About serving alchohol

Playa Mario · Post by **Playa Mario** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:23 am

So I'm trying to make a game involving the use of alcoholic beverages. I was wondering what preparations I would have to have to be able to serve alcohol to other burners. What laws, regulations, and processes should i follow to avoid getting fined and arrested?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:30 am

Don't serve to anyone under 21.
Make them use their own cups. If you have the money and desire, you can give them souvineer cups.
Wash your bar untensils with the whole bleach three pan sterilization procudes. Be prepared to pass inspection with the health department.
Have an ice scoop and be sure to keep it outside your ice chest.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:22 pm

Learn the 3 questions below and apply them religiously.

(1) Are you twenty-one years of age or over?

(2) Is it legal for you to consume alcohol in the state of Nevada?

(3) Who was the better Soviet Leader - Gorbachev, Kruschev, or Stalin?

OK, you don't have to ask the last one, but the first 2 put the onus legally on the drinker, not on you. They MUST answer Yes - no hem, no haw - or they do not drink. You DO NOT offer ANY alcohol or get to that point without the questions being answered.

Additionally, if they appear intoxicated, DO NOT serve them, even IF they answer the 2 questions correctly - it is YOUR responsibility to refuse to supply alcohol to someone visibly impaired, even at Burning Man.

thisisthatwhichis · Post by **thisisthatwhichis** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:56 pm

*smooches BBSUE and Cryptofishist*..... Cause I haven't in a while.........

Well said!

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:26 pm

There is a fine line between being a camp "serving" alcohol as a bar, and being a camp with several games and activities going on and simply has refreshments for its guests.

We post signs that say: No one under 21 allowed, ID required not only because of alcohol, but because of our sexual/sensual nature.

But we do not have bottles of booze in plain sight and have an atmosphere more like a party at a private residence. We do not mix drinks per order of the recipient and we do not serve anything with ice. If they don't have their own cup, they don't get a drink. We can refill their water bottle or hand them an unopened gatorade. Anything offered in its original sealed packaging is not as aptly called into question. If they do not like what we have, then it is a gift refused from our perspective.

But legally speaking, our camp is nothing more than a party at a private residence that happens to be parked on gov't land. The cleaning of our "appendages" is done in the presence of the "recipient" before and after use. Our practices have been observed by authorities without a single inquiry.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:01 pm

Trishntek wrote:We post signs that say: No one under 21 allowed, ID required not only because of alcohol, but because of our sexual/sensual nature.

Sound's like advertisement to me!

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:04 pm

Maybe I can express it in a clearer manner,,,,

Anyone entering our camp is basically screened at the entrance. It is certainly our prerogative who enters and who does not enter. Quite frankly, it is by invitation only, which makes it a private affair.

They enter with the impression we have games and sensual activities.

Refreshment is offered at our discretion and is not the purpose of our camp. It is a matter of hospitality. Underage drinking is an issue no matter what. The fine line is whether you are serving mixed spirits on the rocks to patrons or simply offering refreshment to your guest.

The difference is what we have in this container or that container is our drink. We already possess it as our own and mixed for our own use. Like giving your friend a sip of whatever you are having. That's a lot different than serving drinks to order.

MyPlayaUserName · Post by **MyPlayaUserName** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:24 pm

getting carded on the playa in 2010 freaked me out. I was 24 and it was my fourth burn and yet it was the only burn i've ever been carded at.

I already feel like one of those 'back in the day, burning man was better" people. 2011 is gonna prove me wrong!

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:34 am

Bartenders need to watch their asses on the playa! I'm always careful.

If an underage vet from Iraq or Afghanistan comes by what would you do?

Bluemandrew · Post by **Bluemandrew** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:38 am

TomServo wrote:If an underage vet from Iraq or Afghanistan comes by what would you do?

Deny him/her a drink naturally.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:41 am

TomServo wrote:If an underage vet from Iraq or Afghanistan comes by what would you do?

Offer him or her the best of whatever I have in the bar. This person was exposing his or her ass to bullets, IEDs, grenades. I can expose my ass to a little fine.

