For all those towing trailers...

sambojones · Post by **sambojones** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:21 pm

background info

car: 2004 lexus ls430
towing capacity: wimpy US capacity = 2000-2500 lbs Euro spec for the same car is 2000kg
what I'm towing: double axel trailer with electronic brakes (not hooked up) weight is around 700 pounds
payload: not really sure on the weight most of the space is just taken up by my hexayurt, a couple of bikes, honda eu2000i, couple of gas containers, coolers, luggage, lots of water and maybe some miscellaneous burner shit

what I need help with:

I've done my research on the lexus boards and my car has proven more than capable of towing what I want to tow so that's not an issue.
Last year I towed out my trailer with no problems and had plenty of power made around 18-19 mpg on the highway traveling at good speed. my only issue was that the car was sitting really low in the back. Is there anything that I can do as far as the suspension to stiffen it up so it won't sag so much. anything that would be a temporary bolt on solution would be best because I pretty much just tow the trailer with a good load on it once for regional burn and once for big burn. any help or advice would be really welcome or even just a general direction to go towards

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:30 pm

No opinion on the lexus boards?

Lighter trailer would be good.
What's the tongue weight empty?
Can you balance the trailer and lighten the tongue weight?
Can you carry more weight in the car?

There are air bags and air shocks as an add on.
Best thing is stiffer springs and shocks.
Variable wound springs can be used for a softer ride when empty.
Consider heavier antisway bars.

Is this independent suspension?
Front or rear wheel drive?

If you don't have an aux trans cooler, add one and synthetic fluid is a good idea.
If it's rwd, use synthetic in the differential.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:36 pm

gyre wrote: If it's rwd, use synthetic in the differential.

Would synthetic work in a 90 VW van?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:47 pm

Sure.
Just be sure to use the correct grade.
I use redline.
Call their tech line and they will sort it out for you.
If you know the factory recommended type, have that info.

Fluids available for auto trans, manual, engine oil, etc.
The water wetter works for water based cooling systems too.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:32 am

$50 for the 2010 Large Scale Atlas.
This is the better one than the laminated one, actually totally washable.
This is a good deal.
Well worth having for folks just using cars.
Better color, better city maps, etc.
I think I paid $30 or $40 for my laminated one at a truck stop.

http://store.randmcnally.com/road-atlas ... atlas.html

They have a festival guide too.
I wonder if it covers the burn?

LLQchasm · Post by **LLQchasm** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:46 am

I used to tow a 19' trailer... One thing to look at is a weight distribution hitch. That can help rear end sagging a bit.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:03 am

LLQchasm wrote:I used to tow a 19' trailer... One thing to look at is a weight distribution hitch. That can help rear end sagging a bit.

We use one on our camper for towing. Really helps lock the 2 units together for a more stable ride. Our sway bar attaches with a type of cotter pin front and back to hold it onto the balls. 2 years ago leaving the burn we drove to Flaming Gorge to camp and found the front pin missing. Thankfully the sway bar didn't hop off of the ball. We were lucky to find another pin down in Vernal. We now bend that pin some to keep it from sliding out and we also carry spares. Food for thought for anybody using these types of hitches.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:09 am

Thanks Gyre! Just got me that large scale Atlas.

Used promo code SAVE10 to get a 10% discount even.

My old map book was getting really beat up from BurningMan trips.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:21 am

Glad I could help.
Wish I could get one myself.

Let us know how you like it when you get it.
See if you can destroy this one!

lucky.bastard · Post by **lucky.bastard** » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:20 pm

i have a hitch that has an adjustable height so you i can make sure my camper is level and the weight is over the axle of the trailer << big difference >>

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:56 pm

Motzy, I designed a method for internally venting heat from containers in case you want to use it.
It does use some space, but worth it in sunlight.

If I haven't said, I suggest that trailers should be painted for visibility.
Drivers tend to not see them anyway, especially the low ones.
Most seem to be painted black.
Who are they trying to hide from anyway?
I can only guess it's to hide bad welding???

I saw one for sale recently, all in black except for some reflectors.
You can barely see it in the photo, and it isn't small.

