstances. I tried reporting the bike theft to the rangers and it was so frustrating that Tiffany and I finally said fuck it and gave up. When the scooter came up missing we didn't even bother telling them.

In planning for this year security has been considered as important as safety and moop efforts. From Kryptonite locks for generators (Actually I'm putting the genny in a heavy steel cage) to safety fencing to redesigning the camp layout, the focus has been on making it difficult for anyone to go snooping for stuff that's not theirs. I also get the added benefit of some privacy when I want it.

I'd like to see an increased awareness / reminders of burn night security...that seems to be when most of the crap happens to everyone. Also keep encouraging people to get to know their neighbors. That's what helped me out last year more than anything.

[dragonfly Jafe]

I think everything you mention is Theft. Even the person who "borrows" a bike from center camp without removing it from the playa is stealing. Even if they return it later to the same spot, it is stealing. But I also agree that murder or assault or rape or involuntary dosing is more egregious than theft.

What I want to know is, assume you catch someone stealing your (insert expensive object here) red-handed. What can you do other than grab it back from them (if you are lucky) and cuss them out (which I have done)? What do you think would happen if you forceably detained the individual until the police could show up? Especially when they lamely say "dude, I thought this was my camp!" How much force would be allowed in this case? If you had to restrain said thief (with rope, duct tape, whatever) to prevent them from escaping until the police could show up, would you be liable for anything (especially considering that there is now no proof that they even tried to take something)? And how many people think the police would even show up if you reported a theft at BRC?

So what is the answer? I sometimes fantasize about a silenced rifle w/ night vision and picking off coyotes during the burn, but of course this would be totally unacceptable (besides the issue of MOOP, the smell would be horrible the next day!). Hmmm - if you can put anything from your body in the potty....can you put someone else'e body in the potty? Or branding anyone you catch with a "T" on their forehead (artistically of course). All joking aside, without some consequences, the local coyotes (and doubtlessly some burners as well) will just continue to steal. So how can we, as a community, make the thieves understand that there are risks to their actions so that they might stop?

We have often talked about leaving a guard behind, but who wants to miss the burn? Even locks are broken sometimes. Tents cut. A car seems to be the only thing that stops these thieves (apparently they do not want to break a car window)

Thoughts?

[unjonharley]

Break the fuckers leg. If and when the cops show. Just say damn i was trying to hold him. Guess he tryed to hard to get away.

The old man and myself have been to the burn a couple times. Last year he sat it out. This year He and I will both stay in camp. Our boys will go. Don't be fooled by my canes. I only fall over while standing still. Also i can catch
you within 25 yards. We alway get to know who camps around us!!

[stuart]

it is totally legal to use force to apprehend a fleeing felon.

I am brutally worried about theft this year. My project requires that I leave nearly $2,000 dollars worth of gear out in the relative open. We don't have too many folks in our camp so it is hard to have a guard. If I caught someone walking with part of my project there is no way they could claim ignorance. If I should wintess this act I worry for myself and for that person. There is no way, after the money spent, the emotional investment and the labor that I would trust to remain under control. I am at a loss about what to do. I don't feel it appropriate to go to the rangers and ask them to keep an eye out for me. That's not theirs or anyone elses job. Maybe if I get a really bad rep as a dope dealer the BLM will cruise my camp on a regualr basis.

taking a bike is theft
taking art is theft

both of those things are a personal violation and are arguably, despite the dollar values, as egregious as bob's distractions.

they ought to be taken seriously and dealt with severely.

[Tancorix]

Frontier justice would be a bad idea, but what are the alternatives if you catch someone? The Rangers have no authority to do anything serious, but if you bring in the LEO's, is it worth the trouble? Would the LEO's collect the theft info for future use and leverage it into a way to gain more control over how the event is run, or maybe use it to someday shut down the event? Those are rambling thoughts...there are no easy answers except to be more responsible for your stuff and mount a prevent offense against it.

[dragonfly Jafe]

Tancorix, I agree with you completely. I assume anything left out will be taken, so I only leave out those things (now) that I would be willing to gift to someone (some food, some beer, etc).

Stuart, yes, it is legal, but how would you prove that the person was actually engaged in theft when you used force on them? Your word against their's. This is what happened when I caught a slimeball attempting to steal our stereo in 2002 (from inside our shade structure!) while I was napping nearby. When it was obvious he was busted, and that my attitude was decidely unfriendly, he started the old "dude, I though this was MY camp, and that this was MY stereo. Man, I am SOO sorry!" When I called bullshit, he said "Dude, mellow out,. it was a mistake anyone could make". Ultimately I let him go with a stern warning (and much cussing). But if you WANTED to hold them for the cops, how would you make sure that the cops believed you? And not him/her?

