Guns, Love Em or Leave Em

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:59 am

i find this thread very interesting you see i have been involved with guns from a very young age.
My father had a gun licence in the uk and i used to go target shooting with him frequently he taught me all kinds of gun safety and respect for them.
In the uk when they arent in use they have to be locked away unloaded.
you have to register what guns you own and have on them on your licence. My dad had four (or five i forget exactly) pistols and a couple of rifles. he did 22 years in the royal marines so he knew his stuff
Then he emigrated to nevada- no restrictions whatsoever (well once you have a permit which requires the sherrif to give it to you. As i understand it you have to be resident for 30 days (they went on a 31 day holiday before emigrating so guess what he got one)
when i went to my mothers house there where 44 pistols in the house and about 2o rifles a shotgun and an outrageous amounty of ammo
the Reason i went to nevada well my firearm experinced Father a practicing catholic shot himself his last words where i cant do this anymore.
if he had to keep his guns locked away when not in use instead of well anywhere he wante d to put them he wouldnt have been able to just pick up a loaded gun and blow his own brains out.
So in summary yea private gun ownership good, lots to be said for it. No control on safety well thats not so good.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:08 am

Sorry about your Dad.
Have known many who have done the same thing.

But
I find it a bit naive to think that if he had just kept them away that it would have prevented anything.

a firearm is a chunck of metal.
depression, suicide, it caused by a mental illness.
more firearm laws don't fix it.

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:17 am

i'm not saying it would of stopped it, just may be it would have made it take a bit more time to actually do it. You know get up unlock the cabinet load it etc.
I am still pro gun in spite of that little tale (though it did fuck me up big time for years as ther is more to the story than that) in fact reading this thread i am actually more pro gun ownership as i had never considered the unarmed population aspect before. If your goverment does want to fuck you over its a bit more difficult if you can fight back. the legislation introduced usually is the wrong kind anyway trying to ban certain types of firearm or whatever.
I was frankly amazed when i got to nevada i was driving past a casino and saw a real live cowboy stetson six gun on his hip and winchester over his shoulder and everything. but when i was walking around my the house helping clear things up there where at least 6 pistols just laying on the side loaded and ready to go. which to my mind was just bloody dangerous.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:33 am

A terrible thing.
Suicide on a whim is unusual though.
There is usually a long and determined process leading up to it.

I think more familiarity with the results of a gunshot would discourage most people from considering using a weapon for suicide, but not all.
The results of unsuccessful attempts should give anyone pause for thought though.

It would also stop most of the wildly optimistic wishful thinking that there are easy alternatives to dealing with armed opponents.
For this reason, I think the current trend toward more censorship of news encourages violence.

Most suicides in this well armed country are single car accidents.

I wish there were better ways to stop long term depression.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:51 am

graidawg wrote:I was frankly amazed when i got to nevada i was driving past a casino and saw a real live cowboy stetson six gun on his hip and winchester over his shoulder and everything. but when i was walking around my the house helping clear things up there where at least 6 pistols just laying on the side loaded and ready to go. which to my mind was just bloody dangerous.

It might seem so when you aren't used to it, but it really depends on the people around, and their behavior.

It also matters a great deal what type of gun it is and what state of 'ready' it is in.
There is a huge difference in a loaded and chambered weapon and one that is unloaded, but has a full magazine.
Double action only guns require far more effort to fire even when ready to fire, compared to a single action.
Some require enough knowledge that someone inexperienced may be unable to fire them.
This even happened to an old west gunfighter who was killed with a loaded gun in his hand, that he was unable to figure out how to operate.
It was unfamiliar to him.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:40 am

Was thinking back to the first time I ever lost a friend to suicide.

Was about 19, a kid I had grown up with hung himself.
Found out later he was gay. Didn't know it when we where in school.

Over the years have lost many friends though, various ways.

Some where along the way realized it doesn't matter, how they died.

It is a real shame to lose them to depression and mental illnesses though.

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:48 am

i didnt mean to hijack this thread to suicide, it was just my point referring to how no gun control can lead to unexpected places. having seen both sides of gun lcerncing and registration.
yea i understand about different states of readiness the one gun i wanted to bring back from nevada was my dads remington army which was so fucked it was totally unsafe to fire- but was lovely gun with many fond memories for me

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:55 am

LOL

Don't worry about it,

hijacking theads is an

ohhhhhhh look at the blinky lights........

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:13 am

where where i want to see them !

oo look its full of stars. . . . . . . . . .

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:30 am

come on over to Da Bar......
we always have something leading us adrift over there.

