The best way to tie down a shade structure

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:11 pm

CapSmashy wrote:Actually, the Star Tent has some big top, circus tent style ground stakes.

Hey Cap. Great to see you checking in.....

ourania · Post by **ourania** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:49 pm

What constitutes a circus tent style ground stake? Would it be stronger than rebar?
Hmmmm, big top circus stakes would mean I can't just get any old boy to pull them out, it'll have to be a circus freak boy. How am I going to find one of those on the playa?!

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:26 pm

ourania wrote:What constitutes a circus tent style ground stake? Would it be stronger than rebar?
Hmmmm, big top circus stakes would mean I can't just get any old boy to pull them out, it'll have to be a circus freak boy. How am I going to find one of those on the playa?!

No. You will need a funt to pull them with his trunk.. You will have to clean up behind him on the playa.. I suggest rebar..

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:59 pm

Circus tent stakes *are* #18 rebar.

Try asking for that at Homo Depot.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:11 am

Bob wrote:Circus tent stakes *are* #18 rebar.

Try asking for that at Homo Depot.

Bob's right just go look. re-bar is cheep and easy to find.

The star shade uses special Powder Coated Stakes 30" long $22.16 each.

Made with an end to fit the shoe on the foot of the tent.
Itâ€™s has itâ€™s own stake puller made for the stakes. (with vice grips snapped to it I pull my 3 and 4 foot re-bar.

Bounce530 · Post by **Bounce530** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:31 am

Now what are the tips/tricks to keep the trap/netting/parachute/etc attached? Cause surely we're not just using the stock little grommet holes...or are you?

Oldguy · Post by **Oldguy** » Sat May 09, 2009 2:10 am

An old trick that scouts use is a bag of marbles and a roll of bailing twine and a bed sheet..

Gather material over marble and tie shut with twine, tie twine to stake at 45 degree angle. Tie second piece of twine over same marble and tie to stake in other direction at 45 creating 90 degrees between lines. If you dont want to cut your twine , just go from stake to marble, to stake to marble, etc... around edge of cover. No grommet is needed and tarp is uncut. Tight weave bed sheets from thrift store work fine for shade, and are less noisy than polyester tarps. ( at end of event just put marbles in bag, roll up twine, and fold your sheet. )

Use tarps with rope edging, tie points using rope edge instead of grommets are stronger, put less stress on fabric.

If using plastic tarps, add grommets to tarp edges to spread loads more evenly. Grommet repair kits are cheap.

Camo nets and cargo nets usually have rope edges. Layering or folding nets doubles shade and gives pleasant dappled effect.

I use a failsafe rope crisscrossed over shade structure and ancored with civil war style wrought iron candycanes. It is an old 120 foot climbing rope that I also use to secure my traveling load on my trailer.

Ps. In the old days we would cut our stakes on site in the woods and burn up in our stakes in the last fire. We would burn our trash and bury the burnt cans. Nowadays you can't cut wood, burn trash, or bury cans.

________________
edited to add Ps.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:36 am

if anyone need weights, I've been filling plastic gallon jugs with concrete so you can tie through the handle and carry them easily.
if anyone wants some, I'm happy to share.

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Sat May 09, 2009 7:49 am

ibdave wrote:
CapSmashy wrote:Actually, the Star Tent has some big top, circus tent style ground stakes.
Hey Cap. Great to see you checking in.....

Been a busy year so far.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:18 pm

Bounce530 wrote:Now what are the tips/tricks to keep the trap/netting/parachute/etc attached? Cause surely we're not just using the stock little grommet holes...or are you?

