Guns, Love Em or Leave Em

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:34 pm

The LZ Sally story seemed pretty lively.

I find it discomfiting when rockets are coming in my direction.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:00 am

At one time, Atlanta Georgia was the murder capital of America. Outside of Atlanta was Kennesaw. They passed a law that everyone had to own a gun. When they passed this law, crime went down. I visited the place and it was pretty quiet. When the South lost the battles of Kennesaw Mountain, the war was lost.This allowed the North to attack the storehouses of Atlanta.
Now, South Dakota has passed a law requiring gun ownership;
http://www.argusleader.com/article/2011 ... ns-buy-gun
Kennesaw wrote their law so that it had loopholes for those who wanted to decline.

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:50 am

Thecatman wrote:
graidawg wrote:I was frankly amazed when i got to nevada i was driving past a casino and saw a real live cowboy stetson six gun on his hip and winchester over his shoulder and everything.

Where in Nevada was this? In Virginia City, Storey county, it's common to see this, but, many of the people are "actors."

It was Gardnerville, about 60 miles or so south of Reno (maybe more or less i forget i had been driving from San Fran after a 17 hour flight from Heathrow so iwas pretty damn tired when i got there.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:01 pm

I saw the same thing in a bar in Sedona Arizona.
And I miss Texas. Gotta get back to the Big Bend by hook or by crook.....

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:14 pm

They say the park has become quite dangerous and you need to be armed to go.
It may have had a lot to do with the change in carry laws in parks now.

I hear it's spectacular.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:31 pm

Well I went for a 30 mile hike around the Dotzen trail and Emory peak 3 years ago. It was safe. The burreros- drug backpackers- do go through the park, but I only saw one person when I was there in April. Still, Big Bend is a place that you should carry in. I think it may have changed to allow carry but I'm not sure. It's a hell of a beautiful place.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:23 am

50 BMG

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:17 am

gyre wrote:50 BMG

ma deuce...........

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:10 am

Suffering from "It Can't Happen Here" syndrome?

The Detroit police have released a video of a man walking into the station and shooting immediately.
At least cbs has done an interview as well.
20 gauge shotgun vs handguns.

http://www.freep.com/article/20110128/N ... gun-battle
http://www.businessinsider.com/watch-in ... ion-2011-1

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:12 am

For anyone not aware of more advanced training available, here is an example of the many classes out there -

Combative Pistol, Two-Day

This is an intensive weekend course that covers all of the essential skills involved in fighting with a handgun. There is an all day session Saturday and Sunday, 9:00am to 6:00pm.

Topics covered in this course will include:
â€¢ Rapid presentation from concealed carry
â€¢ Effective gunhandling techniques, designed to work under stress
â€¢ Rapid reloading techniques
â€¢ High speed accuracy at close ranges
â€¢ Precision shooting at mid-ranges
â€¢ Effective scanning techniques, locating additional threats
â€¢ Proper defensive mindset and more.

Expect to fire about 800-1000 rounds of ammunition. This course is designed expressly for the armed citizen who carries a concealed handgun, or the plain clothes or off duty police officer.

You will need a good handgun, holster, belt, and magazine pouch, at least three magazines, a ball cap and concealment garment (vest, jacket, windbreaker, etc), eye and ear protection, and rain gear (we train rain or shine).

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:31 am

cowboyangel wrote:Avoid Russian ammo....Wolf...it sucks...btw...some Russian dude showed up today wearing dinner pants and a white dress shirt...to the fucking range! These people..... as my Lithuanian grandmother would say.....

"Tai Bratzya" (Polish miss-spelled for "oh brother") ( see...the Lithuanians are vastly superior to the Poles.....)

We've used a lot of 7.6x39 russian ammo with no issues.
Never heard of any serious ones either.
There are a few types though.
What are you using?

The Bear is considered superior and usually costs more too.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:47 am

JK

For anyone that didn't notice J Kisha's trinkets here, the one on the left is the Bronze Star and the next one is a commendation.
Looking it up, the Bronze Star Medal is given to indicate the wearer can't stay the fuck away from trouble.
The rest indicate pretty much the same thing, in one way or another.

I think I noticed expert combat infantry medals too.

On the top left, is that the army seal?

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:33 pm

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:48 pm

What country was that?

Didn't happen here.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:13 pm

gyre wrote:What country was that?

