Guns, Love Em or Leave Em

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:18 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Change of subject...

Any good online resources for gunsmithing? Prefer PDF's (easier to add to the collection) and of course, free is ALWAYS stellar...

Figured I'd ask my family, as I get so much garbage via the "gorgle" routine...

I find info in various places.
I can't think of one that stands out.
There are a lot of gunsmiths on some of the AK forums.
Probably the most common gun to build here thanks to the import laws.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:55 am

ygmir wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Change of subject...

Any good online resources for gunsmithing? Prefer PDF's (easier to add to the collection) and of course, free is ALWAYS stellar...

Figured I'd ask my family, as I get so much garbage via the "gorgle" routine...
you mean DIY gunsmithing, or, finding a good one?

DIY. Know of a couple in the Beh Area, but kind of hate being at the mercy of someone else to do stuff like that, esp. there... If I had time I'd take a few months off, and go up to Susanville... the Community College up there allegedly has a really good series of courses, but work kinda has me anchored here. And would rather know, as it may be one of those skills that might just be handy to know...

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:10 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:
ygmir wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Change of subject...

Any good online resources for gunsmithing? Prefer PDF's (easier to add to the collection) and of course, free is ALWAYS stellar...

Figured I'd ask my family, as I get so much garbage via the "gorgle" routine...
you mean DIY gunsmithing, or, finding a good one?
DIY. Know of a couple in the Beh Area, but kind of hate being at the mercy of someone else to do stuff like that, esp. there... If I had time I'd take a few months off, and go up to Susanville... the Community College up there allegedly has a really good series of courses, but work kinda has me anchored here. And would rather know, as it may be one of those skills that might just be handy to know...

yeah, a friend did the whole gunsmithing course and degree in Susanville.
he's now a high school teacher.
It is good to know basic smithing.
I wonder if you could email Susanville JC and contact someone there, either for info, or, to point you in the right direction?
Maybe they even have on-line classes or resources?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:11 am

An Afghani village was found in arkansas yesterday.
Very large mysterious explosions created some interest.
Turns out to be a group doing some special forces training.
No comment from them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_Group

http://www.t1g.com/

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:20 pm

As there shouldn't be... prolly a class in session.

BTW, their ops med courses are allegedly stellar... Actually, they have pretty good reviews from all sectors... would love to have the opportunity to attend someday.

All I need is a GSA credit card... and about -20 years... ;)

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:32 am

We should all be like new york city.

Just watched bloomberg talking about gun prohibition.
Nearly every word out of his mouth was a lie.
He is potentially more dangerous than every gun in our country put together, a would be hitler.

He continues lying about gun shows, gun dealers and this country.
And the law here.

And he talks about background checks as though they are a given.
I don't think so.
They aren't needed, don't work, and are just another Very Bad Idea.
Now he wants to restrict the "mentally ill".
Who is that, exactly?

This is exactly how the sterilization programs started, with the soppy, vague good intent to fix things....somehow.

Maybe when he solves new york city's problems, he should give us a call.

He even had a statistic about deaths since kennedy died.
Never mentiuoned why any of it was relevant to cheese.
A cheap, manipulative little tin hitler.

Not all sociopaths end up like Ted Bundy, who, by the way, used a gun in 0% of his murders.
Some sociopaths go on tv and accumulate power

geospyder · Post by **geospyder** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:20 am

gyre - I was taking a class last night titled "Prevention and Response to Suicide Bombing Incidents" and ran across your ePlaya name. It was in reference to the effects of the actual bomb blast. Had no idea what it meant until last night.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:50 pm

geospyder wrote:gyre - I was taking a class last night titled "Prevention and Response to Suicide Bombing Incidents" and ran across your ePlaya name. It was in reference to the effects of the actual bomb blast. Had no idea what it meant until last night.

That's a new usage to me.
How was it used?

There is more than one meaning.
The shape - an ascending or descending spiral, has religious or metaphysical meaning.

geospyder · Post by **geospyder** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:06 pm

I can't find the word in any of the handouts. It was used during the viewing of various explosions in slow motion. I think the specific one was 3 pounds Pentolite in a backpack placed in a sidewalk cafe. The shrapnel and shock wave were very impresssive as it spread up and out.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:02 am

Were they talking about the circular shock wave?

Some of the high speed film I've seen is very impressive, and alarming.

You seem to have some unusual hobbies.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:27 am

I still want my very own puke gun and I'm not talking about DVD's posts...
(kidding Tony)

geospyder · Post by **geospyder** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:45 am

gyre wrote:Were they talking about the circular shock wave?