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:35 am

i am buying my ticket monday, once i actually have a ticket im going to be going crazy and really really want to contribute something to burningman so i'm looking for something to do when iget there that will fit around my total freaking out losing the plot and general fuckheadedness, so yea i will try find your bar and offer a few hours of my precious time to . . . . . er do something

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:38 am

Fuck your a Birgin....
Wander around lost in total amazement.
That is all that is basically expected of you.

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:46 am

goathead wrote:Fuck your a Birgin....
Wander around lost in total amazement.
That is all that is basically expected of you.

sorry to disapoint but well sorry.
i think i will want a bit more than just wandering round in total amazement though and well ive been reading about this for nearly 10 years now so well apart from the meltdown i am expecting about 3 times before i even get there i know after about 2 days i will want to do something helpful

MyDearFriend · Post by **MyDearFriend** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:10 am

graidawg wrote:
goathead wrote:Fuck your a Birgin....
Wander around lost in total amazement.
That is all that is basically expected of you.

sorry to disapoint but well sorry.
i think i will want a bit more than just wandering round in total amazement though and well ive been reading about this for nearly 10 years now so well apart from the meltdown i am expecting about 3 times before i even get there i know after about 2 days i will want to do something helpful

You bring a lot of "Yes I want to play that with you!" to these boards, Graidawg; please don't underestimate the value of that kind of gift.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:13 am

goathead wrote:
jkisha wrote:She has an interesting story and makes some good points.

But let me ask you this. How many people in the entire country have ever been in her situation in the last say year? 1? 10? 100? 1000?

And how many people are in the US (adults)? 210,000,000 give or take.

It just defies the odds that with the small number of incidents compared to the large number of people owning guns that you would ever be in that gal's predicament; which makes the argument that you need a gun for protection pretty weak.

JK

it doesn't really matter JK.
it doesn't matter if you own a firearm or not.
it doesn't matter if you enjoy shooting or not.
do we want to limit our rights based on the number of people in a certain situation? for the "benefit" of society?

hell if we want to go down that road we should outlaw beer, wine, hard liquor, cars, just think of the numbers of people whould would not die if we did that.

shootings suck, so does dying of cancer or by a drunk driver though.
we would all be so heathy and safe though.

I'm not saying ban or limit anything. I'm saying the argument is weak. Actually, any argument against gun control is weak and unnecessary.Owning guns is a right given to us in the constitution, so why should it be necessary to come up with so many flimsy reasons to justify it? It just dilutes the argument and gives people more ammunition to use in trying to dilute those constitutional rights.

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:24 am

gyre wrote:
jkisha wrote: She has an interesting story and makes some good points.

But let me ask you this. How many people in the entire country have ever been in her situation in the last say year? 1? 10? 100? 1000?

And how many people are in the US (adults)? 210,000,000 give or take.

It just defies the odds that with the small number of incidents compared to the large number of people owning guns that you would ever be in that gal's predicament; which makes the argument that you need a gun for protection pretty weak.

JK
I'm having trouble even following this argument.
What is a 'small' number of incidents, and what difference would that make anyway?
Use of guns for self defense is overwhelming in numbers compared to criminal use.
The ratio just depends on how you measure it, since law enforcement keeps no accurate records on either.

How many deaths do you have to prevent to be "reasonable"?
If its my own, once is enough.

Whose life is not worth saving?
Which rapes are not worth preventing?

According to the police, almost all crime here involves guns.
What do you do at gunpoint when unarmed?

See my reply to Goathead's post, same answer for you.

JK

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:48 am

MyDearFriend wrote:
graidawg wrote:
goathead wrote:Fuck your a Birgin....
Wander around lost in total amazement.
That is all that is basically expected of you.

sorry to disapoint but well sorry.
i think i will want a bit more than just wandering round in total amazement though and well ive been reading about this for nearly 10 years now so well apart from the meltdown i am expecting about 3 times before i even get there i know after about 2 days i will want to do something helpful

You bring a lot of "Yes I want to play that with you!" to these boards, Graidawg; please don't underestimate the value of that kind of gift.

thank you thats a gift to me

Montanarchist · Post by **Montanarchist** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:53 am

DVD Burner wrote:Trust me, in less than three years, Texas will be a fuck up with the passing of this law!

I'm always right, or close to it on this one!

Leave this to me to be right!

My track record on eplaya is excellent!

Hopefully as far as it goes, FLAWLESS!

Ask "Joel the Ornery"!

Do you remember all the "streets running with blood" rhetoric when "shall issue" CCW permit laws were just starting to be passed? I recommend looking into what happened with violent crime after these laws were implemented.

