gross ebay post

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:25 am

curiousgnate wrote:JSTEP- you are amazing. i have not seen a virgin "get it" like you in a long time. "great burner virgin shall be!" Kevin doesn't get it no matter how hard he "tries." I say don't help him improve his ad on ebay at all. that last sentence says so many things in and of itself. I myself love that he had to remove his personal phone number from the original ad. no matter how one looks at this situation there is no way that it can be justified within the confines of the ten principles. some just get rid of the principles, but some embrace them. I am one who embraces them and while definitely not perfect strive to apply them to my daily life. I am glad that I have regional burns that I can attend where this kind of shit is not even an issue. I still love the "big one" and will continue going until i get too jaded. My favorite part of the burn is meeting new exciting open minded people who are there to participate(not spectate) and are radically self-reliant (don't have servants) and can soak the whole deal in. I have as said before met rich people at burningman many times, and most I have enjoyed spending time with, but most were there doing and not spectating. they set up their own camps, cooked their own food, and cleaned up after themselves. I am not burnier than thou! I am a burner!

LOL, thanks. I am not too keen to think that I really GET IT until I've DONE IT, but I appreciate your sentiments.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:30 am

well i did, LLQ

and i think the point is that since you have not as yet attended (i know, you got your ticket) that it is difficult to accept any opinions of Burning Man from you until you have experienced it.

After the Burn, you can make informed critiques of procedures, people, the festival, the art, the LEOS, whatever your heart desires, and most of the e-playans will respect that you have the right to that opinion, even if they disagree...as it stands now, you don't have that right, as far as BM goes, because you are an Auslander as of this moment.

i've been going since 96' and believe me, if i were to tell you i understand Burning Man, i would be a fool, or worse. I do have some insight based on what little i can remember, so, with the notion that with practice and repeated mistakes eventually things get easier, come to the burn, do what you're gonna do, then get back to us on tuesday after you get 'home' and i have a sneaking suspicion that the glow will not have worn off, especially for a newb, and that you'll already be planning for the next year...(also known as second-year meglocampia)

now is the time to just relax, you bought the ticket, the ride will start soon enough.

LLQchasm · Post by **LLQchasm** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:30 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:well i did, LLQ

and i think the point is that since you have not as yet attended (i know, you got your ticket) that it is difficult to accept any opinions of Burning Man from you until you have experienced it.

After the Burn, you can make informed critiques of procedures, people, the festival, the art, the LEOS, whatever your heart desires, and most of the e-playans will respect that you have the right to that opinion, even if they disagree...as it stands now, you don't have that right, as far as BM goes, because you are an Auslander as of this moment.

i've been going since 96' and believe me, if i were to tell you i understand Burning Man, i would be a fool, or worse. I do have some insight based on what little i can remember, so, with the notion that with practice and repeated mistakes eventually things get easier, come to the burn, do what you're gonna do, then get back to us on tuesday after you get 'home' and i have a sneaking suspicion that the glow will not have worn off, especially for a newb, and that you'll already be planning for the next year...(also known as second-year meglocampia)

now is the time to just relax, you bought the ticket, the ride will start soon enough.

LLQchasm = LLC Qhasm

Post by **Eric** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:06 pm

Simon is dead on- I encourage virgins to come on eplaya & participate, learn & get assistance; but when anybody, especially a virgin, starts deciding whether or not someone else "gets it" I, for one, start ignoring you. You don't have any reality to base that opinion on, and honestly there is no single "it" to get.

Simons "it" includes techno and dancing, mine doesn't.

BBSue's "it" includes running a bar, mine doesn't.

Jellyfish's "it" includes amazing pieces of playa art, mine doesn't.

One of my best friends "it" involves hours at the spiritual camps, which I loath.

Another friend is out to see how often they can get laid while partying & looking fabulous. That's their "it"

My "it" includes writing for and editing a paper about the playa, which probably isn't something a lot of others share.

