Conduit Calamity!

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:04 pm

I just went browsing at my local Monster Box Home Store, and left my lower jaw on the floor of the electrical aisle.....ALMOST SEVEN BUCKS for a stick of 3/4" EMT????? Makes me damn glad I built my domes in years past, when it was $2.20 or less. Yow. 1/2" was $3.60! What are you poor Big City Types paying, or NOT paying, for your dome parts?

Icepack · Post by **Icepack** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:41 pm

No shit, huh? We priced the 3/4" EMT a month ago and it was about $3 at the cheapest hardware store, and around $6-$7 at the Big Box monster store. We just went back to make our purchase and the local store had raised their price to match the Big Box price. We are trying to get 40 pieces of this stuff. It's going to cost us a fortune!

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:55 pm

How much does a stick of the stuff weigh? I spotted a bunch of conduit at a metal recycler yesterday (Alco in San Leandro) along with the rest of the 60 cents per pound steel. Not a lot of 3/4", but there was a little.

Is that cheaper than the current hardware store prices? Recyclers might be an option for some.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:01 am

It's about the ONLY alternative, from what I've found.....BTW, if it's mostly 1/2" then don't plan on making anything too big. (I regret not using 3/4" on my 6' sphere!)
Just guessing, but a stick of 3/4" might weigh 3 pounds or so. Still less than new, and even about half of what it USED to cost new.......
If you're picky like me, avoid the dull grey conduit with the blue one-inch rule painted on it (to help measuring and cutting) and go for the "sparkly" stuff with the more textural surface- It seems to be of better quality overall, and a tad thicker.

Angel Ben · Post by **Angel Ben** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:55 am

Dangit, I finally decided this would be the year to do it, but now I'm not sure I can afford it. I can either spend $250 on an 8' 2V mini-dome, or $425 on a 10' 3/8 3V.

If I wanted to go really cheap, could I use 1/2" on the 8' 2V? Seems like 5' lengths of 1/2" would really be pushing my luck.

Hmmm ... I'm noticing that I should be able to build an 8' 3/8 3V with less than 50 poles. That would only be about $150 if I could do it with 1/2", and I'm wondering if the max strut length of about 3.3' would allow it to be stable? Of course, I'd have to work a door into it somehow, which could present problems.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:05 pm

Let's see if I remember this right..... A 2V dome has 65 struts, and if you do the two-struts-from-a-stick thing that gives you all but 5 of the struts that you need, then the maximum number of sticks to buy is 35. Times seven bucks. $245.00. (Back in the day, I spent UNDER A HUNDRED.) Add a hundred for hardware, zipstrips, clips, clamps, tarps and groundcloth. Once built, you'll be able to use it over and over, MAYBE trading out a bent strut now and again. Mine have been a winter workshop, tractor barn and overflow storage for years without even rusting! (oh yeah-buy some Krylon Gray Primer and AT LEAST two colors of paint, so you can colorcode. Saves LOTS of time AND adds life to your struts!)
Now, I'm a sculptor and already had all of the tools- I even have an anvil for squishing the conduit ends, which I prefer to using a vise. You may need to shell out for a 3 lb. hammer and a chunk'o'metal OR vise, crescent wrench and socket driver for bolts, and a drillpress or power drill and titanium bit for making holes. (I use a CORDED drill, since cordless lose power when you demand lots of torque like when drilling metal. I drill a 1/8" pilot hole and then open it up to 1/2" with a stepped bit. They're nice to have for this, but cost 20-30 bucks for a good one and demand strong wrists if you're doing it by hand!)
I was all lit up about making my first dome, and from the moment I got home with the conduit to the moment I was swinging from the finished product was UNDER FIVE HOURS. Expect blisters if you want that kind of results!

Smudge · Post by **Smudge** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:57 pm

Wow! I'm glad I bought my 70 pieces of conduit last spring for the regular $2 and change per ten foot chunk. Could it be some sort of shortage related thing due to the gulf war? Hey, its just a wild idea but it does sound strange to me that the price would jump 50% in a couple months from where it's sat for years. Have you checked online places such as mcmasters?

buddadave · Post by **buddadave** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:57 pm

Last year I built a 30 foot dia dome for DOTA. It was made out of 1.500 dia EMT. Cost less then a year ago $7.05 each. Today's cost $23.75 each.

Working as a machinist for 25 years. I've watched the rise and fall of steel. The reason for the US steel shortage is not the war. It has to do with China.

China is in the middle of building a great dam, a huge mall and building a stadium for the olympics they will host in the future.

WE the U.S. shut out steel mills down because it was cheaper to buy offshore. But now with China sucking up the world steel market. We can't build our domes. That sucks.

We're (DOTA) is now building an aluminum four V dome for BRC. Aluminum has never been cost efective to build a dome. But it is now. Check your local metal dealer and get a qoute.

We're useing 6063 T5 grade. It should be a great looking dome, with good strenght.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:58 am

http://www.aero.org/publications/crossl ... 01/05.html

dman · Post by **dman** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:52 am

$0.60 per lb. is a heck of a deal, IMHO.

3/4" EMT varies a bit, but generally figure 0.45 - 0.5 lbs/ft.

LostMachine · Post by **LostMachine** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:21 pm

$0.60 per lb. is a heck of a deal, IMHO

Crazy!! I had no idea it had gone up that much. Last year at Reno Salvage I was paying $0.12 per lb. for the unsorted stuff and $0.20 per lb for the sorted out pile.

I got lucky this year, a bunch of angle iron was getting tossed where I work. I got as much as I could but they were throwing it away so fast. Luckily I got enough for my non traditional geodesic dome.

