BURN EFFIGY OF REPUBLICAN CONVENTION AT BRC

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:58 pm

Please note... not one round (ammunition) has been fired in anger due to our disagreements here... in a small way, this is proof our democratic system works....

hee hee hee, ho ho ho, ha ha ha....

duck you suckers, before somebody draws a bead on your head.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:30 pm

Define "work(s)".

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:34 pm

Bob wrote:

Define "work(s)".

Jeffersonian Democracy...? Leave the people pretty much alone and let them work it out for themselves? No sniveling and whining to 'Big Brother' to "Make them stop, Daddy!"? Responsiblity for what you write and say?

Naw...

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:38 am

samtzu wrote:Responsiblity for what you write and say?

Or whom you wish to set on fire, as the case may be.

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:41 am

Bob wrote:

samtzu wrote:

Responsiblity for what you write and say?
Or whom you wish to set on fire, as the case may be.

Indeed... The actual burning of a symbol (i.e. a paper mache elephant) is probably less 'karmically intrusive' than setting fire to a Republican. At least I think so...

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:04 am

How true.

Seriously, though, when did we get so stuck on party identifiications?
There are some Republicans I agree with.
There are many Democrats i think are wankers.

But then again, maybe i only say this because i'm hardcore independent who hates both parties and thinks they are full of crap.

I'd rather just burn the freakin' flag. It used to at least ideologically stand for such amazing things... but really it's not a symbol of any of that any more.

Well, nuts, now someone's gonna call me an ACLU-joining flag-burning hippie liberal.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:07 am

whoa dude...

"It used to at least ideologically stand for such amazing things... but really it's not a symbol of any of that any more."

hey, don't speak for me...

burn the USA flag in my presence... could get your ass kicked, and/or at the very least... ignored and "nouned."

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:32 am

well... symbols are just the difining qualities of a concept (as the FUCK! page clearly shows), and the burning of a symbol is, in itself, a symbolic act.

As a Vietnam Vet, I have no love for the flag. The symbol of the flag, draped over the coffins of friends of mine by the very government that sent them to their unjust deaths, has soured me on that symbol. I don't pledge alligence, and I don't sing the national anthem. Those symbols killed my friends.

But... I think that burning the flag is a little silly, which leads me to my next thought:"Okay, asshole. If burning the flag is silly... what would burning a paper mache elephant be? What the hell is that all about?" And I realized (after a short argument with myself) that burning a paper-mache elephant is silly!!

But... then again... silliness seems to run rampant at Burning Man. I dunno'. I'll have to think about it.

Maybe just a small elephant... uh... pocket sized, maybe... in a hibachi... at camp... alone... eh?

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:55 am

some ceremonies may be best enjoyed in solitude...

after the end of my 20 years of service, i spent a lot of time on the playa, alone... and i too burnt some items of significance... alone...

somethings are better not shared with others...

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:06 am

Joel... congrats on the twenty years... I barely made three... but times were different.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:27 am

samtzu wrote:Joel... congrats on the twenty years... I barely made three... but times were different.

3 beats 0...

please refer to my previous posts regarding national service requirements.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:54 am

Do post a link. Or at least a thread name. I'd like to read them.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:00 pm

I wonder about people who seem to think handing out brochures at Burning Man is equivalent to national service.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:21 pm

Simply Joel wrote:some ceremonies may be best enjoyed in solitude...

after the end of my 20 years of service, i spent a lot of time on the playa, alone... and i too burnt some items of significance... alone...

somethings are better not shared with others...

probably true.
but isn't it the right of the person doing the burning to choose?
Maybe what you would burn alone, another would want the support of some community members.

Consider, knowing that we are BOTH aware that you disagree with this act, that for many people i know flag burning is
1) the utmost expression of our right to dissent, which is supposed to be one of the strongest and most sacred rights we have
2) a community celebration - a social act of liberation and cleansing.

There are certainly very personal things that many of these same people would burn alone, but if i were to poll them, i'm guessing a flag isn't one of them.

What it boils down to is that you and they may see the flag entirely differently. It means something different. It stirs different emotions. So how do you know that flag burning qualifies as a 'personal only' action?

It is, quite simply, not your decision to make.

It's true, i have no respect for the military. I have a lot of respect for some of those people in it. Among them i number some of my closest friends, many relatives, and countless others. My uncle went to vietnam (with the USAF) and died there. While i can't condone the war, i am still proud of the fact that he put everything on the line for what he thought was right. There aren't too many of those people left. And yeah, had i been there and had the access to information that i have now, i would have fought opposite him, probably not with guns, but all the same...

those of us who choose these stances which may seem so contrary are often whose who know all too well the ravages of this country. I'm sure that in 20 years of service you've lost folks who you cared about. Likewise i have had my losses. They simply weren't in uniform.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:45 pm

Rian Jackson wrote:
Simply Joel wrote:some ceremonies may be best enjoyed in solitude...

after the end of my 20 years of service, i spent a lot of time on the playa, alone... and i too burnt some items of significance... alone...

somethings are better not shared with others...
probably true.
but isn't it the right of the person doing the burning to choose?
Maybe what you would burn alone, another would want the support of some community members.

Consider, knowing that we are BOTH aware that you disagree with this act, that for many people i know flag burning is
1) the utmost expression of our right to dissent, which is supposed to be one of the strongest and most sacred rights we have
2) a community celebration - a social act of liberation and cleansing.

There are certainly very personal things that many of these same people would burn alone, but if i were to poll them, i'm guessing a flag isn't one of them.

What it boils down to is that you and they may see the flag entirely differently. It means something different. It stirs different emotions. So how do you know that flag burning qualifies as a 'personal only' action?

It is, quite simply, not your decision to make.

It's true, i have no respect for the military. I have a lot of respect for some of those people in it. Among them i number some of my closest friends, many relatives, and countless others. My uncle went to vietnam (with the USAF) and died there. While i can't condone the war, i am still proud of the fact that he put everything on the line for what he thought was right. There aren't too many of those people left. And yeah, had i been there and had the access to information that i have now, i would have fought opposite him, probably not with guns, but all the same...

those of us who choose these stances which may seem so contrary are often whose who know all too well the ravages of this country. I'm sure that in 20 years of service you've lost folks who you cared about. Likewise i have had my losses. They simply weren't in uniform.

and

Rian Jackson wrote:Fuck! I'm sick again. Godfuckingdamnit. Just in time for the weekend.

Fuck! My brother is in jail again. For no goodfuckingreason.

Grumble grumble FUCK grumble.

At least i have 'fuck'

I could say something in response, but I think your quotes say enough.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:59 pm

Um, yeah.

Some days, Joel, you make no sense. I give ya full points for trying, and maybe a 'poor' for clarity.

Please play again.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:55 pm

Such deep, radically inclusive thoughts...

Nevada Leans for Bush

The President has opened up a comfortable lead in Nevada. For the sake of prudence, I will not move Nevada all the way to the strong designation until there is another poll which replicates a double digit margin. Nevada Leans for Bush.

A Demoblican win, fer sure.