Didn't happen here.

Actually, it did.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ve-been-k/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... oonesbury/

JK

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:17 pm

Doonesbury is right up to a point. The other point he fails to make is that according to an NGO, probably close to a million Iraqis lost their lives because of the phony reasons for the invasion.

[Wikipedia] The Lancet, one of the oldest scientific medical journals in the world, published two peer-reviewed studies on the effect of the 2003 invasion of Iraq and subsequent occupation on the Iraqi mortality rate. The first was published in 2004; the second (by many of the same authors) in 2006. The studies estimate the number of excess deaths caused by the occupation, both direct (combatants plus non-combatants) and indirect (due to increased lawlessness, degraded infrastructure, poor healthcare, etc.).

The first survey[1] published on 29 October 2004, estimated 98,000 excess Iraqi deaths (with a range of 8,000 to 194,000, using a 95% confidence interval (CI)) from the 2003 invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq to that time, or about 50% higher than the death rate prior to the invasion. The authors described this as a conservative estimate, because it excluded the extreme statistical outlier data from Falluja. If the Falluja cluster were included, the mortality estimate would increase to 150% over pre-invasion rates (95% CI: 1.6 to 4.2).

The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006. The new study applied similar methods and involved surveys between May 20 and July 10, 2006.[4] More households were surveyed, allowing for a 95% confidence interval of 392,979 to 942,636 excess Iraqi deaths. 601,027 deaths (range of 426,369 to 793,663 using a 95% confidence interval) were due to violence. 31% (186,318) of those were attributed to the Coalition, 24% (144,246) to others, and 46% (276,472) unknown. The causes of violent deaths were gunshot (56% or 336,575), car bomb (13% or 78,133), other explosion/ordnance (14%), air strike (13% or 78,133), accident (2% or 12,020), and unknown (2%).

Gun deaths are caused by mental illness and stupidity. This where I depart from my friends in the NRA... There needs to be tighter regulation on who gets to own a gun...any history of abuse, mental illness, violent behavior leading to arrest and conviction....sorry, no gun.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:32 pm

cowboyangel wrote:Doonesbury is right up to a point. The other point he fails to make is that according to an NGO, probably close to a million Iraqis lost their lives because of the phony reasons for the invasion.

Gun deaths are caused by mental illness and stupidity. This where I depart from my friends in the NRA... There needs to be tighter regulation on who gets to own a gun...any history of abuse, mental illness, violent behavior leading to arrest and conviction....sorry, no gun.

Except that I don't think he was trying to make an "international" point. He was just focusing on here in the USA.

And I tend to agree with you regarding the mental illness, etc. point; though I usually stay out of those conversations for obvious reasons if you read back over this thread.

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:33 pm

gyre wrote: JK

For anyone that didn't notice J Kisha's trinkets here

Thanks gyre.

JK

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:39 pm

As is usually claimed by the anti-gun forces, that includes police shootings, my personal self defense during a robbery, and so on.
In the home?
Makes it a known lie.

My own personal knowledge of inaccurate police records makes me question any statistics based on their material anyway.
Remember the 80% reduction in rape recently in some cities?

No gun laws weakened, if I apply that same value judgment.

Smacks of the comec lie of 100,000 children kidnapped every year, extrapolated from ???

And CA, the idea of taking guns away from the unfit is mostly a star trek dream.
The outrageous cases were covered a hundred years ago or so, by laws still in force.
Further efforts are already leading to more deaths, not less.
All the more ridiculous when you can't keep anyone away from weapons, only threaten them with more punishment.

We just had a spectacular carjacking, near my new "nicer" neighborhood, with machetes and lots of blood.
No guns needed in mexico for violence.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:43 pm

jkisha wrote:
gyre wrote: For anyone that didn't notice J Kisha's trinkets here
Thanks gyre.

JK

Sure thing, J.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:46 pm

gyre wrote: In the home?
Makes it a known lie.

He didn't say in the cartoon "In the home" rather "at home" meaning in the United States. If you read the link (the first one) it will clarify his exact meaning as well as exactly where and how the statistics were compiled.

JK

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:40 pm

Okay, I was looking at it as a single panel.