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:45 am

Teo del Fuego wrote:
TomServo wrote:If an underage vet from Iraq or Afghanistan comes by what would you do?
Offer him or her the best of whatever I have in the bar. This person was exposing his or her ass to bullets, IEDs, grenades. I can expose my ass to a little fine.

hear hear! and so would i - in fact any member of any armed forces or emergency services would get my last drink regardless of age

lucky420 · Post by **lucky420** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:03 am

Being carded is a rite of passage...

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:45 am

Last year a woman walked into BDC&WB and asked for a glass of wine. I asked for her I.D. She didn't have one and then confessed: "I turn 21 tomorrow!" To which I replied, "Then come back tomorrow." When somebody admits they're not 21, they can't be too upset if they don't get served. And from my perspective, what better way to entrap someone than to have somebody try to get a drink who admittedly is not of age.

She never came back.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:19 am

lucky420 wrote:Being carded is a rite of passage...

Now there's a theme camp bar: Tonight is Your 21st Birthday Bar!

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:38 am

LOL AntiM
The funny part is ...do you know how many of us old farts would show up, to re-do our 21's!

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:13 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:Last year a woman walked into BDC&WB and asked for a glass of wine. I asked for her I.D. She didn't have one and then confessed: "I turn 21 tomorrow!" To which I replied, "Then come back tomorrow." When somebody admits they're not 21, they can't be too upset if they don't get served. And from my perspective, what better way to entrap someone than to have somebody try to get a drink who admittedly is not of age.

She never came back.

Of course not... you already denied her the illegal drink, and her coworkers from writing you up (and maybe closing you down). She couldn't use the same ruse the next day... would have blown her cover.

That's the problem with having a "legend" like the BDC&WB... (same with the Kantina I found out)... they want to score a "high-profile" hit on places like ours. (I had a few who were wafflers, or made it obvious they were not 21.

Fine little girl she scammin' me
Me servin the booze, for all to see
I workin the bar, all alone
You under 21, you better go home...

Fuzzy Fuzzy, hey hey, you gotta go.

Three nights on de playa, all the tail I see
Me turnin away minors, constantly
Ask me for booze, to my bar they go,
You ask them the questions, and they say no...

Fuzzy Fuzzy, hey hey, you gotta go.
Go go go go go go
Fuzzy Fuzzy, hey hey, you gotta go

Me see the desert moon high above
They keep on trying, I show them no love
Me catch them in their shit, over and over and then
I tell her she never better come in here again

Fuzzy Fuzzy, hey hey, you gotta go.
Entrap entrap entrap entrap entrap
Fuzzy Fuzzy, hey hey, you gotta go.
----

Oh yeah... about the Afghanastan vets? I *did* have a couple walk in, ask for drinks, and we did vodka shots until the wee hours when ABear spelled me (so I could go pass out!)... It was an honor to serve them.

(Of course, they also showed me the "proper" way to do vodka shots... ;) )

MissK_LJ · Post by **MissK_LJ** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:23 pm

Even if they are over 21, you can get fined for not ASKING if they look really young and MIGHT not be of age! (You can probably fight it, but is it really worth it?)

If they look under 30, INSIST upon ID. No matter the sob story. Seriously. Hair of The Dog bar got two fines last year for not carding. They were approached at least one other time, while I sat at the bar. He was turned away, and his parting comment was, "It's a good thing you didn't serve me. I'm a cop." Then he was just GONE.

At $1500 a pop, that fine can ruin a perfectly good burn.
-Kim

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:55 pm

Yow shit ouch, Kim! I didn't hear about that...

No doubt about it, they're egtting nastier out there. Prolly practicing for the day they can lord over a police state on us burners now. Yuck.

- - - - -

I don't know why I didn't think about this before, but if I can make a suggestion...

Here in Sac county (it may be California, I'm not sure) you have to go thru a class to be a person who sells/serves alcohol at a licensed estrablishment. I took the class years ago; it was one of the best things I could have done.

See if your county health or state does this - it may cost a bit (I think with the cert it was $50) but the education, if you plan on serving booze, is priceless.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:13 pm

AntiM wrote:
lucky420 wrote:Being carded is a rite of passage...
Now there's a theme camp bar: Tonight is Your 21st Birthday Bar!

