So this is how liberty dies...

[graidawg]

The constitution claims that many of our rights are given by GOD,,,

Which is an interesting point of conversation, considering that "god" is a product of human imagination, which was no such power in reality.

JK

I'd say, for that point, "God" could be interpreted as "natual/nature".

or, spelled d-a-w-g.

[Simon of the Playa]

Simon, your stupidity is showing again,,, and you "shout" it out , no less. Chertoff is Russian. Semites are decedents of Noah's son , Shem. Most of them live around Jordan,,, generally. Most of the inhabitants of israel are European or Russian descent.
If you're referring to the talmud, it has no race. The talmud, the code of Hammurabi, the old testament have NO place in modern society. The code of Hammurabi demands death for a son who strikes his father. In Deuteronomy, the penalty for rape is to cut off the offending wang and smash the balls between 2 rocks.
These codicils have NO place in modern society.
I have nothing at all against the sons of Shem. My hatred against the actions of the state of israel has nothing to do with religion or race. Israeli actions against Palestine have everything to do with religion and race. Apparently, you find it easy to ignore genocide but, are offended by perceived racism.
DVD told me that you are intelligent. I'm going to have to whack that boy up against the side of the head.

i am intelligent. Far from Stupid.

more intelligent than you, no doubt.

so take your name calling and shove it up your pea sized brain you piece of shit.

[Elderberry]

The constitution claims that many of our rights are given by GOD,,,

Which is an interesting point of conversation, considering that "god" is a product of human imagination, which was no such power in reality.

JK

I'd say, for that point, "God" could be interpreted as "natual/nature".

or, spelled d-a-w-g.

People have no rights other than those they decide to assign to themselves. And that which is assigned can also be unassigned.

JK

[graidawg]

Simon, your stupidity is showing again,,, and you "shout" it out , no less. Chertoff is Russian. Semites are decedents of Noah's son , Shem. Most of them live around Jordan,,, generally. Most of the inhabitants of israel are European or Russian descent.
If you're referring to the talmud, it has no race. The talmud, the code of Hammurabi, the old testament have NO place in modern society. The code of Hammurabi demands death for a son who strikes his father. In Deuteronomy, the penalty for rape is to cut off the offending wang and smash the balls between 2 rocks.
These codicils have NO place in modern society.
I have nothing at all against the sons of Shem. My hatred against the actions of the state of israel has nothing to do with religion or race. Israeli actions against Palestine have everything to do with religion and race. Apparently, you find it easy to ignore genocide but, are offended by perceived racism.
DVD told me that you are intelligent. I'm going to have to whack that boy up against the side of the head.

I though can't sit still that iwould look up this code of Hammurabi you mention. and the one specific 'fact' you mention is clearly wrong
The last paragraph of this section (section 195) states the punishment for children who strike their father as the cutting off of the hand. also the code refers to the laws of babylon not the law of moses which is admittedly similar

it seems there was room for interpretation to
The next division (sections 196-227) occupies itself with wounding of all kinds, in the first place with the jus talionis: an eye for an eye, a bone for a bone, a tooth for a tooth. Persons lower in the social grade usually accepted money instead (sections 196 ff)
in fact having read this synopsis i would say it is the basis of modern justice
The fact that law and religion are nearly always distinctly separated is worthy of special attention.
the rape bit in deuteronomy you refer to?
chapter 22.But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die

nothing about castration or smashing with rocks. Nor could i find other more specific references

Please if you are going to accuse someone of being stupid check your facts else you make yourself look the stupid one.

If you want I could continue looking at your 'facts' but i suspect your hatred of israel will blind you to reasonable arguement. for example palestines suspected terrorist links to the taliban in afghanistan?