Some of the high speed film I've seen is very impressive, and alarming.

You seem to have some unusual hobbies.

Yep, yep and yep

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:53 pm

???

Know what scares me? American citizens thinking they need a "gun license" to own a firearm. Yep, better have big brother's blessing to let them allow you to enjoy your guaranteed rights.

Yet kids somehow have been brainwasahed to think their rights are not rights but their nanny's permission. And the tyrant loves that they OWN their subjects... an d their rights.

Sorry, but you can no longer use the nations oxygen. You need our permission to use it. Don't like it, don't breathe.

sorry for the rant, but I heard this today from a stepkid, and it really DID make me ill. and the kid didn't understand why I thought our rights were really rights, and somehow thought the govt had every right to withhold them from us.

Is it all over? are we now owned by our govrenment???

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:03 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:???

Know what scares me? American citizens thinking they need a "gun license" to own a firearm. Yep, better have big brother's blessing to let them allow you to enjoy your guaranteed rights.

Yet kids somehow have been brainwasahed to think their rights are not rights but their nanny's permission. And the tyrant loves that they OWN their subjects... an d their rights.

Sorry, but you can no longer use the nations oxygen. You need our permission to use it. Don't like it, don't breathe.

sorry for the rant, but I heard this today from a stepkid, and it really DID make me ill. and the kid didn't understand why I thought our rights were really rights, and somehow thought the govt had every right to withhold them from us.

Is it all over? are we now owned by our govrenment???

Oh please. *rolling eyes* This post really needs a Lawrence O'Donnell rewrite. With such a hysterical reaction to the misinformation of your stepson causes me to believe you just might be one of those unstable people that shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. You sure that wasn't what he meant????

JK

this post should shake it up a bit

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:30 pm

jkisha wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote:???

Know what scares me? American citizens thinking they need a "gun license" to own a firearm. Yep, better have big brother's blessing to let them allow you to enjoy your guaranteed rights.

Yet kids somehow have been brainwasahed to think their rights are not rights but their nanny's permission. And the tyrant loves that they OWN their subjects... an d their rights.

Sorry, but you can no longer use the nations oxygen. You need our permission to use it. Don't like it, don't breathe.

sorry for the rant, but I heard this today from a stepkid, and it really DID make me ill. and the kid didn't understand why I thought our rights were really rights, and somehow thought the govt had every right to withhold them from us.

Is it all over? are we now owned by our govrenment???
Oh please. *rolling eyes* This post really needs a Lawrence O'Donnell rewrite. With such a hysterical reaction to the misinformation of your stepson causes me to believe you just might be one of those unstable people that shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. You sure that wasn't what he meant????

JK

this post should shake it up a bit

Sort of had the same thing happen at work here.
Co-worker swore his firearms where "registered"
But since he has lived in Nevada all of his life i wondered why they where?

Turned out he was confused and thought the Brady check meant his firearms where registed.

Guess this is the blurring of what our rights are, and what they really are.
If you blur the lines enough, who can tell?

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:50 pm

I've heard the argument equating licensing a firearm with licensing a motor vehicle. It's like RIGHTS are confused with Privileges. And then we have the supposed right to free healthcare which is all debated in another thread. But there is a seemingly purposed confusion in the next generation to blur the differences. That is what happens when gubmint is trusted to educate our children.

BBS,,,, it is pretty much up to us to set the record straight one person at a time.

JK, on the other hand,,,,, sighhhh. I so appreciate your willingness to engage, listen and converse the issues of the day. You do consistently tow the statist point of view.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:44 am

jkisha wrote:
this post should shake it up a bit :)

My question is why be provocative and such? Or is it the freedom of speech that scares you? Why the need to "shake it up a bit"?

Just kinda curious why the pretty consistant negative reaction, dude???

have a great sunday,
bb

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:18 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:
jkisha wrote:
this post should shake it up a bit
My question is why be provocative and such? Or is it the freedom of speech that scares you? Why the need to "shake it up a bit"?

Just kinda curious why the pretty consistant negative reaction, dude???

have a great sunday,
bb

It has nothing to do with freedom of speech, it has to do with the intelligent use of speech.

A person holding a gun and going off on a tirade only helps to convince gun control advocates just how correct they are in wanting guns to be removed from society.

If you were just blowing off steam, fine. Just saying...

JK

And what do you mean 'pretty constant negative reaction'? In case I have been misunderstood, I'm basically on your side of this issue.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:26 am

Trishntek wrote:I've heard the argument equating licensing a firearm with licensing a motor vehicle. It's like RIGHTS are confused with Privileges. And then we have the supposed right to free healthcare which is all debated in another thread. But there is a seemingly purposed confusion in the next generation to blur the differences. That is what happens when gubmint is trusted to educate our children.

