Welcome President Obama

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:14 pm

I think the whole thing is bullshit. It seems kinda weird that when egypt had some demonstrations that it was time for power change and the same with Libya. While in Wisconson there are demonstratons but looked at differently. And talk about the authorities over using their power, look no further then Los Angeles just a couple years ago and the riot at a downtown park. News people where beat up by the police.

If i was asked to vote on if we should use force in Libya, I would not approve of this. I did not approve of our going into Iraq, but with Afganistan I thought the Talban should go, as the place that the 911 attack came from.

Ok, so thats a little bit of what I think. What does blow my mind is FUCKING FOX NEWS and the CRAP and LIES and DISTORTIONS.

To me the real issue is very rich people who are very greedy. They do not care about our kids educations, seems this whole economic melt down was caused by over paid teachers, and these rich people drive US apart.

If they can keep YOU and ME fighting all the time then we will never be able to focus on what the real problem is.

CSS, you are passonate in what you believe but can I ask you and Yggy a question.

What would you have Obama do? Some people bitch about everything he does, so my question is, what should he do?

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:41 pm

wedeliver wrote:To me the real issue is very rich people who are very greedy. They do not care about our kids educations, seems this whole economic melt down was caused by over paid teachers, and these rich people drive US apart.

Are younsaying that teachers are over paid? Or are you saying that the rich are using teachers as a scapegoat to achieve their objectives?

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:51 pm

I'm sure that we agree on most things. I do not have a working TV or radio. I can't comment on MSM. I certainly agree on the infighting. Why not, It's always worked.
The people who elected the pres reportedly spent $ 1 billion. I suspect that they allow him little leeway. He has appointed a cadre that some refer to as a "shadow GOV" His "Czars" are of questionable legality;
http://www.newswithviews.com/NWV-News/news240.htm
Possibly, he appointed them to accomplish some agenda without congressional control. I don't know.
I believe that it is reasonable to think that the REAL power lies in the financial power brokers, rather than the politicians,,, and by extension, the people. Several presidents over the years have complained that their hands were tied by the invisible "Shadow government"
JFK had plenty to say.

Roosevelt complained that he had very limited power to do anything that the REAL powers did not want to happen.
"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people."
I believe that the Pres arrived in DC and was briefed immediately as to just who was in power. There are complaints that he is out playing golf while the world burns. I doubt that golf is his choice.
Eisenhower was very clear in his warning to NOT let the war industry get too much power. So, while I think that the pres should get us out of the pointless wars, I don't think that he is able to. The wars are only pointless from MY point of view. I'm sure that they serve the interests of some group. This is also true of the bank bailouts. They don't serve the interests of the general public in the long run. The decision is not up to us or the pres. He may very well have the best of intentions. I may complain about his actions but, that doesn't mean that I believe that he takes them voluntarily.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:55 pm

I have to add something off-topic here. YES, the teachers are overpaid considering the dearth of income to the state. NO the teachers are not overpaid considering the enormous wealth held by GOV in investment accounts. Before the shit starts flying.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:13 pm

can't sit still wrote:I have to add something off-topic here. YES, the teachers are overpaid considering the dearth of income to the state. NO the teachers are not overpaid considering the enormous wealth held by GOV in investment accounts. Before the shit starts flying.

Could you please post your information about how much the teachers are overpaid. Maybe it isn't the teachers, maybe the governor is ovepaid and has an expensive health care system paid for by people taxes.

Wait, I see, the teachers are overpaid when the states budget and lack of income is considered. So, if the state was flush with money they would not be overpaid. I just don't understand

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:41 pm

Ca claims that it is broke because income has stalled. If you read page 74 here, it says that Ca has $ 130 billion in investments; http://www.calstrs.com/help/forms_publi ... r_2010.pdf
Devvy Kidd wrote about this stuff;
http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd432.htm
There is plenty of writing about all this hidden money;
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/mysterious_cafrs.php
There just doesn't seem to be ANY access to the funds to smooth out financial problems.
Walter Burien has been writing about this for several years; http://cafr1.com/

GOV apparently feels that WE do not deserve access to the investments that were paid for by OUR taxes. The big FAT porker of a GOV is going to put us on a diet for our own good. While it's true that we shouldn't spend all of our reserves, the money should be available to smooth out some kind of transition.
There may be far more than the $ 130 billion. I haven't had time or inclination to read it all. http://www.sco.ca.gov/Files-ARD/CAFR/cafr10web.pdf

Edit: at the risk of stating the obvious, there is always the possibility that all the CAFR money that is held in banks is no longer there.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:48 pm

ygmir wrote:I get a kick out of the "give and take" among the "partisans":

depending on who's in office, everything that happens is "ok" or, "not the same", as "they" did it.

it's just a different set of folks rationalizing it.