And to be even handed

simon


i am intelligent. Far from Stupid.

more intelligent than you, no doubt.

so take your name calling and shove it up your pea sized brain you piece of shit.

this does not enhance your reputation

Radical Inclusion
Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community.

sorry i get very angry when people talk about HATE when they aren't there its like me telling people how to burn

[Elderberry]

Simon, your stupidity is showing again,,, and you "shout" it out , no less. Chertoff is Russian. Semites are decedents of Noah's son , Shem. Most of them live around Jordan,,, generally. Most of the inhabitants of israel are European or Russian descent.
If you're referring to the talmud, it has no race. The talmud, the code of Hammurabi, the old testament have NO place in modern society. The code of Hammurabi demands death for a son who strikes his father. In Deuteronomy, the penalty for rape is to cut off the offending wang and smash the balls between 2 rocks.
These codicils have NO place in modern society.
I have nothing at all against the sons of Shem. My hatred against the actions of the state of israel has nothing to do with religion or race. Israeli actions against Palestine have everything to do with religion and race. Apparently, you find it easy to ignore genocide but, are offended by perceived racism.
DVD told me that you are intelligent. I'm going to have to whack that boy up against the side of the head.

I though can't sit still that iwould look up this code of Hammurabi you mention. and the one specific 'fact' you mention is clearly wrong
The last paragraph of this section (section 195) states the punishment for children who strike their father as the cutting off of the hand. also the code refers to the laws of babylon not the law of moses which is admittedly similar

it seems there was room for interpretation to
The next division (sections 196-227) occupies itself with wounding of all kinds, in the first place with the jus talionis: an eye for an eye, a bone for a bone, a tooth for a tooth. Persons lower in the social grade usually accepted money instead (sections 196 ff)
in fact having read this synopsis i would say it is the basis of modern justice
The fact that law and religion are nearly always distinctly separated is worthy of special attention.
the rape bit in deuteronomy you refer to?
chapter 22.But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die

nothing about castration or smashing with rocks. Nor could i find other more specific references

Please if you are going to accuse someone of being stupid check your facts else you make yourself look the stupid one.

If you want I could continue looking at your 'facts' but i suspect your hatred of israel will blind you to reasonable arguement. for example palestines suspected terrorist links to the taliban in afghanistan?

And to be even handed

simon


i am intelligent. Far from Stupid.

more intelligent than you, no doubt.

so take your name calling and shove it up your pea sized brain you piece of shit.

this does not enhance your reputation

Radical Inclusion
Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community.

sorry i get very angry when people talk about HATE when they aren't there its like me telling people how to burn

I thought you were taking a vacation from eplaya for awhile.

JK

[graidawg]

I was but i changed my mind - think i posted about it in the fuck thread, besides my tv is really shit only 4 watchable channells

[Simon of the Playa]

thanks graidawg for your defense on my behalf.

CSS is a permanent annoyance that is now plonkified.


as far as my reputation goes, it does not matter, i do not care what people think of me.

[can't sit still]

graidawg, my quotes from Hammurabi and Deuteronomy are verbatim from the sources that I read some years ago. I'm certain that there are variances in these documents,,, just as there are variances in different versions of the bible. Whether or not these quotes are verbatim to the original document has no relevance to my original claim;
simon's stupid claim of anti-semitism. I am against the actions of israel. I am also against the genocide that took place in Bosnia. I am against the genocide that took place in Rwanda. I am against the genocide that took place in Tibet. I am against the genocide that took place in Ireland. I am against the genocide that took place in India. I am against the genocide that took place in America [red indians]
The religion of the murderers in the various cases is varied. I don't cite religion.
I didn't cite the religion of Chertoff. I didn't cite the religion connected with the talmud. I grouped it with other codes of law without citing the religion of any.
I leave religion out of it. There are good and bad practitioners of every religion. Why would I generalize about practitioners of a certain religion.
As far as I can discover, there are NO good practitioners of genocide.

[Trishntek]

JK wrote:

People have no rights other than those they decide to assign to themselves. And that which is assigned can also be unassigned.

So you would say the same about wild animals and the rest of the universe?

It was made plain by the founders that the rights inalienable by God are the rights of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This God referred to was the general belief in a Creator,,,, no mention whether it was Allah, Jehovah or Zeus. Where is religion in that line of thought?

Life is the basic right to exist.

Liberty is the right to interact with your environment without intervention.