[RingO'Fire]

Break the fucker's leg. If and when the cops show. Just say damn i was trying to hold him. Guess he tryed to hard to get away.

...If I caught someone walking with part of my project there is no way they could claim ignorance. If I should wintess this act I worry for myself and for that person. There is no way, after the money spent, the emotional investment and the labor that I would trust to remain under control.

they ought to be taken seriously and dealt with severely.

I concur gentlemen. I'll be providing "Instant Karma" to any thieves I catch trying to steal my shit. Of course, I'm always fairly cautious about securing all my belongings, so it would take a determined thief to get any of my stuff. However, if I do catch one, they'll be definately, not maybe, getting a facial "massage", a kick in the balls, a swift kick in the ass, or some such infliction of pain. I don't play around when people try to rip me off. Let the chips fall where they may.
Borrow this mutherfucker!

[stuart]

I gotta say Jafe, when you let that guy go you did us all a disservice. I can't thouroughly assuage your fears about not being able to convince LEO the guy was a thief but do know that they have far more experience in that department than you or I. Part of it goes to motive. What motive do you have to accuse a total stranger of theft? No cop is going to buy the lame excuse of 'I thought this was my camp and my stereo' and neither should you.

[dragonfly Jafe]

Stuart, I agree with you. I often reflect on how I could have handled it better. But I was still groggy after waking up (in fact, it was several minutes of hearing what I first thought was a camp mate rummaging around before I got up to investigate who it was). And once he put the stereo down he was walking away before I could think about it. And he was apologizing. At the time, I was confused, and unsure if maybe he WAS making an honest mistake. Once I woke up, and talked to neighbors who had lost cameras, laptops, etc. I realized that a stronger response was probably called for. I just don't think breaking bones to stop someone stealing from you is warranted. You may get away with it, but then again you may get sued/end up in jail yourself.

I think the thieves count on the environment to do there dirty deeds; People not really knowing their neighbors (I now make sure all my neighbors know me and visa-versa), everyone being gone the night of the burn, the general nature of chaos and loss-of-clarity that happens, fatigue, and most of all; knowing that even if they are caught red handed, that they can run/lie/cry/deny. Plus the fact that it would take some time (1-2 hours?) to find a LEO that would get involved, file a statement (hope you are not under the influence yourself), etc. I think most people would decline to go that route.

I carry handcuffs now. I have considered just locking the bastard up inside a portapotty after writing "I am a thief who was caught stealing" in permanent marker and calling it good. Call it performance art.

[stuart]

I carry handcuffs now. I have considered just locking the bastard up inside a portapotty after writing "I am a thief who was caught stealing" in permanent marker and calling it good. Call it performance art.

that's fabulous

so, what time of day was this? How big was your camp? What day was it?

[TheJudge]

Getting to know your neighbors is how you become part of a community. And by having a strong community it makes living in a place like Black Rock City that much easier.

[stuart]

that's all well and good, but what happens when the whole community abandons the warren for the big event.

[KellY]

Well, if you know your neighbors, no one can get away with the "I though I was in my own camp" excuse...

Personally, I'm enough of an idealist to be more upset by theft at the event than in the outside world, though of course it can be very traumatic there too, especially if your private space is actually broken into. Any thief I see, I basically would want to pound into the ground and leave for clean-up crew to find.

I can think of four types of thievery on the playa:

1) Joy-riding assholes who "borrow" bikes or other vehichles and abandon them when they're bored.

2) Idiots who think it would cool to have a "souvenier", like the fuck who stole part of the Lillipond installation a couple of years ago.

3) Irresponsible twits who don't bring supplies to sustain them for the event so steal from camps to survive (maybe forgivable in the case of the desperate poor in the outside world, but not by people who travel hundreds of miles to show up without any way of surviving).

4) The actual predators. Fact is, there are indeed people who show up to the event just because there are so many easy targets. Gate can't search every Uhaul leaving the city, after all.

Personally, I think some frontier justice would benefit the city as a whole - if word gets out that thieves get the shit beat out of them, maybe there'd be less of it. I'm not a big fan of our overharsh legal system in the rest of the U.S.A, but the event is different. You can't possibly be a "victim of society" at BRC because you have to go to so much trouble to get there, as opposed to just having the bad luck to of being born in the projects (for example). You can link shitty schools, lack of infrastructure, poverty, etc to crime in the mundane world quite credibly, but not at Burning Man. On the playa, a thief is always a complete selfish asshole.

The best thing to do is just pay attention, I suppose. My first year someone stole a bike I'd borrowed from a campmate while I was at the Thunderdome, in the middle of the afternoon. It was locked to itself, and when I came back it was gone. Whoever took it either cut the bolt right there, or picked it up and carried it away with him in broad daylight. I suppose he could have told anyone who asked that he just lost his key...but still it's annoying to consider.