Some people do it sober, some do it drunk. Some sleep all day, others only go out during the day.

The day we are all required to experience the event in the same way is the day it dies.

edit: weird formatting

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:13 pm

Eric wrote:Simon is dead on- I encourage virgins to come on eplaya & participate, learn & get assistance; but when anybody, especially a virgin, starts deciding whether or not someone else "gets it" I, for one, start ignoring you. You don't have any reality to base that opinion on, and honestly there is no single "it" to get.

Simons "it" includes techno and dancing, mine doesn't.

BBSue's "it" includes running a bar, mine doesn't.

Jellyfish's "it" includes amazing pieces of playa art, mine doesn't.

One of my best friends "it" involves hours at the spiritual camps, which I loath.

Another friend is out to see how often they can get laid while partying & looking fabulous. That's their "it"

My "it" includes writing for and editing a paper about the playa, which probably isn't something a lot of others share.

Some people do it sober, some do it drunk. Some sleep all day, others only go out during the day.

The day we are all required to experience the event in the same way is the day it dies.
[/b]

yes, well put....god forbid y'all see it my way, there would be less sparkle ponies for me.

and the day you catch me in center camp doing anything resembling yoga, put a bullet thru my third eye.

now, i'll leave you be, i have to remove some nasty gall stones so i'm going to go sit on the sub-woofers for an hour while Sander Van Doorn sonically removes them.

thebeat.thebeat.thebeat.thebeat.

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:50 pm

Great posts! Not sure how the are supposed to relate to exploiting the event for personal profit, but good posts none the less!

sacramentogames · Post by **sacramentogames** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:54 pm

[quote="JStep"]Great posts! Not sure how the are supposed to relate to exploiting the event for personal profit, but good posts none the less![/quote

I'm sure this will become your favorite link.

http://www.burningman.com/blackrockcity ... d_busi.php

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:01 pm

sacramentogames wrote:
JStep wrote:Great posts! Not sure how the are supposed to relate to exploiting the event for personal profit, but good posts none the less!
I'm sure this will become your favorite link.

http://www.burningman.com/blackrockcity ... d_busi.php

I don't suppose anybody on that page is giving everything away for free, are they?

OMG Commodification.

JK

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:08 pm

The thing that makes Burning man Burning man is you can be yourself and not be judged.

Pure, Pollyanna BS. You can be yourself during the event and be tolerated much, more more than in Defaultia but to actually think that you - or anyone else - is somehow able to conveniently shut off their internal filtering of others is, well, silly.

sacramentogames · Post by **sacramentogames** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:24 pm

I just went to one of the RV facilities that Borg recommends and it was $16,000 to rent an RV plus fuel and cleaning. This RV will have to travel 475 miles in each direction to BM. I guess the package I offer isn't such a bad deal after all.

http://www.usarvrentals.com/

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:27 pm

sacramentogames wrote:
JStep wrote:Great posts! Not sure how the are supposed to relate to exploiting the event for personal profit, but good posts none the less![/quote

I'm sure this will become your favorite link.

http://www.burningman.com/blackrockcity ... d_busi.php

SNAP

Mojojita · Post by **Mojojita** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:44 pm

Eric wrote:Simon is dead on- I encourage virgins to come on eplaya & participate, learn & get assistance; but when anybody, especially a virgin, starts deciding whether or not someone else "gets it" I, for one, start ignoring you. You don't have any reality to base that opinion on, and honestly there is no single "it" to get.

Simons "it" includes techno and dancing, mine doesn't.

BBSue's "it" includes running a bar, mine doesn't.

Jellyfish's "it" includes amazing pieces of playa art, mine doesn't.

One of my best friends "it" involves hours at the spiritual camps, which I loath.

Another friend is out to see how often they can get laid while partying & looking fabulous. That's their "it"

My "it" includes writing for and editing a paper about the playa, which probably isn't something a lot of others share.

