So this is how liberty dies...

[Elderberry]

Basically, it is just another move to usurp individual State's authority. We have passports for international travel and State issued I.D.'s. The only reason for national I.D. is for MORE FEDERAL CONTROL!

OK Then make it mandatory that every US citizen get a passport, maybe right along with when they get their SSAN.

[can't sit still]

GOV ,,, the corporatocracy loves to stomp on those who would oppose it's agenda. This includes "-- for many decades against human rights, labor, anti-war and civil liberties activists. "
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/0 ... 673194.php

[Lassen Forge]

Lotsa countries have what we call "internal passports"... With the new federalized state drivers licenses (NOW you know why they've changed so much) we have the same thing. In some states, you must have a valid ID with you at all times (guess which one we pretty much all head out to pretty much every year has this requirement??)...

Your passport (or passport card) serves the same function as the "internal passport" when you're traveling overseas... that's why you need to carry it - one, it identifys you and where you're from, two, you were granted permission from your government to be there, and three, that your rights as a citizen should be as respected there as much as their citizens are.

But anyway, you (unless you don't have a drivers license or state issued ID card) already *have* your federal ID card, and it's just one step closer to a full-on federal identification program, requiring their permit, er, card to do ANY transaction. Hell, it's already there... you have to *prove* your identity (through various federal ID cards) to get a bank account to get that ATM card, and to get a job to put federal money into your account... in essence, you're already *in* the system, whether you like it or not. Probably DEEPLY in.

And have been for years. Anyway, it's just another inching (or footing) from becoming a soverign citizen of a soverign state joined by treaty to 49 other states (in the US anyway) to being a faceless number, in essence a serf supplier of "pig feed" (through your taxes) for a megalithic corporation that, in fact, owns you. And your reward is to call yourself "a free citizen". They allow you to do that. And their subject administrative Regions (used to be called "states") follow suit quite nicely.

Oh yeah, and be subject to their rules outside of their jurisdiction. Doubt that? Go buy a cuban cigar and declare it at customs. Or be a Californian, and try to legally buy a firearm, using your California ID, in a firearm dealer in any other state.

Anyway, time to go "do my patriotic duty" and slop them hogs... er... file my taxes. And I won't EVEN go there on that.

Have a tightly controlled happy day, and don't forget... you're a Patriot. And if you don't comply, you're an evildoer, subject to incarceration. Wheeee...

[Elderberry]

Lotsa countries have what we call "internal passports"... With the new federalized state drivers licenses (NOW you know why they've changed so much) we have the same thing. In some states, you must have a valid ID with you at all times (guess which one we pretty much all head out to pretty much every year has this requirement??)...

Your passport (or passport card) serves the same function as the "internal passport" when you're traveling overseas... that's why you need to carry it - one, it identifys you and where you're from, two, you were granted permission from your government to be there, and three, that your rights as a citizen should be as respected there as much as their citizens are.

But anyway, you (unless you don't have a drivers license or state issued ID card) already *have* your federal ID card, and it's just one step closer to a full-on federal identification program, requiring their permit, er, card to do ANY transaction. Hell, it's already there... you have to *prove* your identity (through various federal ID cards) to get a bank account to get that ATM card, and to get a job to put federal money into your account... in essence, you're already *in* the system, whether you like it or not. Probably DEEPLY in.

And have been for years. Anyway, it's just another inching (or footing) from becoming a soverign citizen of a soverign state joined by treaty to 49 other states (in the US anyway) to being a faceless number, in essence a serf supplier of "pig feed" (through your taxes) for a megalithic corporation that, in fact, owns you. And your reward is to call yourself "a free citizen". They allow you to do that. And their subject administrative Regions (used to be called "states") follow suit quite nicely.

Oh yeah, and be subject to their rules outside of their jurisdiction. Doubt that? Go buy a cuban cigar and declare it at customs. Or be a Californian, and try to legally buy a firearm, using your California ID, in a firearm dealer in any other state.

Anyway, time to go "do my patriotic duty" and slop them hogs... er... file my taxes. And I won't EVEN go there on that.

Have a tightly controlled happy day, and don't forget... you're a Patriot. And if you don't comply, you're an evildoer, subject to incarceration. Wheeee...