I wanted to build the theme into the structure.

I just hope I can finish in time.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:38 pm

wow! That is one awesome dome! How big is the full-scale deal going to be? Must see this one!

LostMachine · Post by **LostMachine** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:50 pm

Tiahaar wrote::shock: wow! That is one awesome dome! How big is the full-scale deal going to be? Must see this one!

It will be 28' 6"

I scaled the dome size to my biggest piece of angle I had.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:43 am

Daaaaaang! Looks like one heavy ball o' steel! Fill us in on thejoints, construction and such- Enquiring minds want to know!

dman · Post by **dman** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:26 am

Way cool, can't wait to see the real thing!

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:52 am

LostMachine wrote:
$0.60 per lb. is a heck of a deal, IMHO
Crazy!! I had no idea it had gone up that much. Last year at Reno Salvage I was paying $0.12 per lb. for the unsorted stuff and $0.20 per lb for the sorted out pile.

I got lucky this year, a bunch of angle iron was getting tossed where I work. I got as much as I could but they were throwing it away so fast. Luckily I got enough for my non traditional geodesic dome.

I wanted to build the theme into the structure.

I just hope I can finish in time.

/\
Let us know where your camp is.
I for one want to see this thing.

LostMachine · Post by **LostMachine** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:03 pm

Daaaaaang! Looks like one heavy ball o' steel! Fill us in on thejoints, construction and such- Enquiring minds want to know!

the Frame will weigh 1060lbs and then have 100lbs of sheets covering it.

each intersection will be bolted with s M10 x 80mm stainless Cap bolt (free from trash pile, used once)

1.25" angle iron is what the struts are made out of, one side on each piece was cut back 6" then drilled and bent. I thought about Hubs but there wasn't enough time. Right now all the struts are cut, there is still a lot of grinding drilling and bending to do. Plus I need to make a dual boom tower crane that should take a few days.

Let us know where your camp is.
I for one want to see this thing.

Once we have an idea I'll post in a new topic. I want to meet as many Dome ppl as I can while I'm there. I have an unholy love with spherical objects. I need to find my people ; )

Angel Ben · Post by **Angel Ben** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:44 am

LostMachine wrote: It will be 28' 6"

I scaled the dome size to my biggest piece of angle I had.

Very nice looking design! I'm curious though, at that size, with those narrow triangles, it doesn't look too easy to get in & out of. Are you adding a door, or is this meant less for shelter and more for art's sake (and math, yay math!)?

LostMachine · Post by **LostMachine** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:09 pm

Are you adding a door, or is this meant less for shelter and more for art's sake (and math, yay math!)?

I was having trouble deciding on where and how to put a door. I want to wait until we put it together then see where best to frame a door.

This weekend we'll put it up for the first time. I'm a little bit nervous. On Saturday I'll know it all my Cord factors, Strut lengths, Arc angles, axial angles and other numbers work out. The model was easy but the real thing is big.

Yap there was a lot of math, and my favorite calculator happens to be AutoCad

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:02 am

Good luck on your inaugural setup! Several of us are anxious to know how it goes! Doorwise, it looks like you're so well covered in the strut department that you could open a whole damn pentagon up!

gatonegro3 · Post by **gatonegro3** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:14 pm

How do I squish my conduit ends?
My budget for that is $100 and have no arbor press at sight.

Any ideas will be hugely appreciated.

gatonegro

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:22 pm

Bigger hammer, bigger anvil.

Or leave them on the UPRR tracks.

gatonegro3 · Post by **gatonegro3** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:15 pm

I was hoping more for a post like: "Gatonegro, I have a press and you are welcome to use it! come over, I'm in San Francisco"

Or something like: "my friend Sooroobee has an arbor press and he charges 25 cents a hit"

or maybe "you can buy the right press for less than $100"

oh well.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:16 am

Blatant commercial plug:
Harbor Freight Tools 1 Ton Arbor Press: $40.00 USD
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... umber=3552
Grizzly 3 Ton Arbor Press: $100 USD = $58.00 USD shipping
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cf ... mber=G4020

I have both the Harbor Freight 1 ton and the Grizzly 3 ton but I'm based in Kansas City. If I was closer I'd help you out; smashing conduit ends without a press is a real pain in the ass. The 1 ton press with a small cheater bar for the handle worked just fine for me. But if you can find a larger one like the 3 ton you can press almost anything and fast.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:11 am

Hey Phaestus, the ancient Romans used bigger hammers repeatedly on their conduits, if you catch my meaning.

gatonegro3 · Post by **gatonegro3** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:36 am

thanks, Tancorix.

A wonderful burner offer their press to help me out.

you guys should come to SPOROSITE to get painted in any color your fancy.

gatonegro

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:04 am

I'm with Bob- Domesmithing is quite satisfying, really. Those arborsquishers crap out on you, unless you lay out Big Ching for 'em. After you've anvilsmacked all the ends for a 2V dome, you'll think you could flip cars over. RRRRRRRaaaaRRRGH! Wear hearing protection.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:48 pm

There're also hydraulic presses from similar sources -- most use a standard bottle jack and a steel frame, which could also be jury-rigged w/access to a welding shop.

Burp! · Post by **Burp!** » Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:31 pm

We purchased a hydrolic press for about $100 off ebay, and then after using the press for the poles turned around and resold it back for more $'s.

NF

Conduit Calamity!

Especially with the grotesque price of steel, will you be building a dome for BRC?

Conduit Calamity!

Giant Angle-Iron Dome o' The Universe

squish ends