BBS,,,, it is pretty much up to us to set the record straight one person at a time.

JK, on the other hand,,,,, sighhhh. I so appreciate your willingness to engage, listen and converse the issues of the day. You do consistently tow the statist point of view.

Statist? Not at all. I wasn't disagreeing with what BBS was saying, just how she expressed it. I'm not a gun control advocate, per se; but I am a strong advocate for public education.

JK

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:41 am

Damn, that ppks beat the shit out of the web of my hand last night. Ouch!!! guess I should work into those smaller frame pistols a little more gently. OTOH, she sure shoots str8... once I got used to it she became a point and shoot holepunch... kinda like the 357...

range was PACKED yesterday... what made me really happy were the number of WOMEN there... A few were first timers, but others were obviously experienced... but they had people waiting for lanes on the indoor, and there were only 2 slots on the 100 yard outdoor (the 50 yard was packed tight!)...

I still assert... that the only gun control should be sight picture, breathing, and trigger pull... if that's nuts, or the thought of going to a police registration of every firearm so they can be picked up at a later date when the then-government finds that illegal or offensive ( we already have that in Italy, BTW) so we end up like Britain where you have to spend thousands for a license to own a firearm, than adaditional thousands for every firearm you own, AND mandated draconian rules on how to use them to where it's a privilege of the rich or those in the government, rather than a right of the citizen... well, sorry, I am an American, and also served in the forces that instilled these rights and freedoms and responsibilities into me.

It's anyone's right to not want to own a firearm, or to want to restrict THEIR OWN access to one... but it is not their right to curtail the freedoms of others. Is that crazy??? Gods, I hope not.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:45 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote: It's anyone's right to not want to own a firearm, or to want to restrict THEIR OWN access to one... but it is not their right to curtail the freedoms of others. Is that crazy??? Gods, I hope not.

Here's the point, again. Yes, you are an American. Yes, you do have the right (given in the constitution) to own firearms. HOWEVER your are not the only American weighing in on this issue...like CITY FOLK, that feel that the need to own firearms has become trumped by the amount of violent crime they are experiencing in their cities. (I am not arguing the validity of this statement, it is irrelevant.) These CITY FOLK, which by the way, I believe outnumber the COUNTRY FOLK, already think that the COUNTRY FOLK are a bit backward and a slight bit nuts for their opinion on gun ownership.

When some of the COUNTRY FOLK start ranting on about their rights to own guns in their over-passionate but less than rational sounding diatribes, all the COUNTRY FOLK are doing is giving the CITY FOLK MORE AMMUNITION to use against the COUNTRY FOLK in trying to restrict their rights to own guns.

BTW, I'm one of the CITY FOLK that doesn't want to restrict your rights, but some rants I read here do give me pause to reconsider my position.

I hope I am making sense, I'm just trying to alert you to how important framing your arguments are to winning them.

JK

geospyder · Post by **geospyder** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:48 am

For you Nevada peeps, don't forget to email your state senator and assemblyperson to have them support AB 8 and SB 126.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=6238

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:09 pm

Thanks Geo. Bill 8 is getting more necessary by the hour.
Now, on Bill 126, would that mean I could stick my shotgun down my pants and walk around town? Kinda limpin like a little?

Box Burner · Post by **Box Burner** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:32 pm

jkisha wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote: It's anyone's right to not want to own a firearm, or to want to restrict THEIR OWN access to one... but it is not their right to curtail the freedoms of others. Is that crazy??? Gods, I hope not.
Here's the point, again. Yes, you are an American. Yes, you do have the right (given in the constitution) to own firearms. HOWEVER your are not the only American weighing in on this issue...like CITY FOLK, that feel that the need to own firearms has become trumped by the amount of violent crime they are experiencing in their cities. (I am not arguing the validity of this statement, it is irrelevant.) These CITY FOLK, which by the way, I believe outnumber the COUNTRY FOLK, already think that the COUNTRY FOLK are a bit backward and a slight bit nuts for their opinion on gun ownership.

When some of the COUNTRY FOLK start ranting on about their rights to own guns in their over-passionate but less than rational sounding diatribes, all the COUNTRY FOLK are doing is giving the CITY FOLK MORE AMMUNITION to use against the COUNTRY FOLK in trying to restrict their rights to own guns.

BTW, I'm one of the CITY FOLK that doesn't want to restrict your rights, but some rants I read here do give me pause to reconsider my position.

