Theme Camp Liability and Insurance

addison4 · Post by **addison4** » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:55 pm

I was just wondering:

1) What liability Theme Camps have when burners get hurt?

and

2) Who do the existing camps use for insurance?

These seem like very anti-BM ideas, but the liability is real.

Thanks.

addison4 · Post by **addison4** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:47 am

Upon more review I think much liability could be resolved if the Theme Camp was registered by a limited liability corporation.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:09 am

I asked the same question last year. On the back of the ticket, BMorg makes it pretty clear that folks enter at their own risk sort of thing. Many surmise that it applies to the organization rather than individual camps and art.

If you have issues with it, get it. I concluded the risks are mitigated by mutual consent when it comes to activities and I just make damn sure appliances and furniture are intact and operational. Cover your ass in whatever way you feel comfortable,,,, but I think you will find the overall opinion is, the back of the ticket may not be CYA,,,, but it is a damn good first defense.

I make sure all guy lines are well flagged, stakes are padded and painted pink, orange or red. Keep things in order and don't leave stuff laying around for no reason. Make sure everyone understands how to use and how not to use your stuff and make sure you have a witness to those discussions.

Always ask before touching someone,,, or at least sense the invite for hugs,,,, or invite one without being pushy. Never assume anything! Works for me,,,, but YMMV

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:15 am

Worrying about whether certain ideas are "non bm" is a total waste of time.

Survival? For or Against Burningman?

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:28 pm

when theme camps start incorporating as LLCs and buying liability insurance is the day I go find something else. This is one aspect of America that makes me want to puke!

AKDMAN · Post by **AKDMAN** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:56 pm

Teo del fuego is wrong, your best bet is to incorporate yourself into a LLC to get covered under their umbrella insurance policy, then take out liability for your corporation to further protect yourself and provide the possibility of a payout in the case that you yourself are injured on the job. Also I do believe then that the proper warning signs must be put in place on location and that full handicap access is provided as well as handicap accessible bathrooms. Then you should be good to go, as long as you have the appropriate state and county licenses and paperwork approved. I'm eager to see your camp at burningman, what are you selling?

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:11 am

AKDMAN

I so hope you are employing a very subtle form of sarcasm. And yes, I'm a lawyer who, nevertheless, despises the spineless "sue everyone" mentality and the paranoid over reaction to it.

Your best insurance policy is common sense and moderation.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:17 am

If you want legal advice, talk to a lawyer.

AKDMAN · Post by **AKDMAN** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:54 am

So I just paid my liability premiums for this year and my insurance company was not pleased with me when I said I wanted to add free coffee, a sex swing, and a giant pile of bikes to my buissness, but I stood by my commitment to offer such things to the burningman, so as a result everyones paypal account will be charged automatically if your government issued ID comes within range of my scanner, and we're right next to that bar that IDs everyone, so come enjoy our free gifts, dont forget your ID or else we won't know who to charge

moonrise · Post by **moonrise** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:33 am

AKDMAN wrote:So I just paid my liability premiums for this year and my insurance company was not pleased with me when I said I wanted to add free coffee, a sex swing, and a giant pile of bikes to my buissness, but I stood by my commitment to offer such things to the burningman, so as a result everyones paypal account will be charged automatically if your government issued ID comes within range of my scanner, and we're right next to that bar that IDs everyone, so come enjoy our free gifts, dont forget your ID or else we won't know who to charge

Alaksa is a tough place (unless you live in the easy part, Juno, lmao)

Anyhow AKDMAN, yea, we hope the jokes about COMMERCE are just jokes, but to be honest, I'd rather stare at a blank wall than see even a hint of it on eplaya, just sayin'.... there are endless other kewl topics to discuss. ya know?
ps I'm not referring to the insurance questions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's your camp about? What kinna art do you get into at BM? Mischief?

Post by **Elderberry** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:36 am

moonrise wrote:
AKDMAN wrote:So I just paid my liability premiums for this year and my insurance company was not pleased with me when I said I wanted to add free coffee, a sex swing, and a giant pile of bikes to my buissness, but I stood by my commitment to offer such things to the burningman, so as a result everyones paypal account will be charged automatically if your government issued ID comes within range of my scanner, and we're right next to that bar that IDs everyone, so come enjoy our free gifts, dont forget your ID or else we won't know who to charge
Alaksa is a tough place (unless you live in the easy part, Juno, lmao)

Anyhow AKDMAN, yea, we hope the jokes about COMMERCE are just jokes, but to be honest, I'd rather stare at a blank wall than see even a hint of it on eplaya, just sayin'.... there are endless other kewl topics to discuss. ya know?
ps I'm not referring to the insurance questions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's your camp about? What kinna art do you get into at BM? Mischief?

This guy is either a nut case or a sock or both.

zorro sings · Post by **zorro sings** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:39 pm

AKDMAN and Comrade OED are ones who see the nonsense/inherent danger of the 1776 Camp and their concerns..

Their ideas of what a theme camp needs to do to align themselves properly to outside norms is disturbing.Insurance?LLC?On the camp web site a significant milestone was noted when freaking business cards were printed.