Is this more the fault of government or progress in the electronic age? Do you know that some people still use paper checks in the grocery check out line? They're all over 70 years old.

[Lassen Forge]

Those checks are digitally copied, processed electronically, and run through the same account you needed that government ID to open.

It's the ADM of government. The electronic age isn't at fault - it's just made the conversion from confederation of individual state to monolithic empire, and the conversion of Free Individual to Property of the Empire easier.

Funny how 9-11 came along right at the right time - to enable the empire to absorb all. Bush Sr. WAS company, Clinton set up the dominoes, and Junior was put there (like the dupe in an elaborate con game) to run it after the dominoes were set in motion, first for his dad's buds, then for he that followed. Mmmm??

(Had the key player not been on the government payroll at one time, it wouldn't make me ill... for, you know, there IS a saying, "you don't quit the company.")

Question - We didn't send the Navy to Egypt. Why are they going to Libya? Bet you can answer that one.

[Elderberry]

Question - We didn't send the Navy to Egypt. Why are they going to Libya? Bet you can answer that one.

Because Kadafi is massacring the protestors? I'm sure you have a more interesting answer. And I bet you can't wait for the UN to be ruling the entire world, right?

[Lassen Forge]

Question - We didn't send the Navy to Egypt. Why are they going to Libya? Bet you can answer that one.

Because Kadafi is massacring the protestors?

Then why only Lybia? Why not Gaza? Just curious...

I'm sure you have a more interesting answer.

I could come up with a boatload of different answers - sociologically, morally, economically, etc... but then again, if I said the "o" word (which is the interesting answer I think you may be waiting for) it's highly irrelevant.

And I bet you can't wait for the UN to be ruling the entire world, right?

Not that you're right (you're not), but how did you reach that conclusion?

[Simon of the Playa]

who the fuck cares about this shit?

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, there is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT SHIT HAPPENING, PEOPLE!!!


























Charlie Sheen is doing an Interview with Geraldo tonight in Al Capone's Vault.

loser-losers.

[Lassen Forge]

Oh FUCK... we almost missed Charlie on GeralNarcohypnosis with a moustache.

Thanks for the heads up. How's Chris Aguilera's thing going? Think she'll get that show started, take Oprah's old time slot?

Phew... almost denegrated into international events. We've been SAVED.... (Say Amen, Opie.)

[Simon of the Playa]

OMG!

the history channel has a story about REAL LIVE RECORDINGS OF HELL!!!


it's the history channel, it has to be true...


i have a real live recording of helco, but thats not for public consumption.

[H.G.Crosby]

charlie is deeper than all this.

[Elderberry]

Then why only Lybia? Why not Gaza? Just curious...

Gaza!? How dare you, the Jews are our friends! We all know the Palestinians are the bad guys.

I could come up with a boatload of different answers - sociologically, morally, economically, etc... but then again, if I said the "o" word (which is the interesting answer I think you may be waiting for) it's highly irrelevant.

If by the "o" word you were referring to Obama, then it wasn't close to what I was expecting, though I would like to hear your thinking on this.

Not that you're right (you're not), but how did you reach that conclusion?

Because I haven't had a lot of back and forth with you and sometimes your posts are vague in their meaning. So, I asked that question/assumption to get a better insight of where you are coming from based on your answer.

[Trishntek]

SOtP's cynicism does demonstrate a sad state of affairs. An entire region of the planet is in a state of chaos, debt is the fastest growing part of our economy, soldiers are dying for a tribal wasteland, pirates get away with mayhem and our society is so engrossed with a royal wedding and the implosion of a manic narcissist that nothing else seems to matter! WTF?

[Elderberry]

SOtP's cynicism does demonstrate a sad state of affairs. An entire region of the planet is in a state of chaos, debt is the fastest growing part of our economy, soldiers are dying for a tribal wasteland, pirates get away with mayhem and our society is so engrossed with a royal wedding and the implosion of a manic narcissist that nothing else seems to matter! WTF?

You hit the nail right on the head.

My five point plan:

• Bring back the draft.
  Institute a war tax of 10% of each persons gross pay per war we enter into.
  Get rid of the tax loop holes for corporations.
  Heavily tax EACH speculative high-speed computer trade made on Wall Street.
  Balance the budget by raising the taxes on the wealthy.
  Streamline government based on the GAO report posted elsewhere on eplaya recently.