Each side takes turns, making the same complaints, the same arguments, the same accusations, and the same rationalizations. Just to defend "their guy".

United Snakes of America?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:46 pm

FIGJAM wrote:
ygmir wrote:I get a kick out of the "give and take" among the "partisans":

depending on who's in office, everything that happens is "ok" or, "not the same", as "they" did it.

it's just a different set of folks rationalizing it.

Each side takes turns, making the same complaints, the same arguments, the same accusations, and the same rationalizations. Just to defend "their guy".
United Snakes of America?

it seems to be turning that way........just a snake pit (politics), everyone slithering to get what they want.
good analogy FJ.

WD:

I don't think, I commented on Obama's actions.

WD wrote:CSS, you are passonate in what you believe but can I ask you and Yggy a question.

for my part in that question:
I'm not saying, nor did I say, Obama made a good or bad choice.
So, I'm not sure how we both get the same question.

I was commenting, on how both sides defend their guy, and attack the other, quite often, for the same thing.
I suppose, in this case, I would have expected a huge outcry, if "W" or McCain (shudder), were prez. and this happened.
But, really, (here on eplaya), those I would expect to hear screaming the loudest are mostly silent.

My comment was merely at the silence of those that scream when it's not "their guy" making the call.

But, if you want my opinion, I think it went pretty well. (so far)
I wish, though, Obama had gone there much sooner, before all the killing and such started. I think he waited to long.
I'm amazed he got the French to participate.

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:56 pm

Teachers are charged with educating our children, which are the future of our country; yet people complain they are being paid too much for doing one of the most important jobs there could ever be, Yet nobody seems to mind that athletes and movie stars are paid multimillions of dollars. Seems to me that our values in this country are backwards, assuming value is recognized by what a person is paid. I can easily see the value provided by teaching our children to be competative with the world in math and science. I can't see any value throwing a football or sinking a basket provides to the country. This would imply that people care more about being entertained than they do about the future of their children.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:03 pm

jkisha wrote:Teachers are charged with educating our children, which are the future of our country; yet people complain they are being paid too much for doing one of the most important jobs there could ever be, Yet nobody seems to mind that athletes and movie stars are paid multimillions of dollars. Seems to me that our values in this country are backwards, assuming value is recognized by what a person is paid. I can easily see the value provided by teaching our children to be competative with the world in math and science. I can't see any value throwing a football or sinking a basket provides to the country. This would imply that people care more about being entertained than they do about the future of their children.

I would be for paying teachers better, if, there was no tenure, and, pay was performance based.

There are great teachers out there, and, there are ticks who are just puttin' in their time.......those, should go.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:33 pm

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:Teachers are charged with educating our children, which are the future of our country; yet people complain they are being paid too much for doing one of the most important jobs there could ever be, Yet nobody seems to mind that athletes and movie stars are paid multimillions of dollars. Seems to me that our values in this country are backwards, assuming value is recognized by what a person is paid. I can easily see the value provided by teaching our children to be competative with the world in math and science. I can't see any value throwing a football or sinking a basket provides to the country. This would imply that people care more about being entertained than they do about the future of their children.

I would be for paying teachers better, if, there was no tenure, and, pay was performance based.

There are great teachers out there, and, there are ticks who are just puttin' in their time.......those, should go.

Please don;t be offended by how I speak, I mean no harm, I am limited in my communication tools!

I guess you know these "ticks" you speak of? I mean really, do you have first hand knowledge of a bad teacher or maybe just a teacher who you did not agree with, and maybe that was the point! Having raised 4 children I don't understand what you are talking about. It is very hard to "teach" a classroom of kids, much less adults. But to try and impart knowledge to children at a young age and have them sit to listen is not an easy chore

Ok, first lets talk about Tenure.. here is what you are against.

"Teacher tenure is effectively a permanent job contract for a college professor or, in some cases, a primary or secondary school teacher. Tenure is granted to individuals who have proven their teaching skills, conducted meaningful research, published papers, and helped their educational facilities by participating in committees or creating policies. In most cases, a teacher must work between two and seven years before becoming eligible to receive tenure. A professional with teacher tenure cannot lose his or her job without just cause, such as obvious incompetence or severe misconduct. Tenured teachers are granted the freedom to pursue research and interests of any sort, even if they are unpopular or not in line with the opinions of authorities.