Some people do it sober, some do it drunk. Some sleep all day, others only go out during the day.

The day we are all required to experience the event in the same way is the day it dies.

edit: weird formatting

Very well said and it makes a further point - each of these examples has to do with participation. It makes no difference to me if someone pays for someone else to set up their camp, cook their food, etc.... after all, many camps have camp dues that are used for a wide variety of things. What does matter to me is how the buyers intend to interact with the community. All this does is limit their ability to participate via planning, buying for, building and running their camp. There are many other ways to participate, and like art, I don't think we get to judge if one person's participation is more valuable than anothers'. Years ago when people would ask me about Burning Man, I could say, "Imagine a place where everyone there is there to, in some way, entertain one another". To me, that is what makes the difference between a participant and a spectator. Bringing in virgins to participate, great. Bringing in virgins to spectate, not so much. The hard work and creativity needed for many of us just to get ourselves there and survive for a week is a big part of the art for us. So maybe it would be very important to help your buyers find a way to participate and contribute artistically.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:46 pm

When you try to rent this late in the year...

Post by **Eric** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:56 pm

JStep wrote:Great posts! Not sure how the are supposed to relate to exploiting the event for personal profit, but good posts none the less!

Please tell that to Trader Joes, Walmart, Cool-Neon, In-Ticket, Home Depot, Target, REI, every grocery store in Reno, probably every single RV dealership in California and Nevada near a major city.....

Seriously. They are all making money of the event, and some of them even run promotions for "Desert Camping" or some-such right around Labor Day. We're a market. Doesn't matter if you like that or not, it's a fact.

Kevin is far from the first person to do this, just look at the walled off "gated communities" of RV's you see- quite a few of those are similar deals. At least he is making an attempt to actually introduce his customers to the event in an interactive way as opposed to just as spectators.

Yes, I have talked to him off of eplaya, yes we are going to meet. He's got a lot of enthusiasm for the event, as much as any other Burner I've talked to, and he sees a niche to fill with his services.

It. Has. Already. Happened.

It. Is. Already. There.

Like I said earlier- would you rather try to make these people Burners, or do you want to just bitch to feel superior while it happens anyway.

No matter how much you don't like it.

jonwells · Post by **jonwells** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:56 pm

is that what those gated off areas are? RV communities? i had wondered that.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:05 pm

Isotopia wrote:
The thing that makes Burning man Burning man is you can be yourself and not be judged.
Pure, Pollyanna BS. You can be yourself during the event and be tolerated much, more more than in Defaultia but to actually think that you - or anyone else - is somehow able to conveniently shut off their internal filtering of others is, well, silly.

On a serious note, that's actually one of the main reasons I keep going back to burning man. It's really difficult to try and truly be nonjudgemental for the entire week. But hopefully, practice makes easier.

JK

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:21 pm

Eric wrote:
JStep wrote:Great posts! Not sure how the are supposed to relate to exploiting the event for personal profit, but good posts none the less!
Please tell that to Trader Joes, Walmart, Cool-Neon, In-Ticket, Home Depot, Target, REI, every grocery store in Reno, probably every single RV dealership in California and Nevada near a major city.....

Ok you (and others) read way more into my emotional state than is really there, for one. And for another, I have yet to see a packaged tour of burning man, effort free and servants provided, from Wallmart, Trader Joes or any of the other retailers you listed that INCIDENTALLY make money from people who HAPPEN to shop there.

The illogic of the replies I'm getting is astounding. All I'm saying is that pre-packaging a work-and-effort-free tour with servants provided and contractually obligated gifting and MOOPing is NOT what the spirit of the event and the principles are about.

These smoke screen over-reaching stretching-till-it-breaks arguments are repeating the same thing over and over not still not making any sense. I never said using an RV is wrong, or paying money for services, or any of the other straw men flying around here.