Pursuit of happiness is simply the opportunity to do what pleases and satisfies.

How is that different than any other being in nature?

[ygmir]

yup, and, I see society in the U.S. being more and more willing to trade "liberty" for degrees of not just "persuing" happiness, but, a guarantee of catching it, to some extent.

I think that's a big part of "the problem":
Folks want to much guaranteed for their lives, and provided by others.
And, are willing to trade their (and my) liberties for it.

[Elderberry]

JK wrote:

People have no rights other than those they decide to assign to themselves. And that which is assigned can also be unassigned.

So you would say the same about wild animals and the rest of the universe?

It was made plain by the founders that the rights inalienable by God are the rights of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This God referred to was the general belief in a Creator,,,, no mention whether it was Allah, Jehovah or Zeus. Where is religion in that line of thought?

Life is the basic right to exist.

Liberty is the right to interact with your environment without intervention.

Pursuit of happiness is simply the opportunity to do what pleases and satisfies.

How is that different than any other being in nature?

Watch any nature channel on TV and you will see that these concepts do not exist in nature. Unless you think getting eaten for dinner is a right to exist or a right to happiness, unless of course you were the one eating dinner.

[can't sit still]

Another right that isn't mentioned quite as often; the right to defend ones self. I believe that my right to defend myself supersedes the right to pursuit of happiness of someone who wants to stab me in the back. Self-defense has to be pretty close to the top of the list.

[Trishntek]

JK wrote:

Watch any nature channel on TV and you will see that these concepts do not exist in nature. Unless you think getting eaten for dinner is a right to exist or a right to happiness, unless of course you were the one eating dinner.
_________________
JK

Give your head a shake! Those rights do not guarantee positive outcomes! Bugs exist to feed bats,,, but for the day or two they exist,,, they fuck like,,,, like,,,, bugs! They still EXIST, INTERACT, and PURSUE. The wildebeest calf that gets eaten has the same opportunity as the other calves. There are no guarantees of success,,,, the fundamental principle is Opportunity and Pursuit!

[Trishntek]

Another right that isn't mentioned quite as often; the right to defend ones self. I believe that my right to defend myself supersedes the right to pursuit of happiness of someone who wants to stab me in the back. Self-defense has to be pretty close to the top of the list.

Well the Declaration of Independence simply laid a FOUNDATION upon which everything else SHOULD be based. If you aren't allowed to EXIST, nothing else really matters. Therefore, selfs defense applies.

Your LIBERTY ends when it intervenes with someone else's liberty. Protection of private property applies.

Your PURSUIT of happiness is the only right which depends upon your own willingness, creativity, abilities and the limitations of your existence and liberties.

This fundamental foundation,,,, when applied in its purest form,,,, is genius!

[can't sit still]

This is an excellent article on fascism in america.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/pilger/pilger92.1.html

[Trishntek]

The Institute for Propaganda Analysis, founded in 1937 to educate the public about the nature of propaganda, identified "seven basic propaganda devices: Name-Calling, Glittering Generality, Transfer, Testimonial, Plain Folks, Card Stacking, and Band Wagon."

http://www.swans.com/library/art7/ga120.html

[can't sit still]

This came in mail and i haven't researched it yet.

"JAPAN ABOUT TO PASS LAW TO ALLOW WARRANTLESS SEARCH OF RESIDENCES FOR TAX PURPOSES
According to an article in a local Tokyo newspaper, The Japanese government is set to pass a law that will allow tax collectors to enter
a person's home or office without a warrant to search their premises for evidence of tax evasion, if they believe someone has not paid their taxes.
That is bad enough but can anyone see the precedent being set here? This is the slippery slope to allowing Big Brother to enter your home for this, that, or any
other phoney reason in the future. Or this could be used to search under false pretense. Of course, the mega corporations that DO NOT PAY ANY TAXES will be exempt from this law. Rw"

[Trishntek]

Not sure if Japan has something like the Fourth Amendment,

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Though I'm sure some fuckwit lawyer could argue some bullshit about "National Security" to make the Patriot Act applicable.