Maybe the Gazzette could have a "lost" page. So if someone sees someone carrying a tricked out purple mountain bike over their shoulder, and then reads a bike of the same description is lost, they can let someone know. Just a thought.

Oh, and if you're bike was unlocked and you think someone just took it on a joyride, check the cafe. Bikes are left there all the time, and there are dozens and dozens by the end of the event.

[Sensei]

that's all well and good, but what happens when the whole community abandons the warren for the big event.

You find a sucker, like me, to stay home for the (first part of the) night. That's what we're doing in our 'hood. And last year, neighbors who were 300' deep in walk-in had someone walk right through their structure between 3 - 6 a.m; they had to step around four people sleeping on the floor to rip off a couple of cameras... This one really creeped us all out.

[RingO'Fire]

After posting earlier this afternoon that I would definately give someone an ass-beating for attempting to steal my stuff, I would like to clarify my actual feelings on the matter.

First off, thank you all for ignoring my half-cocked ealier post. After a great deal of thought and soul searching on the subject this afternoon and evening, my actual feelings on the subjects of theft, justice, and/or retribution are much more nuanced than the overly simplified, rather Neanderthal attitude I displayed earlier this afternoon

"Would I really kick someone's ass for attempting to steal my stuff?" I think, like Stuart, that I don't really know. It would depend upon several factors, I suppose, such as the value I placed upon the thing being stolen, the circumstances under which the thief was caught, the thief's response to being caught red-handed, etc.

For example, if I saw a guy riding around on my bike whom, after being confronted, handed it back (apologetically or not) is that worth an ass-whuppin? Most definately not. If you caught someone redhanded in the act of stealing your generator or expensive mountain bike, would that be worth beating up someone (and possibly getting hurt yourself)?
Maybe...maybe not. Again, I think the exact circumstances and the thief's attitude/demeanor would determine my response.

For stuff like bikes, chairs, blankets, generators, electronic equipment, art installation components, etc. what is worth fighting for? I mean which, if any, of this stuff is actually worth resorting to the intentional infliction of pain upon another human being (and the concurrent risk to your own well-being)?

There are limits of permissible/dismissable/easily forgivable behavior, the "Rules of Society" if you will. How do you handle willful transgressions of these Rules, such as someone stealing your belongings, at Burningman or otherwise?

I am a very forgiving person in general, and would much rather run off a thief and give them a lecture on their way out. That being said, there are some things that are worth fighting for. Of course there are the obvious motivations to fight, such as personal survival, protection of loved ones, defense of country, etc. Fighting to protect your belongings though? Would I "subdue" someone and hold them for the cops? Yes, definately, under the right circumstances, which I may not be able to define exactly now, but which I trust I would know all too well at that time.

Would I ever dish out a little "frontier justice" though? (no, not hanging - fisticuffs!) I think that for me, the answer to this question is, "Well, it depends...not unless I have to...but if it ever does come time to fight, I'll know it."

[unjonharley]

I don't know about being going whenit come to some one taking my stuff. My kid took my utility bike to the quie mart. wher it was stolen. An hour later i saw it in a park. A guy was standing a-stradle it making a drug deal. I just walked up on him. Slaped his head so hard it knocked him off the bike. He just got up and left holding his ear and whinning. I work to pay for my shit.

[calsur]

Fellow Eplians,

I have just two words for you all. Pepper spray. One quick spritz and the thief feels like he just got hit with a flamethrower. Eyes instantly are so teary they are useless. The nose runs harder than Niagara Falls but its his snot so his MOOP to clean up. Same for the portions of lung he will hack up and if he pukes it just means you did a good job. You can then reclaim your property and quietly stroll away.

If you should choose this option pick a pepper spray that also contains tear gas and does not contain a UV marker dye. About one percent of the people one the planet are immune to pepper spray or teargas. By using the combo it shrinks down to 0.01% who will be able to walk away.

I work as a surveyor and have had confrontations with 6 dogs (pit bulls and chows) and one owner over the past 2 years. The only different in what I use, pepper and teargas mix, is I use the one with the dye. It makes it easier for the cops to identify who I spritzed. Please note this. No matter how quick on and off the trigger you are you end up with dye on your hands.

As to Art theft stoning seems appropriate but impractical on the Playa. As to the rest I have no idea but to think security.

[Stormy]

I'm torn as to how to deal with catching a thief. Can understand the wanting to do something. Though I saw someone pounding the crap out of a guy for jumping on a cart attached to an art car and breaking it. It was horrifying to watch. Not exactly the same thing as theft, but still...