Good luck with it all,we wish no harm,but camps with such rigidity and mind set rarely do well at The Project.

addison4 · Post by **addison4** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:11 pm

People respond to leadership and structure. It's required to coordinate anything of significant social size.

AKDMAN · Post by **AKDMAN** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:28 pm

I'm just joking around, my winter is too long, and any camp is a success if your there doin it

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:26 pm

zorro sings wrote:AKDMAN and Comrade OED are ones who see the nonsense/inherent danger of the 1776 Camp and their concerns..

Their ideas of what a theme camp needs to do to align themselves properly to outside norms is disturbing.Insurance?LLC?On the camp web site a significant milestone was noted when freaking business cards were printed.

Good luck with it all,we wish no harm,but camps with such rigidity and mind set rarely do well at The Project.

Why in the hell are you throwing me under this bus, Zorro Omar?

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:43 pm

Cause your aim was too high?

zorro sings · Post by **zorro sings** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:54 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:when theme camps start incorporating as LLCs and buying liability insurance is the day I go find something else!

Very Sorry Comrade,Not sure how this happened but grevious error made.I thought Teos thoughts were somehow yours.Comrades TC pic and TEOs Eplya pic somewhat similar is our only possible out in this unfortunate matter.In any case I agree with Teo and apologize again to our esteemed comrade..

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Ahhh...yes, I too can see the resemblance now that you mention it.

POWERCHAIR · Post by **POWERCHAIR** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:36 pm

This cost of doing a LLC and incorporating the Black Rock City Department of Mobility into a LLC to get it covered under a umbrella insurance policy is money i don't have!
That and now the cost of being a full ADA compliant handicap access camp and providing handicap accessible shower, cooking equipment, bathrooms, etc.
That plus all the Mobility equipment, batters gas & storage!
Hell this camp cost me 5k a year even with camp dues now.
And i want to do a big art car so we can do more deep playa art & bar tourers.
Shit now were going to need 20k this year to up grad the camp all legal so i don't get sud by some drunken toe stuber,

Shit some one send me a big check so we do this camp better and all legal like.

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:37 pm

Don't forget about the building permits for any structures, and preserving any trees that are on your campsite. Also a certified engineer's stamped plans attesting to the structure's ability to withstand a 9.0 earthquake, a tsumani, flood, or windstorm such as a typhoon or tornado. Make sure, as a public facility that all doors and wall have a minimum 1 hour fire rating, and a 6" fire main and hydrants within 50 feet. You will also need occupancy permits for these structures. All nuclear power plants must be registered, radiation signs posted, redundant cooling systems, along with a mass exodus plan.

motskyroonmatick · Post by **motskyroonmatick** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:17 pm

What about just covering your own ass with a one million dollar general liability policy? I have heard they are reasonably priced.

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:37 pm

We purchased event insurance for Ein Hammer last year and it was expensive, with an intensive application process. At least it never fell down and "nailed" anybody-- yuk yuk.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:11 am

Making everyone sign a waiver is really easy, as long as you make sure they use thier real name;)

oscillator · Post by **oscillator** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:20 am

EspressoDude wrote:Don't forget about the building permits for any structures, and preserving any trees that are on your campsite. Also a certified engineer's stamped plans attesting to the structure's ability to withstand a 9.0 earthquake, a tsumani, flood, or windstorm such as a typhoon or tornado. Make sure, as a public facility that all doors and wall have a minimum 1 hour fire rating, and a 6" fire main and hydrants within 50 feet. You will also need occupancy permits for these structures. All nuclear power plants must be registered, radiation signs posted, redundant cooling systems, along with a mass exodus plan.

Also, the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) that is , under United States environmental law, a document required by the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) for certain actions "significantly affecting the quality of the human environment".

But we all test positive for alkaline dust (and fire), so it shouldn't be a problem, right?

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:14 am

Mister Jellyfish Mister wrote:We purchased event insurance for Ein Hammer last year and it was expensive, with an intensive application process. At least it never fell down and "nailed" anybody-- yuk yuk.

expensive? as in how much? thousands? tens of thousands?

licensed engineering review?

Parasitoid · Post by **Parasitoid** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:19 am

I am not going to sign any waivers or sue anyone. Leave me alone.

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:29 pm

My insurance is a shovel.

No body, no problem.

tamarakay · Post by **tamarakay** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:09 pm

oh i don't know. this seems like a reasonable question. especially after reading about the young lady who fell off the mutant vehicle and died. short story, her family sued and everyone in the associated camp had to hire lawyers.

yes i hate the thought of it, but if i had to lawyer up etc. i'd have to get an equity loan and another job.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:20 pm

Parasitoid wrote:I am not going to sign any waivers or sue anyone. Leave me alone.

Unfortunately, you cannot guarantee what your heirs will do.

And with that name, some people might not believe you.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:57 pm

I have a large supply of BUBBLE WRAP. We have determined the safest thing to do is wrap every person entering our camp in Bubble Wrap,,,, with duct tape. That way we can prove we provided protective wear and cannot be held responsible for the stupidity of others.

But then again,,,, bubble wrap just begs for throwing darts at each other,,,,, hmmmmmm another game of pain??????