[can't sit still]

Real ID,,, coming right at you;
http://current.com/news/93028205_in-les ... d-card.htm

[Elderberry]

Real ID,,, coming right at you;
http://current.com/news/93028205_in-les ... d-card.htm

I doubt this has a chance of hell in ever happening here, unfortunately.

[Trishntek]

that's why I placed my order for more ammo today,,, I figure it won't be an option soon.

[ygmir]

have you considered re-loading?

[Elderberry]

I don't know why just the words "national identification card" gets everybody's panties in a bunch. Everybody in the country already has a Social Security Card. The only difference is that it would now come with a picture on it. Make sure you smile pretty!

[Trishntek]

have you considered re-loading?

I used to reload when I lived in Wyoming. My huntin' buddy had the press and I simply bought the dies for my weapons. I moved away and left him the tools, brass and whatever primers were left. Since I don't hunt these days, I've just never considered it. But maybe it's time, eh?

Besides, it's a case of 12 ga. 00 buck that I ordered. well and a few rounds of HP for the .38 and .32 auto,,,, shhhhhhh don't tell anybody

[ygmir]

well, they're all reloadable.........not that it's necessary for cost savings, although, it is pretty substantial.
But, it gives you the option to make your own ammo, if buying it becomes "tough".
The stuff can be had cheap at yard sales and what not, if you don't mind using older equipment. Works fine.

[can't sit still]

jk, the question arises; does a law-abiding American have anything to fear from GOV? Of course he does. Abuse of authority is an every day occurrence. Taxing abuse is normal too. Obviously the card can't have a gps without a power supply. Should one get nervous if GOV knows one's location at any moment?

[Trishntek]

I don't know why just the words "national identification card" gets everybody's panties in a bunch. Everybody in the country already has a Social Security Card. The only difference is that it would now come with a picture on it. Make sure you smile pretty!

C'mon JK,,,, I'm sure your original SS card states on the bottom of it, "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES". I know mine does and you are MUCH older than I am.

You like the idea of being stopped in Primmm on your way to Vegas and being demanded to show your papers before interstate travel is allowed? Can you say, "PAPERS PLEASE!" with a heavy German accent?

We are citizens of States,,, we are not citizens of the U.S.A. Article IV, section 2 of the Constitution reads:

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

edited to add,,,, since I was reading, and just so ya know, Section 4 of Article IV says:

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

[Elderberry]

I don't know why just the words "national identification card" gets everybody's panties in a bunch. Everybody in the country already has a Social Security Card. The only difference is that it would now come with a picture on it. Make sure you smile pretty!

C'mon JK,,,, I'm sure your original SS card states on the bottom of it, "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES". I know mine does and you are MUCH older than I am.

You like the idea of being stopped in Primmm on your way to Vegas and being demanded to show your papers before interstate travel is allowed? Can you say, "PAPERS PLEASE!" with a heavy German accent?

We are citizens of States,,, we are not citizens of the U.S.A. Article IV, section 2 of the Constitution reads:

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime.

I'm so old my social security number only has five digits!

I really like the fact that you know and quote the constitution. (I'm not poking fun.)

However I don't see how a national ID Card would in any way violate that part of the constitution. Your example takes it to one possible, but not very probable conclusion. I guess I put more faith in our government than you do, but it's always nice to know somebody's got my back in case I'm wrong.

Oh, and if we are citizens only of a state, why do we pledge allegiance to the "united states of america"? Doesn't the united states imply nation, which would just seem to say there would be nothing wrong or unconstitutional in having a "national" ID.

[Trishntek]

Basically, it is just another move to usurp individual State's authority. We have passports for international travel and State issued I.D.'s. The only reason for national I.D. is for MORE FEDERAL CONTROL!

[Trishntek]

well, they're all reloadable.........not that it's necessary for cost savings, although, it is pretty substantial.
But, it gives you the option to make your own ammo, if buying it becomes "tough".
The stuff can be had cheap at yard sales and what not, if you don't mind using older equipment. Works fine.

I'm thinking maybe it's time to look into it. Thanks for the encouragement!