[Stormy]

As for stopping stolen property at the Gate, I've heard seasoned staff say they hate seeing a bunch of bikes leaving with just a few people, and have to wonder if they are being hauled for people not in the vehicle or stolen. Unfortunately there is no way to prove that something is stolen and Gate's only function is to prevent stow-a-ways. Sorry.

[Lydia Love]

Unfortunately there is no way to prove that something is stolen and Gate's only function is to prevent stow-a-ways. Sorry.

Well, that makes sense. I think it's unreasonalbe to expect that the Gate staff would be able to deal with the theft problem. Or the Rangers or the LEOs for that matter... the loss of your stuff is not their first priority. There is just so much else stuff going on.

I think the only solution is to take care of your own shit. If you can't afford to have it fucked up beyond repair or stolen, don't take it. If it has value to you... lock it up. Take a crappy bike and make it OUTRAGEOUSLY yours so you could recognize it from blocks away... and STILL lock it up.

It sucks, it really does. We all want this to be a community filled with people who will be good to each other. A realistic view, though, is that fuckers get themselves out there and they don't give a damn about your experience.

More than anything else it's the art theft that pisses me off. Those are gifts out there of money, energy and time. The artist makes that gift to everyone who might see it and experience it. The art thief steals not just from the artist but from every single one of us in one stupid, selfish act.

*Those* are the people I'd like to make eat rebar.

[dman]

These aren't definitive sources and I ain't no legal expert, but:

http://www.constitution.org/grossack/arrest.htm

http://www.prairielaw.com/articles/arti ... cleId=1329

http://oldweb.uwp.edu/academic/criminal ... tm#mtctcad

IIRC, detention (and using reasonable force to effect same) in the face of a serious offense is acceptable as long as it is accompanied by reasonably prompt notification of responsible authorities.

Transportation of the arrested person is not lawful, unless necessary to perform the detention and notification activities.

Detaining someone outside of the above and/or using force for your amusement or out of some sense of playa justice, while perhaps tantalizing (at least in the safety of this computer fantasy we are all enjoying while we prepare for the actual playa), is, well......

And be forwarned, placing someone under citizen's arrest also places you under some obligation as to their health & safety. So, when you call out for help and your playa neighbors (or other non-official LEOs) start to make vigilante-ish overtures, you can't just hand the arrested person over to them, either.

You just have to hope the LEO's and event staff would then "do the right thing".

[Tiara]

I tried reporting the bike theft to the rangers

Rangers are not responsible for protecting the personal property of people at the event. Quite honestly, there are more important things to do.

However, if you catch someone in the act of stealing something, and know a Ranger is nearby, that Ranger can use a radio to summon a LEO to assess the situation. The Law Enforcement Officer can arrest a thief.

In the process of getting to know your neighbors, which is an EXCELLENT idea, figure out where you neighborhood Ranger lives. We're scattered throughout the city camping with our friends and family. And a number of Rangers have radios available even when they're not officially on shift.

[Ron]

What to do if you catch a thief? My first rule is not to get hurt myself. As much as I like my bike I don't need to catch a bullet or eat a blade to keep it. My second rule is not to get in as much legal trouble as the thief may get in. That cuts out starting a physical fight. The law tends to give one good room for self defence, but none for starting a fight. Anger and bragging aside, even if he stole your crap, if you start the fight now you're as guilt of battery (depending on the local laws) as they are of theft. Bad move.

If you catch the theif in the act making some noise and letting them know they've been spotted is generally enough. I once broke up a house burglary simply by flushing the toilet. Never saw the thieves but when I came downstairs seeing all the electronics packed up in boxes was all the clue I needed.

So make noise, get allies, and keep your cool. Many years ago I was training in a martial arts school in a town of about 30K. One of the guys I trained with came out of a grocery store to see two guys loading his, and many other, bikes into the back of a pick up truck. He, like I, was in his teenage years and I'm sure most of us at that school would have plowed into the thieves like the young, dumb, and full of cum kids we were. But not my friend, nah, he was much smarter than that.

He used the parked cars for cover, snuck up to the pick up as the thieves got into it, and jumped onto the back bumper as they pulled away. Hidden by the tailgate he crouched on the bumper until they pulled into their house, and then slinked away, all without being seen. He then went to the closest pay phone and called the cops. Furthermore, he didn't even brag about it to us back at the school. The newspaper saw the police report and did a story on the even and that's how we found out about it. It was way cool, but not a strategy I'd recommend.

Anyway my real point is to suggest that starting a fight is never a good move. If you catch someone stealing your shit raise holy hell, draw lots of attention, be prepared to defend yourself, but don't start a fight....

Ron