I just painted my new liner in gloss white and it makes a huge difference over plain plywood in visibility.
It should be possible to get useful light on the inside with just LEDs too.
I used an acrylic one part, as they told me it's the best choice for UV exposure and won't leaf.
I did use a lot to get it to go on smooth and cover well.
It goes on very thick and is hard to apply with a brush or roller.
I spent almost as much as getting marine grade wood, but it looks good and durable.

I have also used rustoleum HD aluminum on steel.
It could be used on wood, but it leafs a lot.
That isn't an issue on the outside, but I don't need it on the inside.

I recommend the 3M conspicuity reflective tape.
Usually 980 or a similar number.
Look for diamond grade, not the lighter stuff.
They make a vertical version as well as the more common horizontal stripes.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:53 pm

gyre wrote:Motzy, I designed a method for internally venting heat from containers in case you want to use it.
It does use some space, but worth it in sunlight.

I would definitely be interested in that since my current ideas revolve around silver roof, thin insulated walls, window type air conditioning and quiet running generators.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:11 pm

External is ideal, as with a vented attic.

Since I have an uninsulated container, I plan a framed liner with fiberglas insulation lined with reflectix layers.
It will leave a gap on the outside, possibly with a layer of reflectix on the outside (haven't determined which is more effective), similar to vaulted roofs.
The walls will be vented on the base and on one side on the top.
Draft control will be used to separate the flow from the one across the top (if needed).
A divider or two in the venting chimney helps block radiant heat, but may not be practical.

Another option to an attic is a flat 'attic' made with an external, but flat frame spaced away from the surface.
This could be permanent or added in place.
Anything from mesh aluminet to plywood could be used, but aluminet has obvious advantages in rain.

The proper venting is not so crucial as the gap on the playa, due to the wind, but it will generate it's own draft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_effect

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:20 pm

The structure of the liner should not touch the outer walls unless made from an insulator.
Some separation helps control the airflow though.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:59 pm

The exploded box around the outside of the container is an interesting idea and a great way to block sun generated heat. I had thought of a simple frame work over the top with shade cloth stretched on it. This seems to me to be one of the most feasible things to do. Especially if the dimensions were something like 12' by 24'for some extra coverage. Come to think of it shade cloth could be stretched along the sun exposed sides as well. Capturing all that heat before it hits the container might actually make air conditioning feasible.
I'm interested in keeping the permanent external dimensions of the container stock so that it is easier to transport. A frame could be made that attached to the corner castings that held the shade cloth an appropriate distance away from the container.

Interesting stuff to ponder. Thanks gyre.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:29 am

Sure thing.

Was I clear enough about the interior liner?
By outside in that part, I am referring to the inside part of the outer wall.

The floor can be insulated many ways, but urethane foam from the bottom would be ideal.
An inside liner has advantages of isolation though.
That is part of what I plan for an interior room in my house.
You can reach the point where the contact points conduct more heat than anywhere else insulated.

Containers should be off the ground to ventilate unless other measures are taken, or perhaps your climate is dry enough.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:03 pm

I think I get what you mean gyre. Is it interior walls and ceiling that has free air space behind it that can be ventilated in a controlled manner? Like getting the benefit of an attic fan during hot wether. Using ambient air temperature to gather the conducted radiant energy before it enters the living space and divert it back outside. Is this basically it?

My plans for interior finished walls as of now are not that complicated but I could see how it would be beneficial. I was thinking of framing out from the vertical ribs with 2x2's and possibly filling that space with foam. Foam underneath once all utilities are in place seems like a great idea. For applications off playa I would definitely elevate the container on blocks or a foundation. Containers on the ground seem to suffer substantially reduced service life.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:36 pm

That's the idea.
Stack effect can power the ventilation with it's own heat.

Foam has no dramatic superiority over other insulation in R value.
Fiberglas can be used in brick or compressed form as well.
You still need a liner with foam to protect it.
It's advantage is rigidity and structural strength, and the ability to eliminate framing.

There may be an improvement with multiple layers of reflectix as a substitute.