I've been somewhat addicted to shelter systems grip clips.. but on a cheaper budget the harbor freight clamps work fine.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Sat May 09, 2009 12:33 pm

wouldn't want to slice up the circus style tent..but for flat tarps facing the wind...I'd put down 12inch pieces of duct tape around the tarp, then slice 10inch cuts inside the duct tape....and through the tarp...with a box cutter. Reduces the wind load and allows for airflow. just my 2 cents...

ourania · Post by **ourania** » Sun May 10, 2009 7:07 am

These are great ideas. I think the boy scout trick will work without putting too much strain on existing grommets. I didn't even consider not using them due to wind stress. Thanks for pointing that out Bounce.
Do you think with the existing mesh openings there will be enough air flow to avoid the "sail factor"?
Toolmaker, what are shelter systems grip clips and harbor freight clamps? How would they attach to rebar?
Mozy, wow, 30" long stakes are even longer than I thought. I'll go looking at Home Despot and see what I find. I'm thinking I'll need to get them custom cut. Damn, that money tree I planted better start blooming soon....

skibear · Post by **skibear** » Sun May 10, 2009 8:20 pm

Cheapest to buy rebar in standard 10ft lengths (industrial steel yard).
You can then cut the stakes to any lenght you want!

Tip: Pointing the ends a bit makes driving them in much easier.
hth

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sun May 10, 2009 8:31 pm

ourania wrote:These are great ideas. I think the boy scout trick will work without putting too much strain on existing grommets. I didn't even consider not using them due to wind stress. Thanks for pointing that out Bounce.
Do you think with the existing mesh openings there will be enough air flow to avoid the "sail factor"?
Toolmaker, what are shelter systems grip clips and harbor freight clamps? How would they attach to rebar?
Mozy, wow, 30" long stakes are even longer than I thought. I'll go looking at Home Despot and see what I find. I'm thinking I'll need to get them custom cut. Damn, that money tree I planted better start blooming soon....

Well if someone is using a chute on a homemade pvc dome or something like a conduit frame of some sort something like this can be used. I'm doing quick and dirty shade this year with pvc dome on rebar stake gaffer taped to other stakes with a chute ontop.

Dont have the grip clips to spare and due to low cash flow its dollar steel clamps this year for the surplus chute shade.

http://shelter-systems.com/gripclips/

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=39569

ourania · Post by **ourania** » Mon May 25, 2009 6:46 am

Those Grip Clips look really good Toolmaker. Thanks for the tip.
AntiM: Your lounging space looks really cozy with the carpets laid down and I'm sure they really help keep the dust down. What happens when it rains though? Ok, heading off the opportunity for snark, clearly it gets wet. But how do you keep the carpets from becoming completely caked with goopy playa? We just had our first planning session yesterday with a veteran burner who will be coming down with us and the question came up (she rv'd it last time and there was no rain). We all like the idea of getting some cheap used carpet under our shade structure to make it more comfortable but does it make sense to put a tarp down first to deal with potential water issues?
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Post by **AntiM** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:17 am

ourania wrote:Those Grip Clips look really good Toolmaker. Thanks for the tip.
AntiM: Your lounging space looks really cozy with the carpets laid down and I'm sure they really help keep the dust down. What happens when it rains though? Ok, heading off the opportunity for snark, clearly it gets wet. But how do you keep the carpets from becoming completely caked with goopy playa? We just had our first planning session yesterday with a veteran burner who will be coming down with us and the question came up (she rv'd it last time and there was no rain). We all like the idea of getting some cheap used carpet under our shade structure to make it more comfortable but does it make sense to put a tarp down first to deal with potential water issues?
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In eight years, we've only had to deal with a smattering of rain, so the wet carpet has never been an issue. The carpet gets heavy with dust, we're looking at ways to have comfy flooring which is lighter to transport. Some of our carpet does have billboard vinyl under it, but that's also what we wrap the carport legs in, and it stores best under the carpet. It has never been wet for us... jinx. Take your chances, mmmm?

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:34 am

Post by **Elderberry** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:50 am

FIGJAM wrote:bump

That was very nice of you.

Martiansky · Post by **Martiansky** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:56 am

AntiM wrote: In eight years, we've only had to deal with a smattering of rain, so the wet carpet has never been an issue. The carpet gets heavy with dust, we're looking at ways to have comfy flooring which is lighter to transport. Some of our carpet does have billboard vinyl under it, but that's also what we wrap the carport legs in, and it stores best under the carpet. It has never been wet for us... jinx. Take your chances, mmmm?