Yes, my five point plan has more than five points.

[ygmir]

SOtP's cynicism does demonstrate a sad state of affairs. An entire region of the planet is in a state of chaos, debt is the fastest growing part of our economy, soldiers are dying for a tribal wasteland, pirates get away with mayhem and our society is so engrossed with a royal wedding and the implosion of a manic narcissist that nothing else seems to matter! WTF?

You hit the nail right on the head.

My five point plan:

• Bring back the draft.
  Institute a war tax of 10% of each persons gross pay per war we enter into.
  Get rid of the tax loop holes for corporations.
  Heavily tax EACH speculative high-speed computer trade made on Wall Street.
  Balance the budget by raising the taxes on the wealthy.
  Streamline government based on the GAO report posted elsewhere on eplaya recently.

Yes, my five point plan has more than five points.

yes, comrade, it does have more than five points.

[can't sit still]

JK, without trying to sound TOO critical, I have a couple of requests.
Instead of instituting the draft,,, stop the wars.

The corporation thing is a BIG problem. They work overtime looking for loopholes. 1/3 of the CONSIDERABLE cash in corporations is held off-shore.

The high-speed trades are often only making a few cents each. The problem is that the big banks are front-running all the other investors. The front-running should be abolished.

Raising the taxes on the wealthy is always a popular idea. It never works out as planned. There has to be some scheme to tax the speculative transactions at a higher rate that one taxes the investing transactions.

Streaming the GOV would severely diminish jobs. Look at this list and tell me how much of it we need. Tell me what all the displaced people are going to do.
http://www.colonelpete.com/any-wonder-w ... -is-broke/

I am not saying we shouldn't streamline GOV.
One of the main points that I try to make on the "winter" thread is that the country needs far fewer of it's available workers that it now employs. We did great for years as a manufacturing power house. How do we maintain that in the face of low wage competition?
I'm not trying to run-down anyone's ideas. I just believe that any plans have to take into account the competitive reality.

[LLQchasm]

SOtP's cynicism does demonstrate a sad state of affairs. An entire region of the planet is in a state of chaos, debt is the fastest growing part of our economy, soldiers are dying for a tribal wasteland, pirates get away with mayhem and our society is so engrossed with a royal wedding and the implosion of a manic narcissist that nothing else seems to matter! WTF?

I wish there was a way of fixing this without blood, but I don't believe that it is possible anymore. I have been training for the day that feds will hunt me with attack dogs in the wild using night scopes and infrared. I have Navy personnel helping and one is a former Green Beret from the army... learning how to defeat scent, heat signatures and using methods for staying invisible. I believe that the time will come when police officers will have to be shot for freedom's sake. I don't worry about the accumulating debt. The higher it gets, the closer it brings us to a revolution and the wiping of that debt. The debt is just a bargaining chip used by the wealthy to get you into slavery (aka the workforce). If you don't submit, it means nothing. You should already be prepared to survive out in the wilderness with no food stamps, welfare, etc. If people are still thinking that the govt is going to save them like they did during Katrina, I feel sorry for them.

Don't let them take your guns or it will be all over. Make them shoot you to get your guns and make sure you shoot those cops dead. Shoot enough of them and it is no longer a crime, but a civil war.

[Elderberry]

JK, without trying to sound TOO critical, I have a couple of requests.
Instead of instituting the draft,,, stop the wars.

The corporation thing is a BIG problem. They work overtime looking for loopholes. 1/3 of the CONSIDERABLE cash in corporations is held off-shore.

The high-speed trades are often only making a few cents each. The problem is that the big banks are front-running all the other investors. The front-running should be abolished.

Raising the taxes on the wealthy is always a popular idea. It never works out as planned. There has to be some scheme to tax the speculative transactions at a higher rate that one taxes the investing transactions.

Streaming the GOV would severely diminish jobs. Look at this list and tell me how much of it we need. Tell me what all the displaced people are going to do.
http://www.colonelpete.com/any-wonder-w ... -is-broke/

I am not saying we shouldn't streamline GOV.
One of the main points that I try to make on the "winter" thread is that the country needs far fewer of it's available workers that it now employs. We did great for years as a manufacturing power house. How do we maintain that in the face of low wage competition?
I'm not trying to run-down anyone's ideas. I just believe that any plans have to take into account the competitive reality.