At most universities and colleges, a teacher must demonstrate competence and achieve results both in and outside of the classroom for at least six years. He or she needs to excel as an instructor, teaching appropriate material and giving students every opportunity to succeed. In addition, a hopeful professor is usually required to write papers and conduct research in his or her specialty. A biology instructor seeking teacher tenure, for example, may be expected to spend significant amounts of time conducting experiments and independent research in the school's laboratories, publish scientific papers regarding important findings, and become an active participant in local and global scientific organizations"

Post by **Elderberry** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:55 pm

My company was a sponsor of an inner city high school new media department for several years. During tis time I had the opportunity to teach a few Internet related classes for which there were no qualified teachers, even though they had these courses listed in the curriculum.

There were some of these 'ticks' that Ygmir was referring to, and it was a bit disappointing that they couldn't be fired, however I believe tenure has a different meaning in a union than it does in a university. However, I can tell you from my limited experience that teaching is not an easy job, especially in an inner city school, and I can also tell you that these teachers are in the minority.

But Ygmir has this "yes, but" philosophy and can't fully agree with anything even slightly political because his cynicism always allows the exception to spoil the rule.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:59 pm

well, yes, I have had first hand experience with said "ticks".......and, I agree, there are not many.
But, there are those, with no interest in the job, except retirement.
they bust their butts to get "tenure", then, kick back............
I by no means, mean all, or even most, are that way.
But, it's almost impossible to fire them, once tenured.
I see no reason for tenure, if, the job pays well.
And, I think, in practice tenure is not the same as what's written.
Seems pretty automatic, if, a person is there for a set period of time.

I more believe, pay well, good bennies, and, people who love the work.
You'll not need "tenure".......you'll want them, and, they'll stay.

well, yes, but.....(*hahaha).........of course, I see it all as grey, JK. Especially in politics, there is no black and white.....just different shades and consistencies of brown........

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:40 pm

My understanding is that most of the education money goes to admin.

I don't think expence is in the teachers.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:52 pm

In the private school system, there are about 29 admin for every 100 teachers. In the Ca. school system, there are about 117 administrators for every 100 teachers. This is from memory but, you get the idea.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:35 am

can't sit still wrote:In the private school system, there are about 29 admin for every 100 teachers. In the Ca. school system, there are about 117 administrators for every 100 teachers. This is from memory but, you get the idea.

I get the idea that your memory is full of holes. Here is a website that gives you the employment of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

http://search.lausd.k12.ca.us/cgi-bin/f ... ingprofile

As can be seen at the bottom of the page under "Staffing" that there are less then a 10 -1 ration of teachers to Admin. 33529 students and a total of under 3000 employees. That includes the school janitors, up to principal and all the staff downtown. One of the largest school districts in the United States.

I have to ask why do you post things that are clearly wrong? What are you tring to influence with your incorrect postings. You say it's your memory but I think you are like Charles Manson and want to start some kind of riot. You seem very unhappy and afraid of everything. I feel for ya bro, can I do anything to help?

Here, next time you are driving from Van Nuys to Bend, stop by my place, stay the night, on me. We can chat! There is probably a lot that we can agree on..

Here is what has kept me up at night recently. I heard a TV show about the killing ob Bobby Kennedy, I was in Vietnam on vacation at the time, but what I heard was there is a tape recoding of the shots being fired and more shots are heard then could have been fired from the one gun. Also after all these years I still wonder how Oswald could have popped 3 rounds that quick dead on.

So from those things up to what is going on today, I think we have been manipulated and used. From the oil crises that have given windfall profits to those companies to the complete devaluing of private property, I wonder what forces are at work in the background.

You see, we both care about the shit that is going on. So, instead of making up facts, speak the truth and you will be free.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:51 am

The word is "meme". I remember when this word started creeping into conversations and I really didn't understand the full impact of it's meaning. Most people when stating "facts" are often times repeating "memes" which may or may not be true, but are assumed to be because of how firmly they have been adopted by society. Often this adoption can be maliciously implanted for political or corporate gain, and many times simply by well meaning parents passing on information to their children that was given to them by their parents. (wait 30minutes after eating to go swimming, for example.)