ETA: Man, I wish the drive-by shooting range still happened.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:56 am

jkisha wrote:
See my reply to Goathead's post, same answer for you.

JK

The argument in most of the usa isn't ownership.
That's a given.

It's right to carry and self defense.
There is still a long way to go in terms of legal protection for those using for self defense.
It used to be normal practice to always prosecute anyone involved in self defense, and not that long ago.
It may still be in your area.

The silliness of these debates over personal protection leaving restaurants late at night ("guns in bars") and schools shows how desperate and deceptive the opposition is.

The head of the restaurant association here fighting the (optional) law admitted to me that he carries, like most owners.
He would have to be stupid not to.

So it continues.

Personal defense and security is a right, not only gun ownership.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:21 pm

gyre wrote:
jkisha wrote:
See my reply to Goathead's post, same answer for you.

JK
The argument in most of the usa isn't ownership.
That's a given.

It's right to carry and self defense.
There is still a long way to go in terms of legal protection for those using for self defense.
It used to be normal practice to always prosecute anyone involved in self defense, and not that long ago.
It may still be in your area.

The silliness of these debates over personal protection leaving restaurants late at night ("guns in bars") and schools shows how desperate and deceptive the opposition is.

The head of the restaurant association here fighting the (optional) law admitted to me that he carries, like most owners.
He would have to be stupid not to.

So it continues.

Personal defense and security is a right, not only gun ownership.

Interesting, I didn't think about their being a distinction between owning and carrying. Logically, it doesn't make much sense to be able to own a gun and not take it with you.

But then again, in some states it's not illegal to possess certain drugs but it is illegal to buy or sell them.

So, obviously logic and common sense never seems to enter into the picture when it comes to issues like drugs and guns.

JK

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:08 pm

Some old vets.

Supply Sergeant

CO

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:19 pm

graidawg wrote:I was frankly amazed when i got to nevada i was driving past a casino and saw a real live cowboy stetson six gun on his hip and winchester over his shoulder and everything.

Where in Nevada was this? In Virginia City, Storey county, it's common to see this, but, many of the people are "actors."

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:20 pm

First person I saw in wyoming was on a palomino on the street, and not just any horse, a world champion cutter.

Scary smart horse.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:24 pm

gyre wrote:It's right to carry and self defense.
There is still a long way to go in terms of legal protection for those using for self defense.

Just today there was an incident in Douglas county where a 24yr old shot his step father during a "domestic" argument. The SO feels it was justifiable. Hope the DA feels the same. The father is expected to recover.

Recently on COPS, a man in N. Las Vegas kicked a door in at an apartment. During his arrest, he was told by an officer the occupants could have shot you. Sounds like it would have been justifiable too.

Several years back also in Douglas county, a home owner shot and killed an intruder with a 357. The DA deemed it was self defense.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:45 pm

MyDearFriend wrote:
graidawg wrote:
goathead wrote:Fuck your a Birgin....
Wander around lost in total amazement.
That is all that is basically expected of you.

sorry to disapoint but well sorry.
i think i will want a bit more than just wandering round in total amazement though and well ive been reading about this for nearly 10 years now so well apart from the meltdown i am expecting about 3 times before i even get there i know after about 2 days i will want to do something helpful

You bring a lot of "Yes I want to play that with you!" to these boards, Graidawg; please don't underestimate the value of that kind of gift.

We like to play,,,, hehe hehehe hehehehehehehe

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:52 pm

gyre wrote:Some old vets.

Do you know any of those guys? The second pic is definitely 101st. My booney (or boony or ???) hat was blown of by a gust of wind from a helicopter as I was on my last airlift taking me out of country and back home.

I've got some pics up on Facebook. Got a bunch more but just haven't had the inclination to scan them. http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=8 ... ce1230b081

JK

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:39 pm

I don't know them.
Supposed to all be Phu Bai though.

There are some sites collecting photos and stories from the 101st and every other group.
Mention of reunions and address lists too.
Bound to be one that would welcome your photos and anything you had to say.
Some very interesting history in even the simple details.
I'm helping a friend of mine copy some film he took over there.

http://www.vietvet.org/phubai.htm
http://www.vietvet.org/nirk.htm

http://www.jimloy.com/jim/phubai.htm

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:52 pm

Looks like the firebase in my pics at my Facebook link.

JK

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:58 pm

Thought it might be.
Wonder how he got the long shot.

Did you read his story about arriving?

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:24 pm

Those links were great. That's where I was stationed. The stories on that site were fun to read. Seems like everybody had similar experiences. I was at Eagle Beach for RR a few times.

JK