With your final statement you have managed to sum-up the entire problem with government...everyone has a different view of reality.

Regarding the war tax--let's just say that the average middle class salary is $50,000.00 per year. If they all got a bill in the mail for $10,000.00 to cover the cost of the wars, do you not think that the current wars would end post haste? The only reason they are still going on is that our general population is not feeling the pain. Once it hurts, not only will they demand withdrawal from the current wars, but congress nor the president will ever again be able to declare war without the public being behind it 100%, and are truly willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Same effect of re-instituting the draft, with two years of service mandatory. Parents are pretty protective of their kids.

Regarding corporations, I should say my company is a C Corp. and I take advantage of everything I can, including choosing the state in which I have incorporated. So, as long as it's subject to interpretation by the tax code, I'll continue to push the interpretations to the limit. However, if the laws were to change, I'd pony up and pay my fair share too. But you are right, lots to be reformed here.

Just cancelling the Bush cuts for the upper 2% would be a good start on taxing high earners.

That's a long list. But it's a state list and I'm more concerned with the Federal Budget. But I can tell you I'd make big cuts in military spending across the board. And foreign aid would be cut big time. I'd really not worry about cutting anything from discretionary spending. I'd make big cuts in Medicare and Then I'd start on Social Security adjustments. And in a perfect world, I'd implement a true public health care plan covering all Americans.

Then Big tax increases on the wealthy.

And to top it all off a Balanced Budget amendment to the constitution.

But what do I know?

[Elderberry]

SOtP's cynicism does demonstrate a sad state of affairs. An entire region of the planet is in a state of chaos, debt is the fastest growing part of our economy, soldiers are dying for a tribal wasteland, pirates get away with mayhem and our society is so engrossed with a royal wedding and the implosion of a manic narcissist that nothing else seems to matter! WTF?

I wish there was a way of fixing this without blood, but I don't believe that it is possible anymore. I have been training for the day that feds will hunt me with attack dogs in the wild using night scopes and infrared. I have Navy personnel helping and one is a former Green Beret from the army... learning how to defeat scent, heat signatures and using methods for staying invisible. I believe that the time will come when police officers will have to be shot for freedom's sake. I don't worry about the accumulating debt. The higher it gets, the closer it brings us to a revolution and the wiping of that debt. The debt is just a bargaining chip used by the wealthy to get you into slavery (aka the workforce). If you don't submit, it means nothing. You should already be prepared to survive out in the wilderness with no food stamps, welfare, etc. If people are still thinking that the govt is going to save them like they did during Katrina, I feel sorry for them.

Don't let them take your guns or it will be all over. Make them shoot you to get your guns and make sure you shoot those cops dead. Shoot enough of them and it is no longer a crime, but a civil war.

No offense, but that's crazy talk in my world.

[LLQchasm]

SOtP's cynicism does demonstrate a sad state of affairs. An entire region of the planet is in a state of chaos, debt is the fastest growing part of our economy, soldiers are dying for a tribal wasteland, pirates get away with mayhem and our society is so engrossed with a royal wedding and the implosion of a manic narcissist that nothing else seems to matter! WTF?

I wish there was a way of fixing this without blood, but I don't believe that it is possible anymore. I have been training for the day that feds will hunt me with attack dogs in the wild using night scopes and infrared. I have Navy personnel helping and one is a former Green Beret from the army... learning how to defeat scent, heat signatures and using methods for staying invisible. I believe that the time will come when police officers will have to be shot for freedom's sake. I don't worry about the accumulating debt. The higher it gets, the closer it brings us to a revolution and the wiping of that debt. The debt is just a bargaining chip used by the wealthy to get you into slavery (aka the workforce). If you don't submit, it means nothing. You should already be prepared to survive out in the wilderness with no food stamps, welfare, etc. If people are still thinking that the govt is going to save them like they did during Katrina, I feel sorry for them.

Don't let them take your guns or it will be all over. Make them shoot you to get your guns and make sure you shoot those cops dead. Shoot enough of them and it is no longer a crime, but a civil war.

No offense, but that's crazy talk in my world.

Indeed it would be, but my world is Libya. It hasn't got to you yet.