How about those folding rv patio mats?
They come in different sizes and fold up.

I used two silver tarps for the floor in my dome in 05 and they worked pretty well. The dome was on top so they didnt blow away.

MoonSplash · Post by **MoonSplash** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:21 pm

Jumping into thread.... in the past, we drove my car over the edge of a huge tarp and flipped it over the roof. After pounding in three-foot rebar halfway into the ground, we'd slip seven-foot tall PVC pipes over the rebar. The "loose" edge of the tarp would then be secured to the top of the PVC pipes (we had holes drilled into the top of the PVC pipes so we could tie the tarp to the top of the PVC pipes). We also added guylines to each PVC pipe.

Is duct-taping the rebar to the PVC pipe better than just slipping it over the rebar?

This set-up has worked out okay in the past, though the relentless tarp flapping drives me insane sometimes. I think next time I'm going to use thicker PVC pipes. I forget what size we have now, only that they bend in the wind, which means constant readjusting of the guylines.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:32 pm

Trade the pvc for 1"emt and you can stretch everything tighter for less flapping.

MoonSplash · Post by **MoonSplash** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:46 pm

Would you still duct tape the EMT to the rebar or slip it over the rebar?

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:52 pm

If the tarp is attached to the emt, I would tape it to the rebar.

I slide mine over the rebar cause if the tarp takes off, it cant take any metal with it.

My tarp is not connected to the cross pieces.

No guy lines to trip over.

Martiansky · Post by **Martiansky** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:04 pm

Figjam, are there bungees at the edge of your tarp?
I like that setup. I might try that for my camper, it doesnt have a awning.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:18 pm

Thast was a test.

What I did on the playa was basicly the same.

I ran rope from support to support with a truckers knot inbetween so that I could sinch the rope almost ridged then caribinered the edges of the tarp to the rope to reduce flapping.

Once the edge of the tarp was staked to the ground, I inched the truck forward till it tightened like a trampoline.

The other uprights are sleeved through 6" long pieces of pipe I welded to the frame of the trailer.

My shade was 12x40. PM sent.

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:30 pm

Bob wrote:Circus tent stakes *are* #18 rebar.

Try asking for that at Homo Depot.

You must be working with smaller tents. The show I used to work with had the 2 largest touring tents in the world. Our stakes were more like an axle rod cut in half with a point ground on one end. The latest set was custom made, 1/2" steel wall, hollow on the inside to reduce the weight.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:59 pm

The CO wrote:
Bob wrote:Circus tent stakes *are* #18 rebar.

Try asking for that at Homo Depot.
You must be working with smaller tents. The show I used to work with had the 2 largest touring tents in the world. Our stakes were more like an axle rod cut in half with a point ground on one end. The latest set was custom made, 1/2" steel wall, hollow on the inside to reduce the weight.

JPEGs?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:19 pm

Let's all go to the CO's custom shop and order that special rebar!

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:06 am

Heres a few things I learned about grommets.

Use the biggest ones you can find.

You want to be able to thread a rope through them.

I got the smaller ones and had to put caribiners on just to tie the rope to.

Woven shade clothe is tough, but when you add a grommet, you have to make a hole, and this is what happened to me.

This is the shade for my shop and is up most of the time.

We get big winds and this happens. BAD

This works better as the gorilla tape protects the edges of the hole.

If you want to put a 2" hem around your shade clothe, it would work even better.

In my oppinion this works BEST!

Golf ball wrapped in the corner with a slip knot over it.

With this setup, I only had to put one in each corner, and could stretch the hell out of it without any fabric failure!

It has never failed and no hemming.

The ragged part you can see is from failed grommet experiments.

Folding the clothe before puting the grommet on did'nt improve things much.

GOLF BALLS RULE! (ymmv)

Class dismissed.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:43 am

Wine corks might be kinder on your skull.