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:24 pm

sacramentogames wrote:
JStep wrote:Great posts! Not sure how the are supposed to relate to exploiting the event for personal profit, but good posts none the less![/quote

I'm sure this will become your favorite link.

http://www.burningman.com/blackrockcity ... d_busi.php

Seriously? You think that link has anything to do with what you're doing? I have read that page before and don't recall a single business on there that's DIRECTLY EXPLOITING THE EVENT ITSELF.

You guys don;t get it, I give up.

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:27 pm

Do a search for Green Tortoise. They've run a tour to burning man for years. And there is even a day trip for locals to buy. It's interesting to see the bus load of tourists looking out the windows like they're on a safari in Africa or something.

JK

sacramentogames · Post by **sacramentogames** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:47 pm

jkisha wrote:Do a search for Green Tortoise. They've run a tour to burning man for years. And there is even a day trip for locals to buy. It's interesting to see the bus load of tourists looking out the windows like they're on a safari in Africa or something.

JK

http://www.greentortoise.com/adventures ... tival.html

Major Krash · Post by **Major Krash** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:53 pm

sacramentogames wrote:
jkisha wrote:Do a search for Green Tortoise. They've run a tour to burning man for years. And there is even a day trip for locals to buy. It's interesting to see the bus load of tourists looking out the windows like they're on a safari in Africa or something.

JK

http://www.greentortoise.com/adventures ... tival.html

...yeah, that is kind of creepy to see go by...I believe the Org's position is that these folks are influential in making Local policy, and therefore helping to decide the Event's Future (for good or bad). The better the understand the "Truth" of Burning Man, the better they can make an informed decision (which is more likely to benefit Burning Man than hurt it). Or some such.

LLQchasm · Post by **LLQchasm** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:23 pm

jkisha wrote:Do a search for Green Tortoise. They've run a tour to burning man for years. And there is even a day trip for locals to buy. It's interesting to see the bus load of tourists looking out the windows like they're on a safari in Africa or something.

JK

LOL! Gee, I wonder where he got that idea?

sacramentogames · Post by **sacramentogames** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:33 pm

LLQchasm wrote:
jkisha wrote:Do a search for Green Tortoise. They've run a tour to burning man for years. And there is even a day trip for locals to buy. It's interesting to see the bus load of tourists looking out the windows like they're on a safari in Africa or something.

JK
LOL! Gee, I wonder where he got that idea?

They had this idea way before I did. Maybe you should call them and tell them how Burning Man should be experienced. You do seem to have lots of experience. While you are at it, you should be able to give them lots of business advise.

Post by **Eric** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:03 pm

JStep wrote:You guys don;t get it, I give up.

Okay, I've said this so often in this thread I'm starting to feel like a crazy old man about this: these packages have been occurring for years. They are already there.

I "get" that someone is selling a packaged tour of Burning Man. I get that it rubs you and others the wrong way.

Getting rubbed the wrong way doesn't change the fact that it's been happening for years, and that its legal & can't be stopped, no matter how much people puff up their cheeks and stand looking all pissy with their hands on their hips.

Again- are you going to waste your time trying to stop something that's already a part of the culture, for better or worse, or are you going to try to figure out how to make it work with the culture you want to see.

Trying to stop this sort of package is as futile as trying to stop the Weekenders. It just isn't going to happen. I see everyone bitching about the weekenders, how many try to reach out & teach them the ropes? Same thing applies here.

LLQchasm · Post by **LLQchasm** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:04 pm

sacramentogames wrote:
LLQchasm wrote:
jkisha wrote:Do a search for Green Tortoise. They've run a tour to burning man for years. And there is even a day trip for locals to buy. It's interesting to see the bus load of tourists looking out the windows like they're on a safari in Africa or something.

JK
LOL! Gee, I wonder where he got that idea?
They had this idea way before I did. Maybe you should call them and tell them how Burning Man should be experienced. You do seem to have lots of experience. While you are at it, you should be able to give them lots of business advise.