[Trishntek]

SOtP's cynicism does demonstrate a sad state of affairs. An entire region of the planet is in a state of chaos, debt is the fastest growing part of our economy, soldiers are dying for a tribal wasteland, pirates get away with mayhem and our society is so engrossed with a royal wedding and the implosion of a manic narcissist that nothing else seems to matter! WTF?

I wish there was a way of fixing this without blood, but I don't believe that it is possible anymore. I have been training for the day that feds will hunt me with attack dogs in the wild using night scopes and infrared. I have Navy personnel helping and one is a former Green Beret from the army... learning how to defeat scent, heat signatures and using methods for staying invisible. I believe that the time will come when police officers will have to be shot for freedom's sake. I don't worry about the accumulating debt. The higher it gets, the closer it brings us to a revolution and the wiping of that debt. The debt is just a bargaining chip used by the wealthy to get you into slavery (aka the workforce). If you don't submit, it means nothing. You should already be prepared to survive out in the wilderness with no food stamps, welfare, etc. If people are still thinking that the govt is going to save them like they did during Katrina, I feel sorry for them.

Don't let them take your guns or it will be all over. Make them shoot you to get your guns and make sure you shoot those cops dead. Shoot enough of them and it is no longer a crime, but a civil war.

LLQchasm,,,, there is a "SURVIVAL" thread which is more fitting for what you mention here. Not that I disagree with what you are saying,,, I just thought you may not have noticed the other thread.

[LLQchasm]

LLQchasm,,,, there is a "SURVIVAL" thread which is more fitting for what you mention here. Not that I disagree with what you are saying,,, I just thought you may not have noticed the other thread.

Playa art, it imitates life...

[Simon of the Playa]

IT'S TIME TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS COUNTRY

[Roberto Dobbisano]

yup.

[Elderberry]

IT'S TIME TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS COUNTRY

Interesting. I'm not so opposed to the body scan of pedestrians at certain venues. But I am against the images showing so much detail--especially because it isn't necessary. A simple bit of programming could show only suspicious items on the body. There is no need to show the complete picture.

[graidawg]

IT'S TIME TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS COUNTRY

Interesting. I'm not so opposed to the body scan of pedestrians at certain venues. But I am against the images showing so much detail--especially because it isn't necessary. A simple bit of programming could show only suspicious items on the body. There is no need to show the complete picture.

it does say suspicious metal items, though it is intrusive and to be honest mostly pointless in a country where people can own and carry all kinds of firearms. Now in the uk that would not only be probably useful but also probably going to be used (and its legal we can be searched without cause) in fact i would welcome it in parts of london.

[LLQchasm]

IT'S TIME TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS COUNTRY

Interesting. I'm not so opposed to the body scan of pedestrians at certain venues. But I am against the images showing so much detail--especially because it isn't necessary. A simple bit of programming could show only suspicious items on the body. There is no need to show the complete picture.

Forget what they see... have people forgotten how harmful x-rays can be to your health? Privacy is unimportant compared to the x-rays that cause genetic defects that can lead to free radical induced cancers. A few exposures is not likely to do enough damage, but the results are cumulative. This is why when you go to the doctor for an x-ray, they put a heavy lead protective vest/cover over areas not being examined and the button for the x-ray is outside of the room so that medical professionals do no irradiate themselves too much during the course of their careers. Simply lining your vehicles/clothes with lead will cause you to be "invisible" to such technology. Why isn't health an issue here?

[Simon of the Playa]

IT'S TIME TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS COUNTRY

Interesting. I'm not so opposed to the body scan of pedestrians at certain venues. But I am against the images showing so much detail--especially because it isn't necessary. A simple bit of programming could show only suspicious items on the body. There is no need to show the complete picture.

thats ILLEGAL SEARCH AND SEIZURE......huge fucking DUH!

WTF? who ARE you Kisha?

[LLQchasm]

IT'S TIME TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS COUNTRY

Why don't you stand up and fight? Has everyone become a pussy in this country? Try to make the French work more than 32 hours in a week and they riot, but here in the USA we cook up "freedom fries" in defiance of the French. Stupid Americans. Who is more free? At this point it isn't the USA.

[Elderberry]

Then I guess they should be illegal at airports too then? Still don't think anything is wrong with their use at specific and announced venues. Then you can make sure you don't have anything illegal on your person as you are protesting the illegal search and seizure.