The thickness of insulation will matter.
There are some insulated containers on the playa and elsewhere.
A common approach is to inset a wall and door spaced within the cargo doors, often incuding the ac mount.

I have a standard reefer and an ice cream truck with the much thicker insulation and it really pays off.
It's a tradeoff you have to weigh, but you should consider it.
Find a yard and climb inside each when not running on a sunny day.
After I did that, I quit looking at standard trailers.

Post by **AntiM** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:52 am

I can hardly wait to see these trailer son the playa! Maybe we should have a Parade of Trailers, and go camp to camp to check them out. That would be fun.

Our little open utility trailer which needs a new paint job will hang its head in shame.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:17 am

A really excellent trailer, as I recall, with a flawless setup a la your husband's loading skill.

I look at a lot of trailers on the playa to try to learn something, and some are just showpieces, but my favorite was a bike trailer custom built for art supplies.
Labeled Art Cart.

I think it's been modified to add a child to it now.

I'm still amazed that people bring fully polished airstreams out there.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:51 pm

I'm looking for a 6x10 utility trailer to build the next playapod on.

Having a heck of a time trying to find a piece of shit trailer that I can engineer into what I want.

Boat trailers are too long.

I'm running out of ideas of where to look.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:05 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I'm looking for a 6x10 utility trailer to build the next playapod on.

Having a heck of a time trying to find a piece of shit trailer that I can engineer into what I want.

Boat trailers are too long.

I'm running out of ideas of where to look.

6X10 trailers (even junk) are runing 5-8, & 1000$ on craig's list..
Just wait.. One is coming your way.. karma works if you believe..

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:14 pm

Some boat trailers have the axle assembly bolted to the frame. These are easy to shorten -- you just slide the axle assembly forward and re-bolt it, then cut off the excess frame. I have a single axle Vanson from 1972, like this. An other option is to offer to dispose of somebody's junk camping trailer. Some of these are only six feet wide. Lots of dirty work though, stripping those.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:16 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I'm looking for a 6x10 utility trailer to build the next playapod on.

Having a heck of a time trying to find a piece of shit trailer that I can engineer into what I want.

Boat trailers are too long.

I'm running out of ideas of where to look.

have you a cutting torch?
A boat trailer can be cut down.
Or, bring it here, I'll cut it up for ya.

I see POS trailers, but very fixable, on CL for 100 bucks........
Moon has been searching, too, and found deals like that.
Heck, I've got a couple of axles if you want 'em, to build your own.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Larry is considering ordering a new trailer from Big Bubba's, with electric brakes, dual axle, and a locking tool box up front. Our current bed is 6x10 (I think), paid $1200 new, customized, it will be our trade-in. It has paid for itself in what we've saved in rentals, and useful as snot all year.

Well, more useful than snot.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:20 pm

Elliot wrote:
Some boat trailers have the axle assembly bolted to the frame. These are easy to shorten -- you just slide the axle assembly forward and re-bolt it, then cut off the excess frame. I have a single axle Vanson from 1972, like this. An other option is to offer to dispose of somebody's junk camping trailer. Some of these are only six feet wide. Lots of dirty work though, stripping those.

a friend stripped a camp trailer, with a sawzall, 12" demo blade, and a match.
he walked the inside, cutting cabinets and such off at the floor, walked around the outside, cutting the walls off at the floor, then, pushed/pulled the whole dang thing off.

it left a flat bed with linoleum.

then, the match.

a magnet the next day for nails and such, a rake for aluminum and copper..........

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:28 pm

I know a guy with a gutted camping foldup.
He uses it for carrying electronics to shows.
He says no one ever breaks into it.
Too low key.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:30 pm

A match....
You mean I did this all wrong, twice???

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:37 pm

Elliot wrote:
A match....
You mean I did this all wrong, twice???

never wrong, Elliot, just different.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:43 pm

And I did it with my bare hands. Well, gloved hands. These things fall apart like a well cooked salmon. Nothing but sawdust and staples.

For all those towing trailers...

think i need a spring upgrade for the rear of my car