I was referring to the African Safari metaphor, not the Green Tortoise. I don't know anything about burning man, but I am a business owner in Nevada with the inside scoop on a lot of shit the public never gets to see. You'd be shocked

if you knew who you were talking to.

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:20 pm

Eric wrote:
JStep wrote:You guys don;t get it, I give up.
Okay, I've said this so often in this thread I'm starting to feel like a crazy old man about this: these packages have been occurring for years. They are already there.

I "get" that someone is selling a packaged tour of Burning Man. I get that it rubs you and others the wrong way.

Getting rubbed the wrong way doesn't change the fact that it's been happening for years, and that its legal & can't be stopped, no matter how much people puff up their cheeks and stand looking all pissy with their hands on their hips.

Again- are you going to waste your time trying to stop something that's already a part of the culture, for better or worse, or are you going to try to figure out how to make it work with the culture you want to see.

Trying to stop this sort of package is as futile as trying to stop the Weekenders. It just isn't going to happen. I see everyone bitching about the weekenders, how many try to reach out & teach them the ropes? Same thing applies here.

You're still missing the point. The fact that people have been exploiting it for years does not in any way justify it or make it a noble endeavor. I'm not trying to stop anyone from doing anything, I'm simply pointing out the ways that it doesn't make sense in the context of the event, degrades the intent of the event, and is a crass and commercialized exercise.

To try to obfuscate by saying Wallmart makes money from people shopping there on their way to the desert or saying my pointing this out is somehow dictating to others how to enjoy BM is nothing but desperation. You want to enable and support these endeavors, fine. But don't try to confuse the issues or paint me as somehow burnier than thou for simply pointing out what seems obvious if you read about BM for a scant 20 minutes.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:34 pm

LLQchasm wrote:You'd be shocked :shock: if you knew who you were talking to.

Meh.

sacramentogames · Post by **sacramentogames** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:01 pm

Jstep, we don't see eye to eye, so why are we both still chasing our tails?

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:13 pm

sacramentogames wrote:Jstep, we don't see eye to eye, so why are we both still chasing our tails?

Speak for yourself, Kimosabe. I'm not chasing anything, the point I've made and explicitly repeated is echoed by more than a few. To your dubious credit, you at least don't try to justify it, unlike others. You simply stick to the idea and try to think of ways to make it more appealing or less offensive.

Whatever. This is ePlaya and none of it really matters.

chrisweitz · Post by **chrisweitz** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:41 pm

Dude, PLEASE don't do this.

I feel badly for your potential clients. They are going to take a lot of shit and be unhappy. That will rebound on you. It's not their fault that they haven't a clue. But they will be very disappointed in the service you are offering them.

I feel offended that you are profiting off of this event. I don't care if you're not "getting rich". You're trying to make money off of something people do for love and an event/place which is one of the FEW FUCKING THINGS IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD by which people are not trying to make money off of other people.

Fine, others are organizing this kind of charade and only you have had the poor taste/sense to publicly advertise. They're wrong too.

My camp spends a lot of time, effort and, yes, money to give an experience to people, free of charge. What you are doing is the opposite. What you are doing is totally against the spirit of Burning Man, and will deny your clients the chance to begin to understand what the hell is going on there.

In the past, the only people we have had to escort from our premises are underage drinkers and gropers. If it were up to me, I would advise you to tell your clients to hide their origins. (Mind you, I suspect the rest of my camp would try to win them over with love and cocktails and a gentle bit of education about why they chose the most FUCKED UP possible way to come to the Burn. So what can I do).

And while we're at it, PLEASE don't bring 1000's of "gifts" to give away. They are just going to litter the Playa, and I would rather not clean them up.

Please consider strongly revising your plans to profit on this event.

Yours,

Chris
Head Concierge
The Grand Hotel at Ashram Galactica
Still Black Rock's only free luxury accomodations

gross ebay post

hmmmmm

Oh God Sacramentogames