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:02 pm

wedeliver, your link didn't work for me. Your numbers seem strange too. I didn't make any mention of students. I found non-current numbers that didn't agree with yours. In 2004--2005, the LAUSD reports;
82,000 employees
746,610 students
85,000 special ed
47,300 teachers
These numbers don't agree with either your numbers OR my original numbers.
http://councilcommission.lacity.org/lau ... 082005.pdf

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:57 pm

I am sorry but I did not post the Los Angeles Unified School Distrit stats correctly

There were 680,167 students in the school district 2008-2009
There were 36422 Staff for all those students

CSS said, "In the private school system, there are about 29 admin for every 100 teachers. In the Ca. school system, there are about 117 administrators for every 100 teachers. This is from memory but, you get the idea."

Clearly not true.

Start here

http://notebook.lausd.net/portal/page?_ ... ema=PTL_EP

click on District and Local District Profiles

search "district wide"

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:31 pm

one might wonder if "117 admins to 100 teachers" was
tongue-in-cheek?

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:41 pm

Your numbers are still no good. They show staff and NOT employees. The file that I posted is very complete. Our numbers are contradictory and we're off-topic.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:51 pm

What? Now there's such a thing as "off topic"?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:56 pm

jkisha wrote:What? Now there's such a thing as "off topic"?

crap, don't even say "those words".......

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:25 pm

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:What? Now there's such a thing as "off topic"?
crap, don't even say "those words".......

shhhh.....mums the word.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:23 pm

can't sit still wrote:Your numbers are still no good. They show staff and NOT employees. The file that I posted is very complete. Our numbers are contradictory and we're off-topic.

First let me clarify and say that the numbers I found and posted are not "MY" numbers. I did not make them up or have anything to do with their creation. But I did search them out and post them. On the other hand, you posted some ridiculous "numbers" which are probably YOUR numbers since I can't find anything like that in any search I do. )117 admins to 100 teachers) was yggy right and your tongue was in your cheek and thats why you said that??

You live in Van Nuys, I gotta know, is Bob's Open. oh and what about the Original Hamburger Hamlet. (all black employees back in the day) I went to Van Nuys High School, No wait a minute, I did not attend, as a student Van Nuys High School, but I went there a lot.

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:53 pm

Let's be clear, in the wee hours of a couple night ago, France was spearheading this decision at the UN. I was watching, but yall were asleep! It was the French that went in first, and we followed suit, soon after, cause our shits better than the French or British. We would never have gone in, if the Arab League hadn't asked for it. Obama is much smarter than Bush, or any of his offspring combined. He bided his time, and waited for the international community to act. And if Lybia came as a surprise, you haven't been paying attention. The moment the no-fly-zone was approved, Benghazi was being threatened with "No Mercy". I hate seeing us start wars or conflicts, but in this case, we let them start it...and I'm glad they did! And, I hope President Obama knows, when its time to let the international community mop up.

can't sit still · Post by **can't sit still** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:49 pm

Well, this pretty well sums it up;
"Meanwhile, the White House is at times having difficulty simply making sense. The president talked about an "exit strategy" in which American forces would not exit at all. And administration officials are going out of their way to deny that the Libyan fighting, which involves a significant fleet of U.S. warships and U.S. warplanes, is a "war." Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes told reporters Wednesday that Libya wasn't a war, describing it instead as a "kinetic military action."

I'm a bit confused too. We're blowing the shit out of Libya and Tripoli so that we can protect Libyan freedom fighters. Since he calls "it" a "kinetic military action" , there's no harm done,,,, like in a war.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/ ... z1Hf6qg3sZ

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:10 pm

blah blah blah...We blow shit up! thats what amerikans do!

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:32 pm

TomServo wrote:blah blah blah...We blow shit up! thats what amerikans do!

Tom? Tom Servo?

the guy, who, at the drop of a hat will criticize a republican, for any military (or, really any at all) action?
Now, defender of air strikes and such, just because "his" guy is in office?

hhhhmmmm.......interesting.............

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:39 pm

ygmir wrote:
TomServo wrote:blah blah blah...We blow shit up! thats what amerikans do!
Tom? Tom Servo?

the guy, who, at the drop of a hat will criticize a republican, for any military (or, really any at all) action?
Now, defender of air strikes and such, just because "his" guy is in office?

hhhhmmmm.......interesting.............

Im not against military action...I am against fighting daddy's war though. We gave kaddaffie ( spelling doesnt seem that important anymore ) a chance....and for once, we had the blessings of the Arab league. AND, hopefully. the UN members will finally take the lead. The U.S. was reluctant to join this fight...and I don't blame us!