Or 18th birthday, but that would be another rite.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:27 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:
TomServo wrote:If an underage vet from Iraq or Afghanistan comes by what would you do?
Offer him or her the best of whatever I have in the bar. This person was exposing his or her ass to bullets, IEDs, grenades. I can expose my ass to a little fine.

I agree. If your old enough to risk your life for our country...or government...depending on your political leaning.....youre old enough to destroy your liver! Maybe a loophole in the laws is needed?

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:38 pm

That argument was made and tested in the '70's. Nam vets too young to drink. Age was dropped to 18 and some states kept it at 21. We were lucky enough to live near Yellowstone Park. Federal law ruled there while it was still 19 in the rest of Wyoming. It didn't last long, as I recall. Maybe by '80 it was back to 21. Too many highway deaths or some such thing.

The voting age was also dropped to 18 back then from 21. For some reason the voting age remained the same at 18 while the drinking age returned to former value.

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:38 am

when I was in college, Utah had 21 and Wyoming 18. There were indeed many deaths coming down the canyons on I-80. I'd love to compare that with the current rate for deaths while or incident to texting.

BBadger · Post by **BBadger** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:02 am

TomServo wrote:I agree. If you're old enough to risk your life for our country...or government...depending on your political leaning.....youre old enough to destroy your liver! Maybe a loophole in the laws is needed?

Just because your nation's laws allow you to fight in your armed services at a certain age doesn't mean your body is mature enough to handle the effects of alcohol, or that your mind is either. By that logic you could say that if you're old enough to vote or drive you're mature enough to drink. Those are all society-imposed standards, and even if they weren't, nothing implies that they should be extended to drinking.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:07 am

BBadger wrote:Just because your nation's laws allow you to fight in your armed services at a certain age doesn't mean your body is mature enough to handle the effects of alcohol, or that your mind is either.

Thanks Mom!

BBadger · Post by **BBadger** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:55 am

Teo del Fuego wrote:
BBadger wrote:Just because your nation's laws allow you to fight in your armed services at a certain age doesn't mean your body is mature enough to handle the effects of alcohol, or that your mind is either.
Thanks Mom!

The difference between your mom and I is that it's not out of any concern for the kid's health that I make those statements. By all means, drink up at any age if you're in the privacy of your own home, away from everyone else. No police to cramp your style either. I just don't relish the idea of drunk kids everywhere. It's not to say "adults" are much better, but hey, you have to set a threshold somewhere. I kind of doubt the laws were really made for physical health reasons either.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:28 am

I hardly think that serving alcohol to a 20 year old man who has fought for our country overseas will cause any disruption to anyone's burn. It is possible to drink without getting drunk. Most of the men and women I know who have served in the military are much more mature and responsible than those who have not had the experience.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:36 am

AntiM wrote:when I was in college, Utah had 21 and Wyoming 18. There were indeed many deaths coming down the canyons on I-80. I'd love to compare that with the current rate for deaths while or incident to texting.

Thanks AntiM, when I wrote 19 for Wyoming, I couldn't actually recall. But there was a time, and maybe it was before Wyoming actually dropped their age, when we could legally drink in the Nat'l Parks but not in the rest of the state.

LostinReno · Post by **LostinReno** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:26 pm

The po-po gets off big time here for serving minors. It's been going on for years, if you look young enough to be carded be grateful, it won't last forever!!

If you look older and need an esteem boost, go to Terrible's, they card everybody.

These were the poeple that got busted just this week. Can't believe the fine in Sparks is so much cheaper than Pershing County?WTF?
http://www.rgj.com/article/20110131/NEW ... to+a+minor

Playa Mario · Post by **Playa Mario** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:33 am

So gist is that I need the "we card" sign up. And we need to card anyone who sits down at the game.

We are not a bar, so to drink you need to be playing the game. Don't serve anything with rice (like sake?) So that would mean that other liquors that don't require refrigeration can be used on the game. I should require that you need your own cup to play so it can be filled with a shot at regular intervals.

If I get a breathalyzer, what would be the too drunk limit?

About serving alchohol

About serving alchohol

ALWAYS ask for ID