Still, sloppy or misleading at best.
Ignores the decline or plateau in violent crime or homicide during the period, depending on which reliable statistics you look at.
I found a huge disparity between cdc, medical and national statistics.
Many often forget the amount of inclusion in homicide alone.
Even in the usa, there is still a large proportion of non-firearm homicide.
Including all and sundry is typically misleading.

The nra and others routinely vet these statistics, and they are inevitably flawed, often just false.

The latest target is homicide by carry permit holders.
They include justifiable shootings, murder not involving weapons or a permit, ad nauseam.

Beyond that, it's a meaningless argument, trying to tie it to weapons.
Crime in the usa is low compared to comparable countries in the way we mishandle the 'justice' system.
We persist in trial by extortion as a system, and we have 5% of the world population with 25% of all in prison in the world.
Only china is close in this regard.

We were warned many years ago that treating drugs as high criminal offenses would force other types of criminals out of the system onto the streets and we continue to hand vast sums of money and power to the drug black market.
Hey, it's working fine for south america so far...

All things considered, we are doing well for so stupid.
Compare the incredible murder rates in brazil, etc.

I do consider the reported first degree homicide rate to be highly under reported due to the nature of it, but that goes even more so for many other countries, with a weaker forensic system.

Did you see Frontline's Postmortem?
You and I are both qualified to be coroners in many places in the usa, and even medical examiners in many places.
CSI is not only the fantasy exception, it is wildly rare to see anything close to reasonable.
There is no standard and no certifying system.

So this plays into statistics.

I know that here (with a seemingly good office) undetermined deaths are not homicides, and of course the unlocated are not statistics either.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:22 pm

This was on the local news today. Its similar to carrying a revolver

Potential Changes Made to NV Gun Laws

According to NV lawmakers, Senate Bill No 126 is intended to allow individuals that have a concealed carry weapons permit to be able to qualify with one semi-automatic, which would allow them to carry any other semi-automatic that they have in their possession. Further details on this to come. If you have a question or an opinion about this matter, please leave us a comment

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:57 pm

It's one of those weird rules written to discourage people from getting permits.
We had similar rules at first, but now it isn't specific, so people can qualify with any weapon, even a range gun.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:07 am

gyre wrote:It's one of those weird rules written to discourage people from getting permits.
We had similar rules at first, but now it isn't specific, so people can qualify with any weapon, even a range gun.

I'm partial to rifles, so a concealed weapons permit would be kinda useless. Is it that Taboo to just carry your firearm in the open? I think AKs are sexy accessories!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:20 am

They tied a carry permit to rifles and shotguns here.
It really has become a 'good guy" card in many places.
It can solve even technical violations.

Our permit law isn't concealed carry, though written for that.
That is so no one can quibble about how concealed or exposure.

We have older laws about brandishing and so on, but the bar is higher now in practice.
We have carried AKs on the street here, but high crime neighborhoods consider that more reasonable than other places.

When I had someone checking on my house while I was at the burn, they openly carried a rifle to make a point about the security.

Technically an AK pistol falls under out permit here.
Impractical though.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:04 am

gyre wrote:They tied a carry permit to rifles and shotguns here.
It really has become a 'good guy" card in many places.
It can solve even technical violations.

Our permit law isn't concealed carry, though written for that.
That is so no one can quibble about how concealed or exposure.

We have older laws about brandishing and so on, but the bar is higher now in practice.
We have carried AKs on the street here, but high crime neighborhoods consider that more reasonable than other places.

When I had someone checking on my house while I was at the burn, they openly carried a rifle to make a point about the security.

Technically an AK pistol falls under out permit here.
Impractical though.

AK pistol? you mean a Krinkov? I think standard AK barrels are just beyond 18".

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:12 am

Change of subject...

Any good online resources for gunsmithing? Prefer PDF's (easier to add to the collection) and of course, free is ALWAYS stellar...

Figured I'd ask my family, as I get so much garbage via the "gorgle" routine...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:15 am

16 1/4" on most I've seen.
Some shorter and there are long barrel RPK versions.
Probably plenty of others.
Many just under 16".

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/akagun-pis-2.aspx

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:18 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Change of subject...

Any good online resources for gunsmithing? Prefer PDF's (easier to add to the collection) and of course, free is ALWAYS stellar...

Figured I'd ask my family, as I get so much garbage via the "gorgle" routine...

you mean DIY gunsmithing, or, finding a good one?