I hope I am making sense, I'm just trying to alert you to how important framing your arguments are to winning them.

JK

We had that right before the constitution existed. Fact is, that the constitution does not give us any rights. The Constitution points out to Gov that we already have rights, some of which are inalienable (meaning that they cannot even be given away). It further states that any rights not mentioned also belong to the people and cannot be taken away by Gov.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:41 pm

Box Burner wrote:
jkisha wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote: It's anyone's right to not want to own a firearm, or to want to restrict THEIR OWN access to one... but it is not their right to curtail the freedoms of others. Is that crazy??? Gods, I hope not.
Here's the point, again. Yes, you are an American. Yes, you do have the right (given in the constitution) to own firearms. HOWEVER your are not the only American weighing in on this issue...like CITY FOLK, that feel that the need to own firearms has become trumped by the amount of violent crime they are experiencing in their cities. (I am not arguing the validity of this statement, it is irrelevant.) These CITY FOLK, which by the way, I believe outnumber the COUNTRY FOLK, already think that the COUNTRY FOLK are a bit backward and a slight bit nuts for their opinion on gun ownership.

When some of the COUNTRY FOLK start ranting on about their rights to own guns in their over-passionate but less than rational sounding diatribes, all the COUNTRY FOLK are doing is giving the CITY FOLK MORE AMMUNITION to use against the COUNTRY FOLK in trying to restrict their rights to own guns.

BTW, I'm one of the CITY FOLK that doesn't want to restrict your rights, but some rants I read here do give me pause to reconsider my position.

I hope I am making sense, I'm just trying to alert you to how important framing your arguments are to winning them.

JK

We had that right before the constitution existed. Fact is, that the constitution does not give us any rights. The Constitution points out to Gov that we already have rights, some of which are inalienable (meaning that they cannot even be given away). It further states that any rights not mentioned also belong to the people and cannot be taken away by Gov.

Don't forget that the constitution is a living and changing document, based on time and interpretation. One example that I like to use, especially if you are a 'strict' institutionalist, is that according to the constitution, the Air Force is unconstitutional. The interpretation of the second amendment is also subject to interpretation, after all, a lot of time has passed since it was written (proposed 1798, ratified 1971) I doubt many (most) of the firearms envisioned by the writers are available today and the weapons most people are seeking to regulate couldn't have possibly have been imagined by the writers, so by strict interpretation, could not be covered by the amendment.

Just saying...

JK

JK

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:49 pm

What are they planning for permit reciprocity?

I hear the KSG is about to come out.

Manually selectable magazines, 14 rounds total.
26" long

Neostead

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:57 pm

Don't forget that the constitution is a living and changing document, based on time and interpretation. One example that I like to use, especially if you are a 'strict' institutionalist, is that according to the constitution, the Air Force is unconstitutional.

Spoken like a true statist. Only a true statist believes the U.S. Constitution is safe in the gubmint's hands

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence. It is force. And force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." George Washington

God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950)

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:00 pm

jkisha wrote:
Don't forget that the constitution is a living and changing document, based on time and interpretation. One example that I like to use, especially if you are a 'strict' institutionalist, is that according to the constitution, the Air Force is unconstitutional. The interpretation of the second amendment is also subject to interpretation, after all, a lot of time has passed since it was written (proposed 1798, ratified 1971) I doubt many (most) of the firearms envisioned by the writers are available today and the weapons most people are seeking to regulate couldn't have possibly have been imagined by the writers, so by strict interpretation, could not be covered by the amendment.

Just saying...

JK

JK

It was actually the anti personal defense arguments that made clear to me how strong the second amendment is.
Their argument was that it has to be interpreted in its context.

It was written to cover weapons adequate to confront a military governmental force.
In the modern day that would extend to light artillery, rpgs, and in some cases, small guided weapons.
Regardless of interpretation, those weapons are available widely.

The second amendment covering smaller military weapons, including select fire, seems straightforward.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:32 pm

Dammit! Cannot resist when the Constitution's integrity is called into question.

The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."
Patrick Henry

"The citizens of the U.S. are responsible for the greatest trust ever confided to a political society"

"We base all our experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government." James Madison

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:38 am

Trishntek wrote:Dammit! Cannot resist when the Constitution's integrity is called into question.

The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."
Patrick Henry

"The citizens of the U.S. are responsible for the greatest trust ever confided to a political society"

"We base all our experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government." James Madison

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

Some people also hate when the integrity of the Bible is called into question too; doesn't mean it shouldn't, times change. Hardly anyone today believes the world is flat.

None of this has anything to do with being a statist either.

JK